Originally posted by Fozzik

I think this thread shows one thing really clearly -

Informed people with some understanding of the mechanics of both games - Playing GW2, or both.

Uninformed people making decisions based on superficial things like franchise - Playing SW:TOR

I think this response shows one thing clearly. Ignorance based upon supposition.

I hear GW2 is going to be a good game. I do not care at all. I am so sick of the fantasy genre, unless they give the box away, I will not pick it up. Nothing to do with being uninformed. Just the opposite actually.

So for me, it's SWTOR. Have no idea how long it will last for me though. Have to wait and see.

I'll be picking GW2 > SWTOR.

Most likely because i loved GW over any of the star wars games, plus after following the news and such on both games.. I like the direction GW2 is going.

Originally posted by Fozzik

 

In the case of SW:TOR, it's the same old stale formulaic game, with all its problems and shortcomings fully intact. They stapled a quality (but linear) single-player RPG on the side and put some duct tape on top of some of the worst aspects of the old formula...but it is what it is.

"Sure, we copied over the same horrible crafting system instead of making a better one, but don't worry...Our companion system allows you to skip the crafting all together!"

"Ok, so our mechanics actively discourage social play in the central advancement path of the game...but don't worry, we provide you with fake other players to replace the real other players you would normally have to deal with in an MMO."

I'll be putting my money down on GW2.

This.  I'm not saying I'm buying GW2 but I prefer it over SWTOR for the above mentioned reasons. Singe player RPG in an MMORPG. wtf?

If I could only pick one, it would be GW2, but I am not playing anything, and got friends playing swtor, so I will be getting it.  I have reservations about it, but I will be getting it....I am psyched about GW2 WvWvW...hopefully they do a good job on it.

Already preordered SW:TOR because

- I`m a Starwars fan. First movie I can remember seeing as a toddler is Return of the Jedi.

- I`m a casual player. The family and the job occupy most of my time.

- I'm all about PVE. I can't really see the point in PVP, I have nothing to prove to anyone. 

- I don't mind the classical targeting and ability usage mechanics. I have preordered Skyrim for my sandbox urges.

Originally posted by Fozzik

Despite EA's money, BioWare's reputation, and the obvious strength of the Star Wars IP... My decision on what to play (where to spend my money) is still going to be based on what really matters - that actual game itself, the philosophy behind it, and how it plays.

In the case of SW:TOR, it's the same old stale formulaic game, with all its problems and shortcomings fully intact. They stapled a quality (but linear) single-player RPG on the side and put some duct tape on top of some of the worst aspects of the old formula...but it is what it is.

"Sure, we copied over the same horrible crafting system instead of making a better one, but don't worry...Our companion system allows you to skip the crafting all together!"

"Ok, so our mechanics actively discourage social play in the central advancement path of the game...but don't worry, we provide you with fake other players to replace the real other players you would normally have to deal with in an MMO."

GW2 on the other hand is a true MMORPG in every sense, and actually moves the genre in a better direction. They've tossed out the formula the genre has been stuck on for the last 6 years (the mass-market, ultra-accessible but ever-more-shallow, dumbed-down EQ formula popularized by WoW), and actually took a fresh look at a lot of systems from the ground up.

Their philosophy revolves around the fundamental elements that originally gave this genre its promise (true social play, server community, a deep virtual world), and they will be realizing some of that promise in very new and innovative ways. They will also be adding some new elements in a way that actually integrates them into the design at a basic level in a much more organic way...like personal story, more visceral, tactical, and mobile combat, PvP based on player skill rather than gear, etc.

So, my choice is pretty simple. Do I support yet another clone which does nothing to move the genre forward and likely wouldn't keep me interested for more than 3 months, or do I support a game that moves the genre in a better direction using innovation and imaginative new systems to improve on the fundamentals, and adds some actual new depth instead of just tacked-on systems from other types of games?

I'll be putting my money down on GW2.

You sound like as if you'd get to choose what others should like or not. The crafting is fine, even more so when you can leave companions to do it, the companions and their mini missions and them being actual companions instead of just combat pets is a huge plus. There's not many things that bothers me in TOR, I know the game mechanics and the game structure and it's fine, like to so many others. Sure there are some features in GW2 that I would have liked to see in TOR, the dynamic events mostly, but there are some which I would not want to see, like the mandatory lag dependant dodge roll spam. A big thing for me also is the world PvP, none of that in GW2 (yes I know what mists are, do you?).

Then there's smaller things, it's nice that your abilities change with the weapon in GW2, as long as it does not lead to mandatory weapon swapping spam in PvP as if they were just different quickbar slots in other games. I love mounts, none of that in GW2, instead there's the teleport to anywhere system that I hate beyond anything. Full voice overs is a huge plus too, one of the most frowned thing in mmorpgs today to me is the lack of them and the stupid damn wall of accept that kills all the immersion if there ever was any.

Oh and trinity, it's not a problem to me, and this lack of trinity in GW2, well I hope it wont be a problem too, I kinda like roles in games. This Anet philosofy "We want you to have instant fun and no waiting" might be a little bit too over done in the game, teleport to anywhere to get instantly to fun, sheesh it makes the whole world feel like a lobby game and breaks immersion when you dont need to travel to anywhere. Also the breaking of trinity is pulled from the "instant fun" pool and I hope it works out for better, raging fans might see it only as a good thing, but I'm not sure untill it's proven that it's mostly good after stripping tanks and healers from a mmorpg, roles that some people love to play, and some other love to play with. It's not only removing the trinity, but also removing layers from the game, though, while taking something away, I think this feature will be mostly positive, I do hope so at least.

A lot of good things in both of them, not every good thing have to be something totally "new" or innovative also, and some new or innovative things seems to be a lot of crap, some even stuff that could possibly really harm a game for me, the overdone teleporting and dodge rolling, I'm eagerly waiting to be proven wrong when the game releases.

All in all, I think this thread is crap like every other "my game is better", especially since everyone is still talking about games that have not been released yet.

I have nothing personal against SW:tOR, but I probably won't be playing it.

Barring unforseen circumstances, I'll probably be playing GW2.

My reasons?  Well, they're my reasons.  It's a personal taste thing.  It's not like my reasons are going to convince you or something.

There's perfectly legitimate reasons to want to or not want to play either one of the games.

Buy and play what you want!  Whatever.

I'll at least try to play SW:tOR at my friend's house or something so I can form a better opinion without committing myself to owning a game I potentially might not like enough to be pay a sub for.   (Because you have to be pretty masochistic to sub to a game just on the off chance you MIGHT play it, sometime later, down the line.)

Originally posted by marquisk2

Originally posted by Fozzik

 

In the case of SW:TOR, it's the same old stale formulaic game, with all its problems and shortcomings fully intact. They stapled a quality (but linear) single-player RPG on the side and put some duct tape on top of some of the worst aspects of the old formula...but it is what it is.

"Sure, we copied over the same horrible crafting system instead of making a better one, but don't worry...Our companion system allows you to skip the crafting all together!"

"Ok, so our mechanics actively discourage social play in the central advancement path of the game...but don't worry, we provide you with fake other players to replace the real other players you would normally have to deal with in an MMO."

I'll be putting my money down on GW2.

This.  I'm not saying I'm buying GW2 but I prefer it over SWTOR for the above mentioned reasons. Singe player RPG in an MMORPG. wtf?

Neither of the two things he stated make the game any more single player then any other game. The only difference is it might make it easier for people who solo to do so, but then it also makes it easier for them to understand grouping if they so decide to group because with the companion (when they solo) they understand the role they are playing more.

More people might play healers for instance if they could actually fight the creatures but because of the required group based nature, most people avoid it because they need a group to even level up.

But in almost every case you'll want a real life player vs a companion as they will still do better then the companion. In groups you'll only want a companion if you can't find the real life person version of that class so you can play instead of having to sit at the entrance spamming LF X please help we've been looking for 2 hours.

The first one is a version of crafting, instead of you watching the crafting bar moving, your companions do it. You still need to find the scheamtic (recipe), the materials (which you or your companion can collect in the real world, or send your companion out to get them but beware this is a tatical choice because it cost you money, and can fail), still need to assign tasks to them for crafting, and you still need to take the results to the AH to sell to other players, This is no different then other games crafting except that it's timer based instead of being able to quick combine 30 of the same item.

So unless having crafting in other MMOs makes it single player then it doesn't here either because the companions don't do anything beyond sit there and make the item instead of your avatar. Another big difference is that your crafting skill actually can help you in dungeons as sometimes they can open paths in the dungeon that might otherwise be closed without it.

SWTOR!

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Originally posted by whilan

Neither of the two things he stated make the game any more single player then any other game. The only difference is it might make it easier for people who solo to do so, but then it also makes it easier for them to understand grouping if they so decide to group because with the companion (when they solo) they understand the role they are playing more.
More people might play healers for instance if they could actually fight the creatures but because of the required group based nature, most people avoid it because they need a group to even level up.
But in almost every case you'll want a real life player vs a companion as they will still do better then the companion. In groups you'll only want a companion if you can't find the real life person version of that class so you can play instead of having to sit at the entrance spamming LF X please help we've been looking for 2 hours.
The first one is a version of crafting, instead of you watching the crafting bar moving, your companions do it. You still need to find the scheamtic (recipe), the materials (which you or your companion can collect in the real world, or send your companion out to get them but beware this is a tatical choice because it cost you money, and can fail), still need to assign tasks to them for crafting, and you still need to take the results to the AH to sell to other players, This is no different then other games crafting except that it's timer based instead of being able to quick combine 30 of the same item.
So unless having crafting in other MMOs makes it single player then it doesn't here either because the companions don't do anything beyond sit there and make the item instead of your avatar. Another big difference is that your crafting skill actually can help you in dungeons as sometimes they can open paths in the dungeon that might otherwise be closed without it.

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There are numerous other things about the game that make it actively discourage social play, beyond what I mentioned. I was just picking two highlights at random. How about having to compete for spawns and harvesting nodes? How about the lame task grind that only allows players to work together if they just happen to be at exactly the same point in the chain? There are many more. If you use the same old formulaic MMO mechanics, you are going to suffer from all the same problems...and these games becoming all about solo experiences until max level and then raiding... SW:TOR will carry on that "tradition" for better or worse.

As someone else pointed out, This is my opinion and everyone is entitled to their own. To those objecting to my generalizations about the thread...you missed the part where I said that informed people who make decisions based on more criteria would probably play GW2 OR BOTH...in other words, I understand that a legit case can be made that SW:TOR is worth playing for certain people. What I was pointing out was that everyone who has objections to GW2 seems to be extremely uninformed, or making a decision entirely based on superficial criteria like the franchise or the developer's name / past titles, and not on any comparison of the actual content or mechanics of the two games.

Originally posted by Fozzik

 

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Originally posted by whilan

Neither of the two things he stated make the game any more single player then any other game. The only difference is it might make it easier for people who solo to do so, but then it also makes it easier for them to understand grouping if they so decide to group because with the companion (when they solo) they understand the role they are playing more.
More people might play healers for instance if they could actually fight the creatures but because of the required group based nature, most people avoid it because they need a group to even level up.
But in almost every case you'll want a real life player vs a companion as they will still do better then the companion. In groups you'll only want a companion if you can't find the real life person version of that class so you can play instead of having to sit at the entrance spamming LF X please help we've been looking for 2 hours.
The first one is a version of crafting, instead of you watching the crafting bar moving, your companions do it. You still need to find the scheamtic (recipe), the materials (which you or your companion can collect in the real world, or send your companion out to get them but beware this is a tatical choice because it cost you money, and can fail), still need to assign tasks to them for crafting, and you still need to take the results to the AH to sell to other players, This is no different then other games crafting except that it's timer based instead of being able to quick combine 30 of the same item.
So unless having crafting in other MMOs makes it single player then it doesn't here either because the companions don't do anything beyond sit there and make the item instead of your avatar. Another big difference is that your crafting skill actually can help you in dungeons as sometimes they can open paths in the dungeon that might otherwise be closed without it.

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There are numerous other things about the game that make it actively discourage social play, beyond what I mentioned. I was just picking two highlights at random. How about having to compete for spawns and harvesting nodes? How about the lame task grind that only allows players to work together if they just happen to be at exactly the same point in the chain? There are many more. If you use the same old formulaic MMO mechanics, you are going to suffer from all the same problems...and these games becoming all about solo experiences until max level and then raiding... SW:TOR will carry on that "tradition" for better or worse.

As someone else pointed out, This is my opinion and everyone is entitled to their own. To those objecting to my generalizations about the thread...you missed the part where I said that informed people who make decisions based on more criteria would probably play GW2 OR BOTH...in other words, I understand that a legit case can be made that SW:TOR is worth playing for certain people. What I was pointing out was that everyone who has objections to GW2 seems to be extremely uninformed, or making a decision entirely based on superficial criteria like the franchise or the developer's name / past titles, and not on any comparison of the actual content or mechanics of the two games.

My biggest issue with GW2 is the teleportation system

The lack of a allignment system.

GW1 story was boring to me and what i watched of GW2 story it seems like it be the same

what i've seen of the community thus far asides from a few hasn't been good (yes thats a part of the actual content)

I don't care for the more action style gameplay of GW2

There are no dwarfs (in a fantasy game i want to be able to play a dwarf class)

Those are my objections to guild wars 2. All of it factual as you may or may not have noticed.

I've also seen a lot of people who say they don't want to play GW2 is because it's a high fantasy game. Again factual, as it is a high fantasy game.

Neither for me, I'll be playing WoW. I'll wait a few months and see how these two are doing. 

Originally posted by Fozzik

What I was pointing out was that everyone who has objections to GW2 seems to be extremely uninformed, or making a decision entirely based on superficial criteria like the franchise or the developer's name / past titles, and not on any comparison of the actual content or mechanics of the two games.

You keep saying "everyone" who objects. I could accept if you said "most people I see".

I made my decision based entirely on the content of GW2. It is fantasy, and I am completely sick of fantasy games right now. I would say there are a large number of people just like me (in my opinion). So perhaps you should widen your criteria.

Its funny to see that GW2 is the popular one overhere on MMORPG.com, while in the real world everything indicates that in the first month after release SW:TOR will sell much more boxes then GW2

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Originally posted by Zenjinx

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Originally posted by Fozzik

What I was pointing out was that everyone who has objections to GW2 seems to be extremely uninformed, or making a decision entirely based on superficial criteria like the franchise or the developer's name / past titles, and not on any comparison of the actual content or mechanics of the two games.

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You keep saying "everyone" who objects. I could accept if you said "most people I see".
I made my decision based entirely on the content of GW2. It is fantasy, and I am completely sick of fantasy games right now. I would say there are a large number of people just like me (in my opinion). So perhaps you should widen your criteria.

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"don't want fantasy" is a pretty superficial criteria, I'm sorry to say. It has nothing to do with the mechanics of the game or how it plays. You are certainly entitled to spend your money however you want, but I doubt your going to keep playing TOR if it turns out to suck gameplay-wise, even though it's "not fantasy". If GW2 turns out to be very popular and excellent gameplay-wise...I have a feeling you'll end up giving it a shot. ;)

I agree with you about my statement. "Everyone" is not the right word to use, I apologize. "Most people" is more accurate.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Its funny to see that GW2 is the popular one overhere on MMORPG.com, while in the real world everything indicates that in the first month after release SW:TOR will sell much more boxes then GW2

Who cares?  MMOs are based on longevity.  All the initial sales in the world can't save a shitty game.  I think the industry has proven that a few times now.

Originally posted by Fozzik

There are numerous other things about the game that make it actively discourage social play, beyond what I mentioned. I was just picking two highlights at random. How about having to compete for spawns and harvesting nodes? How about the lame task grind that only allows players to work together if they just happen to be at exactly the same point in the chain? There are many more. If you use the same old formulaic MMO mechanics, you are going to suffer from all the same problems...and these games becoming all about solo experiences until max level and then raiding... SW:TOR will carry on that "tradition" for better or worse.

As someone else pointed out, This is my opinion and everyone is entitled to their own. To those objecting to my generalizations about the thread...you missed the part where I said that informed people who make decisions based on more criteria would probably play GW2 OR BOTH...in other words, I understand that a legit case can be made that SW:TOR is worth playing for certain people. What I was pointing out was that everyone who has objections to GW2 seems to be extremely uninformed, or making a decision entirely based on superficial criteria like the franchise or the developer's name / past titles, and not on any comparison of the actual content or mechanics of the two games.

Any sandbox-lovers who don't want to play GW2 because it's yet another themepark are just being silly?

All those who are sick of fantasy games and are looking for sci-fi instead clearly don't know anything about MMOs?

People who don't like more action based combat and actually enjoy slower more turn-based combat are just basing themselves on superficial criteria?

Those who greatly enjoy old-school traditional MMOs where levelling was hard and you sure as hell couldn't teleport around the map are just uninformed?

Anyone excited about an MMO with a storyline that actually allows you to choose between good and evil and tempts you with hard decisions is purely being influenced by the developer's name?

Get a grip. Your chosen game isn't nearly as amazing as you pretend it is.

After i seen and played SWTOR BETA, i can say GW2. With Diablo 3 and GW2 together, i can enjoy gaming with 2 top games without paying a monthly fee.

Personally, I'm going to play Skyrim despite it not being an MMO.

If I had to chose between what the OP asks, GW 2 I guess.

SWTOR is too linear of a game for me.