Hey All,

So I finally got a chance to play SWTOR and I've pretty much enjoyed it so far.  I've played Jedi Knight to the point where I got off the starter world and did a few things on Coruscant.  It's fun, I might buy it, but I do have one large issue with the game that is keeping me from going forward with the purchase.

Specifically, SWTOR IMO is essentially a hybrid of an SPRPG like KOTOR and a themepark MMORPG like WoW.  The problem is that these two concepts (SPRPG and MMORPG) seem to constantly trip over each other in gameplay.  Resulting in something where the SPRPG portion and MMORPG portion of the game are both worse off because of each other.

For example, all of the quests I have received have a nice dialogue/story segment like an SPRPG, but the actual actions of the quest conform to the standard themepark "kill 10 rats" model.  It's so cliche at this point that it's just uninteresting to me.  I feel like if  the game were an actual SPRPG the quests would be much more fun to do.  SPRPGs generally are much better at providing more interesting quest objectives because they aren't constrained by a shared world.

Another example of this is how you see multitudes of other players walking around with your identical companion, killing the same boss that you did 2 minutes ago.  It just makes the whole thing feel artificial...once again, an SPRPG would be much more immersive in this respect.  And companions...you get to have a companion so the game can play more like an SPRPG, but you are limited to one.  One of the great things about SPRPGs is watching the character development between your companions...this is crippled because fo the MMORPG side of this game.

And on the other side of the coin, the MMORPG portion of this game is constantly hampered by its SPRPG side as well.  For example, you constantly see mysterious "red walls" that you can't enter because it's for a specific class quest that you can't participate on (unless you are with a player on the quest).

So in the end, I just have to wonder what the point of the game is.  It strives to be both an MMORPG and an SPRPG, but I really think it would have been better just concentrating on one thing.  Make an excellent SPRPG or make an excellent MMORPG.  Trying to smash them together just causes too many problems.

You have some points there Creslin,  I do hate seeing the red walls,,  and the idea of being able to change your companions visual kits just isn't enough for me.

We've been asking for BioWare to allow us to change not just the visual appearance of our companions but also give them "nicknames"  that show over their head so you can individualize them.... that would aid in immersion immensely.

As for bosses and things of that nature that respawn,  thats mainly just what happens in an MMO....   can't really fix that too much without more sharding or instancing.  

I've gotta say, that pretty much sums up my feelings as well.  I know it's a running cliche, but it really does feel like a single player game that just happens to be on a MMO server.  On top of that, the combat is quite boring in my opinion.  I've tried smuggler and Jedi Knight and found the Knight to be the superior of the two.  Understanding that their goal was to create a story driven game, it seems to me that they spent way too much time worrying about the voiceovers and cut scenes and forgot that they were actually making a game. 

Originally posted by Creslin321

Hey All,

So I finally got a chance to play SWTOR and I've pretty much enjoyed it so far.  I've played Jedi Knight to the point where I got off the starter world and did a few things on Coruscant.  It's fun, I might buy it, but I do have one large issue with the game that is keeping me from going forward with the purchase.

Specifically, SWTOR IMO is essentially a hybrid of an SPRPG like KOTOR and a themepark MMORPG like WoW.  The problem is that these two concepts (SPRPG and MMORPG) seem to constantly trip over each other in gameplay.  Resulting in something where the SPRPG portion and MMORPG portion of the game are both worse off because of each other.

For example, all of the quests I have received have a nice dialogue/story segment like an SPRPG, but the actual actions of the quest conform to the standard themepark "kill 10 rats" model.  It's so cliche at this point that it's just uninteresting to me.  I feel like if  the game were an actual SPRPG the quests would be much more fun to do.  SPRPGs generally are much better at providing more interesting quest objectives because they aren't constrained by a shared world.

Another example of this is how you see multitudes of other players walking around with your identical companion, killing the same boss that you did 2 minutes ago.  It just makes the whole thing feel artificial...once again, an SPRPG would be much more immersive in this respect.  And companions...you get to have a companion so the game can play more like an SPRPG, but you are limited to one.  One of the great things about SPRPGs is watching the character development between your companions...this is crippled because fo the MMORPG side of this game.

And on the other side of the coin, the MMORPG portion of this game is constantly hampered by its SPRPG side as well.  For example, you constantly see mysterious "red walls" that you can't enter because it's for a specific class quest that you can't participate on (unless you are with a player on the quest).

So in the end, I just have to wonder what the point of the game is.  It strives to be both an MMORPG and an SPRPG, but I really think it would have been better just concentrating on one thing.  Make an excellent SPRPG or make an excellent MMORPG.  Trying to smash them together just causes too many problems.

I agree,though I was expecting it..

Another thing that killed the 'MMO' feel for me,which is kind of like the red walls,is that I was running into a border area of the map.A 'restricted' area which would kill you over time if you didnt get back 'into bounds'.It really kills the exploration feel IMO,here you have a wide open,what looks like a unrestricted path that may lead you to another zone or something,but no,just a "you've gone to far! get back before you mysteriously die!" invisible boundary...

they could atleast used a mountain range as a border or something..

I played the game for about 10 hours during the beta as a trooper and I got sucked into the story. Every mission I did and the choices I made felt like I made a difference. Even though the world around me didn't change (since it's an MMO) I still had my story.

Originally posted by dubyahite
Couldn't disagree with you more. I think the story elements (wha you call single player) mesh very well with the mmo side of the game. It is not at odds with the mmo aspects, it enhances them.


Calling the story elements single player provides a very narrow view of the actual gameplay mechanics. The entire story, every cutscenes, ever conversation and every quest in the game is multiplayer. You should try the multiplayer conversations out before condemning them as single player. You are very mistaken in that regard I believe.

I agree with this. I believe the story pillar of SWTOR greatly bolsters every single aspect of the game. Everything becomes relevant, real, and immersive.

I actually feel like I'm a Bounty Hunter when I go, by orders of the Hutts, to assassinate an important rebel leader, he offers me money to trick my boss, and I instead blast his face believing my loyalty to the powerful Hutts will lead to far more desireable rewards.

You know I never got a single kill mission, I think maybe one or two. The majority of the kill quests are secondary objectives which kind of fits in.

I need you to blow up the power generators, and if during the course you could severly hurt his forces that would be a bonus.

I thik it works but to each there own

There are a lot of PVE games and this is another one.

Crafting is stll somewhat of a mystery in terms of how well it ACTUALLY works...but looks like it could be fun

Realm vs realm 24/7 persistent world conflict.   UUUHHHHH  You have to wait to 50 ish, and still we don't know how good it is.

net net...for me  I know the game has good pve.

crafting....realm vs realm persistent world conflict......still  enough of a mystery to not let go of $59.95 at this time.Hopefully I'll learn more that will give me the confidence to buy.One can hope.

Originally posted by Creslin321

Hey All,

So I finally got a chance to play SWTOR and I've pretty much enjoyed it so far.  I've played Jedi Knight to the point where I got off the starter world and did a few things on Coruscant.  It's fun, I might buy it, but I do have one large issue with the game that is keeping me from going forward with the purchase.

Specifically, SWTOR IMO is essentially a hybrid of an SPRPG like KOTOR and a themepark MMORPG like WoW.  The problem is that these two concepts (SPRPG and MMORPG) seem to constantly trip over each other in gameplay.  Resulting in something where the SPRPG portion and MMORPG portion of the game are both worse off because of each other.

For example, all of the quests I have received have a nice dialogue/story segment like an SPRPG, but the actual actions of the quest conform to the standard themepark "kill 10 rats" model.  It's so cliche at this point that it's just uninteresting to me.  I feel like if  the game were an actual SPRPG the quests would be much more fun to do.  SPRPGs generally are much better at providing more interesting quest objectives because they aren't constrained by a shared world.

Another example of this is how you see multitudes of other players walking around with your identical companion, killing the same boss that you did 2 minutes ago.  It just makes the whole thing feel artificial...once again, an SPRPG would be much more immersive in this respect.  And companions...you get to have a companion so the game can play more like an SPRPG, but you are limited to one.  One of the great things about SPRPGs is watching the character development between your companions...this is crippled because fo the MMORPG side of this game.

And on the other side of the coin, the MMORPG portion of this game is constantly hampered by its SPRPG side as well.  For example, you constantly see mysterious "red walls" that you can't enter because it's for a specific class quest that you can't participate on (unless you are with a player on the quest).

So in the end, I just have to wonder what the point of the game is.  It strives to be both an MMORPG and an SPRPG, but I really think it would have been better just concentrating on one thing.  Make an excellent SPRPG or make an excellent MMORPG.  Trying to smash them together just causes too many problems.

This is your choice to play the game as a SPRPG The option to join other players in game is still there.

Originally posted by Shadanwolf

 

Realm vs realm 24/7 persistent world conflict.   UUUHHHHH  You have to wait to 50 ish, and still we don't know how good it is.

 

How can it be considered Realm Vs Realm?

Why does everyone get a boner about RvR?  It's one pixel avatar killing another pixel avatar, nothing more.

I tried to give a point by point breakdown in my Guildmasters SWTOR Review

The game isn't perfect, but it does have some good potential.  I just hope that the general population will be somewhat forgiving that it doesn't have some core MMO features, and they better get them in soon if they want to last.

Originally posted by Quesa

Why does everyone get a boner about RvR?  It's one pixel avatar killing another pixel avatar, nothing more.

At best its PvP.

It's not RvR.

Originally posted by Shadanwolf

There are a lot of PVE games and this is another one.

Crafting is stll somewhat of a mystery in terms of how well it ACTUALLY works...but looks like it could be fun

 

Realm vs realm 24/7 persistent world conflict.   UUUHHHHH  You have to wait to 50 ish, and still we don't know how good it is.

 

net net...for me  I know the game has good pve.

 

crafting....realm vs realm persistent world conflict......still  enough of a mystery to not let go of $59.95 at this time.Hopefully I'll learn more that will give me the confidence to buy.One can hope.

It's actually faction based PVP, and I don't know where you got eh idea that you had to wait till 50. You can start fighting at 20 if you roll on a PVP server.

As for crafting...I don't think it's any big mystery. And if you have questions you can always ask, or look at one of the many sites already popping up about it.

To me Star Wars had a much darker gritty look and feel to it, which contrasts sharply with what is presented here.  TOR's presentation is more Saturday morning cartoon.  With a few touches here and there and some retexturing the game would look much more compelling in my opinion.

I like the voice overs and the story, but you are right on the money how the action is very...well....it reminds me of City of Heroes or something.  The action is very boring and there is little in the world to excite the player except catch agro from two groups of mobs instead of one.

No chat bubbles :(  

Originally posted by Terranah

To me Star Wars had a much darker gritty look and feel to it, which contrasts sharply with what is presented here.  TOR's presentation is more Saturday morning cartoon.  With a few touches here and there and some retexturing the game would look much more compelling in my opinion.

 

I like the voice overs and the story, but you are right on the money how the action is very...well....it reminds me of City of Heroes or something.  The action is very boring and there is little in the world to excite the player except catch agro from two groups of mobs instead of one.

 

No chat bubbles :(  

 

 

Are we playing the same game?

Hutta, Korriban pretty dark and barren,..then you get to Dromus Kaas. And the chooces you make to align yourself to the darkside are something you;d find in some Saturday morning cartoon. I recently did a mission cutting someones head off bring it back to soemone else in a bag.

I realy had to react to this thread and say MHO about this topic

some people realy dont know what they want do they??......let me explain this:

When playing a mmorpg people find it hard work to find groups (if the game doesnt do it for that by giving players a lfg TOOL) and are constantly whining about that.

SO, most mmorpg players play alone......really??, yeah....you try to group in an mmorpg with people you dont know.....try it befour you say this aint true..RLY!

So devs make PARTS in their game that is singleplayer and sets focus to storytelling (like all REAL rpg player likes btw) and some people need to bash on the SPlayer content....if you dont like it....just cut the scenes then....np right?

mmorpg players brought this single player back into mmoRPG's......why?......because you people dont like grouping, simple.

The only way people will group are irl friends and guildmembers.

You can say i am full of it all you want......but when games have the option to turn off the chat window mean that people WANT to be left alone.....like i say'd, IMHO i think you all asked for the singleplayer parts in mmo's yourself......didn't you??

hehe

my 2 copperz

Originally posted by Magter

I played the game for about 10 hours during the beta as a trooper and I got sucked into the story. Every mission I did and the choices I made felt like I made a difference. Even though the world around me didn't change (since it's an MMO) I still had my story.

You didn't though, but if you can keep tricking yourself to thinking you did, all the more power to you I suppose.