Trending Games | World of Warcraft | EVE Online | ArcheAge | Guild Wars 2

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,814,906 Users Online:0
Games:731  Posts:6,213,790
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

News & Features Discussion  » World of Warcraft: The Talent System 2.0

6 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 » Search
117 posts found
  Sasami

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/08
Posts: 330

10/26/11 2:16:12 PM#41

While sounding interesting, this changes nothing. You won't have hybrid builds because in order them to work they need to redesign whole combat system and dungeons. So while you may have this choice it's superficial, because in order to raid you need certain talents and so on. WoWs problem is design flaws in higher raiding that basic drives much of it hardness from huge dmg and spam healing to counter it. And whole balance will be screwed by monk class that uses totally different combat mechanics, ffs they should move everyone to non-autoattack but they are too lazy. Prepare for even worse balance issues than there was with Death Knight. Prepare to face buggy content like it was during Catalysm. Blizzard haven't put money in WoW for last two years, it's milking it till end and we are the suckers who take it like candy. Prepare to face same crap in different wrapper, I lasted 3 months on Catalysm which ended almost constant playing from start. Wake up and smell the air, it's not roses!


  vbathery

Novice Member

Joined: 6/14/08
Posts: 19

10/26/11 2:48:05 PM#42

WOW Bliz stealing another idea from a game, Alganon has almost the same system and they did it first LOL. All bliz can do is steal ideas from everyone else sense most of there creative talent left a long time ago.


  User Deleted
10/26/11 2:56:10 PM#43

This makes sense.

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

10/26/11 3:05:01 PM#44

One of the great things about having a choice is in dodging the bad ones, and knowing the unskilled by the choices they've made. In Magic: The Gathering they have some terrible cards in their deck releases, ones that are terribly inefficient and would be a poor choice in any build. When asked about these cards, Wizards responded that if they didn't put bad cards into the game it would just be good cards, and the bad cards actually increase the value of the good ones.


The same, in my opinion, applies to talents. You need to have the choice to make a bad decision in order to make the good decision worthwhile. Otherwise why not just take all choice away? I realize in this case you're still choosing for the 'flavor' of the talent... but it's one step closer to just doing away with any talent choices whatsoever.


  Hoplites

Novice Member

Joined: 6/08/06
Posts: 442

10/26/11 3:10:06 PM#45

I don't like how each spec is losing its identity for further homgenenization.  Basically, all rogue specs will have a mobility, DPS, energy talents, etc with little or no variance.

So bland.

 

 

  Biggus99

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/30/11
Posts: 964

10/26/11 3:11:03 PM#46
Originally posted by Ozmodan

All this does is make every other healer almost the exact same build.  One of the worst decisions I have ever seen made in a MMO, my account can now stay dead far as I am concerned, I will not play such a dumbed down game.

It was bad enough we will soon have Kung fu pandas and pokemon pets, but this puts the icing on the cake.  Basically all I can say is that  Wow is now pathetic!

As opposed to now, where every other healer is...wait for it...the exact same build.  

  Lukain

Novice Member

Joined: 4/23/06
Posts: 591

10/26/11 3:54:04 PM#47

Question: So there no Dual spec anymore? Like I cant Have a Pally spec in Ret & Prot?

 

 

  felbladex

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/08
Posts: 34

10/26/11 4:19:07 PM#48

It's not "dumbing it down". They are just addressing something stupid that happens constantly.


 


When given the choice of 30 skills, you think you have options and are going to "customize" your character. Now, you have a bunch of skills that are completely useless or deemed "crap" and you can't really use them as they are useless skills. Just think of a DK placing 100% of points in unholy right after DKs were released and no points into anything else. Stupid looking, no?  You get made fun of because you chose a skill that you thought would be good or "fit your character" and was, instead, a horribly crappy idea. In the end, you only really had one-two real choices. You could make the choice to heal properly with one specific build, or be a crappy healer with most other builds. You could be a good tank, or die over and over. You could get 20k dps or 10k dps. All because you didn't choose the best way. The options became completely meaningless and fell into the category of "illusion of choice".


 


In a video game, if you get two options and one option ends in a game over, or even has a 70% chance of ending in a game over, while the other option has a 0% chance of a game over, which one will you pick? In Gears of War 2, when they give you the option of turning a handle and make you waste 1 minute turning a handle when no one can interrupt you and you HAVE to do it anyway, boring or not, don't you just wish they would have just done it automatically? I'd prefer grouping with a bunch of skilled players and if the tank messes up people knew it was his fault, than thinking "oh, he just specced wrong". I value skill over the illusion of choice any day.


 


If your choices don't matter, why get pissed off when a person takes your choices away in an effort of giving you REAL options. Even if they give us NO options, it'd be better than having no options and the game trying to fool you into thinking you do.


 


"Do you want chocolate or vanilla ice cream?"


"Vanilla!"


"We're out of vanilla."


"Why'd you ask me if I wanted vanilla then?"


The inability to lighten up doesn't make you hardcore.

  Cameo3

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/11
Posts: 234

10/26/11 4:54:25 PM#49

Anyone else realize that it's the pathetic cry-baby paladins that are focal points for nerfs to the game? This time, being the fact that our talents are getting dumbed down so pallys can be healers, tanks and their retardins.


Member of Talon | www.lakexeno.com
RIFT: Redcameo, Warrior, Faemist Server
RIFT: Bluecameo, Mage, Faemist Server

  Malevil

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/06/10
Posts: 469

10/26/11 5:05:27 PM#50

Imo this change just show negative impact of raiding endgame on mmos, min-maxing your builds for best dps, hps etc. is all that matters ... 


  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3087

10/26/11 5:10:42 PM#51

Basically they're removing talents all together.  Now it's just based on how you play.  If you want to tank you chose this column every 15 levels.  If you want to heal you pick this column, if you want to DPS you pick the last column.  It's not much different than the other talent systems, but there's no real customization.  You pick the talent and it gives you bonuses to tanking/healing/dps'ing.


 


My only question is I hope you don't have to have a prerequisite in the "tree". So at 15 you go with the tanking talent, but at 30 you can go with the second row dps talent...that would be fine with me.





 

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2838

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

10/26/11 5:20:13 PM#52

This talent change is just... just stupid. Cookie cutter builds are a problem? Alright, lets make it an even more dumbed down system where you need to choose! Guess what blizz, in the world of 'maximizing' a character, there are going to be things always picked and if anything there will be less builds to use. Sure cookie cutter builds were there before, but they will exist again. Now instead of having maybe 1 talent swap difference in adjustment, its more likely people will have the same exact build to maximize their character. Its basically Wow talents 1.0... with a lot less choices and variations. You made it from having 2 cookie cutter builds or variations in builds to 1, and pretty much just screwed over any 'unique' ability to a character. Sure cookie cutter builds existed, but this system that your trying to 'stop it' from happening is just making it worst. You pretty much did absolutely NOTHING to fix the problem your claiming this to fix.


Overall, while I feel its stupid its not a big deal for end game. Sure you make less individuality but it really isn't that much of a crunch on gameplay. The problem is this change makes leveling feel like that much less of an accomplishment. You use to get 1 talent a level. This made it feel like you actually progressed in the game where you don't have an option like putting in stats. With the wotlk change, you took that down to 2 levels and pretty much made that feeling so much weaker. If it wasn't for adjusting quests and all, I'd bet you everyone would say leveling felt a lot worst in Wotlk. 


With this change, you pretty much destroyed any sense of accomplishment. Now you level and, absolutely nothing happens. You get no reward, no sense of achievement, absolutely posatively zilch. There is a reason DDO had changed the way you level to give you essencially 'mini dings' so that you did feel like you actually progressed despite not having a level for a good length of time. This change pretty much makes you feel while leveling that you really have almost no control over your character. Your pretty much just playing along and once in a blue moon, you get to pick between three skills, most likely wanting to maximize for what you want to do so in many cases your going to pick the same options, where as before you could at the very least have some adjustment to how you built up and grabbed skills. 


TLDR: Not a huge deal for end game, but for those leveling, you pretty much destroyed any sense of achievement in leveling.  Making an aspect this game tends to faulter on that much more lack luster.


  Cameo3

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/11
Posts: 234

10/26/11 5:30:12 PM#53

Originally posted by Lukain

Question: So there no Dual spec anymore? Like I cant Have a Pally spec in Ret & Prot?


 


 



 


Nope because no more specs. Your talents are your talents and they are "gemmed" like glyphs.


Member of Talon | www.lakexeno.com
RIFT: Redcameo, Warrior, Faemist Server
RIFT: Bluecameo, Mage, Faemist Server

  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6624

10/26/11 5:33:37 PM#54
Originally posted by timtrack

[quote]Please, don't make the system even more Fisher-Price! Give us more options, not LESS. Lets have some variety in classes and chars.[/quote]


If you think about it, this does give more variety then the current system. "Less is more" is a good expression here. Instead of being locked down to a specific tree as it is now, you get to freely pick from "core" skills from all 3 "tree's". I see allot of potential for more varied builds, and more fun making and testing them. Instead of "hmm should i pick 2% increased stats on X or 1 second reduced cooldowns on skill Y" you get "do i want an awesome X or an awesome Y". Whatever you pick, it defines your prefered playstyle. You either get a way to Shadow Step around, or a way to move faster alot more, for example, both with pro's and con's.


PvP balance could also take a turn to the better with this system. This way skills can be properly pitted against each other and then tweaked to balance, without the tweak affecting 100 other parameters.

Sorry, but that is complete nonsense.   The prior expansion dumbed the game down some, this just gives you very few options now.  It is a complete dumb down now with little way to differentiate your character.

  felbladex

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/08
Posts: 34

10/26/11 6:17:09 PM#55

Originally posted by Purutzil

This talent change is just... just stupid. Cookie cutter builds are a problem? Alright, lets make it an even more dumbed down system where you need to choose! Guess what blizz, in the world of 'maximizing' a character, there are going to be things always picked and if anything there will be less builds to use. Sure cookie cutter builds were there before, but they will exist again. Now instead of having maybe 1 talent swap difference in adjustment, its more likely people will have the same exact build to maximize their character. Its basically Wow talents 1.0... with a lot less choices and variations. You made it from having 2 cookie cutter builds or variations in builds to 1, and pretty much just screwed over any 'unique' ability to a character. Sure cookie cutter builds existed, but this system that your trying to 'stop it' from happening is just making it worst. You pretty much did absolutely NOTHING to fix the problem your claiming this to fix.




Overall, while I feel its stupid its not a big deal for end game. Sure you make less individuality but it really isn't that much of a crunch on gameplay. The problem is this change makes leveling feel like that much less of an accomplishment. You use to get 1 talent a level. This made it feel like you actually progressed in the game where you don't have an option like putting in stats. With the wotlk change, you took that down to 2 levels and pretty much made that feeling so much weaker. If it wasn't for adjusting quests and all, I'd bet you everyone would say leveling felt a lot worst in Wotlk. 




With this change, you pretty much destroyed any sense of accomplishment. Now you level and, absolutely nothing happens. You get no reward, no sense of achievement, absolutely posatively zilch. There is a reason DDO had changed the way you level to give you essencially 'mini dings' so that you did feel like you actually progressed despite not having a level for a good length of time. This change pretty much makes you feel while leveling that you really have almost no control over your character. Your pretty much just playing along and once in a blue moon, you get to pick between three skills, most likely wanting to maximize for what you want to do so in many cases your going to pick the same options, where as before you could at the very least have some adjustment to how you built up and grabbed skills. 




TLDR: Not a huge deal for end game, but for those leveling, you pretty much destroyed any sense of achievement in leveling.  Making an aspect this game tends to faulter on that much more lack luster.





 


I've never leveled for talent dings. It used to be every level and you got skills as well. We still get skills and we'll get even more skills every level because everyone gets the skills we WOULD have achieved from talents and we get them at level up instead when this goes live. No loss in accomplishment. The thing this changed is that we will have a better versatility and instead of giving us a choice, we get to choose tank, heal, or dps on hybrids, what style of dps on dpsers like mages and hunters, and such like that. All they did was change it so that instead of giving the illusion of choice, we just play. Instead of a cookie cutter build, we get pre-cut cookies, in a sense. It's the same thing. Most skills will be given at level up instead and we'll get to choose how we want to play at any given moment.


 


I think it's a much better idea to give us versatility and the ability to change back and forth with ease rather than having to go through respecs over and over. 80% of players were bitching that 1 spec wasn't enough, so they added dual spec. People started bitching that dual spec wasn't enough and they didn't feel like there really was an actual choice in talents and they give us this. Now people are bitching that they are giving us this. The majority complains about the hard parts of the game and they make them easier, just to have people scream "Dumbed down!". People complaining is how NGE happened in SWG. After NGE people complained about it even though it was a move to appease the players. If you're not careful, you guys will get a wow NGE, because no one's ever happy with a change. Wow changes one way and everyone complains. It changes another and everyone complains.


 


Wrath was overly easy because people complained about the difficulty. Cataclysm comes out and people complain HEAVILY about the difficulty of cata heroics. What happened to cata heroics? They got "dumbed down" and don't even require any real thought or CC. As a company, it's good business sense to change based off what the majority wants. If 20% of the players want soemthing and the other 80% don't, it wouldn't do well for them to alienate 80% to appease 20%. Economics 101.


The inability to lighten up doesn't make you hardcore.

  ropenice

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 585

10/26/11 6:23:31 PM#56

Did I read right? This is too be only the 4th expansion? That seems like a low # of expansions for the length of time game has been out and the amount of money they have to spend on it. You'd think they would give more back to the millions of subscribers. EQ had more in shorter time with much lower subs, even ddo at F2P has more. Maybe I'm missing something, like other ways of adding content.


  Hoplites

Novice Member

Joined: 6/08/06
Posts: 442

10/26/11 6:31:18 PM#57

Cata talent system was fine if they followed through with Path of Titans, which unfortunately they didn't.  This new talent system is like glyphs 2.0 but more restricted, which I think is pretty bland, and offers little choice.

What I think they should do is keep Cata talent system, glyphs, but bring back path of Titans.  Yes Path of Titans offered homogeniety, but it was a choice if a player wanted mobility, dps, etc. to round out their character.

In addition,  some people would rather have an extra DPS talent over mobility, etc.  Now that choice is gone with the new talent trees.

Lets look at the Rogue tree for example:

1st tier: Stealth talents

2nd tier: Survivability

3rd tier: Survivability

4th tier:  Mobility

5th tier: Utility

6th tier: DPS talents

Currently in Cata, a Sub rogue has both Prep and Shadow step for mobility/survivability.  A sub rogue can also choose cheath death and recuperate if they want.  Now that is gone. 

A Combat rogue can have CR and Deadly Throw but now that is gone.

Yes it helps with the weaknesses of Combat, Assassination and Sub by rounding them out more, but in the end that leads to the specs playing a lot like each other.  So, now they have extended that sore point of the rogue trees to other classes which is why there is a lukewarm receptions to the tress.

 

 

 

 

 

  RaikoLives

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/09
Posts: 88

10/26/11 6:32:15 PM#58

Originally posted by Tardcore

Yeah and I hear that Baskin Robbins 31 flavors believing that sales were down due to so much customer indecision when choosing their favorite flavor of ice cream was keeping customers away, has now changed their format to Baskin Robbins 6 flavors. That should really get those cones once again selling like hotcakes.





 


They would if large numbers of the customers stood around yelling that Flavour 22 is the only one you can pick for eating in a group, while Flavour 17 was the only one you could pick for eating on your own, and that you have to take sprinkles because pieces of oreo made you gimp.


Bravo to Blizz for not letting min/maxers run their game. Keep changing the talent system as often as possible so people are alwyas having to re-learn the system. At least then those of us who enjoy playing a CHARACTER, not the same exact Pally/Lock/Priest as every other one, can just rechoose our talents and move on.


In the end, Casual Gamers and Hardcore Gamers spend the same amount on their Sub. 100 Casuals is better than 10 Hardcores.


  felbladex

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/08
Posts: 34

10/26/11 6:43:39 PM#59







Originally posted by ropenice







Did I read right? This is too be only the 4th expansion? That seems like a low # of expansions for the length of time game has been out and the amount of money they have to spend on it. You'd think they would give more back to the millions of subscribers. EQ had more in shorter time with much lower subs, even ddo at F2P has more. Maybe I'm missing something, like other ways of adding content.























 








I played EQ from release until 5 years after release. The amount of content in each expansion was barely anything and they released one every few months, charging full price for each. I actually quit at the five year mark because I couldn't keep up in the slightest. (at their five year mark they had only release about 4 expansions actually. Velious, kunark, pop, and gates of discord, I believe.) Wow releases free content updates in place of 3/4 of what could be expansions for and even higher amount of content.  I've NEVER heard someone say WoW was short on content and this is a first for me. DDO released all of their expansions / content updates for free at first, had an okay amount of content per, yet wasn't making the amount of money they needed and instead changed payment models. You now have to pay for any content (or grind favor for it for an ungodly amount of time). I wouldn't compare their model or releases and the amount of money you have to spend there to Wow. 








 








Also, everyone saying they are going to quit over this expansion, it doesn't mean much. Only like 1/100 peopel that publicly profess their "intentions" of quitting actually quit. They take the content they thought they'd hate, come up with something for why they now love it (or tolerate it) and don't do anything. I'm sure WoW expansion 5 will introduce a new race of walking poop (with Blizz's history of poop jokes and quests I'm sure this isn't a stretch) and people will take it and talk about how amazing the class' racials are. At first they will complain about it though.








 








I personally quit a good while ago, but it had nothing to do with the changes made, nor did I do it publicly. It was because the entire game is a skinner box and the amount of operant conditioning used is ridiculous. (After farming the vial of sands recipe for 5 days, 12 hours a day, I realized I couldn't grind any longer. The recipe wasn't worth it, nor was any game worth that amount of time or unentertaining grinding spent.) My wife still plays though and I still carry an interest in what happens in game.











My only real gripe was that there arew all of these changes, whether I like them or not, yet they STILL have not added a dye system to the armor like so many of their competitors have. That's such an amazing system and feels very rewarding, yet there still isn't one in game.




Edit: I quit EQ when the expansions started coming every few months, at full price, with hardly any content. Kunark, Velious and POP were released sparingly and had boat loads of content. The following ones began the decline.

The inability to lighten up doesn't make you hardcore.

  HurricanePip

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 169

10/26/11 6:51:58 PM#60

Seems like Blizzard is just re-arranging stuff vs actually creating new stuff.  Maybe it's better, maybe it's not.  Seems more like a business decision than a game decision to me.


Articles on the subject should also address what happens in between getting something cool every 15 levels.  There seems to be a big gap in character progression from the way this article was written.


If you don't worry about it, it's not a problem.

6 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 » Search