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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Where's the life and soul of this game?

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118 posts found
  Robsolf

Elite Member

Joined: 4/21/06
Posts: 3958

Let go of my ears, I know what I'm doing!

11/28/11 2:39:26 PM#81
Originally posted by dj525
Originally posted by Robsolf
 

If you don't group because you don't NEED to group, then that means you don't WANT to group.  Why should a game force you to do something you don't want to do?

You can use the same logic for any part of the game.  You don't NEED to do space combat, so you won't do space combat unless you WANT to do space combat.  Why should they force people to do that?

Then it's not a mmo. Whats the whole point of a mmo to play with others and there should be a need to group or whats the point of paying a sub when I can just buy a single player rpg.

That would be part of the game if you so choose to take part in space combat so be it, if you don't then you don't.

No.  that's NOT the whole point of an MMO.  An MMO should never have to force people to group with you in order to get people to group. 

I've been in far too many "MMO=forced grouping" threads already to hijack this one for the cause.  We clearly disagree.  I'm leaving it at that.

  dj525

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/29/11
Posts: 47

11/28/11 2:43:43 PM#82
Originally posted by Robsolf
Originally posted by dj525
Originally posted by Robsolf
 

If you don't group because you don't NEED to group, then that means you don't WANT to group.  Why should a game force you to do something you don't want to do?

You can use the same logic for any part of the game.  You don't NEED to do space combat, so you won't do space combat unless you WANT to do space combat.  Why should they force people to do that?

Then it's not a mmo. Whats the whole point of a mmo to play with others and there should be a need to group or whats the point of paying a sub when I can just buy a single player rpg.

That would be part of the game if you so choose to take part in space combat so be it, if you don't then you don't.

No.  that's NOT the whole point of an MMO.  An MMO should never have to force people to group with you in order to get people to group. 

I've been in far too many "MMO=forced grouping" threads already to hijack this one for the cause.  We clearly disagree.  I'm leaving it at that.

Sounds good but sorry I never said force anyways I said a need or feel that i should group to accomplish somthing really cool. Never did I say force so please don't put words in my mouth. If theres no real reason to group up and accomplish something then whats the point of being a mmo.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 14316

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

11/28/11 2:45:48 PM#83
Originally posted by dj525
Originally posted by Robsolf
Originally posted by dj525
Originally posted by Robsolf
 

If you don't group because you don't NEED to group, then that means you don't WANT to group.  Why should a game force you to do something you don't want to do?

You can use the same logic for any part of the game.  You don't NEED to do space combat, so you won't do space combat unless you WANT to do space combat.  Why should they force people to do that?

Then it's not a mmo. Whats the whole point of a mmo to play with others and there should be a need to group or whats the point of paying a sub when I can just buy a single player rpg.

That would be part of the game if you so choose to take part in space combat so be it, if you don't then you don't.

No.  that's NOT the whole point of an MMO.  An MMO should never have to force people to group with you in order to get people to group. 

I've been in far too many "MMO=forced grouping" threads already to hijack this one for the cause.  We clearly disagree.  I'm leaving it at that.

Sounds good but sorry I never said force anyways I said a need or feel that i should group to accomplish somthing really cool. Never did I say force so please don't put words in my mouth. If theres no real reason to group up and accomplish something then whats the point of being a mmo.

Again did you play the game, or are you running with heresay and assumptions? There are whole areas of worlds with elite world bosses and mobs that are designed to be tackled with a group.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9928

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

11/28/11 2:49:44 PM#84


Originally posted by Distopia


Originally posted by dj525


Originally posted by Robsolf



Originally posted by dj525



Originally posted by Robsolf



 

If you don't group because you don't NEED to group, then that means you don't WANT to group.  Why should a game force you to do something you don't want to do?
You can use the same logic for any part of the game.  You don't NEED to do space combat, so you won't do space combat unless you WANT to do space combat.  Why should they force people to do that?


Then it's not a mmo. Whats the whole point of a mmo to play with others and there should be a need to group or whats the point of paying a sub when I can just buy a single player rpg.
That would be part of the game if you so choose to take part in space combat so be it, if you don't then you don't.


No.  that's NOT the whole point of an MMO.  An MMO should never have to force people to group with you in order to get people to group. 
I've been in far too many "MMO=forced grouping" threads already to hijack this one for the cause.  We clearly disagree.  I'm leaving it at that.


Sounds good but sorry I never said force anyways I said a need or feel that i should group to accomplish somthing really cool. Never did I say force so please don't put words in my mouth. If theres no real reason to group up and accomplish something then whats the point of being a mmo.


Again did you play the game, or are you running with heresay and assumptions? There are whole areas of worlds with elite world bosses and mobs that are designed to be tackled with a group.



They were putting a group together for the world boss on Coruscant last night. At level 14, there is a world boss hanging around waiting for groups large enough to tackle it.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  dj525

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/29/11
Posts: 47

11/28/11 2:51:49 PM#85
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by dj525
Originally posted by Robsolf
Originally posted by dj525
Originally posted by Robsolf
 

If you don't group because you don't NEED to group, then that means you don't WANT to group.  Why should a game force you to do something you don't want to do?

You can use the same logic for any part of the game.  You don't NEED to do space combat, so you won't do space combat unless you WANT to do space combat.  Why should they force people to do that?

Then it's not a mmo. Whats the whole point of a mmo to play with others and there should be a need to group or whats the point of paying a sub when I can just buy a single player rpg.

That would be part of the game if you so choose to take part in space combat so be it, if you don't then you don't.

No.  that's NOT the whole point of an MMO.  An MMO should never have to force people to group with you in order to get people to group. 

I've been in far too many "MMO=forced grouping" threads already to hijack this one for the cause.  We clearly disagree.  I'm leaving it at that.

Sounds good but sorry I never said force anyways I said a need or feel that i should group to accomplish somthing really cool. Never did I say force so please don't put words in my mouth. If theres no real reason to group up and accomplish something then whats the point of being a mmo.

Again did you play the game, or are you running with heresay and assumptions? There are whole areas of worlds with elite world bosses and mobs that are designed to be tackled with a group.

I see you didn't read my post, yes I did but you can think i didn't and I also said at what lvl 50 can't wait to get past the single player part of the game.

  dj525

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/29/11
Posts: 47

11/28/11 2:53:23 PM#86

Anyways you guys have fun playing the greatest mmo never. I have better things to do.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9928

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

11/28/11 2:55:09 PM#87


Originally posted by Eir_S


Originally posted by lizardbones


Mobs exist so you can kill them. Why does it matter what they're doing when you're not killing them? If you're not doing something that's part of your story line or a mission, you won't even see them.

SWTOR: Immersion unleashed.....  
Honestly, I've been trying not to get involved regarding the little back and forths going on about how brilliant/disappointing this game is, but if what you said is how people actually feel, they kind of deserve a flat experience.  That whole sentence reaks of MMO fail.  Themeparks away!



I have no idea how most other people feel. I know what I think and that's it. It doesn't matter what the mobs you're supposed to kill are doing when you're not killing them. What they're doing while you're killing them is more important. All the NPCs you'll interact with on a regular basis or see in the background on a regular basis are more important. All the other stuff that was in the paragraphs you didn't quote.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Robsolf

Elite Member

Joined: 4/21/06
Posts: 3958

Let go of my ears, I know what I'm doing!

11/28/11 2:55:19 PM#88
Originally posted by dj525
 

Sounds good but sorry I never said force anyways I said a need or feel that i should group to accomplish somthing really cool. Never did I say force so please don't put words in my mouth. If theres no real reason to group up and accomplish something then whats the point of being a mmo.

There are lots of reasons to group, even in the starter area.  World bosses, Flashpoints, Boss Elites, with bonus XP, rare drops and rewards to go with them that are superior to what you get in solo areas.  So, if you can't be enticed by superior rewards, then you can only be forced.

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7649

Logic be damned!

11/28/11 2:57:30 PM#89

I actually found there to be a quite a lot of random NPC activity going on in towns and cities and such. Plenty of life and ambiance.

The Jedi temple on Tython especially, also Kaas city (Imperial Capital) on Dromand Kaas.

Many examples on Balmora, Ord Mantell, and Hutta of NPC's fighting each other etc.

Coruscant felt very alive and active, first metropolis in a MMO that really felt huge to me.

Between the Holocron's and clickable lore objects plenty of reason to explore.

I've already seen a bunch of open-world bosses, plenty of heroic group-only content even on the starter worlds...

and I've seen just a fraction of the game.

All indication point to the worlds getting even bigger, becoming even more open, and having more of a focus on party and large group activities in the open world as the game progresses.

OP is right though about the Class story's being leaps and bounds over the world quests in terms of content and story, but honestly who didn't expect that?

For all of their money and talent, Bioware/EA are still just mortal men/women and don't have unlimited funds.

If the game was 100% class story it wouldn't be much of a MMO?

Funny people complain about not enough class story now and too much MMO...

Now Playing: D3:RoS
Looking Towards: Destiny

  Eir_S

Elite Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4525

GW2 socialist.

11/28/11 3:00:37 PM#90
Originally posted by BadSpock

For all of their money and talent, Bioware/EA are still just mortal men/women and don't have unlimited funds.

I expect better!!!  I am consumer!!!

  Hatewall

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/04
Posts: 127

11/28/11 3:01:25 PM#91

I hope there is more that will be "turned on" when it goes live.

I played this weekend and Tabula Rasa immediately came to mind: It looks great but there is nothing here.

Nothing to click on, pick up, or interact with. No animals, bugs, fish. No plants to pick, minerals to collect. No ambient sounds. Nothing at all.

In fact, all there is is clicking on an npc with the symbol over it's head and then running to the symbol on the map. There must be more than this when it goes live.

Some of what is there is very poor. A lot of the textures are just plain bad. I don't care how big of a fan you are or how long you have been waiting. The texture work is very amateur. Again, I am assuming there must be a HUGE jump in quality when it goes live. This can't be the final.

This IS world of warcraft with SW skins. Sorry. I predict it will be very successful because of that.

 

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9928

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

11/28/11 3:03:08 PM#92


Originally posted by MindTrigger


Originally posted by Eir_S


Originally posted by lizardbones


Mobs exist so you can kill them. Why does it matter what they're doing when you're not killing them? If you're not doing something that's part of your story line or a mission, you won't even see them.

SWTOR: Immersion unleashed.....  
Honestly, I've been trying not to get involved regarding the little back and forths going on about how brilliant/disappointing this game is, but if what you said is how people actually feel, they kind of deserve a flat experience.  That whole sentence reaks of MMO fail.  Themeparks away!


That's the deal with this game right now.  You're hearing the lovers of it say "we didn't need that feature anyway, and 99% of gamers don't care about it".   So basically what they are saying is exactly what I said in the OP.  The game is a sterile mmo experience where VO quests were used to spice up otherwise boring (in my opinion) gameplay and world.  The world, the atmosphere, the details that immerse you deeply into the story, is non-existant.    Now I know some people will argue that last sentence, and all I can say to that is good on you, if you are cool with the way this game looks and feels.  For me, compared to much, much older games, it is dead and lifeless.  Hell, even Rift feels more alive than this one to me and I find Rift to be general boring as well.
What can one expect when the Bioware devs basically came out a few months back and started using language like "WoW is a touchstone" to describe their $120m brand new Star Wars game. 



Should have read the rest of my post. There is plenty of stuff in the atmosphere, outside of what mobs you're supposed to kill are doing when you're not killing them or even seeing them.

Even considering just the mobs you're supposed to kill; near the areas where you would actually just be sitting there looking at mobs*, they are doing stuff. Granted, it's usually a fire fight between the mobs you're supposed to kill and the people you're supposed to help, but they aren't just standing there. If you do kill them, reinforcements arrive; they don't just spawn out of the aether.

* This would be near quest givers or vendors...places where you'd actually hang out.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 14316

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

11/28/11 3:03:45 PM#93
Originally posted by Hatewall

Nothing to click on, pick up, or interact with. No animals, bugs, fish. No plants to pick, minerals to collect. No ambient sounds. Nothing at all.

Wha?!?!

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7649

Logic be damned!

11/28/11 3:04:24 PM#94
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by BadSpock

For all of their money and talent, Bioware/EA are still just mortal men/women and don't have unlimited funds.

I expect better!!!  I am consumer!!!

While that is your right and priveledge, as a consumer you must know that very few things ever live up to our expectations.

There exists nothing made by man that is without flaw because man himself is not without flaw.

 

Now Playing: D3:RoS
Looking Towards: Destiny

  Eir_S

Elite Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4525

GW2 socialist.

11/28/11 3:05:26 PM#95

My one hope is that whether or not TOR reshapes the MMO economy/industry/etc., Bioware learns enough about making them (the game and its "life and soul" should be improved with patches within months I expect) to create something more than just someone else's ideas, and do something like a Mass Effect MMO.  I'd actually be more interested in it than a SW themed game since it's something I haven't seen my entire life already.

Unfortunately, everyone couldn't play as Commander Shepard..

  8BitAvatar

Novice Member

Joined: 10/17/11
Posts: 203

11/28/11 3:06:21 PM#96
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by BadSpock

For all of their money and talent, Bioware/EA are still just mortal men/women and don't have unlimited funds.

I expect better!!!  I am consumer!!!

While that is your right and priveledge, as a consumer you must know that very few things ever live up to our expectations.

There exists nothing made by man that is without flaw because man himself is not without flaw.

 

Sliced bread? ;)

  Hatewall

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/04
Posts: 127

11/28/11 3:06:42 PM#97

I only did beta this weekend and was mostly in starter areas. Part of what I am saying is that I assume there is much more than what I saw in the final game. I really hope so.

I am going to buy it and play.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9928

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

11/28/11 3:09:04 PM#98


Originally posted by Hatewall
I only did beta this weekend and was mostly in starter areas. Part of what I am saying is that I assume there is much more than what I saw in the final game. I really hope so.



The starter areas are underwhelming. They are interesting and probably better than WoW...but I wouldn't go so far as to say they are great. In fact, I think the starter areas need work to be less confusing and more of an introduction to SW:ToR and not an introduction to mmos in general. I'm not sure how I would change it...I just know something should be done there.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 14316

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

11/28/11 3:12:36 PM#99
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Hatewall

Nothing to click on, pick up, or interact with. No animals, bugs, fish. No plants to pick, minerals to collect. No ambient sounds. Nothing at all.

Wha?!?!

Must have had the power-gamer "must level faster!" tunnel vision and didn't see the forest for the trees, so to speak.

Plenty of ambience and everything Hatewall mentioned (except the fish) is in there.

Yeah, some things are done differently like nodes which could explain missing them, but you'd think the pop up you see saying what skill is needed to extract the goods would hint that it's a resource/slicing etc... node.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason

  sanosukex

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/08/05
Posts: 1857

11/28/11 3:13:59 PM#100
Originally posted by Hatewall

I only did beta this weekend and was mostly in starter areas. Part of what I am saying is that I assume there is much more than what I saw in the final game. I really hope so.

I am going to buy it and play.

iv'e played in  probably 50+ final stress tests for mmo's(pay and free) I never palyed in one that anything was really changed at all upon release. What you saw this beta is what you can expect at launch(expect maybe few graphical tweaks like AA and such and of course some bug fixes)

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html

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