Originally posted by MMOExposed

Iam sorry, but everything I do in Skyrim, I can also do in a current gen MMO.  Hey I can even explore,do Dungeons, and quest 

in WoW, if I wanted to, just like Skyrim.

 

so please, explain to me, how a Skyrim/ES MMO would be any different

Your comparison of WoW and Skyrim tells me you have not played Skyrim, or any of the other Elder Scrolls games (or if you did, you just blazed through a few of the quests without giving any of the rest of the game a thought)

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

Darkfall is too shallow, compared to The Elder Scrolls.

And its far worse made.

Iam sorry, but everything I do in Skyrim, I can also do in a current gen MMO.  Hey I can even explore,do Dungeons, and quest

 

in WoW, if I wanted to, just like Skyrim.

 

so please, explain to me, how a Skyrim/ES MMO would be any different

Before we answer that, have you even played Skyrim yet?  You could at least play the game and see if you like it or not before trying to argue about it and the merits of what does it have that MMOs don't. 

Yes. I played Oblivion, and that wore off. also playing Skyrim.

again, that will wear off like Oblivion fame did.

looking at Skyrim, and Oblivion, they seem to be very similar to me. They changed a few things here and there with the combat, but its still the same old thing at the core, with a little better paint on top.

Dungeons in Skyrim are just a dull as Oblivion were once the hype dies down.

so what that a few Giants 1shot in the world. just walk around them like most people already do.

again, exploration is nothing NEW to a MMORPG!

large worlds are standard to MMORPG. I guess thats why people assume that ES's large open worlds is something new to add to MMORPG games.
yet Vanguard also has a Large world, but nobody say anything about that,,, see.

also people call Skyrim a Sandbox right? yet it has Quest. Quest are everywhere, just like traditional MMO already have.

if you chose not to do quest in Skyrim, than what are you doing? Perhaps exploring and clearing out Dungeons, like I did from start.

well why cant I do the same thing in a MMO. I even compared those actions to WoW, one of the popular known "Themepark" mmo. In WoW, I can also explore, and do dungeons as I like to. I simply choose not to. But again, whats stopping players from doing that same thing in current MMORPGs? how would that be something new to the genre from a ES MMO?

also people seem to forget that ES world has reasons for looting, which would translate over to PvP FFA Full Looting in Massively Multiplayer terms, because you a bound to run into a jerk ganker on the net. And it fits right in on Elder Scroll's theme.

I think an Elder Scrolls MMO is definately possible, it would unfortunately require huge resources and time to make it worthy of the Elder Scrolls title.
Darkfall unfortunately simply didn't have the resources to make the game what we truelly wanted, that in conjuction with some design mistakes is what has kept me away from it.

So how would an Elder Scrolls MMO work? First off, anything is possible with proper thought, testing and tons of time and money. So anyone saying that an Elder Scrolls MMO would never work is simply Wrong!!!
It is how it is designed and developed is what will make or break any game.

So how would we solve some of the things?

Persistant world
This is a must in any MMORPG. The game would need to keep moving and keep changing, random events need to be exactly that (random). They need to happen but in different locations and different times and effect different people throughout the world.

Killing a character and then they come back
A simple character generation engine perhaps could cover this. If you kill Mr David Cameron for example to complete a quest or just for the fun of it then a new character needs to spawn with new features, new name, new clothes etc... and not necessarily be a requirement of that quest but of other quests perhaps. They may not spawn in the same location but elsewhere within the world.

Repeatable quests
As mentioned before, quests need to be dynamic and move about the gaming world and never be the same. If I enter a house in Westfall and speak to meet Mrs Queen of the world and complete a quest for her. That quest should be gone, and the quest generator should then add a new one to someone else, somewhere else within the world.

The World
Needs to be massive, absolutely huge to fill the different NCP's.

Where do we fit in?
All players start at unique locations throughout the world, not in the same place. They start the game with an NCP spawning explaining the controls and what they can do and provide directions to the nearest settlement. Then they disappear. This would be the only phasing element of the game. Other players would not see the NPC.

What about the story?
The story and it's quest will all be part of the game but not the dominant part of it, it would be an element that players can enjoy but wouldn't be the sole area that players can enjoy.

What about me?
Each player will have sort of a chronicles and it catalogues the character type, personality, acheivements, etc...

What about greiving?
Killing a player within a city will get you arrested and subject to a large fine, since money is the only thing people really care about in game a hefty fine should deter people.
Outside of the city, if players are grived they can report them to guards or place a bounty on there head for other players to pick up. They would also take a reputation hit with the law enforcement for that city, thus if they do it too many times, there rep will be too bad and guards will attack them regardless.

Gear
Important but not as important as other MMO's, gear should give you some benefits but shouldnt be the battle decider.

Levels
Gone, don't exist.

Skills
Each character has skill sets and these build up over time the more you do something. However, these only give you an advantage, if someone with 100 skills in heavy armour, dressed in elite gear gets stabbed in the head by a new player just starting. They die!!!

No health!!
Controversial but the health bar is gone!!! I would go for a more realistic approach, for example, you get stabbed in the arm you dont die but cannot carry a sword in that arm. Healers will heal body areas and cannot do it instantly.

Forget DPS, Tank and healer
Not all MMORPG's have to follow this model. This is Elder Scrolls so the combat would work just like in the single player. You could fight like this but perhaps have other options.

Just a few ideas I have got, sorry part of it went from an Elder Scrolls MMO to my idea of a good MMO but you get the general idea.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

why doesnt Darkfall satisfy the crowd that want a Elder Scroll MMO?

fill me in somebody

I don't know about others, but for me I can't stomach PvP communities.

So many pricks seem to be attracted to that style of game... not saying everyone that plays them are pricks, but they always end up dominating the culture.

PvP in MMORPGs a a concept is fundamentally flawed anyhow IMO... I will stick to FPS games for that fix. Skyrim is for when I am in a completely different place.

Both free roaming worlds and free to develop your character as you pleased and not force to follow the quest path you can leave the road as in both games.

Dungeons in Skyrim almost same as in Oblivion and dull???...are you playing a different game here?

A themepark is TOTALLY DIFFERNT from what Skyrim as game presents no comparison Mr. mmo(themepark)exposed:P

Originally posted by MMOtoGO

The actual game has nothing do to with why I haven't and won't play Darkfall.  I have no desire to deal with griefers.  I'm fine with PvP, but not with the unrelenting spew of people who play DF for the pure enjoyment of destroying other's enjoyment.  

This is not true at all ive played 2 years Darkfall and not realy experience this, prolly spread by the well known Darkfall haters and trolls here on forum

darkfall

--> you start with nothing.

--> nothing is explained

--> no directions

--> takes time till you are able to pvp proper..

--> most of the trials uninstall the game within 3 hours because if above mentioned

--> got killed? lots all loot.. rage quit?! espeically when you just start and have 4 pieces of armor.

--> the start is just to hard for people

Skyrim..

--> hmm single player? nuff said i think. ( ow wait no pvp?)

And yes i am a long term darkfall player..

Edit: Forgot something.

imo darkfall is best skilled pvp mmo out there..

av is worst game company ever

Originally posted by Snoepie

av is worst game company ever

Mork calling Star Vault, come in Star Vault.

Originally posted by forest-nl

Both free roaming worlds and free to develop your character as you pleased and not force to follow the quest path you can leave the road as in both games.

Dungeons in Skyrim almost same as in Oblivion and dull???...are you playing a different game here?

A themepark is TOTALLY DIFFERNT from what Skyrim as game presents no comparison Mr. mmo(themepark)exposed:P

No it isnt. Have you actually played video games?

Oblivion played a lot like Everquest, or any other open world themepark. Huge open world with plenty of PVE content. Gives some alternate content that can be done as well.

SPG sandboxes like ES, Red Dead Redepmtion, and GTA play nothing at all like a MMO sandbox. You dont play Uncle Owen to win the game in them, and you sure as hell dont have to produce your own content as plenty of it is provided.

The reason they are called "sandboxes" is cause they give a player alternate content, but in no way/shape/form do you progress thru to the end of the game due to it.  No matter how much a player gets "side tracked", there is always a path to follow whenever the person decides to get back to it. MMO sandboxes provide no path.

To the OP, for me its because the gfx suck imo. If DF2 ever gets released it will be good imo.

i think mortal online was to be that game, it was such a missed opportunity, their heart is in the right place still with the direction they are gonig but they are terrible at programming and each patch has been buggy as hell, Darkfall was supposed to be the successor to ultima online and failed at that pretty hard thegame that was talked about before release is nothing like the game now.

i also dont consider everquest a sandbox, it was the forfather of theme park mmos, were as UO was the forfather of sandbox games.

which ever company manages to make a working mmo version of the elder scrolls (or similar) is going to be a very rich company and probably the biggest rival to WOW in terms of subscriptions. I beleive mmo players are starting to want more from thier mmo experiences and theme parks simply cannot provide it anymore, its about time sandbox mmos were back on top.

after playing skyrim for well over 60 hours already its an amazing game, but there are a few things that annoy me, the first one that jumped straight at me was the melee combat i just felt that mortal onlnie did it better with its directional blocking or something like warband would of been even better.  The constant loading is also very mmo unfriendly which would really prevent it becoming an mmo with same high graphics, also the looting of ragdoll corpses would not translate into an mmo hence why darkfall uses death animations and mo uses lootbags.

personaly for me it was the melee combat.

when i first played DF i was looking for that first person view experience (much like Oblivion) so i jumped in and was all stoked when i tried archery it was just awesome.....

magic was cool but some horrendous sounds, and i mean horrendous. mana missle was like a really loud bathtub draining....

and then came melee and i was like WTF?! what is this? 3rd person crap totaly ruined the immersio that magic/archery provided. it was as if i was playing 2 games and had to keep switching from one to the other eveyr time i wanted to use melee. i mean, i dont mind the option to go 3rd person, but the absolute absence of first person was a huge turn off. it was just odd (not to mention the character models are not that good).

i never really got over it either. still now days i wish they had a first person melee option.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

what is Darkfall lacking as a sandbox, that Skyrim has?

The Elder Scrolls title.

+Polish

i LOVE darkfall i played it and loved it but i quit due to the harassment of the local pop. A newb wich i was starting out and was always being camped by high lvl eliet jackasses that have nothign better to do than make new players life hell so they dont play it no more. any they wonder why no one plays the game?

Because Darkfall is nothing like the Elder Scrolls and it feels more like Morrowind in areas like graphics and character animations, and whilst I love Morrowind and still play it on occasion I am not eager to pick up any other games that feel dated.

(Morrowind was actually dated in those respects when it was launched to)

For those of you complaining about Darkfall's community and it being nothing but griefers and all that, you probably havent played in awhile. I started playing a few months ago and quickly became a member of 1 of several clans in an alliance of anti-griefers & newbie helpers made up of a couple hundred players. We've been getting our fair share of grief from the asshats because of our stance on anti-griefing but with the help of some very good vets in the alliance and a lot of new players being trained & assisted by them we have been quickly growing in numbers and power. We also have several shared holdings which are open to anyone who wishes to live there in peace, but those who cause problems are put on the KoS list and quickly swarmed by members from multiple clans in the area. Our alliance has also been taking holdings from some of the griefing clans as well as taking their griefing out of their hides through asset destruction and draining their mines & groves throughout the day if they insist on griefing the alliance and new players in the area.

Anyway, if Im right and you havent played in awhile you may want to check out the current state of things this weekend. Theyre doing 4x skill gains & increased loot weekend as well as reactivating all old accounts for the event. Check out the blog post about it here: http://www.darkfallonline.com/blog/fast-skill-up-weekend-details/

Originally posted by kaiser3282

For those of you complaining about Darkfall's community and it being nothing but griefers and all that, you probably havent played in awhile. I started playing a few months ago and quickly became a member of 1 of several clans in an alliance of anti-griefers & newbie helpers made up of a couple hundred players. We've been getting our fair share of grief from the asshats because of our stance on anti-griefing but with the help of some very good vets in the alliance and a lot of new players being trained & assisted by them we have been quickly growing in numbers and power. We also have several shared holdings which are open to anyone who wishes to live there in peace, but those who cause problems are put on the KoS list and quickly swarmed by members from multiple clans in the area. Our alliance has also been taking holdings from some of the griefing clans as well as taking their griefing out of their hides through asset destruction and draining their mines & groves throughout the day if they insist on griefing the alliance and new players in the area.

Anyway, if Im right and you havent played in awhile you may want to check out the current state of things this weekend. Theyre doing 4x skill gains & increased loot weekend as well as reactivating all old accounts for the event. Check out the blog post about it here: http://www.darkfallonline.com/blog/fast-skill-up-weekend-details/

This is good to hear.

In the days of Ultima Online circa 97-99 and on Darktide of AC, philosophical differences between guilds helped a great deal in balancing the griefing aspect of FFA looting MMO's.   For reasons I can speculate upon, that went out the window in DFO.  If it's surfacing as posted above, great.   This is actually far more of a critical aspect of what would have made DFO more fun for many, but has been lacking grossly since its release.

Regarding the OP, I have no idea why people assume he's trolling or whatever.  I see his point.   DFO and other MMO's would be more like Skyrim and more like a Skyrim MMO "IF" the developers did more of what OSI did back in the day of UO and actually roamed the land as characters to create unscripted content.   If AV did that and had more sand that UO had in addition to placing skill caps on characters like UO did, like Syrim does, it would be a much better game.

-CC

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Jowen

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by nikoliath

Originally posted by MMOExposed
...

WAIT

 

Isnt that the same thing as the Bandits in Skyrim?!

 

its the same thing!! they kill you without question

The difference being the intent; single player RPG worlds contain AI that is hostile but not with the intent of searching you out, ganking you, stealing your stuff, camping your corpse and forcing you to concede. Quite the opposite infact, you can recover your defeat by reloading. You can, if YOU choose, come back to that impass at a later time when you are more able to overcome.

 

Generally speaking, IMO, FFA full loot PVP centric mmorpgs are for those who enjoy raining on people's parade, kicking sandcastles and being "antisocial" in an anonomous manner.

again thats the same thing as Skyrim..

 

Thief- "Give me yo shit fool!!!!"

Player - "Fuc No MotherF-er!!! you can steal this hammer up that boney dark elf ass of yours bitch!!!"

player and Thief fights

winner loots

I like how you compare the intelligence level of griefers with that of a scripted AI.

they both playing the same role. both want to take your shit.

 

the bandit doesnt live by morals or rules(laws).

 

in video games, the gankers are Anonymous and hide behind a PC. so they also dont have morals nor rules against not attacking players.

except for the fact that in skyrim

1) the bandit is not some powergrinding lowlife that I have no chance against like most gankers are in Darkfall

2) if i die to the bandit i start back at my last save and really don't lose anything (unless i haven't saved in a while)

so no its not really the same, give me the option to "save" in darkfall and i bet you would have more players.

my cousin has been trying to get me into Darkfall for the past month (he just started playing it) and I did i loaded up the free trial and you know what the difference is. In Skyrim people play for the adventure and the exploration and finding cool ****. In darkfall people play to grief other players and kill.

sorry but DF would be more popular if it was not FFA PVP, the first sandbox game like DF that has consensual PVP will see a huge influx of gamers. sorry but many people don't want to run around looking over there shoulder because they are worried about being ganked. Nor do they want to do (like my cousin) go find some remote area of the world to "skill up". thats terrible game design and sorry but for MANY FFA PVP is terrible game design.

i get everything from skyrim that i would get from darkfall or any other sandbox without all the a**hat and dip***t PKers that come with FFA PVP. so you all can stay in darkfall gank each other with the other 100 or so players it has, ill keep to my skyrim.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

why doesnt Darkfall satisfy the crowd that want a Elder Scroll MMO?

what is Darkfall lacking as a sandbox, that Skyrim has?

I been seeing a lot of talk about Skyrim here being compared to MMORPG. but what confuses me,,, I dont see anything in Skyrim that isnt alreayd standard in sandbox MMO, let alone themepark MMO as well.

fill me in somebody

Well, the basic thing Bethesda have that Aventurine lacks is good programmers.

There is a whole lot longer list (everything from graphics to crafting) but with bad coding a MMO can only become small at best.

If Avi would have made a singleplayer game that matches Skyrim feature for feature it still wouldn't become a hit.

It is BTW the same reason Wow won over EQ2, both games launched more or less the same time and EQ2 had many people standing in line for it, but Wow won anyways.