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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » DeaconX Reviews SWTOR (5 months of testing)

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290 posts found
  Raventree

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 455

It is a double pleasure to gank the ganker.
-Raven Treeavelli

11/22/11 10:40:15 AM#21

A few thoughts.  You described many of the features as pretty standard, yet rated them fairly low.  Your review overall was fairly negatively skewed and as such should probably be taken with a grain of salt.  That being said, I appreciate the in-depth discussion of your experiences.

As for those people that grind to end game as fast as they possibly can and then immediately begin complaining that they don't have enough to do, forget about them.  They are constantly in a hell of their own making and the rest of us couldn't care less that they skip half the content and then don't feel like they have anything to do.  They will always be there and every single time a new MMO comes out you hear them complaing about lack of content, but for most of us that isn't the case. 

The game sounds to me like it is going to be fantastic, but will still have plenty of room for improvement.  That isn't such a bad thing.

Currently playing:
Rift
Played:
SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
World of Warcraft, AoC

  TJixlee

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/11
Posts: 174

11/22/11 10:41:47 AM#22
Originally posted by kwai
Originally posted by TJixlee

jesus christ go rate vanilla WoW. i tested the game as long as you have. and WHOA YOUR NEGATIVE hope i dont see you at launch. this is NOT for you

 

You wan't a themepark mmo ?,  go play rift , wow,  aoc or any of the other so called mmo's where everything dies out after a while.

I very much doubt you have been in SW:ToR for 5 months.

 

SW:ToR in its current state is not even fucking ready for launch, so many bugs early on in the game that outright destroys things for people trying to follow a certain path, if you knew about things like this you wouldn't even open up your mouth and start spewing shit you don't know shit about.

 

nuff said. 

best part is you thinking you know and i quote (your shit)

  TJixlee

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/11
Posts: 174

11/22/11 10:42:37 AM#23
Originally posted by Raventree

A few thoughts.  You described many of the features as pretty standard, yet rated them fairly low.  Your review overall was fairly negatively skewed and as such should probably be taken with a grain of salt.  That being said, I appreciate the in-depth discussion of your experiences.

As for those people that grind to end game as fast as they possibly can and then immediately begin complaining that they don't have enough to do, forget about them.  They are constantly in a hell of their own making and the rest of us couldn't care less that they skip half the content and then don't feel like they have anything to do.  They will always be there and every single time a new MMO comes out you hear them complaing about lack of content, but for most of us that isn't the case. 

The game sounds to me like it is going to be fantastic, but will still have plenty of room for improvement.  That isn't such a bad thing.

improvement is a good thing it makes for a bright future. but everyone wants everything at the beginning all at once......

  Supersoups

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1062

11/22/11 10:42:41 AM#24
Originally posted by kwai
Originally posted by TJixlee

jesus christ go rate vanilla WoW. i tested the game as long as you have. and WHOA YOUR NEGATIVE hope i dont see you at launch. this is NOT for you

 

You wan't a themepark mmo ?,  go play rift , wow,  aoc or any of the other so called mmo's where everything dies out after a while.

I very much doubt you have been in SW:ToR for 5 months.

 

SW:ToR in its current state is not even fucking ready for launch, so many bugs early on in the game that outright destroys things for people trying to follow a certain path, if you knew about things like this you wouldn't even open up your mouth and start spewing shit you don't know shit about.

 

nuff said. 

Game breaking bugs in SWTOR? for real? if you are going to lie atleast make it believable one. I have been testing SWTOR for 6 months now and it is not bugged to extent where it could be considered 'not ready' for launch. I call bull*** on 'so many bugs' early on in game comment.

  Narcin1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/08/07
Posts: 163

11/22/11 10:43:43 AM#25

Your review seems comprehensive yet amateur. You see-you seemed a bit biased. For example, and the reason your total score is so low, is because you flunked almost everything without hardly giving anything credit. To review an MMO fairly, and justly, you need to give it the credit it deserves for what it has supplied.  All you've done is set up a concocton of categories in order to dissect any general MMO. For example, if an MMO didn't have Housing then you would give it a 0/10 for that category? Maybe you should readjust your reviewing process to address all relevant information, then exploit BOTH pro's and cons in order to provide the best review. Otherwise, you sound like IGN-who are a bunch of shitasses. 

By all means bash a game if you really didn't like it, but at least do it the right way and by it supper first.

{mod edit}

 

Argh

  kwai

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/27/04
Posts: 842

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti.

11/22/11 10:44:30 AM#26
Originally posted by TJixlee
Originally posted by kwai

Good read, overall the same experience i have as being a closed beta tester, i can't even get my self to login anymore, the game is so tiresome, go to x, kill y type of mobs x times...............

 

right now on to Skyrim and play it to the teath, i hear it has several 100 hours of gameplay , where as SW:ToR doesn't even have that yet , its sadly dissapointing.

OMG are you sadly mistaken. simply put. if your nto a loser and you ACTUALLY knwo what is means to play mmoRPG. it's 200+ hours of your main story alone(EACH CLASS THAT IS there is 8, 4 per faction). unless your a badass hardcore player and skip everything then just quit and play a game by yourself

 

And i can see your an inspiring new member of the mmorpg.com community, how long do you think you will thrive here with the kind of words your throwing around ? , for one you don't know what your talking about when it comes to SW:ToR , i have watched every cinematic my character has been put through, selected my response options accordingly, this game has around a full months playtime, then your done with your levelling and your storyline, even a long time before that.

For the hardcore players, they will be done with levelling and all that shit before 2 weeks has passed, the group of casuals and normals will finish the game within 3-4 weeks , its already been proven, so how about you just take a nice cup of stfu.

  TJixlee

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/11
Posts: 174

11/22/11 10:44:38 AM#27
Originally posted by Supersoups
Originally posted by kwai
Originally posted by TJixlee

jesus christ go rate vanilla WoW. i tested the game as long as you have. and WHOA YOUR NEGATIVE hope i dont see you at launch. this is NOT for you

 

You wan't a themepark mmo ?,  go play rift , wow,  aoc or any of the other so called mmo's where everything dies out after a while.

I very much doubt you have been in SW:ToR for 5 months.

 

SW:ToR in its current state is not even fucking ready for launch, so many bugs early on in the game that outright destroys things for people trying to follow a certain path, if you knew about things like this you wouldn't even open up your mouth and start spewing shit you don't know shit about.

 

nuff said. 

Game breaking bugs in SWTOR? for real? if you are going to lie atleast make it believable one. I have been testing SWTOR for 6 months now and it is not bugged to extent where it could be considered 'not ready' for launch. I call bull*** on 'so many bugs' early on in game comment.

YES a person who actually di play as long as i did. nice to knwo someone pated attentionto the game( i salute you sir) lol

  Akais

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/07
Posts: 267

11/22/11 10:45:16 AM#28

Thanks for your game impressions.

Your concerns echo my own, tbh.

I know this game will have a great launch, my larger concerns are in the 6 or so months following it. 

I like a theme park MMO as much as the next person, but I need a sandbox to explore in. I haven't played this game at all and don't know if you can go "off the beaten path" and find stuff to get in to.

 

  kwai

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/27/04
Posts: 842

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti.

11/22/11 10:46:49 AM#29
Originally posted by Narcin1

Your review seems comprehensive yet amateur. You see-you seemed a bit biased. For example, and the reason your total score is so low, is because you flunked almost everything without hardly giving anything credit. To review an MMO fairly, and justly, you need to give it the credit it deserves for what it has supplied.  All you've done is set up a concocton of categories in order to dissect any general MMO. For example, if an MMO didn't have Housing then you would give it a 0/10 for that category? Maybe you should readjust your reviewing process to address all relevant information, then exploit BOTH pro's and cons in order to provide the best review. Otherwise, you sound like IGN-who are a bunch of shitasses. 

By all means bash a game if you really didn't like it, but at least do it the right way and by it supper first.

Also, you seem like too much of an arrogant asshat to post on someone else's site, maybe you should start your own.

 

 

Have you even played the game yet  or played it enough ? , you seem like an awefull diehard BioWare / StarWars fan and will do anything to keep your perfect scenario.

  solarine

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/06
Posts: 1204

11/22/11 10:47:28 AM#30

Reading that comprehensive post, the first thing I thought was "Aww, it's such a pity Deacon did not enjoy the game". And I am serious: You were so excited about SWTOR even *before* it was announced Bioware was working on it. And you were sort of the go-to guy for the fresh and interesting bit of news. 

Much-belated kudos to you for those times, by the way. :) 

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3190

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

11/22/11 10:48:16 AM#31
Originally posted by czekoskwigel
Originally posted by kwai

Good read, overall the same experience i have as being a closed beta tester, i can't even get my self to login anymore, the game is so tiresome, go to x, kill y type of mobs x times...............

 

right now on to Skyrim and play it to the teath, i hear it has several 100 hours of gameplay , where as SW:ToR doesn't even have that yet , its sadly dissapointing.

That's funny, because I NEVER received a quest that told me to "kill y type of mobs x times".... Not once.  So either you never really played, or you are just a liar out trolling. 

Skyrim has 100 hours of gameplay?  So you're telling me that SWTOR has twice what Skyrim offers?  How sweet is ithat?!!

Skyrim having Several 100 hours of gameplay? i doubt it, ive capped out every faction with 120 hours played, only things left remaining are a few side quests. ( you probably could stretch the gameplay value out even more if you really wanted/tried)

Problem with sryim is content goes quicker the longer you have been playing; like more map fast travel nodes and clearing dungeons by 1 shotting enemies because of extensive perks.

 

Swtor; Im very doubtful they have as many hours of content they claim, And im definatly going to investigate that during the beta.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  arieste

Novice Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3301

11/22/11 10:48:58 AM#32
Originally posted by DeaconX

Some of you may recognize me (I've been absent for quite some time) as the guy who started the BioWare Star Wars MMO Facts & Rumors thread way back in 2006 I believe it was.  I followed the game, did some investigating, and overall just wasted a bunch of time delivering circumstantial evidence.  Well the long wait is finally over, and...

MY OVERALL RATING IS:  6.5/10

 
Getting Started: 10/10  - It's as straight forward and streamlined as can be.  There have been no issues 'getting started'
 
 
Server selection: 9/10  - This has gotten better over time - though I preferred the color bars that show how full a server is to just a word.
 
 
Character Creation: 4/10 - Is there one? Yeah sure.  Does it live up to expectations for an MMORPG launching in late 2011? Heck no.  It's actually one of the biggest disappointments.
 
-Body proportions are just awful for the most part, in my opinion.  You've got thin, average, football player, and 1 big mac away from a coronary.  What's wrong with sliders most modern MMORPG's use to define the body?
 
-Hair is atrocious.  There are maybe a handful of decent options.  Pick up a hairstyle magazine, choose some cool ones, get CREATIVE with it.  It's STAR WARS.  Simply uninspired and sloppy work - sorry to be so harsh but can anyone really defend it?
 
-Silly restrictions, such as only certain classes can have tattoos, piercings etc.
 
-Cybernetics are just a write off.  They look uncreative, poorly designed, slapped on and ugly.  Also, why the heck would cybernetics options add facial hair?  What if someone likes one of the options, but hates that stupid mustache it comes with -- for no reason.  Is it a cybernetic mustache?
 
I could go on but... to the rest of the review...
 
Quest intro: 6/10  - They aren't the most exciting but they're decently written enough.  I do think they could have been MUCH more engaging off the bad.  I know for certain that I could write a more exciting introduction for each class, so I was a bit sad to see how tame the writers went.  Like the opening scene in a movie, this should grab the player a lot more than it did.
 
 
Combat: 6/10 - It's a slight step forward from the standard mmo's of yesteryear.  Personally, if you want us to feel heroic and go with this combat system, I'd through about 3 times as many NPC's at the players but have weapons deal much more damage so it feels like you're plowing down the enemy and the only time you start feeling the panic is when you're truly outnumbered.  CC's already a big part of the game anyway.  Don't outnumber a player 3 to 1 and have them pretty much stand around spamming skills while enemies slowly go down.  Outnumber the player 5 to 1 with enemies dropping much quicker.  That would already make you feel like more of a badass.
 
Itemization: 6/10  - The FIRST item drop you get in game SHOULD be for your class.  Teach new players early about upgrading gear, get them excited and hooked to get more.  This never happened to me.  Also, a lot of the gear, especially starter gear, is pretty lame.  If I'm a havok trooper, shouldn't I get even a weaker set of armor out of the gate?  I looked like I was a mechanic or something.  Switching out one shirt of the same shirt with slightly different color isn't much fun either.  Appearance tab would greatly help here.
 
 
Inventory: 7/10  - I like how much space is given to the player and the fact that it's fairly easy to upgrade your inventory, however I do find the pricing is way too steep.  It goes from 5K for one row, to 20K for the next row? Ouch.
 
 
Character Sheet: 7/10  - It's functional even if a little clunky.  Nothing special really, but it serves it's purpose.
 
 
Movement: 6/10  - I find the characters run WAY too slow out of the gate, which isn't a lot of fun.  Until you get sprint.  JUMP is a little weak and could definitely use a bit of a boost.  There is no: Climbing, Swimming, Crawling etc, which all makes the world feel less real because we can't interact with it.  It's a bit of a shame but sadly standard mmo fare.  MMO designers could learn a little something from the platforming gameplay of the UNCHARTED series of games.
 
 
Zones: 5/10  - As many others have described including my friends, a lot of the time the zones feel like hallways.  Sometimes the hallway is a little thicker in places, but you pretty much always feel like you're in a contained, controlled environment.  This pretty much kills exploration for me.  It's missing the truly vast and interesting open world feeling.  Still, they're decently designed and the art direction of the environments is much better than they are for the characters.
 
 
Graphics in game: 6/10  - Artistic Direction for Characters is pretty uninspired.  Artistic direction for just about everything else is much better.  As far as textures, lighting, etc go, it's pretty standard when compared to any recent MMORPG.
 
 
Story Line/Voice overs: 9/10  - Stories are pretty decent - I think many people will be much more impressed them than I am.  Not to say I don't enjoy them, I just believe many of them could have been better written, including some of the dialogue such as:
 
NPC: "Do you know anything about those explosions we've been hearing?"
Player: "I don't know.  They must have been explosions."
 
 
The MAP: 5/10  - It's functional, but I find myself squinting sometimes.  The mini-map can be confusing when icons are really close to each other.  The main map only lets you select ONE search request at a time.  Trainer, Bank, etc.  Why is there no 'Show All' option?  Been asking for that for months.
 
 
Guild Options: 4/10  - Guild support is fairly weak at the moment.  Not a whole lot there yet but I'm sure it's coming.
 
 
Crafting: 6/10  - A lot of crafters are NOT going to be happy with this.  Personally, I've never been into crafting and SWTOR did not change that for me.  However, I do enjoy the companion missions and resource gathering more than in other MMO's for some reason.
 
 
Space: 5/10 - I see this space experience as 'Space Combat on Training Wheels.'  Hopefully, a robust space adventure system will come later on that ISN'T just single player, and allows players to join their friends aboard one ship, take control of blaster cannons while the pilot does their best to evade the enemy, perhaps there could be an engineering mini-game to fix shields up, etc.
 
 
Housing: 5/10  - The only housing in game right now is your ship, which also serves as your transportation of course.  There's no way to really make it your own, so really it's just a stage for certain cinematics, a crafting station and bank nearby.  It's a clever route to take with housing for now, however without any control over the look of your 'home', it feels lacking.  You also have no choice of your ship as it's class bound so if you don't like your class' ship, tough.
 
 
Summary of thoughts:  
As BioWare’s first MMO, I’m certain it will be a great success.  As a fan of Star Wars, BioWare and MMORPG’s, I find the game to be an odd mix of robust and lacking.  There is PLENTY of game content to keep players happy for a while, but the question is, what happens when the players have devoured that content?
 
MMO grinders will whip through the game – they always do.  There’s nothing so revolutionary about the game that will slow them.  The cinematic storytelling may cause a few players to slow down and enjoy the game but ultimately it’s more or less the same as any MMORPG.
 
When the powergamers are through with TOR, they will likely look for the next MMORPG and this is where I think BioWare may have fallen short on the design and I hope they prove me wrong.
 
An audience I don’t think they paid much attention to (perhaps for short term business reasons) are the players who are really looking for extended Star Wars escapism.  That would be your role players, your communities who want to build cities and big guild empires together – I know I know, this isn’t SWG.  That’s all well and good – but it also doesn’t cater to those fans who WANT that kind of immersion.
 
Character creation is important to many people, not just role players.  Sadly, it’s lacking.  Powergamers won’t have an issue with that as they don’t get attached to their characters for the most part aside from how ‘leet’ they are.
There’s very little control over appearance once you’re in the game – something I hear BioWare is working on so we’ll get an appearance tab.  That will help – a lot.
 
There’s VERY little incentive or even ability for people to form in game relationships and build communities.  Guild system is very basic.  You’ve got your friends list.  Your player home is a ship that you can’t customize in any way.  You cannot ‘MOVE IN’ to this Star Wars universe in its current state and that’s something I hope they address.  Give us a galaxy we can move into and I promise you, we WILL and we’ll stick around a LOT longer than people who want to just consume content, play some PVP then move on to the next hot game.
 
Perhaps BioWare was so focused on controlling the player experience to maximize ‘fun’ they missed the point of how much fun it is for the players to have some degree of freedom and control over their game experience.
In closing, I believe BioWare still has their work cut out for them if they hope to retain people over the long haul but they will have a great launch.
 
 
 
Thank you for reading - please feel free to ask any questions.

Good write-up.  One of the best reviews I've read. Thanks.

 

Only thing I wonder about is this - you say you weren't impressed wtih the storyline, yet you still rank it 9/10.  I find myself in the same boat, i'm not at all impressed with the quality of the writing, but the vast majority of people seem to think it's "amazing"... maybe it's because they've only played MMOs with really bad writing before...

"I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

- Raph Koster

Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2
Currently Playing: EQ2, NW, Firefall
Do you miss SWG crafting? Check out Firefall's system!

  SirBalin

Warmonger

Joined: 11/22/06
Posts: 1009

11/22/11 10:49:09 AM#33
Originally posted by DeaconX

Some of you may recognize me (I've been absent for quite some time) as the guy who started the BioWare Star Wars MMO Facts & Rumors thread way back in 2006 I believe it was.  I followed the game, did some investigating, and overall just wasted a bunch of time delivering circumstantial evidence.  Well the long wait is finally over, and...

MY OVERALL RATING IS:  6.5/10

 
Getting Started: 10/10  - It's as straight forward and streamlined as can be.  There have been no issues 'getting started'
 
 
Server selection: 9/10  - This has gotten better over time - though I preferred the color bars that show how full a server is to just a word.
 
 
Character Creation: 4/10 - Is there one? Yeah sure.  Does it live up to expectations for an MMORPG launching in late 2011? Heck no.  It's actually one of the biggest disappointments.
 
-Body proportions are just awful for the most part, in my opinion.  You've got thin, average, football player, and 1 big mac away from a coronary.  What's wrong with sliders most modern MMORPG's use to define the body?
 
-Hair is atrocious.  There are maybe a handful of decent options.  Pick up a hairstyle magazine, choose some cool ones, get CREATIVE with it.  It's STAR WARS.  Simply uninspired and sloppy work - sorry to be so harsh but can anyone really defend it?
 
-Silly restrictions, such as only certain classes can have tattoos, piercings etc.
 
-Cybernetics are just a write off.  They look uncreative, poorly designed, slapped on and ugly.  Also, why the heck would cybernetics options add facial hair?  What if someone likes one of the options, but hates that stupid mustache it comes with -- for no reason.  Is it a cybernetic mustache?
 
I could go on but... to the rest of the review...
 
Quest intro: 6/10  - They aren't the most exciting but they're decently written enough.  I do think they could have been MUCH more engaging off the bad.  I know for certain that I could write a more exciting introduction for each class, so I was a bit sad to see how tame the writers went.  Like the opening scene in a movie, this should grab the player a lot more than it did.
 
 
Combat: 6/10 - It's a slight step forward from the standard mmo's of yesteryear.  Personally, if you want us to feel heroic and go with this combat system, I'd through about 3 times as many NPC's at the players but have weapons deal much more damage so it feels like you're plowing down the enemy and the only time you start feeling the panic is when you're truly outnumbered.  CC's already a big part of the game anyway.  Don't outnumber a player 3 to 1 and have them pretty much stand around spamming skills while enemies slowly go down.  Outnumber the player 5 to 1 with enemies dropping much quicker.  That would already make you feel like more of a badass.
 
Itemization: 6/10  - The FIRST item drop you get in game SHOULD be for your class.  Teach new players early about upgrading gear, get them excited and hooked to get more.  This never happened to me.  Also, a lot of the gear, especially starter gear, is pretty lame.  If I'm a havok trooper, shouldn't I get even a weaker set of armor out of the gate?  I looked like I was a mechanic or something.  Switching out one shirt of the same shirt with slightly different color isn't much fun either.  Appearance tab would greatly help here.
 
 
Inventory: 7/10  - I like how much space is given to the player and the fact that it's fairly easy to upgrade your inventory, however I do find the pricing is way too steep.  It goes from 5K for one row, to 20K for the next row? Ouch.
 
 
Character Sheet: 7/10  - It's functional even if a little clunky.  Nothing special really, but it serves it's purpose.
 
 
Movement: 6/10  - I find the characters run WAY too slow out of the gate, which isn't a lot of fun.  Until you get sprint.  JUMP is a little weak and could definitely use a bit of a boost.  There is no: Climbing, Swimming, Crawling etc, which all makes the world feel less real because we can't interact with it.  It's a bit of a shame but sadly standard mmo fare.  MMO designers could learn a little something from the platforming gameplay of the UNCHARTED series of games.
 
 
Zones: 5/10  - As many others have described including my friends, a lot of the time the zones feel like hallways.  Sometimes the hallway is a little thicker in places, but you pretty much always feel like you're in a contained, controlled environment.  This pretty much kills exploration for me.  It's missing the truly vast and interesting open world feeling.  Still, they're decently designed and the art direction of the environments is much better than they are for the characters.
 
 
Graphics in game: 6/10  - Artistic Direction for Characters is pretty uninspired.  Artistic direction for just about everything else is much better.  As far as textures, lighting, etc go, it's pretty standard when compared to any recent MMORPG.
 
 
Story Line/Voice overs: 9/10  - Stories are pretty decent - I think many people will be much more impressed them than I am.  Not to say I don't enjoy them, I just believe many of them could have been better written, including some of the dialogue such as:
 
NPC: "Do you know anything about those explosions we've been hearing?"
Player: "I don't know.  They must have been explosions."
 
 
The MAP: 5/10  - It's functional, but I find myself squinting sometimes.  The mini-map can be confusing when icons are really close to each other.  The main map only lets you select ONE search request at a time.  Trainer, Bank, etc.  Why is there no 'Show All' option?  Been asking for that for months.
 
 
Guild Options: 4/10  - Guild support is fairly weak at the moment.  Not a whole lot there yet but I'm sure it's coming.
 
 
Crafting: 6/10  - A lot of crafters are NOT going to be happy with this.  Personally, I've never been into crafting and SWTOR did not change that for me.  However, I do enjoy the companion missions and resource gathering more than in other MMO's for some reason.
 
 
Space: 5/10 - I see this space experience as 'Space Combat on Training Wheels.'  Hopefully, a robust space adventure system will come later on that ISN'T just single player, and allows players to join their friends aboard one ship, take control of blaster cannons while the pilot does their best to evade the enemy, perhaps there could be an engineering mini-game to fix shields up, etc.
 
 
Housing: 5/10  - The only housing in game right now is your ship, which also serves as your transportation of course.  There's no way to really make it your own, so really it's just a stage for certain cinematics, a crafting station and bank nearby.  It's a clever route to take with housing for now, however without any control over the look of your 'home', it feels lacking.  You also have no choice of your ship as it's class bound so if you don't like your class' ship, tough.
 
 
Summary of thoughts:  
As BioWare’s first MMO, I’m certain it will be a great success.  As a fan of Star Wars, BioWare and MMORPG’s, I find the game to be an odd mix of robust and lacking.  There is PLENTY of game content to keep players happy for a while, but the question is, what happens when the players have devoured that content?
 
MMO grinders will whip through the game – they always do.  There’s nothing so revolutionary about the game that will slow them.  The cinematic storytelling may cause a few players to slow down and enjoy the game but ultimately it’s more or less the same as any MMORPG.
 
When the powergamers are through with TOR, they will likely look for the next MMORPG and this is where I think BioWare may have fallen short on the design and I hope they prove me wrong.
 
An audience I don’t think they paid much attention to (perhaps for short term business reasons) are the players who are really looking for extended Star Wars escapism.  That would be your role players, your communities who want to build cities and big guild empires together – I know I know, this isn’t SWG.  That’s all well and good – but it also doesn’t cater to those fans who WANT that kind of immersion.
 
Character creation is important to many people, not just role players.  Sadly, it’s lacking.  Powergamers won’t have an issue with that as they don’t get attached to their characters for the most part aside from how ‘leet’ they are.
There’s very little control over appearance once you’re in the game – something I hear BioWare is working on so we’ll get an appearance tab.  That will help – a lot.
 
There’s VERY little incentive or even ability for people to form in game relationships and build communities.  Guild system is very basic.  You’ve got your friends list.  Your player home is a ship that you can’t customize in any way.  You cannot ‘MOVE IN’ to this Star Wars universe in its current state and that’s something I hope they address.  Give us a galaxy we can move into and I promise you, we WILL and we’ll stick around a LOT longer than people who want to just consume content, play some PVP then move on to the next hot game.
 
Perhaps BioWare was so focused on controlling the player experience to maximize ‘fun’ they missed the point of how much fun it is for the players to have some degree of freedom and control over their game experience.
In closing, I believe BioWare still has their work cut out for them if they hope to retain people over the long haul but they will have a great launch.
 
 
 
Thank you for reading - please feel free to ask any questions.

Yes, yes and yes...perfect review.

Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"

  Anastazious

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/31/07
Posts: 19

11/22/11 10:50:21 AM#34

I have been testing a few months now across a few builds and this is not some groundbreaking game. Its the same old same old with more cutscenes than normal. Do not tell that to the fanbois who will defend this till death.

 

Its an OK game at best and will keep my attention for a few months at least.

 

 

  czekoskwigel

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/22/11
Posts: 488

Some flies are too awesome for the wall.

11/22/11 10:51:38 AM#35
Originally posted by arieste
Originally posted by DeaconX

Some of you may recognize me (I've been absent for quite some time) as the guy who started the BioWare Star Wars MMO Facts & Rumors thread way back in 2006 I believe it was.  I followed the game, did some investigating, and overall just wasted a bunch of time delivering circumstantial evidence.  Well the long wait is finally over, and...

MY OVERALL RATING IS:  6.5/10

 
Getting Started: 10/10  - It's as straight forward and streamlined as can be.  There have been no issues 'getting started'
 
 
Server selection: 9/10  - This has gotten better over time - though I preferred the color bars that show how full a server is to just a word.
 
 
Character Creation: 4/10 - Is there one? Yeah sure.  Does it live up to expectations for an MMORPG launching in late 2011? Heck no.  It's actually one of the biggest disappointments.
 
-Body proportions are just awful for the most part, in my opinion.  You've got thin, average, football player, and 1 big mac away from a coronary.  What's wrong with sliders most modern MMORPG's use to define the body?
 
-Hair is atrocious.  There are maybe a handful of decent options.  Pick up a hairstyle magazine, choose some cool ones, get CREATIVE with it.  It's STAR WARS.  Simply uninspired and sloppy work - sorry to be so harsh but can anyone really defend it?
 
-Silly restrictions, such as only certain classes can have tattoos, piercings etc.
 
-Cybernetics are just a write off.  They look uncreative, poorly designed, slapped on and ugly.  Also, why the heck would cybernetics options add facial hair?  What if someone likes one of the options, but hates that stupid mustache it comes with -- for no reason.  Is it a cybernetic mustache?
 
I could go on but... to the rest of the review...
 
Quest intro: 6/10  - They aren't the most exciting but they're decently written enough.  I do think they could have been MUCH more engaging off the bad.  I know for certain that I could write a more exciting introduction for each class, so I was a bit sad to see how tame the writers went.  Like the opening scene in a movie, this should grab the player a lot more than it did.
 
 
Combat: 6/10 - It's a slight step forward from the standard mmo's of yesteryear.  Personally, if you want us to feel heroic and go with this combat system, I'd through about 3 times as many NPC's at the players but have weapons deal much more damage so it feels like you're plowing down the enemy and the only time you start feeling the panic is when you're truly outnumbered.  CC's already a big part of the game anyway.  Don't outnumber a player 3 to 1 and have them pretty much stand around spamming skills while enemies slowly go down.  Outnumber the player 5 to 1 with enemies dropping much quicker.  That would already make you feel like more of a badass.
 
Itemization: 6/10  - The FIRST item drop you get in game SHOULD be for your class.  Teach new players early about upgrading gear, get them excited and hooked to get more.  This never happened to me.  Also, a lot of the gear, especially starter gear, is pretty lame.  If I'm a havok trooper, shouldn't I get even a weaker set of armor out of the gate?  I looked like I was a mechanic or something.  Switching out one shirt of the same shirt with slightly different color isn't much fun either.  Appearance tab would greatly help here.
 
 
Inventory: 7/10  - I like how much space is given to the player and the fact that it's fairly easy to upgrade your inventory, however I do find the pricing is way too steep.  It goes from 5K for one row, to 20K for the next row? Ouch.
 
 
Character Sheet: 7/10  - It's functional even if a little clunky.  Nothing special really, but it serves it's purpose.
 
 
Movement: 6/10  - I find the characters run WAY too slow out of the gate, which isn't a lot of fun.  Until you get sprint.  JUMP is a little weak and could definitely use a bit of a boost.  There is no: Climbing, Swimming, Crawling etc, which all makes the world feel less real because we can't interact with it.  It's a bit of a shame but sadly standard mmo fare.  MMO designers could learn a little something from the platforming gameplay of the UNCHARTED series of games.
 
 
Zones: 5/10  - As many others have described including my friends, a lot of the time the zones feel like hallways.  Sometimes the hallway is a little thicker in places, but you pretty much always feel like you're in a contained, controlled environment.  This pretty much kills exploration for me.  It's missing the truly vast and interesting open world feeling.  Still, they're decently designed and the art direction of the environments is much better than they are for the characters.
 
 
Graphics in game: 6/10  - Artistic Direction for Characters is pretty uninspired.  Artistic direction for just about everything else is much better.  As far as textures, lighting, etc go, it's pretty standard when compared to any recent MMORPG.
 
 
Story Line/Voice overs: 9/10  - Stories are pretty decent - I think many people will be much more impressed them than I am.  Not to say I don't enjoy them, I just believe many of them could have been better written, including some of the dialogue such as:
 
NPC: "Do you know anything about those explosions we've been hearing?"
Player: "I don't know.  They must have been explosions."
 
 
The MAP: 5/10  - It's functional, but I find myself squinting sometimes.  The mini-map can be confusing when icons are really close to each other.  The main map only lets you select ONE search request at a time.  Trainer, Bank, etc.  Why is there no 'Show All' option?  Been asking for that for months.
 
 
Guild Options: 4/10  - Guild support is fairly weak at the moment.  Not a whole lot there yet but I'm sure it's coming.
 
 
Crafting: 6/10  - A lot of crafters are NOT going to be happy with this.  Personally, I've never been into crafting and SWTOR did not change that for me.  However, I do enjoy the companion missions and resource gathering more than in other MMO's for some reason.
 
 
Space: 5/10 - I see this space experience as 'Space Combat on Training Wheels.'  Hopefully, a robust space adventure system will come later on that ISN'T just single player, and allows players to join their friends aboard one ship, take control of blaster cannons while the pilot does their best to evade the enemy, perhaps there could be an engineering mini-game to fix shields up, etc.
 
 
Housing: 5/10  - The only housing in game right now is your ship, which also serves as your transportation of course.  There's no way to really make it your own, so really it's just a stage for certain cinematics, a crafting station and bank nearby.  It's a clever route to take with housing for now, however without any control over the look of your 'home', it feels lacking.  You also have no choice of your ship as it's class bound so if you don't like your class' ship, tough.
 
 
Summary of thoughts:  
As BioWare’s first MMO, I’m certain it will be a great success.  As a fan of Star Wars, BioWare and MMORPG’s, I find the game to be an odd mix of robust and lacking.  There is PLENTY of game content to keep players happy for a while, but the question is, what happens when the players have devoured that content?
 
MMO grinders will whip through the game – they always do.  There’s nothing so revolutionary about the game that will slow them.  The cinematic storytelling may cause a few players to slow down and enjoy the game but ultimately it’s more or less the same as any MMORPG.
 
When the powergamers are through with TOR, they will likely look for the next MMORPG and this is where I think BioWare may have fallen short on the design and I hope they prove me wrong.
 
An audience I don’t think they paid much attention to (perhaps for short term business reasons) are the players who are really looking for extended Star Wars escapism.  That would be your role players, your communities who want to build cities and big guild empires together – I know I know, this isn’t SWG.  That’s all well and good – but it also doesn’t cater to those fans who WANT that kind of immersion.
 
Character creation is important to many people, not just role players.  Sadly, it’s lacking.  Powergamers won’t have an issue with that as they don’t get attached to their characters for the most part aside from how ‘leet’ they are.
There’s very little control over appearance once you’re in the game – something I hear BioWare is working on so we’ll get an appearance tab.  That will help – a lot.
 
There’s VERY little incentive or even ability for people to form in game relationships and build communities.  Guild system is very basic.  You’ve got your friends list.  Your player home is a ship that you can’t customize in any way.  You cannot ‘MOVE IN’ to this Star Wars universe in its current state and that’s something I hope they address.  Give us a galaxy we can move into and I promise you, we WILL and we’ll stick around a LOT longer than people who want to just consume content, play some PVP then move on to the next hot game.
 
Perhaps BioWare was so focused on controlling the player experience to maximize ‘fun’ they missed the point of how much fun it is for the players to have some degree of freedom and control over their game experience.
In closing, I believe BioWare still has their work cut out for them if they hope to retain people over the long haul but they will have a great launch.
 
 
 
Thank you for reading - please feel free to ask any questions.

Good write-up.  One of the best reviews I've read. Thanks.

 

Only thing I wonder about is this - you say you weren't impressed wtih the storyline, yet you still rank it 9/10.  I find myself in the same boat, i'm not at all impressed with the quality of the writing, but the vast majority of people seem to think it's "amazing"... maybe it's because they've only played MMOs with really bad writing before...

or maybe people just have different tastes than you?  You see, just because you don't like something, that doesn't mean that it's "bad".  I know, a  tough lesson to learn, but someday you'll get it.

  kwai

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/27/04
Posts: 842

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti.

11/22/11 10:51:42 AM#36
Originally posted by Supersoups
Originally posted by kwai
Originally posted by TJixlee

jesus christ go rate vanilla WoW. i tested the game as long as you have. and WHOA YOUR NEGATIVE hope i dont see you at launch. this is NOT for you

 

You wan't a themepark mmo ?,  go play rift , wow,  aoc or any of the other so called mmo's where everything dies out after a while.

I very much doubt you have been in SW:ToR for 5 months.

 

SW:ToR in its current state is not even fucking ready for launch, so many bugs early on in the game that outright destroys things for people trying to follow a certain path, if you knew about things like this you wouldn't even open up your mouth and start spewing shit you don't know shit about.

 

nuff said. 

Game breaking bugs in SWTOR? for real? if you are going to lie atleast make it believable one. I have been testing SWTOR for 6 months now and it is not bugged to extent where it could be considered 'not ready' for launch. I call bull*** on 'so many bugs' early on in game comment.

 

Okay let me just point one thing out for you, since you clearly don't know shit about it.

 

The main storyline quest for the BH Class becomes bugged early on, as early as the quest called A musty trail, after i had created my BH alt sometime ago and finally gave it room to play, i found out when you are given a option to either kill Lady Dak-ah or Lord Dak-Ah , whichever i choose , characters stayed green, nothing happened, the only option that actually worked and would let me progress in the game, was the light side option to freeze him and have him transported home, now when your playing as Empire and your going the dark side way, that kinda limits you a little since your forced to build up light points, and this is not the only quest where this was bugged, i even had the mission reset like 7 times over the progress of 2 days, in the end i was forced to go with the light side option, game breaking ? , yes ALOT to some people if they try to follow a certain storyline.

 

Clearly you haven't tested enough.

  dougmysticey

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/06
Posts: 1182

11/22/11 10:52:14 AM#37
Originally posted by Redemp
Originally posted by skeaser

So the zones never open up? I'd only managed to finish the first 2 planets last weekend and was hoping things would open up later, I guessed that's why you couldn't get a bike until higher level. This bums me out, I need to EXPLORE!

 I've heard from many people, who state the game opens up completely once you reach the mid -  higher levels. I've never experienced the game yet, so take the information for what you will.

 I've also heard that the linear focus you are put threw at lower levels is no more felt than that of most themeparks, one friend even went so far to state it was nothing as blatantly linear as Rift quest hub hopping. Which might just be opinion on his part, but I'm hoping that I never again feel the linear push that Rift generated.

Man, I thought Coroscunt (sp?) was HUGE. Granted, you have to taxi to various areas but each area was massive though at times it did feel like a bit of a guided tour. I did not get much past that planet but it does appear to open up as you go.

 

On the general review...I think it was well written and I appreicate the good write up but felt the score was a little harsh in some areas. The overall game score for me so far is at least an 8/10 when I consider the game all up, even its MMO components. PVP is also very, very fun. Equally fun to the story elements.

  MMO.Maverick

Inquisitor

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 7792

The middle road is the place to be!

11/22/11 10:56:29 AM#38
Originally posted by arieste

Only thing I wonder about is this - you say you weren't impressed wtih the storyline, yet you still rank it 9/10.  I find myself in the same boat, i'm not at all impressed with the quality of the writing, but the vast majority of people seem to think it's "amazing"... maybe it's because they've only played MMOs with really bad writing before...

Most MMO's don't have any storytelling to speak of at all, I don't know what MMO's you're referring to. Besides, didn't you only explore one storyline for the first 15 levels or so? I'm not saying that this makes your impression of that time less valid, only I have heard a lot of people say otherwise, so it's either a difference of taste or you had a storyline that just wasn't appealing for you where other class storylines might.

 

Originally posted by afhn2110

Yes, yes and yes...perfect review.


Lol. You people are just too funny, goddamn hilarious even

 

Originally posted by kwai
and this is not the only quest where this was bugged, i even had the mission reset like 7 times over the progress of 2 days, in the end i was forced to go with the light side option, game breaking ? , yes ALOT to some people if they try to follow a certain storyline.

 Clearly you haven't tested enough.

I agree, if it happened like you said it did then it is indeed gamebreaking. But when exactly was this that you tested? Would be interesting to see if those bugs you mentioned are still ingame next weekend with the most recent build.

The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  kwai

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/27/04
Posts: 842

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti.

11/22/11 10:56:36 AM#39
Originally posted by Anastazious

I have been testing a few months now across a few builds and this is not some groundbreaking game. Its the same old same old with more cutscenes than normal. Do not tell that to the fanbois who will defend this till death.

 

Its an OK game at best and will keep my attention for a few months at least.

 

 

+1

 

Pretty much agree with this statement

  Supersoups

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1062

11/22/11 10:56:40 AM#40
Originally posted by kwai
Originally posted by Supersoups
Originally posted by kwai
Originally posted by TJixlee

jesus christ go rate vanilla WoW. i tested the game as long as you have. and WHOA YOUR NEGATIVE hope i dont see you at launch. this is NOT for you

 

You wan't a themepark mmo ?,  go play rift , wow,  aoc or any of the other so called mmo's where everything dies out after a while.

I very much doubt you have been in SW:ToR for 5 months.

 

SW:ToR in its current state is not even fucking ready for launch, so many bugs early on in the game that outright destroys things for people trying to follow a certain path, if you knew about things like this you wouldn't even open up your mouth and start spewing shit you don't know shit about.

 

nuff said. 

Game breaking bugs in SWTOR? for real? if you are going to lie atleast make it believable one. I have been testing SWTOR for 6 months now and it is not bugged to extent where it could be considered 'not ready' for launch. I call bull*** on 'so many bugs' early on in game comment.

 

Okay let me just point one thing out for you, since you clearly don't know shit about it.

 

The main storyline quest for the BH Class becomes bugged early on, as early as the quest called A musty trail, after i had created my BH alt sometime ago and finally gave it room to play, i found out when you are given a option to either kill Lady Dak-ah or Lord Dak-Ah , whichever i choose , characters stayed green, nothing happened, the only option that actually worked and would let me progress in the game, was the light side option to freeze him and have him transported home, now when your playing as Empire and your going the dark side way, that kinda limits you a little since your forced to build up light points, and this is not the only quest where this was bugged, i even had the mission reset like 7 times over the progress of 2 days, in the end i was forced to go with the light side option, game breaking ? , yes ALOT to some people if they try to follow a certain storyline.

 

Clearly you haven't tested enough.

Okay so you were expecting not evena single bug in beta of MMO?  lets say i give you benefit of doubt, how does that one experince makes you arrive to a conclusions that game is so broken that it is not ready for launch? infact SWTOR has the fewest bugs i have come across, hell even Rift had more bugs to squash during beta and it had the smoothest launch since LOTRO.

So yeah i still call bullshit on not ready to launch statement since SWTOR is already a very stable game with minimum of bugs and runs great. Talk about over exaggeration and over blowing the whole 'broken storyline' bug.

By the way that is what beta is for, found something not working? report it. I played BH too and never came across this problem. Ever wondered that it was fixed or you are expecting things to stay the same till launch?

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