Originally posted by thg7f

I think this expac has finally cut my desire to return.  I always went back to look around in the new expac do a tier or two of raiding, but not this time.  I don't even want to anymore.  I think SWTOR will be my fix simply because I'm getting burnt out on raiding.   I would rather have insanely hard 3-5 man content and  not have to deal with getting 10-25 ppl together.  And the idea of a story driven game like KOTOR with a multiplayer function sounds amazing atleast, but I guess we'll see.

Tor has raiding, its called Opperations.

Not sure about insanely hard 5 man content.

Originally posted by thg7f

I think this expac has finally cut my desire to return.  I always went back to look around in the new expac do a tier or two of raiding, but not this time.  I don't even want to anymore.  I think SWTOR will be my fix simply because I'm getting burnt out on raiding.   I would rather have insanely hard 3-5 man content and  not have to deal with getting 10-25 ppl together.  And the idea of a story driven game like KOTOR with a multiplayer function sounds amazing atleast, but I guess we'll see.

My desire probably isn't as "cut" as yours, but I totally agree with the raiding aspects. A friend and I used to clear 5-man dungeons using our dual mages and it was a blast; I'd love to see more content that rewards skill rather than the "pull, clear group, pull clear group" bull we have now.

I think the expansion is supposed to deliver some dynamic content and different types of dungeons though, so you may get your wish. Hopefully they'll make it insanely hard, but I honestly doubt it. :(

Originally posted by grawss

Originally posted by thg7f

I think this expac has finally cut my desire to return.  I always went back to look around in the new expac do a tier or two of raiding, but not this time.  I don't even want to anymore.  I think SWTOR will be my fix simply because I'm getting burnt out on raiding.   I would rather have insanely hard 3-5 man content and  not have to deal with getting 10-25 ppl together.  And the idea of a story driven game like KOTOR with a multiplayer function sounds amazing atleast, but I guess we'll see.

My desire probably isn't as "cut" as yours, but I totally agree with the raiding aspects. A friend and I used to clear 5-man dungeons using our dual mages and it was a blast; I'd love to see more content that rewards skill rather than the "pull, clear group, pull clear group" bull we have now.

I think the expansion is supposed to deliver some dynamic content and different types of dungeons though, so you may get your wish. Hopefully they'll make it insanely hard, but I honestly doubt it. :(

Yeah I'm really hoping that dungeon challenges and Scenarios fill that nitche,  I play with 3-4 IRL friends at any given time and sometimes its frustrating trying to get a raid together, ok more than sometimes.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by The_Quester

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by The_Quester

Yes, let's all focus on Pokemon!

Gotta catch'em all!

Yeah adding in things people want is a bad thing!

shame on them!

People playing Wow ask Blizz to add a Pokemon system...... really?

Can you link me some stuff? Cause i am interested. To me this thing came out of left field. I was like that Plant Vs Zombies thing in the last expo. It just seems like they are adding random crap to keep certain people from leaving.

You are kidding right?  Honestly I'm suprised that people are complaining at all, when I was in highschool the one thing we complained about was why can't you play pokemon online.

People have asked for companion pets to DO something for years, disgusting oozling is very sought after, the lich you can buy from the store kills other critters, people freaked when they introduced that because they loved it. 

I'll look around for something that "backs up" that people want to play pokemon online and that those people also like to play WoW, but I think its just going to be a bit vague. 

Can't we just agree that a lot of people who like WoW are also gamers who played Pokemon at some point in their life, and probably would enjoy a mini game that felt similar?

I mean I know I'm 26 now, so I'm not THAT old, but Pokemon isn't too kiddy for most people is it?  Animals battling it out is kiddy?

Sorry to burst your bubble, but yes, pokemon is very kiddy to say the least. I just can't imagine anyone that is at least 20 yrs. old wanting to play pokemon online. If it was maybe animals like a hunter's pet battling it out yes, that would be interesting, but it's not. Vanity pets that battle is pretty lame and childish.

Originally posted by musicmann

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by The_Quester

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by The_Quester

Yes, let's all focus on Pokemon!

Gotta catch'em all!

Yeah adding in things people want is a bad thing!

shame on them!

People playing Wow ask Blizz to add a Pokemon system...... really?

Can you link me some stuff? Cause i am interested. To me this thing came out of left field. I was like that Plant Vs Zombies thing in the last expo. It just seems like they are adding random crap to keep certain people from leaving.

You are kidding right?  Honestly I'm suprised that people are complaining at all, when I was in highschool the one thing we complained about was why can't you play pokemon online.

People have asked for companion pets to DO something for years, disgusting oozling is very sought after, the lich you can buy from the store kills other critters, people freaked when they introduced that because they loved it. 

I'll look around for something that "backs up" that people want to play pokemon online and that those people also like to play WoW, but I think its just going to be a bit vague. 

Can't we just agree that a lot of people who like WoW are also gamers who played Pokemon at some point in their life, and probably would enjoy a mini game that felt similar?

I mean I know I'm 26 now, so I'm not THAT old, but Pokemon isn't too kiddy for most people is it?  Animals battling it out is kiddy?

Sorry to burst your bubble, but yes, pokemon is very kiddy to say the least. I just can't imagine anyone that is at least 20 yrs. old wanting to play pokemon online. If it was maybe animals like a hunter's pet battling it out yes, that would be interesting, but it's not. Vanity pets that battle is pretty lame and childish.

I see, I'll assume all the friends I have are in a minority then.

Not sure whats childish about animals fighting...  people watch Shark week and all these animals attack shows...

They said they are adding in new pets too, most of the vanity pets they have in the game are quite interesting to say the least, I don't think that the are "lame and childish" at all.  Granted a Elwyn Lamb vs a Mechanical Squirrel might be a bit silly but a Fox vs a Black cat is very "Hunter pet" like.

It seems like you are imagining the worst case scenario, the battle system will probably be very "wow" and very less "pokemon"

LM uses Logic, its super effective!

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by musicmann
...snip...

I see, I'll assume all the friends I have are in a minority then.

Not sure whats childish about animals fighting...  people watch Shark week and all these animals attack shows...

They said they are adding in new pets too, most of the vanity pets they have in the game are quite interesting to say the least, I don't think that the are "lame and childish" at all.  Granted a Elwyn Lamb vs a Mechanical Squirrel might be a bit silly but a Fox vs a Black cat is very "Hunter pet" like.

It seems like you are imagining the worst case scenario, the battle system will probably be very "wow" and very less "pokemon"

LM uses Logic, its super effective!

Um, sorry - but here:  http://www.pokemon.com/us/parents/

The second to last section is interestingly enough titled: What Your Child Can Expect

Originally posted by VirusDancer

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by musicmann
...snip...

I see, I'll assume all the friends I have are in a minority then.

Not sure whats childish about animals fighting...  people watch Shark week and all these animals attack shows...

They said they are adding in new pets too, most of the vanity pets they have in the game are quite interesting to say the least, I don't think that the are "lame and childish" at all.  Granted a Elwyn Lamb vs a Mechanical Squirrel might be a bit silly but a Fox vs a Black cat is very "Hunter pet" like.

It seems like you are imagining the worst case scenario, the battle system will probably be very "wow" and very less "pokemon"

LM uses Logic, its super effective!

Um, sorry - but here:  http://www.pokemon.com/us/parents/

The second to last section is interestingly enough titled: What Your Child Can Expect

So a section titled "parents" talks about what a parents child can expect?

Whats the story here?

.....

Edit:  This is titled "A parents guide to pokemon"  and its all about how if your child is playing pokemon what it means and how you should react to it.

You can probably find a page like this on almost any game that a child potentially might play. 

Edit 2:

http://gpfamily.blogfaction.com/article/106911/parents-guide-to-street-fighter-iv-on-360/

Oh look, Street Fighter 4 has a parents guide...

Clearly that game is for kids

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by VirusDancer

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by musicmann
...snip...

I see, I'll assume all the friends I have are in a minority then.

Not sure whats childish about animals fighting...  people watch Shark week and all these animals attack shows...

They said they are adding in new pets too, most of the vanity pets they have in the game are quite interesting to say the least, I don't think that the are "lame and childish" at all.  Granted a Elwyn Lamb vs a Mechanical Squirrel might be a bit silly but a Fox vs a Black cat is very "Hunter pet" like.

It seems like you are imagining the worst case scenario, the battle system will probably be very "wow" and very less "pokemon"

LM uses Logic, its super effective!

Um, sorry - but here:  http://www.pokemon.com/us/parents/

The second to last section is interestingly enough titled: What Your Child Can Expect

So a section titled "parents" talks about what a parents child can expect?

Whats the story here?

.....

Edit:  This is titled "A parents guide to pokemon"  and its all about how if your child is playing pokemon what it means and how you should react to it.

You can probably find a page like this on almost any game that a child potentially might play. 

 

The first sentence...

For more than 10 years, kids all over the world have been discovering the enchanting world of Pokémon.

Pokemon is a children's product.  It is not a product that a child potentially might play.  It is a product designed for children.

While you might see some teenagers continue to play up until they near 20 or even after that (afterall, look at the ages of people we have playing some of these silly MMORPGs, eh?)... they tend to be 7-15.

edit: Linking a third party parents guide for a product is not the same as the parent company including that guide...lol.

Originally posted by VirusDancer

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by VirusDancer

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by musicmann
...snip...

I see, I'll assume all the friends I have are in a minority then.

Not sure whats childish about animals fighting...  people watch Shark week and all these animals attack shows...

They said they are adding in new pets too, most of the vanity pets they have in the game are quite interesting to say the least, I don't think that the are "lame and childish" at all.  Granted a Elwyn Lamb vs a Mechanical Squirrel might be a bit silly but a Fox vs a Black cat is very "Hunter pet" like.

It seems like you are imagining the worst case scenario, the battle system will probably be very "wow" and very less "pokemon"

LM uses Logic, its super effective!

Um, sorry - but here:  http://www.pokemon.com/us/parents/

The second to last section is interestingly enough titled: What Your Child Can Expect

So a section titled "parents" talks about what a parents child can expect?

Whats the story here?

.....

Edit:  This is titled "A parents guide to pokemon"  and its all about how if your child is playing pokemon what it means and how you should react to it.

You can probably find a page like this on almost any game that a child potentially might play. 

 

The first sentence...

For more than 10 years, kids all over the world have been discovering the enchanting world of Pokémon.

Pokemon is a children's product.  It is not a product that a child potentially might play.  It is a product designed for children.

While you might see some teenagers continue to play up until they near 20 or even after that (afterall, look at the ages of people we have playing some of these silly MMORPGs, eh?)... they tend to be 7-15.

edit: Linking a third party parents guide for a product is not the same as the parent company including that guide...lol.

Again, you presenting your personal experiences as factual evidence...

Yes its a 3rd party guide, however my point remains, its a PARENTS guide, so of course they talk about it to their audience, PARENTS. 

Would you talk about how amazingly fun your game is for parents to play?  no thats not the intention of the article, its intent is to educate parents on what their game is and how many kids play it so its not harmful or determental to their health and or development.

This proves literally and absolutely nothing, it shows they know how to demonstrate their product is safe for children, that is all.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by VirusDancer
...snip...

Again, you presenting your personal experiences as factual evidence...

No.  I provided the link to the company's site.  I presented their information.

You are attempting to pass of your personal experience as factual evidence...attempting to speak for a company that has been in business for over 15 years.

Yes its a 3rd party guide, however my point remains, its a PARENTS guide, so of course they talk about it to their audience, PARENTS. 

A third party guide is not the same as a guide put out by the company developing the product.  I could put out a parents guide for vibrators.... it would not be the same as the company doing so.

Would you talk about how amazingly fun your game is for parents to play?  no thats not the intention of the article, its intent is to educate parents on what their game is and how many kids play it so its not harmful or determental to their health and or development.

Yes, because when a company is trying to sell a product to the parents of children... they will tell the parents such things.

This proves literally and absolutely nothing, it shows they know how to demonstrate their product is safe for children, that is all.

This proves that you are rather uptight about playing with a children's toy.  Many people play with such things.  There are many adults that play with Legos.  There are adults that collect various toys.  Etc, etc, etc.

Nobody thinks less of you for playing with Pokemon.  And if they do?  Why should you care?

Does not change that Pokemon are a kid's product.

Originally posted by VirusDancer

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by VirusDancer
...snip...

Again, you presenting your personal experiences as factual evidence...

No.  I provided the link to the company's site.  I presented their information.

You are attempting to pass of your personal experience as factual evidence...attempting to speak for a company that has been in business for over 15 years.

Yes its a 3rd party guide, however my point remains, its a PARENTS guide, so of course they talk about it to their audience, PARENTS. 

A third party guide is not the same as a guide put out by the company developing the product.  I could put out a parents guide for vibrators.... it would not be the same as the company doing so.

Would you talk about how amazingly fun your game is for parents to play?  no thats not the intention of the article, its intent is to educate parents on what their game is and how many kids play it so its not harmful or determental to their health and or development.

Yes, because when a company is trying to sell a product to the parents of children... they will tell the parents such things.

This proves literally and absolutely nothing, it shows they know how to demonstrate their product is safe for children, that is all.

This proves that you are rather uptight about playing with a children's toy.  Many people play with such things.  There are many adults that play with Legos.  There are adults that collect various toys.  Etc, etc, etc.

Nobody thinks less of you for playing with Pokemon.  And if they do?  Why should you care?

Does not change that Pokemon are a kid's product.

 

You can continually assert your opinion, that does not change it to a fact...

The company's site has a section FOR parents that speaks to parents about their children playing the game, in that section it talks about how children like THEIR OWN children have been playing their game for a long time, thats the kind of thing you tell parents if you want them to allow their children to play said game.

You are not considering audience or tone.

Your only evidence that pokemon is a childrens game is that they have a section on their site FOR parents. 

Really?  thats it?

Does not prove that pokemon is a kid's product.

Edit:  BTW i'm not "up tight" about playing a childrens game, nor am I upset at you calling me childish, though I must wonder why you cannot debate the facts and instead resort to name calling and insults.  :-(

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by VirusDancer
...snip...

Edit:  BTW i'm not "up tight" about playing a childrens game, nor am I upset at you calling me childish, though I must wonder why you cannot debate the facts and instead resort to name calling and insults.  :-(

I never called you childish...

...I did call you up tight about it.

That you think I called you childish at any point...

...is part of why I called you up tight.

You're being very defensive.  Why?

You have offered no evidence that Pokemon is not a child's product.  You ignore the evidence that has been offered that it is.

I could care less if you dressed up in a pink tutu, danced in the rain, while singing Metallica songs.  It has nothing to do with you.  Yet you are taking it very personally for some reason - including imagining that things have been said to insult you when they have not been.

I mean, you do realize why Satoshi created Pokemon in the first place, right?

"In the early 1990s, when Tajiri first saw two children playing together with Game Boys using the link cable, he imagined insects crawling along the cable between the two systems. As he thought about the capabilities of the link cable, his idea for Pokémon grew, as he wanted to give modern children the chance to hunt for creatures as he did as a child."

Originally posted by VirusDancer

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by VirusDancer
...snip...

Edit:  BTW i'm not "up tight" about playing a childrens game, nor am I upset at you calling me childish, though I must wonder why you cannot debate the facts and instead resort to name calling and insults.  :-(

I never called you childish...

...I did call you up tight about it.

That you think I called you childish at any point...

...is part of why I called you up tight.

You're being very defensive.  Why?

You have offered no evidence that Pokemon is not a child's product.  You ignore the evidence that has been offered that it is.

I could care less if you dressed up in a pink tutu, danced in the rain, while singing Metallica songs.  It has nothing to do with you.  Yet you are taking it very personally for some reason - including imagining that things have been said to insult you when they have not been.

I mean, you do realize why Satoshi created Pokemon in the first place, right?

"In the early 1990s, when Tajiri first saw two children playing together with Game Boys using the link cable, he imagined insects crawling along the cable between the two systems. As he thought about the capabilities of the link cable, his idea for Pokémon grew, as he wanted to give modern children the chance to hunt for creatures as he did as a child."

Again rather than focusing on the topic you focus on me, seems fishy...  Debate the facts not the person.

Your quote again does not prove the game is a "childrens game" it says he developed it with kids in mind.  Look I'm not stupid I see what  you are trying to say, yes its made with children in mind, of course it is.  NO one is debating that.

What I'm saying is that things that are made for children are not made to exlude adults, and in fact a lot of things made for children, like oh Playstation, Nintendo, Xbox, Video games in general,  Adults enjoy those too.

There is no way you can prove to me that Pokemon cannot be enjoyed by adults.

Edit: Burden of proof is on the accuser, as you accuse the game of being a childrens game, its in your court sir not mine.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by VirusDancer
...snip...

Again rather than focusing on the topic you focus on me, seems fishy...  Debate the facts not the person.

Your quote again does not prove the game is a "childrens game" it says he developed it with kids in mind.  Look I'm not stupid I see what  you are trying to say, yes its made with children in mind, of course it is.  NO one is debating that.

What I'm saying is that things that are made for children are not made to exlude adults, and in fact a lot of things made for children, like oh Playstation, Nintendo, Xbox, Video games in general,  Adults enjoy those too.

There is no way you can prove to me that Pokemon cannot be enjoyed by adults.

I never said that they could not.  Actually, that is part of what I did say.  I said it in post #30 in this thread.  You even quoted me saying it in one of your replies.  You were defensive though - you were not being rational.  That is not a case of focusing on you - that is a case of trying to point out to you that while you are being irrational - you, yourself...cannot focus on the topic and that you are derailing the thread all over the place because of that.  It is not a personal attack.  It is an attempt to bring this thread back on topic...

...some would say I was feeding a troll by doing so.

...mods would probably say I should have just ignored you.

All in all though, I'm done with replying to you...

I don't see how Laughing-man is taking it personally. He said some friends of his played it, but that's about as far as he's gone to explain his personal stance on the matter.

I'll say that I believe Pokemon was made with kids in mind, but not for kids. The Parental Guide is there because of the potentially offensive nature of the game (animal fights), not because it's made for a specific audience. All adults will make up their own mind, but parents want the option to protect their kids, so Nintendo/Game Freak are just covering their bases. This is common sense type stuff, so to use it as "proof" is laughable.

lets see, Burning Crusades: Take down the burning legions from an unknown world. Wrath of the Lich King: Destroy an evil dark lord and his undead army. Cataclysm: Fight the monstrous Dragon who destroyed azeroth. Mists of Pandaria: Attack of the Panda's....ZOMGWTFKJAFDJFSDKJFJ

Originally posted by Athillian

lets see, Burning Crusades: Take down the burning legions from an unknown world. Wrath of the Lich King: Destroy an evil dark lord and his undead army. Cataclysm: Fight the monstrous Dragon who destroyed azeroth. Mists of Pandaria: Attack of the Panda's....ZOMGWTFKJAFDJFSDKJFJ

It is not attack of the Pandas...

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mists-of-pandaria/

Originally posted by MMOtoGO

It's about Blizzard's clear statement that WoW isn't even close to bowing down to it's competition.  Every MMO under the sun has set it's target on this game and it's been ripped apart mercilously on forums such as these, yet it keeps pressing on with the healthiest subscriber base this genre has ever seen.

If there has ever been any doubt about Bilzzard's commitment to the future of WoW, it should be resolved here: WoW isn't going anywhere for a loooong time. One Blizzcon interview stated that they are currently developing new character models for all classic races (while being respectful to tradition). Clearly from the MoP gameplay the graphics engine has been improved once again.  

While I'm not a big fan of the Pandarean race or Monk Class, I have no reservations in dusting off my old toon and playing once again.

When the dust settles and gamers are finally tired of hopping from next big thing to next big thing...which game do you think they'll go back to?   I think I might finally know my answer.

Originally posted by lostkoss

Wow is dead.

 

Well, not every game designer has the ovarian fortitude to go with same sex companion adventures like TOR.

edit:  And mods, how can you slap a warning on something like this when it is an actual upcoming feature of the game.  You might as well warn people that say WoW is going to have pandas...

U realize the pandas arent the bad guys? right. They are a race we get to play as. The big bad guy i dont know who it is but its not the pandas.

The pandaran have been part of wow lore since wc3 so been around a while and i look forward to playing them and the monk class. I cant wait to see how the healing on them works or the tanking. 

as for being made for children i dont think thats true. I think wow is a family freindly game otuside of trade chat. I dont know why some people want every race to be sinister and dark and if they arent its a horrid choice.

Whimsical can work in an mmo as well as dark and creepy can. Its the same with movies and tv shows. If a show is lighthearted and campy in nature its automaticly a horrid show even if its well written and acted.

Why is everyoen so enamored with dark and brooding. I for one like a little fun in my shows movies and games. again the panda arent the bad guys so comparing them to illidian and the lk or the big bad dragon makes no sense.

They arent the bad guy they are a playable race and a race of freinds for the most part.