and man-hour costs? lol!  This is the largest budget MMO in history! You would expect they could find some tiny bit of money here in that insane budget of theirs to add some soul and life to this game! /Facepalm

Yeah I've ponder about this since I tried the game, where did they spent it all?

Felt like when you made your own modules to NWN you put a mob here and there or in groups took like 1min to do and they stood there waitied to be killed when you started the module.

Same in TOR the mobs the npcs the so called "wildlife" they are all static hardly move and if they move they move in one direction and stop and go back the same way they came from.

*crickets* anyone?, that was the feeling of the enviroment i got when i played TOR.

I made a post about this in both the SWTOR general forums and suggestion box forums.  Seems most players are on the same page about this.  Can see the general chat post here:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=678077

and the suggestion box post here (perhaps replying in the suggestion thread will help get Bioware's attention?)  We'll see

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=678344

Funny, last time I checked mobs in WoW just stand there or path a set pattern over and over again.  They won't even attack you unless you attack them 98% of the time.  And even if they did, your toon is so OP compared to them that they didn't have a chance to begin with.

I also seem to recall everyone complaining about the mobs in Rift dismounting players all the time (low level mobs attacking high level characters).  It was such an inconvenience that they made the mobs ignore high level characters.  Where's the realism in that?  Yeah I hate your guts, but only if you are at my level or lower.  

You say you want life, but only if it doesn't interfere with your game.  They can fill the world with thousands of mobs that auto aggro onto everything in sight... you'd spend more time killing them then doing the quests and possibly never get very far in an hours time.  Then you'd complain that it's too real and that you want the world to be more static so that you can avoid the mobs and do whatever.

Games are like this because the player base asked for it to be that way... just as they asked for Pandas.

Originally posted by paterah

I have to agree with this unfortunately. Also the fact that enemy mobs don't move at all doesn't help either. Even minimal movement like most other similar MMOs would go a long way.

MOBs don't move around, because there is no ROOM for them to move around. All the places that I have been in the game had creatures crammed into the environment in such a way that they literally were on top of each other. I understand there are more open spaces later in the game, but from what I have seen in videos, this doesn't change. The people who build SWTOR's world have a thing or two to learn about making it feel alive.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Kanester

I seriously don't know what people want anymore

One "want" per person, apparently all different.  And ire at the devs if their "want" isn't the top of the priority list.

That's pretty much the nutshell history of MMO message boards there.  ^

Completely wrong.  While what people want is subjective as far as details go, you still have basically two camps of people on this site.  One camp loves the direction current themepark MMOs are going, which tends to lean on the side of solo-friendly, linear, simplified casual gameplay, and the others want something much more deep such as a virtual world, non-linear.  You can categorize these as themepark and sandbox if you want, but I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive.  In fact, The Secret World is shaping up to be a nice hybrid of the two.

I have said for a while now that it would help a lot if these two types of games were not lumped into the MMORPG genre, because they are completely different gaming experiences and the two groups of people involved don't really understand each other. That is the main source of arguments here.

For example, your virtual world (sandbox, whatever)  type player will probably love a player-driven economy with in-game housing, deep resource and crafting systems, skill-based and open ended gaming (no end game), community, non-combat classes with full gameplay paths, interdependent classes where no player is an island unto themselves, community and RP features, etc.

A themepark player tends to be combat-focused and to not care about crafting much at all, and if they do, they want it fairly simple so it doesn't take much time away from leveling. They don't want to be "forced" to group or work with other players to progress in the world.  They prefer a fairly linear leveling progression toward end-game or rerolling another class. Social features don't really interest them. Non-combat classes are considered useless, etc.

Of course I am generalizing here and some of you will be in both, or neither camps, but those are really your main camps here.  We can argue details all day long, but the fact is that these two mmo philosophies are as different as night and day.  It's a lot like watching a Democrat trying to understand the mindset of a Republican, and vice versa.  Two different universes.

Life? Soul? Realism? You just counterdefined Video Game right there.

The "life and soul" of mmos for me is the community. With that being the case, it is no great surprise most are shockingly poor in that department these days.

I have seen rain, lightning, sandstorms and snowstorms.

There is weather in the game, so I guess that's one that can be knocked off the list.

Personally I didn't mind the lack of day/night cycles, but YMMV.

Originally posted by quentin405

Originally posted by Alot

Originally posted by quentin405

LOL at thread. When a game is amazing as ToR is, people start saying things like "Wheres the spirit, and soul"

"Wheres the dynamic weather system?"

"OMG Npcs dont run around town, and have there own lifes and goals like some sort of SIMS game"

"Omg there is no day/night cycle, game killer"

"OMG Cool downs and toolbars hotkeys weapons levels and experience, ROFL THIS GAME IS A CLONE OF WOW"

 

STFU  this game is the best thing released in YEARS AND YEARS..

Thats where the life and soul is,  inside the fact the game is epic win

You know what? This post is fantastic: it lacks common sense, it lacks lack of "leet speak" and it completely avoids the topic of the thread. Ah well, in the end this post may not be so wonderful, but at least you increased your post count, and that's all that matters isn't it? : )

On-topic: I agree with the OP, although I have seen (and heard) a few conversations between NPCs. But unfortunately, these conversations are COMPLETELY disconnected from the characters involved: the animations made by the characters are out of sync with the dialogue, and the dialogue doesn't fade into the background as you move further away from the NPCs.

See, exactly what I was talking about Officer.  People complain about the most minute random, obscure meaningless features of a game trying to say it lacks quality.

{mod edit} You are on a forum where a game is being discussed, and one of the many discussions that are currently going on involves a complaint about the (lack of) life and soul in this game, anything that is relevant to the topic should be posted.  {mod edit}

Originally posted by Alot

one of the many discussions that are currently going on involves a complaint about the (lack of) life and soul in this game, anything that is relevant to the topic should be posted

Well, treating abstract concepts as concrete usually does lead to trouble.

Where's the life and soul of this game?

Thats what you as a player need to put inthere....

---

Originally posted by ironhelix

---

Originally posted by paterah
I have to agree with this unfortunately. Also the fact that enemy mobs don't move at all doesn't help either. Even minimal movement like most other similar MMOs would go a long way.

---

MOBs don't move around, because there is no ROOM for them to move around. All the places that I have been in the game had creatures crammed into the environment in such a way that they literally were on top of each other. I understand there are more open spaces later in the game, but from what I have seen in videos, this doesn't change. The people who build SWTOR's world have a thing or two to learn about making it feel alive.

---

Originally posted by lizardbones


Mobs exist so you can kill them. Why does it matter what they're doing when you're not killing them? If you're not doing something that's part of your story line or a mission, you won't even see them.

SWTOR: Immersion unleashed.....  

Honestly, I've been trying not to get involved regarding the little back and forths going on about how brilliant/disappointing this game is, but if what you said is how people actually feel, they kind of deserve a flat experience.  That whole sentence reaks of MMO fail.  Themeparks away!

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by lizardbones


Mobs exist so you can kill them. Why does it matter what they're doing when you're not killing them? If you're not doing something that's part of your story line or a mission, you won't even see them.

SWTOR: Immersion unleashed.....  

Honestly, I've been trying not to get involved regarding the little back and forths going on about how brilliant/disappointing this game is, but if what you said is how people actually feel, they kind of deserve a flat experience.  That whole sentence reaks of MMO fail.  Themeparks away!

That is the case for every MMO outside of Ryzom, get some perspective...

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by lizardbones


Mobs exist so you can kill them. Why does it matter what they're doing when you're not killing them? If you're not doing something that's part of your story line or a mission, you won't even see them.

SWTOR: Immersion unleashed.....  

Honestly, I've been trying not to get involved regarding the little back and forths going on about how brilliant/disappointing this game is, but if what you said is how people actually feel, they kind of deserve a flat experience.  That whole sentence reaks of MMO fail.  Themeparks away!

agree and the more we pay for it the more they will push it.

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by lizardbones


Mobs exist so you can kill them. Why does it matter what they're doing when you're not killing them? If you're not doing something that's part of your story line or a mission, you won't even see them.

SWTOR: Immersion unleashed.....  

Honestly, I've been trying not to get involved regarding the little back and forths going on about how brilliant/disappointing this game is, but if what you said is how people actually feel, they kind of deserve a flat experience.  That whole sentence reaks of MMO fail.  Themeparks away!

That's the deal with this game right now.  You're hearing the lovers of it say "we didn't need that feature anyway, and 99% of gamers don't care about it".   So basically what they are saying is exactly what I said in the OP.  The game is a sterile mmo experience where VO quests were used to spice up otherwise boring (in my opinion) gameplay and world.  The world, the atmosphere, the details that immerse you deeply into the story, is non-existant.    Now I know some people will argue that last sentence, and all I can say to that is good on you, if you are cool with the way this game looks and feels.  For me, compared to much, much older games, it is dead and lifeless.  Hell, even Rift feels more alive than this one to me and I find Rift to be general boring as well.

What can one expect when the Bioware devs basically came out a few months back and started using language like "WoW is a touchstone" to describe their $120m brand new Star Wars game. 

Originally posted by lizardbones

Mobs exist so you can kill them. Why does it matter what they're doing when you're not killing them? If you're not doing something that's part of your story line or a mission, you won't even see them.

In the process of killing them (the actual important part of the interaction), I've watched them duck behind cover, jump out from behind objects and heal each other (until I kill the healer). I've been crowd controlled too. This is a LOT more than most mmorpg where the mobs just stand there and mindlessly plug away at you until they die. I could really give a cr@p if they don't patrol around.

The NPCs on the other hand are something else entirely. The talk and have little conversations. NPCs that I've dealt with in the past with missions have something to say to me that relates both to themselves and to my missions. I've gotten a couple letters from NPCs I've dealt with in the past, giving me an update on how things are turning out (mostly good, thanks to me). At once point I walked into a bar past the security, and when I walked out the bouncers were dead and the crowd in front of the bar had scatter off someplace. I have no idea what happened there because I wasn't involved in whatever it was. It looked interesting whatever it was. In another area where security forces are fighting insurgents, you can kill the insurgents and instead of just spawning more insurgents, more come running from someplace to take up positions against the security forces.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but it really does seem that people are trying to find anything they can to nitpick about.

 

Nitpick?  I call shinanigans.  Some movement would be nice yes and I don't know where you've been playing, but everything I've seen the NPCs most certainly are frozen in time for the most part.  The mobs should move somewhat.  They should do something.  If they did do that in SWTOR, you know full well that you would be champion it as an asset.   But because they don't, all of a sudden it doesn't matter?  yeah right.

I think your definition of nitpicking is too broad.

Originally posted by MindTrigger

That's the deal with this game right now.  You're hearing the lovers of it say "we didn't need that feature anyway, and 99% of gamers don't care about it".   So basically what they are saying is exactly what I said in the OP.  The game is a sterile mmo experience where VO quests were used to spice up otherwise boring (in my opinion) gameplay.  The world, the atmosphere, the details that immerse you deeply into the story, is non-existant.    Now I know some people will argue that last sentence, and all I can say to that is good on you, if you are cool with the way this game looks and feels.  For me, compared to much, much older games, it is dead and lifeless.  Hell, even Rift feels more alive than this one to me and I find Rift to be general boring as well.

No what you're getting here are people who disagree with what is immersive and what draws them into an experience. If you didn't feel a connection to the story, the atmosphere or what have you, that's fine. However by this post all I can see is you being unwilling to accept mileage may vary based on preference and individual taste.

To me all MMO's are lifeless, that's due to the characters within having no life, all they are is text dispensers, I didn't feel that way about TORs characters, the characters are what added the life and soul to the game for me.

Originally posted by Robsolf

Originally posted by dj525

I dont need to make up excuses not to group when there is no need to group. Sorry I play plenty of mmo's and I also run a guild but guess thats not being social. Sorry the game does not give you any reason to group unless you feel like grouping up and for what to finish the super easy quest that take no skill what so ever. Sound to me like all you want to do is lvl as fast as you can, thats why you group no other reason.

If you don't group because you don't NEED to group, then that means you don't WANT to group.  Why should a game force you to do something you don't want to do?

You can use the same logic for any part of the game.  You don't NEED to do space combat, so you won't do space combat unless you WANT to do space combat.  Why should they force people to do that?

Then it's not a mmo. Whats the whole point of a mmo to play with others and there should be a need to group or whats the point of paying a sub when I can just buy a single player rpg.

That would be part of the game if you so choose to take part in space combat so be it, if you don't then you don't.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by MindTrigger

That's the deal with this game right now.  You're hearing the lovers of it say "we didn't need that feature anyway, and 99% of gamers don't care about it".   So basically what they are saying is exactly what I said in the OP.  The game is a sterile mmo experience where VO quests were used to spice up otherwise boring (in my opinion) gameplay.  The world, the atmosphere, the details that immerse you deeply into the story, is non-existant.    Now I know some people will argue that last sentence, and all I can say to that is good on you, if you are cool with the way this game looks and feels.  For me, compared to much, much older games, it is dead and lifeless.  Hell, even Rift feels more alive than this one to me and I find Rift to be general boring as well.

No what you're getting here are people who disagree with what is immersive and what draws them into an experience. If you didn't feel a connection to the story, the atmosphere or what have you, that's fine. However by this post all I can see is you being unwilling to accept mileage may vary based on preference and individual taste.

To me all MMO's are lifeless, that's due to the characters within having no life, all they are is text dispensers, I didn't feel that way about TORs characters, the characters are what added the life and soul to the game for me.

Yes these are all just opinions. So if you like the game then go have fun.