Trending Games | Elder Scrolls Online | WildStar | Star Wars: The Old Republic | Heroes of the Storm

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,643,633 Users Online:0
Games:681  Posts:6,077,343
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Everquest Next: Landmark Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » Another game trying the level-less design

7 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Search
135 posts found
  MMO.Maverick

Inquisitor

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 7792

The middle road is the place to be!

11/04/11 8:16:21 AM#121
Originally posted by fallenlords

  All to my mind

/thread

 

It's obvious that you have a way of looking at stuff with your own viewpoint and use of terminology that isn't conform  the general usage of those terms and general opinion. Also it's quite clear that you have a thing against Funcom and as a result against AoC and TSW, hence that you keep repeating your 'terminology' over and over and over again.

I think you've explained your viewpoint in 10+ posts now, while to most it was already clear after the third time. People won't convince you of the incorrectness - or your 'highly individualised interpretation' - of broadly used MMO terms, and neither will you convince people that how MMO terms have been used by the industry and MMO player base in general is wrong. The only thing that you might convince people of is that you have a strong dislike of Funcom, their game design and their games

But go ahead, parrot your same opinion for an 11th, or 12th and 13th post, like a broken record, as if the former 10 weren't clear.

 

Originally posted by graham187

And I couldn't be happier. I loved the design of Ultima Online and believe the level-less design is the best way a person can get lost in their character. In UO over 5 years I had the same character redesigned at least 50x, and it was possible because the mechanics of the game would let you change your class as much often as you desired. No level up needed, just grab some new skills and make the character what you wanted it to be without many constraints.

For this reason I am excited to see what The Secret World has to offer. I am so hopeful the game is character driven and not gear driven like so many of the offerings since the original inception of UO. I have never seen classless design done as well as the MMO that defined what massively multiplayer was all about; hopefully TSW can capture what Origin figured out from the beginning.

Before this thread was hijacked (again) by a neverending discussion with Fallenlords, this was I think the OP's topic.

 

While I think that it depends from one person to the next whether they get lost in their character more in a level-less design, I agree that it'll be interesting to see how it'll work out, and it's certainly different from most current MMO's.

I think that UO and TSW are two very different games, but it's good to see that MMO companies are trying different approaches to features than the current standard set and ways.

The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  fallenlords

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

11/04/11 3:12:13 PM#122
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
Originally posted by fallenlords

  All to my mind

/thread

 

It's obvious that you have a way of looking at stuff with your own viewpoint and use of terminology that isn't conform  the general usage of those terms and general opinion. Also it's quite clear that you have a thing against Funcom and as a result against AoC and TSW, hence that you keep repeating your 'terminology' over and over and over again.

I think you've explained your viewpoint in 10+ posts now, while to most it was already clear after the third time. People won't convince you of the incorrectness - or your 'highly individualised interpretation' - of broadly used MMO terms, and neither will you convince people that how MMO terms have been used by the industry and MMO player base in general is wrong. The only thing that you might convince people of is that you have a strong dislike of Funcom, their game design and their games

But go ahead, parrot your same opinion for an 11th, or 12th and 13th post, like a broken record, as if the former 10 weren't clear.

 

I think that it's convenient for people to hide behind terminology. Just because something is a popular belief doesn't make it true.   You will be telling me next the sky in Ancient Greece was blue, that Nero fiddled while Rome burned, frogs make a ribbit noise and a centipede has a 100 legs.  All of which I use as commonly held beliefs that are just wrong.  AOC is not an MMO the world is instanced to the hilt, though AOC is an RPG.  Just because terms are being used incorrectly doesn't mean I should just accept them. Though I do appreciate how annoying I can be,  but then people tend for the most to focus on the terminology.  Rather than argue AOC is an MMO because, we have the industry calls it an MMO so it's an MMO sort of approach.  All hail to the industry, not like they would ever lead any of us astray. I mean it's not like they are actually trying to sell us something in most instances.

  MMO.Maverick

Inquisitor

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 7792

The middle road is the place to be!

11/05/11 4:28:19 AM#123
Originally posted by fallenlords
Rather than argue AOC is an MMO because, we have the industry calls it an MMO so it's an MMO sort of approach.  All hail to the industry, not like they would ever lead any of us astray. I mean it's not like they are actually trying to sell us something in most instances.

It's not just the industry. Ask 1000 MMO gamers objective enough to look at things without emotional bias whether AoC is an MMORPG or not. 999 will say 'yes, it is'. Only you (and people like you) will say it's not for own personal reasons and grievances, that's telling enough.

 

And you've derailed the thread from OP's topic enough, I think, with your own personal soapbox.

The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  fallenlords

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

11/05/11 6:57:01 AM#124
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

It's not just the industry. Ask 1000 MMO gamers objective enough to look at things without emotional bias whether AoC is an MMORPG or not. 999 will say 'yes, it is'. Only you (and people like you) will say it's not for own personal reasons and grievances, that's telling enough.

 

And you've derailed the thread from OP's topic enough, I think, with your own personal soapbox.

I like it when people pull stats out of nowhere.   Well I reckon, making up my own, if you ask 1000 ex AOC players if AOC is an MMO and they will so no.  It's too instanced to be an MMO, the massively multiplayer aspects hardly worked (things like sieges).  You might call it an MMO for want of a better term, but there is no open world, just instanced regions. 

 

Fair enough I agree the thread has been derailed.  But if people are not hiding behind terminology they hide behind other smoke screens, like made up stats .

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9953

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

11/05/11 8:03:12 AM#125


Originally posted by fallenlords


Originally posted by MMO.Maverick


Originally posted by fallenlords


  All to my mind


/thread
 
It's obvious that you have a way of looking at stuff with your own viewpoint and use of terminology that isn't conform  the general usage of those terms and general opinion. Also it's quite clear that you have a thing against Funcom and as a result against AoC and TSW, hence that you keep repeating your 'terminology' over and over and over again.
I think you've explained your viewpoint in 10+ posts now, while to most it was already clear after the third time. People won't convince you of the incorrectness - or your 'highly individualised interpretation' - of broadly used MMO terms, and neither will you convince people that how MMO terms have been used by the industry and MMO player base in general is wrong. The only thing that you might convince people of is that you have a strong dislike of Funcom, their game design and their games
But go ahead, parrot your same opinion for an 11th, or 12th and 13th post, like a broken record, as if the former 10 weren't clear.
 


I think that it's convenient for people to hide behind terminology. Just because something is a popular belief doesn't make it true.   You will be telling me next the sky in Ancient Greece was blue, that Nero fiddled while Rome burned, frogs make a ribbit noise and a centipede has a 100 legs.  All of which I use as commonly held beliefs that are just wrong.  AOC is not an MMO the world is instanced to the hilt, though AOC is an RPG.  Just because terms are being used incorrectly doesn't mean I should just accept them. Though I do appreciate how annoying I can be,  but then people tend for the most to focus on the terminology.  Rather than argue AOC is an MMO because, we have the industry calls it an MMO so it's an MMO sort of approach.  All hail to the industry, not like they would ever lead any of us astray. I mean it's not like they are actually trying to sell us something in most instances.



If you were talking about something that existed in nature and wasn't 100% made up by humans, you would have a point. Since mmorpg are 100% human created from scratch, what more than 90% of the population accepts as the definition is the definition. This applies to the different types of progression the same way it applies to the definition of an out of bounds ball in soccer.

AoC is an MMORPG because more than 90%* of the general population says it is. Diablo III is not an MMORPG because less than 10% of the population accepts that it is. TSW has skill based progression without levels because more than 90% of the population looks at TSW and what they've done and says to themselves, "That's skill based progression without levels."

Shenanigans, thy name is fallenlords.

* As an interesting side note, if you could convince as little as 10% of the population that you were correct in what you're saying, then your views would be quickly adopted by more of the general population.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110725190044.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily+%28ScienceDaily%3A+Latest+Science+News%29

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Deddmeat

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 151

Not sure how I got K.A.E.S last PvP was CoD and UO lol

11/05/11 8:17:10 AM#126

Take a look at UO, Anarchy Online, Eve Online .. 

You choose what skills to raise, how many points to spend etc .. sure you can spend ages building the character up ... in effect levelling it up you can say .. but there are no levels to compare with, no lfg lvl14 only etc

You might have a character exactly the same class, better gear but less effective due to skills chosen and where, how you spent points etc .. it's more planning, you think more about what your doing, at least people 'should' think more about what they are doing.  

Unfortunately certain people tend to not bother reading anything, immediately jump into playing, not think about what they are doing, never follow advice when they ask and get replies etc .. then moan constantly on the forum because they never bothered looking on it up until they'd done the above.

 

  fallenlords

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

11/05/11 3:27:17 PM#127
Originally posted by lizardbones


If you were talking about something that existed in nature and wasn't 100% made up by humans, you would have a point. Since mmorpg are 100% human created from scratch, what more than 90% of the population accepts as the definition is the definition. This applies to the different types of progression the same way it applies to the definition of an out of bounds ball in soccer.

AoC is an MMORPG because more than 90%* of the general population says it is. Diablo III is not an MMORPG because less than 10% of the population accepts that it is. TSW has skill based progression without levels because more than 90% of the population looks at TSW and what they've done and says to themselves, "That's skill based progression without levels."

Shenanigans, thy name is fallenlords.

* As an interesting side note, if you could convince as little as 10% of the population that you were correct in what you're saying, then your views would be quickly adopted by more of the general population.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110725190044.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily+%28ScienceDaily%3A+Latest+Science+News%29

 

We ought to have a theology debate then, by your definition we may even to able to prove the existence of God. AOC is is classified as an MMORPG because nobody has challenged that it isn't, nobody has said 'hold on that term doesn't quite fit'.  With generalised terms you can apply terms to anything.   Also depends a lot on your frame of reference if you have only played AOC, then it may appear to be an MMO for that reference point.   But once you play other games classed as MMO in nature you may be able to see the differences.   The majority of the population thought the world was flat at one point, the majority of the population were wrong.  Frame of reference, available information, all go to shaping generalised views.

  fallenlords

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

11/05/11 3:57:14 PM#128
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Nonsense. You might hate and bash on AoC and FC all you like, but as a rule most people aren't that delusional to think that an MMORPG isn't an MMORPG just because they hated it. EQ didn't have an open world, it was zoned and still it was an MMORPG. Aion uses instances (channels) and segmented zones as well, yet not a soul - except for maybe a few far out ones - thinks that it's not an MMORPG.

We could hold the poll right here and on other sites, if it wasn't that stupid to ask a question like that. Every single gaming site considers AoC an MMORPG, MMO gamers all around consider AoC an MMORPG, only you do not (and maybe a few  people like you).

Look, this is going nowhere and frankly this whole petty neverending anti FC/AoC/TSW Don Quichote crusade of yours, it's getting annoying.

This whole thread derailing you've been doing yet once again for your own personal soapboxes is irritating as hell, so I'm going to leave it at this. I suggest you stop abusing and derailing this thread for personal convenience any further as well

I never hated AOC, people misinterpret this all the time.  I hate the fact Funcom took a good game like AOC and didn't realise it's potential.   That is quite different.

 

Well if you are so concerned about this thread going off topic or derailing then bring it back on topic, rather than replying to me which then forces me 'out of politeness' to reply to you.

  loradove

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 62

11/05/11 5:57:01 PM#129

This thread has gotten off topic several times, let's focus on what the OP mentioned.

  Nipashnaka

Novice Member

Joined: 9/01/09
Posts: 170

11/17/11 4:25:03 PM#130
Originally posted by fallenlords
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
Originally posted by fallenlords

  All to my mind

/thread

 

It's obvious that you have a way of looking at stuff with your own viewpoint and use of terminology that isn't conform  the general usage of those terms and general opinion. Also it's quite clear that you have a thing against Funcom and as a result against AoC and TSW, hence that you keep repeating your 'terminology' over and over and over again.

I think you've explained your viewpoint in 10+ posts now, while to most it was already clear after the third time. People won't convince you of the incorrectness - or your 'highly individualised interpretation' - of broadly used MMO terms, and neither will you convince people that how MMO terms have been used by the industry and MMO player base in general is wrong. The only thing that you might convince people of is that you have a strong dislike of Funcom, their game design and their games

But go ahead, parrot your same opinion for an 11th, or 12th and 13th post, like a broken record, as if the former 10 weren't clear.

 

I think that it's convenient for people to hide behind terminology. Just because something is a popular belief doesn't make it true.   You will be telling me next the sky in Ancient Greece was blue, that Nero fiddled while Rome burned, frogs make a ribbit noise and a centipede has a 100 legs.  All of which I use as commonly held beliefs that are just wrong.  AOC is not an MMO the world is instanced to the hilt, though AOC is an RPG.  Just because terms are being used incorrectly doesn't mean I should just accept them. Though I do appreciate how annoying I can be,  but then people tend for the most to focus on the terminology.  Rather than argue AOC is an MMO because, we have the industry calls it an MMO so it's an MMO sort of approach.  All hail to the industry, not like they would ever lead any of us astray. I mean it's not like they are actually trying to sell us something in most instances.

 

I think this is a really interesting point. One could take it a step further though. *Is* AoC really an RPG? Well, what is an RPG? If I took Counterstrike and slapped persistent characters and levels on top, is it now an RPG? If I took that and made a persistent chat lobby where millions of players could chat with each other, would it be an MMORPG? What if the lobby was graphical, like a major city such as New York where you could run around and show off the gold desert eagles you purchased from the item shop? How is this functionally different than the MMO model of hubs/dungeon finder/instanced gameplay?

Two schools of thought here. First is that words mean things, and language doesn't evolve - rather words are misued. Second is that perception is reality, and words mean whatever a consensus say they mean.

Personally, I'm not convinced that MMORPGs are really MMORPGs anymore. In that sense that we're living in the age of genre cross-bleed... shooters have RPG elements, RPGs have online elements, Online Games have arenas and semi-persistent areas. How can one possibly draw lines? I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. On the positive side, it means a lot more options for gamers... 10 years ago the conventional wisdom might have been "This is a game of X genre, that's what gamers expect! You can't add elements of Y genre! It's too confusing!" On the negative side, it makes marketing more difficult. I'm not a marketing guy, but in my humble opinion effective marketing campaigns tend to be short and sweet, and drive home a unified message of the product. Gamers want to know what they are purchasing, but nobody wants to parse "World of Awesomeness is a massively multiplayer instance-based tab-target non-traditional-level based game with role-driven-grouping and shooter elements for 3d vehicle combat set in the fanstical world of SpellJammer" (or whatever). Instead you just say "Blow away your opponents with our innovative skyship combat system!"

 

 

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9953

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

11/17/11 6:26:49 PM#131


Originally posted by fallenlords


Originally posted by lizardbones






If you were talking about something that existed in nature and wasn't 100% made up by humans, you would have a point. Since mmorpg are 100% human created from scratch, what more than 90% of the population accepts as the definition is the definition. This applies to the different types of progression the same way it applies to the definition of an out of bounds ball in soccer.

AoC is an MMORPG because more than 90%* of the general population says it is. Diablo III is not an MMORPG because less than 10% of the population accepts that it is. TSW has skill based progression without levels because more than 90% of the population looks at TSW and what they've done and says to themselves, "That's skill based progression without levels."

Shenanigans, thy name is fallenlords.

* As an interesting side note, if you could convince as little as 10% of the population that you were correct in what you're saying, then your views would be quickly adopted by more of the general population.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110725190044.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily+%28ScienceDaily%3A+Latest+Science+News%29

 


We ought to have a theology debate then, by your definition we may even to able to prove the existence of God. AOC is is classified as an MMORPG because nobody has challenged that it isn't, nobody has said 'hold on that term doesn't quite fit'.  With generalised terms you can apply terms to anything.   Also depends a lot on your frame of reference if you have only played AOC, then it may appear to be an MMO for that reference point.   But once you play other games classed as MMO in nature you may be able to see the differences.   The majority of the population thought the world was flat at one point, the majority of the population were wrong.  Frame of reference, available information, all go to shaping generalised views.



The Secret World has skill based leveling without levels because people say that's what it is. There is no fundamental 'Skill Based Progression', nor is there some fundamental 'Level Based Progression' that exists outside of human ideas*. There isn't even some fundamental 'Progression' that exists outside of made up human ideas. Someone decided what those things were, and then most everyone else said, "We agree, that's what those things mean."

You can disagree with the definitions as much as you want, but until you convince at least 10% of the people who use those terms, you are wasting your time.

* The Earth being disc shaped or spherical is something that exists outside of human ideas. If humans weren't here, the Earth would still be flat or spherical. The same cannot be said about 'Progression', 'Level Based Progression' or 'Skill Based Progression'. Also, they knew as far back as Ancient Greece that the world was spherical...they proved it with math and shadows.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  fallenlords

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

11/18/11 5:08:24 AM#132
Originally posted by lizardbones



The Secret World has skill based leveling without levels because people say that's what it is. There is no fundamental 'Skill Based Progression', nor is there some fundamental 'Level Based Progression' that exists outside of human ideas*. There isn't even some fundamental 'Progression' that exists outside of made up human ideas. Someone decided what those things were, and then most everyone else said, "We agree, that's what those things mean."

You can disagree with the definitions as much as you want, but until you convince at least 10% of the people who use those terms, you are wasting your time.

* The Earth being disc shaped or spherical is something that exists outside of human ideas. If humans weren't here, the Earth would still be flat or spherical. The same cannot be said about 'Progression', 'Level Based Progression' or 'Skill Based Progression'. Also, they knew as far back as Ancient Greece that the world was spherical...they proved it with math and shadows.

 

Err what?  My argument is that TSW is neither classless nor level-less.  This is like getting a square shaped peg in a round hole.    I agree there are specific MMO based terms being used here, that the majority of the MMO community are happy to use.  But overall I think the terms infer something beyond their meaning.

{mod edit}

  Hycoo

Novice Member

Joined: 6/14/11
Posts: 208

11/18/11 9:20:37 AM#133

Give up trying to convince him about the terms being used. He has his opinion and he is entitled to that.

We all know how the character progression in TSW is gonna be like and most are looking forward to it because its something different and possibly a much more satisfying and complex system. Lets just be happy that the vast majority agrees with the terms being used by Funcom and that we all understand them.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9953

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

11/18/11 10:00:19 AM#134


Originally posted by fallenlords


Originally posted by lizardbones







The Secret World has skill based leveling without levels because people say that's what it is. There is no fundamental 'Skill Based Progression', nor is there some fundamental 'Level Based Progression' that exists outside of human ideas*. There isn't even some fundamental 'Progression' that exists outside of made up human ideas. Someone decided what those things were, and then most everyone else said, "We agree, that's what those things mean."

You can disagree with the definitions as much as you want, but until you convince at least 10% of the people who use those terms, you are wasting your time.

* The Earth being disc shaped or spherical is something that exists outside of human ideas. If humans weren't here, the Earth would still be flat or spherical. The same cannot be said about 'Progression', 'Level Based Progression' or 'Skill Based Progression'. Also, they knew as far back as Ancient Greece that the world was spherical...they proved it with math and shadows.

 


Just because people agree on something doesn't make it fact.



When it involves something that does not exist outside of human definitions, it does. TSW utilizes 'Skill Based Progression' because there is an agreed upon definition of 'Skill Based Progression' and TSW uses it.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Amana

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 1/03/11
Posts: 2257

11/18/11 12:22:54 PM#135

Okay, guys, if you want to discuss the "what makes an MMORPG an MMORPG", that's a topic better suited for The Pub or a different forum. Please stay on topic here. Last warning.

To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

7 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Search