Not to beat the dead horse, but it really does damage your credibility when you give WoW's launch an A+.

That being said, I think B is a fair score given your apparent priorities, though I don't agree with many of your issues.

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by Tamanous

Not sure if someone mentioned this but:

 

Companions can be sent off the sell your grey items. It is built in game and can be done from anywhere.

I knew this when I wrote the OP and well isn't it kind of silly to have your  companion disappear for 60s to sell your grey items when you are close to a vendor and maybe even already browsing his inventory?

 

That's a perfect example of the polishing difference between a Blizzard product and TOR.

I do this all the time, but I have found that you shouldn't ever have grey items sitting in your bag when you are standing in front of a vendor.

I always sell my grey items as my bag fills up WHILE I'm questing or in a Flashpoint or whatever. When I'm done questing or heading back to a hub or something, I send my companion off while I'm traveling back to town. By the time I get there my companion is back for conversations. Also if you're walking into a big city (Coruscant or Kaas City for example) you have a little bit of walking before you get to your quest turn-in or any vendors usually. This is a perfect time to send your companion off to sell stuff. By the time you get to your quest turn-in your companion will be back to participate in the conversation. 

Originally posted by Deewe

Thanks for the feedback guys.

 

To be totally honest I do expect BioWare to do quite a lot improvements until launch but in my book, so far, Rift was more fine tuned than what I'm expecting from TOR day one.

 

IMHO, at this point the success of TOR will mostly depend on two factors:

• How fast they are going to improve the game
• How fast they are going to deliver new content

 

Thing is while they do have a great IP on their side,  there's a mighty challenger zooming on the horizon: GW2.

Top of that you can expect Rift to deliver content even faster than ever.

 

 

P.S.: see you @launch in the V.I.P. lounge ;)

I pre-ordered as well.. but I think I'm probably not as positive as you.   I've been in the beta since March and I just... well to be honest this thursday the 24th is 3 weeks until Early Access starts....

I agree pretty much with your two factors.. but also would add in:

Their ability to fix current and long term issues in the next 3 weeks.

Why?  Simply because the first 30 days are very critical to an MMO.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned much since the NDA dropped... well maybe it has been.

This last build was only the second time they carried characters over.   The first time they had issues... this time they have issues.   I do have some concern when I have not seen them able to carry characters in between builds without isssue... or seen them able to fix those issues in any kind of timely manner.   Simply telling people the solution was to start a new character.

To me that is kind of a critical thing to be able to do.. in an MMO.   In general it wouldn't even be suprising to see a "balance" pass on some classes during the first 7 to 14 days (in any MMO).   Well if you hose all those classes... the reaction of your player base may not be positive.    So anyway.. in beta we have never seen them able to do this without causing issues and its pretty much 3 weeks until Early Access starts.

We have not had enough focused testing on "end game" and its relatively fast to end game on the level curve.   I would expect that pre-made groups/guilds will have people at 50 in the first 7 days (meaning some less than 7).

We were supposed to have a "high level" server deployment to get focused testing on end game.   Well they have tried this twice before... once by adding them to existing servers (hosed the servers) and the second time was a high level server (which immediantly crashed and was taken offline.. brought back online and taken offline while the last phase was still active).   The current (third time) the deployment was delayed .. watch the sticky for updates.   When they have deployed these the characters are level 40 up to around 43 maybe 45 (its random).

So with 3 weeks to go.. we don't even have the focus server up.. no real ETA on it.. so I don't really think we'll get the focus they wanted before Early Access.

I don't really have anything "bad" to say about the game...

Its more of a concern factor because the first 30 days are generally pretty critical for an MMO.   I'm not an EA employee or shareholder so I guess I don't really have much of an investment.   However, I am a Star Wars fan and this is going to be my only option ... since that other Star Wars game shuts down the same day early access starts for TOR (and that other thing that SOE runs isn't my kind of game regardless.. clone wars or w/e its called).

I have a much longer list of issues that bother me/bugs I've reported that still exist etc

Its just these few things that really concern me... the rest is pretty minor or more based on my opinion than anything.

*edit*

I would add in an entire rant about Ilum and the promised "end game" pvp focus planets (and the entire lack of most of that in any phase of testing).   Which to me is a pretty large factor but.. some people don't pvp at all and I hate the entire pvp mini game system for Warzones so that really gets into my personal opinion.   Ilum isn't so much opinion because most of what they talked about at trade shows has never been given to us in any functional manner and Ilum is supposed to be one of many "pvp control point" planets....  and since EA owns WAR/DAoC and UO.. there should be some really impressive pvp in this game.. that I feel is lacking or even lackluster currently.

Originally posted by Tamanous

Still waiting to see Bioware's final stance on add-ons is in the long term anyway. I'd rather just simply start with adding UI scaling for now and all is good for the time being.

regarding their stance on add-ons, georg discusses this at the recent EU fansite summit at about 13mins into the Q&A(dont worry the Q&A audio is in english)

http://the-force.eu/blogs/173-fansite-summit-q-a-mit-georg-zoeller

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Can't really speak to WoW at launch,  but I see this game as doing at least as good if not better than Rift, simply due to a strong architecture and a good amount of testing going on.  I believe it will be smooth,  and the problems with the game itself will be minimal.  Performance has been pretty good on the weekend tests, whereas before in beta they did have some hitching along the way.  Most of that has cleared with the new builds.. everything is looking up.

I believe it will do better than Rift. It is a very polished game already and has a lot of promotion behind it. I played only a limited amount of time in the beta and I didn't have any issues, although the game its not really my cup of tea.

I think he just means in terms of polish.  It's pretty much a foregone conclusion that this game is going to be more successful than Rift, barring some major unforseen catastrophe.

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by Tamanous

Not sure if someone mentioned this but:

 

Companions can be sent off the sell your grey items. It is built in game and can be done from anywhere.

I knew this when I wrote the OP and well isn't it kind of silly to have your  companion disappear for 60s to sell your grey items when you are close to a vendor and maybe even already browsing his inventory?

 

That's a perfect example of the polishing difference between a Blizzard product and TOR.

Maybe I'm missing something, but the point is to have your companion clear out your inventory for you when you are far from a city and your inventory is getting full.

In fact there are 2 points here:

The first being the great feature being allowing you to sell grey items from anywhere in the wild. Rated *****

The second being while you can do the first there's no sell junk button on vendors. 

I do agree that the lack of the second can look as very minor but I dare saying it's in those kind of thing that you recognize Blizzard and lately Rift polish too. That's what IMHO sets apart, for now, TOR and those 2 games.

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by Tamanous

Not sure if someone mentioned this but:

 

Companions can be sent off the sell your grey items. It is built in game and can be done from anywhere.

I knew this when I wrote the OP and well isn't it kind of silly to have your  companion disappear for 60s to sell your grey items when you are close to a vendor and maybe even already browsing his inventory?

 

That's a perfect example of the polishing difference between a Blizzard product and TOR.

Maybe I'm missing something, but the point is to have your companion clear out your inventory for you when you are far from a city and your inventory is getting full.

In fact there are 2 points here:

 

The first being the great feature being allowing you to sell grey items from anywhere in the wild. Rated *****

The second being while you can do the first there's no sell junk button on vendors. 

 

I do agree that the lack of the second can look as very minor but I dare saying it's in those kind of thing that you recognize Blizzard and lately Rift polish too. That's what IMHO sets apart, for now, TOR and those 2 games.

You clearly didn't play WoW at launch.

yeah theres alot problems yet but thats why it's beta and no mmo has launched hiccup free. all mmo's take least few months to polish. even stinkers like star trek online took awhile to point it looked promising well it was to late time it did but still.

By placing Rift ahead of it you've lost all credance.  

By giving WoW an A+ launch rating, you've lost your damned mind.  Blizzard ended up having to credit back consumers several days worth of game time because the servers where down hard on several occasions over the first couple months,.  and the loot lag,...OMG the loot lag...

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by Tamanous

Not sure if someone mentioned this but:

 

Companions can be sent off the sell your grey items. It is built in game and can be done from anywhere.

I knew this when I wrote the OP and well isn't it kind of silly to have your  companion disappear for 60s to sell your grey items when you are close to a vendor and maybe even already browsing his inventory?

 

That's a perfect example of the polishing difference between a Blizzard product and TOR.

Maybe I'm missing something, but the point is to have your companion clear out your inventory for you when you are far from a city and your inventory is getting full.

In fact there are 2 points here:

 

The first being the great feature being allowing you to sell grey items from anywhere in the wild. Rated *****

The second being while you can do the first there's no sell junk button on vendors. 

 

I do agree that the lack of the second can look as very minor but I dare saying it's in those kind of thing that you recognize Blizzard and lately Rift polish too. That's what IMHO sets apart, for now, TOR and those 2 games.

I also think thats a big part of what BioWare is trying to achieve, in comparison to where Blizzard has gone.  BioWare has a lot of things in game that are time sink-y,  but one big part of what they are trying to accomplish is not randomly fragmenting the community when it can be handled otherwise.

The sharding system, you can't really help it,  as when the population gets too big, its a performance thing,  not to mention everyone killing the same mobs in a single area gets frustrating if you miss your chance.  But apart from that,  you don't have needless fast travel, group queueing, and while you can sell junk from anywhere,  there is still a need to spend time at vendors,  thereby making hubs important while you're out and about. 

BioWare has worked hard on balance,  they've worked hard on breeding a multiplayer experience while still needing to group (which a lot of games shun nowadays) - which I find all too impersonal.   What some may see as missing that extra little feature is actually a design decision that serves a purpose.   

Will that purpose hold true in the live game?  Nobody knows, but listen,  we've had months and month of feedback,  BioWare has listened pretty well to whats going on,  and with so many positive takes on the gameplay  the focus on these little things pales in comparison to the overall feel of the game.   

On a side note,  I feel RIFT will likely stay as strong as it ever would have had SWTOR not launched,  but I have no doubt in my mind that what BioWare will put out on launch will be many steps ahead what Trion mustered.   I remember where Trion was at this point in there development cycle.... a few weeks from launch and weekend tests going on... I was in a few of them, and the performance was terrible by comparison.  

They were both solid games for the most part,  but really, where SWTOR is now - it has more content and more polish then most games have 6 months after release.

---

Originally posted by antonatsis

 

many people will not take your opinion seriously if you consider WoW launch as an A+ or even saying it was better than RIFT lauch.Even RIFT haters say that the game was one of the abysmal MMOs with a solid launch.

---

Yeah. I skipped passed his entire post after seeing that, and went directly to reading the responses.

Also, Rift's release state was pretty sweet, in terms of technical performance, stability, and such. That said, yes, I wouldn't give Rift any TP if it were stuck in the bathroom on the night of a first date, but that's another topic... heh.

Originally posted by Deewe

Personal rating:  B+ (Expecting A- @launch)

 

==> All in all a good MMO, still very rough on the edges especially on the UI side - Agree

 

Game feels uneven, some stuff are well polished and others are lacking. Not a former Blizzard quality if you ask.

Agree - especialy customer service in beta is lacking, had few problems with GM's, even reported one :D

 

 

1. Game feels like Mass Effect MMO in SW skin.
2. UI needs luvin' good for me (not a healer type)
3. Character customization is lacking - good for me, but not an AoC, true
4. Some quest lines are not that great or even illogic - examples? never noticed...
5. Housing is even worse than LotRo - didnt noticed ANY housing, great ship like in ME
6. Space sim is disappointing - there is a space sim?????? btw space minigame gr8, clearing all dailys everyday :D

 

 

 

Intro: second build for me and still glitchy, nice, but glitchy, fun thing, U get a kind of suming up where U are and what are U up to on this toon everytime U log in.

Server Selection: Done the trick, nothing great, nothing bad either - standard

Character Creation: Painful and lacks options - smooth and easy, but some people asks for more options
1) Maybe was just me but even on lowest mouse setting it rotated the camera way too fast- camera moves faster the further U move it from toon... keep it close and its slow and smooth
2) Zooming in and out felt like there was only 2/3 camera distance settings - no closeup on face in game, reported to fix
3) Can't change the camera vertical axis. - never looked for it

4) I wished there was a tattoo less option for Zabracks and Mirialan. - didnt play republic "weard" races yet
5) Also I saw no non symmetric tattoos. - imperial side have them
6) Would have appreciated to be able to die tattoos - available change of color at creation, not in game
7) Human female faces looks either like youngsters of ugly - matter of taste... some sith ladies are weard yet still sexy... i propably need counseling after this yes?
8) Rattataki jewellery don't look great and have like 4 choices that you can combine - didnt try rattaki, agree on purebloods that more to choose from would be nice
9) Mirialan = Space Orks and Sith = Blood Elves. - never seen 200kg BE with tentackles and yellow eyes so cant say

10) Can't choose the makeup color on female characters - but can choose complexion, and some of those change makeup not skin

Questing: Played mostly a Jedi Knight and always selected the Dark answers [Beware of spoilers]: played mainly light side sith warrior
1) Being raised from Padawan to Knight is way too fast and felt nothing special. More like ok you are now 18, welcome to the club you can now buy your smokes and drink alcohol. - U are the new guy, outsider, one of masters brings U to academy as kind of "wildcard", great feeling :)
2) Dark choices were mostly about greed and greed and greed. I thought I was playing a mercenary not a Knight.

light side is about giving people second chance and not wasting resources... i felt like Darth Bane and not a "jedi born at wrong side"
3) The Jedi council member have to be really blind, death and stupid. The Dark answers were so openly evil that it felt weird not to have them react and put us directly in a force cell.

later in game masters start to notice that im acting more like oficer than true sith, point out my lack of passion and bloodlust
4) Done my best to get rid of the droid and the best they find to impose us this piece of junk is you need a companion..., is that the best you can do?

i totally dig Vette :D great sense of humor and perfectly fits to my light side way of handling things dark side guys are smacking her and shocking with voltage O.o
5) At a point we are poisoned (or at least said we are) and... nothing? Am I not supposed to be sick, dying or something?
6) I did never feel like I was THE or even A hero. (Not that I care though)

im the guy who makes the difference in how things go, the "big picture" is predefined, its "worlds order" exactly as in RL, but same as in RL its my choice how it will go for people around me, verry immersive

 

Ambiance: Never felt there was war going on on Ord Mantell. For example in WAR you felt like there was something going on and in RIFT you really felt you landed in the middle of a war (at least just after character creation). The SW ambiance was OK but not thrilling either. It's missing this little something to make us buy it.

never was on Ord Mantell... but Balmora is a warzone!! thats for sure, city under fire whole time, outskirts full of enemy forces, and sounds of bombing in background

Combat: Felt really nice but for ranged characters to stand in the open like it was nothing.
Please automatically deactivate Toss cable by default on the Knight Droid. It's really annoying to force leap a mob to have it pulled away from us.
Note: I was unable to find the way to automatically display all cover slots for the smuggler while moving. However I liked how he automatically rolled to the selected covered spot, even if I was a bit far from it.

in prevoius build few levels on agent, didnt even have time to look for cover, he automaticly choosed nearest or set up own... weard at first that they took the choice from me, but did make combat feel smooth and fluent, no idea how it goes now

 

Abilities: Honestly they should replace the #1 ability for each class with an autoattack. Spamming it is annoying in the long term and it doesn't help making the combat more vibrant. Only more like a hassle.

no way!! never again AA, first few lews are weard to learn new way, but later it feels really smooth and after 10 U have new skills that greatly fills in all possible gaps in rotation, no more classes with 60% dmg done by AA with coeficients (poisons, bleeds,seals), U dont think what to use next? U die :D

Item Collection: Area loot is even better than in Rift as wider.  - AoE looting is nothing, sending comapion to gather resources while running around feels GREAT :D

Inventory: Once again a MMO with painful inventory management. - ??? - seriously no comment...
1) Some icons are really difficult to distinguish from others. Ex stims and grey items looks alike on my monitor. I had to be careful not to sell them

every items "field" have colouring to its frame... green isnt gray for me... problems with eyes recently? or color blindness? distinctive differences betwean shapes of icons btw.
2) Miss a sell grey items at vendor. - yeah, like i would let some stranger to go trough my stuff and say to me whats important and whats not... my sidekick does that (send companion to sell gray items from a middle of desert :D )
3) Miss filter bags, like in WAR or better WoW ArkInventory. And I'd like separate, resizable bags.

mater of liking i think... all those years in WoW i always had bagnon, all in one big bag and sorted personally... so i like it as it is
4) I wish there was a small icon on every item to categorise them: ex heavy armor, medium armor, 1h saber, 2h saber... so we don't need to mouse over an item to know who can use it.

tbh i know that when i see the icon... there is distinctive difference betwean 1h light saber, 2h lightsaber, medium or heavy armor, only thing i have to check are stats
5) Bag space is too small - upgradable for credits - like buying new biger bags in other games...

Character Sheet: Graphically speaking looks neat but should rise a bit the T7 droid companion display as it's cutting it's legs. - no short droid so no idea, for me standard
Functionality wise:
1) Hide slots toggle should be next to the head slot. - would be easier, so agree
2) Wish I had a shoulder pad slot and I could hide these ugly shoulder flaps. - no slot for shoulders,  true, none too ugly on SW yet... so nothing to say
3) Can't zoom in/out the character doll. - true, annoying, reported on beta forum few times, so we should get it done soon i think
4) Frame should be resizable and moveable - frame COULD be resizable and movable, not needed imho
I looked alike all characters around, was forced using gear that I did not like.

i think only moment i looked like other warriors around was when we all bought same chest from commendations vendor at Korriban, levs 8-10, earlier and further any1 have something different, and at 30 i didnt met any1 even remotely looking alike (except chest from vendor again), and anyway we are imperial military force in a kind so we SHOULD have something in common in my eyes...
=> Felt like I was playing a character provided by the server, not mine. - never

Movement: Running animations felt a bit too rigid and female looked like they were walking with heels not running around in a dangerous area with guns. - played with few female chars in partys, and dint noticed, Vette walks and runs fine

Zones: Switching instances = 30 minutes cooldown. WTHeck??? - and on same CD with HS - big thing on forums, count on fixing before launch

Graphics: Really like the work done by the environmental artists. Really don't like some of the gear. - never had nothing that would really "not fit" into setting, so agree on first, disagree on second
For example Coruscant senator robes are really ugly: from the choice of colors to the design through the textures. Hopefully a place holder. wasnt on Coruscant so nothing about them to say, didnt noticed anything special at Kaas City .

Some textues are wahsed out others looks like plastic instead of cloth or metal.

Really dislike the huge shoulder pads. - still MUTCH better than i had in WoW, and seen only on casters as for now, so it fits into kind of "crazy excentric evil maniac" style of outfiting :D (and yeah there IS dressing room in game so U can check how it will look before buying)

Story Line/Voice over: Acting acting is nice, while all the sentences does not always melt well as have diferent speed/tone/level.  In my play time I already noticed my character repeating the same sentence a few times.   I can foresee players starting skipping V.O. fast, at least after levelling one character on each faction.

Really dislike the multy pass rendering in cut scene. It's not helping the immersion. - tbh i think i often use same frases in RL... especialy the short ones like "Oh really?" ;) ... on skiping VO at nextchars i may agree, but only on "standard" non class quests, and only if U dont pay attention to building affection with companion U have by your side atm.

 

UI: TOR biggest issue right now. - for some, i like it, but i used customised UI only from the point i started raiding, and this one fits me well anyway

Map: Poorly implemented. - dissagree
1) It's stuck in our face in the middle of the screen - when U stand still and wanna look at it, good thing
2) Non resizable - true
3) Non moveable - true
4) Can't select multiple entries like vendor + trainer - but they always get visible on map if U use "magnifying glass" feature, they lighten up when U highlight them, great thing, positive for me
5) Can't zoom in/out (mouse zoom isn't handy) - yes U can , and yes it is, in customization is option to turn the "magnifying glass" feature
6) Can't center the map around our character - true, but its because of what was said earlier, map is centered and takes almost whole screen... feels at place, but really a thing of taste i think
7) The door/stairs/elevator icons to select other maps are too small for clicking conveniently - disagree, they feel natural, i didnt yet found in RL bigger buttons to elevator, maybe if someone is used to 1mx1m in life those 10cmx30cm may feel small ;)
8) Can't create waypoints - true
9) Would like a frame less faded, moveable and resizable map - agree on second and third
10) Would like to select a destination (ex trainer) and have an optional in game line drawn to guide us to the destination in interiors, as in SWG or Dead space - maybe as option to turn on in customization, but for sure not as default, not my thing, immersion breaking, so yes and no
11) Would like in world waypoints as in SWG, so no need to constantly open the map to know where to go in exterior - same as above, yes and no, btw many SWG vets says alike, so we will see
 

Keybinds: Needs more options and put keybinds in 2 columns for each function not 2 rows. Also missing a mouse look toggle. - yes and no again, just not "my thing"

Crafting: mostly useless for current character, better  for alts. - in beta, U must remember that people mainly GIVE blue and even purple drops away to strangers they meet questing around, so there is no real market for selling things or to concentrate on first creating something, than reverse engineer till U get blue or purple schematic and than finally creating it for personal use or sale... great fun when there willbe some market on live servers, waste of time on beta
1) From what I saw rewards and loots are better than crafted items. - "better than standard crafted items" true
2) It's really unpleasant not be able to queue items to be crafted or to queue missions - it is possible to queue crafting, not missions, so false/true
3) Wish we could see in game what can be crafted with a profession without being obliged to train it. - trainer says what U willbe able to do with it... shows no items though if thats what U ment, so lets say agree
4) It would also be handy separate crafting profession on a side and gathering ones on another in the codex. - cosmetic... but agree
5) Needs filters for items types, slots, class and so on - again, cosmetic so propably will happen before launch, but currently, agree

Housing: Not a house but a glorified transportable bank. Same as above. - didnt see ANY house for my chars tbh... i have nice ship like in ME though (exactly as they said long ago)

 

Guilds: N/A didn't used it - same

 

PvP: Did not try that. - same

 

Space: Didn't try it out, I know it's a bad experience. Suggestion: don't advertise it too much.

great fun :D i really enjoy that minigame, bring back memories of old arcade games :D , gives a lot of exp on daily basis, and some kind of attachment to ship... upgrading and all... but its totally NOT a space sim, if thats what U want from it, "thats not the space shooter U're looking for"

 

 

Final word:  It's Star Wars, we can travel faster than the light, have real conversations with droids and we have to go to a terminal to send or receive a text message?

 

nope, we have portable holoterminal with us, and some quests are updated via it, we have to go to terminal to send a "secured" message (both holocommunication and mail) fits perfectly into SW lore as for me

 

 

[P.S.: All the above is a matter of personal opinion] same here :)

ok, i think that sums it up :)

as usual there propably are at least as many points of view as there are beta testers :)

just my 3 credits ;)

Originally posted by Mysk

 

---

Originally posted by antonatsis

 

many people will not take your opinion seriously if you consider WoW launch as an A+ or even saying it was better than RIFT lauch.Even RIFT haters say that the game was one of the abysmal MMOs with a solid launch.

---

 

Yeah. I skipped passed his entire post after seeing that, and went directly to reading the responses.

Also, Rift's release state was pretty sweet, in terms of technical performance, stability, and such. That said, yes, I wouldn't give Rift any TP if it were stuck in the bathroom on the night of a first date, but that's another topic... heh.

What you missed is my rating is based on the standard at the time these game launched. When Wow launched, even with the first week of issues it was the best of the best launch ever. Would you compare SWG that launched before it you would give it a  D.

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by Mysk 

---

Originally posted by antonatsis  

many people will not take your opinion seriously if you consider WoW launch as an A+ or even saying it was better than RIFT lauch.Even RIFT haters say that the game was one of the abysmal MMOs with a solid launch.

---

 Yeah. I skipped passed his entire post after seeing that, and went directly to reading the responses.

Also, Rift's release state was pretty sweet, in terms of technical performance, stability, and such. That said, yes, I wouldn't give Rift any TP if it were stuck in the bathroom on the night of a first date, but that's another topic... heh.

What you missed is my rating is based on the standard at the time these game launched. When Wow launched, even with the first week of issues it was the best of the best launch ever. Would you compare SWG that launched before it you would give it a  D. 

    While I don't exactly disagree with you Deewe, I can't help but feeling the way you determined how good the launch was is a little short cited.  While WoW did have a decent launch "for it's time", it was still a pretty bad launch overall and so that fact alone weakens your arguement.

I haven't played the game so I can't judge but I've seen several char creation videos and I find myself wishing that they had borrowed some ideas from Star Trek Online.  Say what you want about that game, but you can make pretty much any type of character you want.  

Originally posted by GMan3

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by Mysk 

---

Originally posted by antonatsis  

many people will not take your opinion seriously if you consider WoW launch as an A+ or even saying it was better than RIFT lauch.Even RIFT haters say that the game was one of the abysmal MMOs with a solid launch.

---

 Yeah. I skipped passed his entire post after seeing that, and went directly to reading the responses.

Also, Rift's release state was pretty sweet, in terms of technical performance, stability, and such. That said, yes, I wouldn't give Rift any TP if it were stuck in the bathroom on the night of a first date, but that's another topic... heh.

What you missed is my rating is based on the standard at the time these game launched. When Wow launched, even with the first week of issues it was the best of the best launch ever. Would you compare SWG that launched before it you would give it a  D. 

    While I don't exactly disagree with you Deewe, I can't help but feeling the way you determined how good the launch was is a little short cited.  While WoW did have a decent launch "for it's time", it was still a pretty bad launch overall and so that fact alone weakens your arguement.

Apart the server stability for a few days because of the insane number of players trying to log in:

No major bugs, all talents, animations, UI functionalities, nearly all quests worked.

I don't call that decent, it was impressive for the least and set a new standard.

Until then MMO developers kept arguing making a polished MMO was impossible, not anymore. Blizzard proved that and ashamed the others studios.

Umm...WoW at launch = A+, lol.

You obviously weren't there.

I hear that Anarchy Online launch was a B+ using the same scale...

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by GMan3

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by Mysk 

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Originally posted by antonatsis  

many people will not take your opinion seriously if you consider WoW launch as an A+ or even saying it was better than RIFT lauch.Even RIFT haters say that the game was one of the abysmal MMOs with a solid launch.

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 Yeah. I skipped passed his entire post after seeing that, and went directly to reading the responses.

Also, Rift's release state was pretty sweet, in terms of technical performance, stability, and such. That said, yes, I wouldn't give Rift any TP if it were stuck in the bathroom on the night of a first date, but that's another topic... heh.

What you missed is my rating is based on the standard at the time these game launched. When Wow launched, even with the first week of issues it was the best of the best launch ever. Would you compare SWG that launched before it you would give it a  D. 

    While I don't exactly disagree with you Deewe, I can't help but feeling the way you determined how good the launch was is a little short cited.  While WoW did have a decent launch "for it's time", it was still a pretty bad launch overall and so that fact alone weakens your arguement.

Apart the server stability for a few days because of the insane number of players trying to log in:

No major bugs, all talents, animations, UI functionalities, nearly all quests worked.

I don't call that decent, it was impressive for the least and set a new standard.

Until then MMO developers kept arguing making a polished MMO was impossible, not anymore. Blizzard proved that and ashamed the others studios.

    The server instability lasted almost 2 weeks after launch . . . not so good.  While there were no MAJOR bugs, there were many minor ones, to many . . . not so good.  A lot of the bugs involed animations not showing at all even though the power worked properly OR the talents not affecting powers like they were supposed to . . . not so good.  UI was pretty good, maybe even great (IMO).  While nearly all quests worked, that still left a bunch that did not work leaving you unable to get new quests . . . not so good.

    Overall, I would have given WoW a B+ for their launch (at best) based on the timeframe of when the game was launched.  Many of those people that couldn't even get into the game, or kept hitting the bugs I mentioned would argue against both of us I am sure and for good reason.  If I was to grade WoW's launch compared to every MMO launch I have witnessed to date though, I would be stretching to give them a B-.  Still not a bad grade and basically the reason I don't exactly disagree with you Deewe.  I just feel your A+ is a little inflated.

space combat is not poor its that people want a full space comabt came like tie fighter. People loved starfox but forsome reason they hate this.

and its just a mini game. not that important to story, seriously people want them to release two full mmos at the same time. I think of the space combat game like the arcade space combat game they stuck in starcraft 2, am I pissed that they added in the arcade style shooter and not a full on space combat simulator nope its an rts, just this is not a space simulator its a fps grand based mmorpg.

Also in regards to the glorified housing maybe they should just take it out becuase it sucks so bad is that whats your saying, is that its so horrible they should removie it, and theres no redeemable quality and that instead of releasing the game they should of spent another 2 months on the custumization of the ship?

Originally posted by GMan3

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by GMan3

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by Mysk 

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Originally posted by antonatsis  

many people will not take your opinion seriously if you consider WoW launch as an A+ or even saying it was better than RIFT lauch.Even RIFT haters say that the game was one of the abysmal MMOs with a solid launch.

---

 Yeah. I skipped passed his entire post after seeing that, and went directly to reading the responses.

Also, Rift's release state was pretty sweet, in terms of technical performance, stability, and such. That said, yes, I wouldn't give Rift any TP if it were stuck in the bathroom on the night of a first date, but that's another topic... heh.

What you missed is my rating is based on the standard at the time these game launched. When Wow launched, even with the first week of issues it was the best of the best launch ever. Would you compare SWG that launched before it you would give it a  D. 

    While I don't exactly disagree with you Deewe, I can't help but feeling the way you determined how good the launch was is a little short cited.  While WoW did have a decent launch "for it's time", it was still a pretty bad launch overall and so that fact alone weakens your arguement.

Apart the server stability for a few days because of the insane number of players trying to log in:

No major bugs, all talents, animations, UI functionalities, nearly all quests worked.

I don't call that decent, it was impressive for the least and set a new standard.

Until then MMO developers kept arguing making a polished MMO was impossible, not anymore. Blizzard proved that and ashamed the others studios.

    The server instability lasted almost 2 weeks after launch . . . not so good.  While there were no MAJOR bugs, there were many minor ones, to many . . . not so good.  A lot of the bugs involed animations not showing at all even though the power worked properly OR the talents not affecting powers like they were supposed to . . . not so good.  UI was pretty good, maybe even great (IMO).  While nearly all quests worked, that still left a bunch that did not work leaving you unable to get new quests . . . not so good.

    Overall, I would have given WoW a B+ for their launch (at best) based on the timeframe of when the game was launched.  Many of those people that couldn't even get into the game, or kept hitting the bugs I mentioned would argue against both of us I am sure and for good reason.  If I was to grade WoW's launch compared to every MMO launch I have witnessed to date though, I would be stretching to give them a B-.  Still not a bad grade and basically the reason I don't exactly disagree with you Deewe.  I just feel your A+ is a little inflated.

Let's settle this and say I had a really bad experience with all others MMO launch till Wow then. 

I'll leave it to you to grade this ;)