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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » SWTOR even simpler then WoW

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47 posts found
  ethion

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 2856

 
OP  11/22/11 7:06:35 PM#1

There are a lot of good things about SWTOR but one of the things that I think is really dumb is they effectively removed stats from the game...  So now you basically just want equipment with the best upgrades or the best equipment.  Other then making sure it if for your archtype the stats are meaningless..

For each archtype there are only two stats that matter.  You endurance which gives you hitpoints and your archtype stat which gives you a boatload of upgrades.  There are other stats but they pretty much are meant for other archtypes and give you only a couple of enhancements that are redundant to your primary stat.

So as a jedi warrior you just want str/end.  Most items designed for your class will have str/end.  Sometimes the ratio is a bit different but basically the higher the quality or level the more stats...

I personally think this is a negative what do you guys think?  Like it or think it over simplifies the whole quest for gear.  Or is it similar to other games just made totally obvious?

ethion21 Xfire Miniprofile
  skeaser

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 3685

Don't die mad, just die.

11/22/11 7:09:33 PM#2

I'm fine with it. I think it should help allow everyone to experience the group content without the arsepain of needing a certain gearscore. I'd rather you just need be good at your class than having to have max enchanted master crafted greaves of pwnsauce.


A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
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  monoth

Novice Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 553

11/22/11 7:14:00 PM#3

Thats only on low level gear... as you level up other stats play a part for everyone like Power, Tech and Presence and there's also a special stat for just PvE and one for PvP don't remember their names... Anyways it's not as simple as your implying..

Only like 40% (Guessing) of the gear you can get in the game is moddable everything else has fixed stats on it....  The gear recipes you buy from your NPC trainer have no mod slots in them, but dropped schematics from flashpoints, operations and having your companions do missions like underground and diplomacy do have mod slots so there will be craftable armor with mod slots in them.

 

  Biggus99

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/30/11
Posts: 964

11/22/11 7:15:48 PM#4

Eh, it's probably a bit over-simplified to be sure, but as long as there is a lot of different gear available, I can live with it.

  GMan3

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/27/10
Posts: 2239

11/22/11 7:16:04 PM#5

    Considering that everything about this game, especially things like stats, are still in flux while beta testing . . . I do not have a problem with this at all.  The problem is, we have NO idea how exactly the stats will affect your character.  That takes months of testing with a stable system before you can make anything close to accurate appraisals.  So far, nobody has had that since even the smallest of changes to stats can seriously change teh computations.

    So for now I have no problems and will simply have to sit back and see what happens.

"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  Zenjinx

Novice Member

Joined: 9/30/11
Posts: 344

11/22/11 7:20:05 PM#6

I find the title of this post very misleading. It reads as an invitation for a flamewar.

Simplicity is in the eye of the beholder. You might consider something complex, while i may see it as easy, and vice-versa.

I don't think you can reduce a games overall complexity to a few cherry picked features.

  poefue

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/07
Posts: 233

11/22/11 7:25:58 PM#7
Originally posted by skeaser

max enchanted master crafted greaves of pwnsauce.

 

Aww, so TOR does not have max enchanted master crafted greaves of pwnsauce?
  User Deleted
11/22/11 7:27:16 PM#8

It's actually much more complex than that.

And let's not forget that stats like presence, while not directly having an impact on your damage or defense, have a major impact on your gameplay.

For example....with my Assassin, I like to use Khem Val to tank, while I DPS from behind the mob. Khem's effectiveness will be buffed by my presence stat. Of course, if I choose to gear toward presence, I'm losing points somewhere else.

And of coruse, with the moddable gear, and the various rarities of the gear and mods, it is possible to tailor your gear and it's benefits to exactly fit your play style....and look good in the process.

 

 

[Mod Edit]

  Zenjinx

Novice Member

Joined: 9/30/11
Posts: 344

11/22/11 7:28:45 PM#9
Originally posted by poefue
Originally posted by skeaser

max enchanted master crafted greaves of pwnsauce.

 

Aww, so TOR does not have max enchanted master crafted greaves of pwnsauce?

Just a hearty helping of force pudding, and light sabre candy treats.

  Dante1443

Novice Member

Joined: 2/08/08
Posts: 23

11/22/11 7:30:40 PM#10

I'm not too upset over this.  On one hand being able to choose your gear based on stats does bring another level to the game but honestly it can be a real hassle sometimes.  Instead of enjoying the game play and such, you pretty much have to put a lot of effort into finding the right gear and find how they work with your class/species traits.

  User Deleted
11/22/11 7:36:08 PM#11
Originally posted by Dante1443

I'm not too upset over this.  On one hand being able to choose your gear based on stats does bring another level to the game but honestly it can be a real hassle sometimes.  Instead of enjoying the game play and such, you pretty much have to put a lot of effort into finding the right gear and find how they work with your class/species traits.

Not really. There are vendors all over the place that sell statted gear, and still more that sell mods that affect stats.

On top of that, you have the crafted gear and mods, the loot drops....etc.

It is really NO problem at all to kit yourself out exactly as you want.

  Warjin

Novice Member

Joined: 10/25/09
Posts: 1203

11/22/11 7:36:28 PM#12
Originally posted by ethion

There are a lot of good things about SWTOR but one of the things that I think is really dumb is they effectively removed stats from the game...  So now you basically just want equipment with the best upgrades or the best equipment.  Other then making sure it if for your archtype the stats are meaningless..

For each archtype there are only two stats that matter.  You endurance which gives you hitpoints and your archtype stat which gives you a boatload of upgrades.  There are other stats but they pretty much are meant for other archtypes and give you only a couple of enhancements that are redundant to your primary stat.

So as a jedi warrior you just want str/end.  Most items designed for your class will have str/end.  Sometimes the ratio is a bit different but basically the higher the quality or level the more stats...

I personally think this is a negative what do you guys think?  Like it or think it over simplifies the whole quest for gear.  Or is it similar to other games just made totally obvious?

Sw:tor seems to be taking this game in a different direction then WoW when it comes to progression, Sw:tor is a bit more simplified when It comes to stat progresstion but that not really a bad thing. The stat coefficients are different for every game meaning.

Below is a copy and paste involving Sw:tor stats and how they effect your characters.

* (S) Strength 
* (A) Agility 
* (E) Endurance 
* (C) Cunning 
* (W) Willpower 
* (P) Presence 


Base Stats/Leveling 

Level 1 
S - 48 
A - 10 
E - 48 
C - 10 
W - 54 
P - 48 

Level 2 
S - 52 
A - 11 
E - 52 
C - 11 
W - 58 
P - 52 

Level 3 
S - 55 
A - 12 
E - 55 
C - 12 
W - 62 
P - 55 

Level 4 
S - 59 
A - 13 
E - 59 
C - 13 
W - 66 
P - 59 

Here is what we can see. Starting stats appear as follows: 
Main stat: 54 
Primary stats: 48 
Secondary: 10 

Each level, main and primary go up by 4, secondary goes up by 1. It is possible that their is a rotation we can see this by looking at the increase in primary stats. So they go up by 4, then they go up by 4, then they go up by 3, and rotate like that. Unfortunately everything after 4 level had too many factors, such as stat bonuses from gear and buffs, that I couldn't project it out further with the notes I had. With the simplicity of their design though I expect it was a mis-entry in coding and we will see it go +4/+1 respectively. 

Also as far as base modifiers, it appears you start with the following: 
Bonus damage: 0 
Accuracy: 90 (don't know what this affects) 
Crit %: 10% 
Dmg reduction: 0 
Def chance: 10 (don't know what this affects) 
Glance: 0 
Absorb: 0 (I assume both of these are affected by hardiness) 

Then you take the stat modifiers and add them to the base. Lets get into stat modifiers then. 

Stat Modifiers 

You will need to do a little math beyond what I give you here, so I will show you exactly how it works. 

Strength: - Affects bonus melee damage and bonus melee crit. 
Every 10 points = +1 bonus damage 
Every 40.1 points = +1% crit 

ex: 77 Strength 
77 / 10 = 7.7 bonus damage 
77 / 40.1 = 1.92% bonus crit 

Agility: - Affects bonus ranged damage and bonus ranged crit. 
Formula the same as Strength 

Endurance: - Affects bonus health and health regeneration. 
Every 1 point = 10 health 
Every 5 points = 1% regen 

ex: 83 Endurance 
83*10 = 830 bonus health 
83 / 5 = 16.6% regen 

Cunning: - Affects bonus tech damage and bonus tech crit. 
Formula the same as Strength 

Willpower: - Affects bonus force damage and bonus force crit. 
Formula the same as Strength 

Presence: - Affects bonus healing, extra companion health and extra companion damage. 
Every 5 points = +1 bonus healing 
Every 1 point = +2 bonus companion health 
Every 20 points = +1% companion damage 

ex: 75 Presence 
75 / 5 = +15 bonus healing 
75 * 2 = +150 companion health 
75 / 20 = +3.75% companion damage 

Armor: - Affects Kinetic and Energy damage reduction. 
Every 20.8 points = 1% reduction 

ex: 79 Armor 
79 / 20.8 = 3.8% reduction 

  alexmino

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/11
Posts: 134

11/22/11 7:40:30 PM#13

Didn't they say in the next expansion they are going from a talent system where there are ideal specs for pvp/pve too no choice on your spec at all?

Seems pretty simple.

  monoth

Novice Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 553

11/22/11 7:45:36 PM#14
Originally posted by alexmino

Didn't they say in the next expansion they are going from a talent system where there are ideal specs for pvp/pve too no choice on your spec at all?

Seems pretty simple.

First time i've heard that.... Bioware has made no comment in regards to future expansions so it sounds like your just repeating a false rumor.

  Bama1267

Novice Member

Joined: 8/24/04
Posts: 1879

11/22/11 7:46:24 PM#15

Picking gear has never been hard unless a player had no idea what they were doing. I guess In a way it simplifies it for those players so they have little way to screw it up.

  dubyahite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/11
Posts: 2506

11/22/11 7:59:50 PM#16
Haven't seen any mention of alacrity. Speeds up spell casting.

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  Warjin

Novice Member

Joined: 10/25/09
Posts: 1203

11/22/11 8:19:34 PM#17
Originally posted by dubyahite
Haven't seen any mention of alacrity. Speeds up spell casting.

Armor pen and haste are just talent bonuses unlike WoW, my guess is they don't want players to focus on them stats due to the difficulty of balancing them, WoW became to gimicky because players would overload on those stats in the past forcing them to remove armor pen all together, even as of now players are missusing haste, Sw:tor limits you on those stats via talent so you can't abuse it.

  SuperXero89

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2606

11/22/11 8:30:52 PM#18

Simplicity is good.  In these themepark games, it seems that there's always a clear and definate "best" in terms of the stats you need, so there's little reason to fog up the path between a and b behind complex math and by forcing me to visit forums for hours rather than spend time playing the game.

  maskedweasel

Tipster

Joined: 9/24/07
Posts: 7264

"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane."

11/22/11 8:33:06 PM#19
Originally posted by Warjin
Originally posted by dubyahite
Haven't seen any mention of alacrity. Speeds up spell casting.

Armor pen and haste are just talent bonuses unlike WoW, my guess is they don't want players to focus on them stats due to the difficulty of balancing them, WoW became to gimicky because players would overload on those stats in the past forcing them to remove armor pen all together, even as of now players are missusing haste, Sw:tor limits you on those stats via talent so you can't abuse it.

You can spec characters for alacrity,  but it only really helps caster classes, most notably the sage and inquisitor.  Having a high alacrity is tough because theres no specific alacrity gear,  its always a minor stat, and usually takes the place of a 3rd or 4th stat instead of, say,  crit chance.  I would spec it on my consular but found it hard to find good gear... with enough of it you do see a difference.

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  ethion

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 2856

 
OP  11/22/11 11:38:49 PM#20

ok here are some specifics

General stats are the following

str - melee damage bonus, melee crit chance

pre - companion health, companion damage bonus, companion healing bonus

aim - ranged damage bonus, ranged crit

cunning - tech damage bonus, tech crit

end - max health, health regen

will - force damage bonus, force crit

exp - pvp efficiency

For a smuggler archtype

The primary stat is cunning, so instead of above cunning gives the following

range damage bonus, range crit, tech damage bonus, tech crit, healing power

For my companion who is ranged tank type kinda like a trouper

His primary stat is aim which gives

ranged damage bonus, range crit, tech damage bonus, tech crit

So this carries across to the two force using classes similarly.

So for whatever archtype you are your primary stat gives the bonuses it would normally do plus every other bonus that matters to your class.

So lets look at equipment

Again for the smuggler what you find is that there is really only one type of equipment that makes sense for you to use and in fact given that you want medium armor it is even more obvious.  You will find equipment that is cunning/end or equipment that is will/end in medium.  Clearly thats no choice at all.

So looking at the equipment in cunning/end you will see that you basically for any particular level of equipment there are at most two sets of stats.  Cunning/End or End/Cunning.  So you can choose to build ability skills by favoring cunning or you can favor end and build hp.  

Now lets look at mods.  Mods are even worse since they only come in one ratio of stats for a set level.  You have 4 basic types to pick from.

Might - str/end

reflex - aim/end

resolve - will/end

skill - cun/end

All of them will be the same ratios.  

armoring mods tend to give you too choices like general equipment cun/end or end/cun

general mods tend to give you more base skill and little end

enhancements give end

Same concepts for weapons.

Higher level mods and equipment are better

Yes higher level gear starts adding other stats to equipment and mods.  Things like tech power, defense ratings, surge ratings, accuracy rating, critical ratings.  Mods and enhancements start to have some of these bonus stats also.

However I don't see a lot of variation other then it has one of the listed abilities or not.  The values look pretty much to be a function of the gear and are in addition to the stats already listed.  But you do need to trade off defence, accuracy, critical, and surge.  I'm not even sure what surge is...

I'd like to see equipment and mods with more variety and I'd prefer that they didn't have this primary superstat rather just leave the stats as defined and I pick stats to emphasis my characters preferences.

 

 

ethion21 Xfire Miniprofile
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