The way I see it SWTOR is far more affected by WoW than GW2 is.  Also I think GW2 is not that affected by SWTOR.

Fact is there is no reason to play SWTOR beyond liking star wars if you are happy with WoW.  But GW2 is a one time purchase and sufficiently different such that people who decide to play either WoW or SWTOR will often also play GW2 as well.

Edit:  the important thign to realize is it not just about the sub.  Its also about time.  You can do whatever you like time wise with GW2.  But with SWTOR or WoW very very few people will feel they have the time to justify investing in both.  It not about not being able to afford the money.  Its about not being able to justify the purchase due to lack of use.  GW2 does not have that problem.

They are certainly worried about The Old Republic and to a lesser extent, GW2 as well. Additionally the game has been hermorrhaging subscribers for a year now. To the point that they are refusing to answer questions about if they've lost nay more or what the current subscriber count is (something they never did before.

So I see worry written all over their faces. This expansion looks really rushed to me, not very well through out and frankly, awefully generic. They are even going to be offering Diablo 3 for free to any WoW subscriber who purchases a 1 year subscription to WoW. That to me means they are doing their best to try and shore up their subscribers and their money intake over the next year because they reall do expect to lose millions to The Old Republic, on top of the millions that have already left, and the millions more than will switch to GW2 (hopefully hehe).

This is also why I think their next MMOG is going to be a colossal failure. Activition is 'clearly' pushing blizzard hard on this one, hoping a new MMOG will bring back the WoW crowds when they were at their peak. But Blizzard notoriously takes years and years to finish games. Titan has been in develoment for only a few years and is supposedly set to come out next year.

On a personal level I didn't attent Blizzcon nore did I grab a virtual ticket. I've attended in one of those two ways for several years going back half a decade. But this year, I was completely uninterested. Fo Fighters are ok to me but not enough to attend or get a virtual ticket. And I really didn't give a crap about anything to do with WoW. I am looking forward to the Starcraft 2 'expansion' we were supposed to get within a year and probably won't for several yet. Diablo 3 has peetered out in my mind with all the money grubbing they are planning.

I don't know, Blizzard is just losing it's touch. With 'Mists of Pandaria' they've finally jumped the shark.

Originally posted by Requiamer

Blizz is making this for the chinese market. 1 year sub + free expansion with panda race + free D3 = win the chinese market for a year, so its like a win win situation for them. But here people here are so short sighted they wouldn't see their nose in front of their eyes.

Maybe, but China plays by time cards at a rate of ~$5USD for 66 hours of play time.  The 1 year sub is for just for NA/EU.

I wish people weren't ignorant. Even I hate WoW, but the Pandarian had always been there before Kung Fu Panda.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080830061806/wowwiki/images/thumb/b/b4/ChenStormStout2.jpg/185px-ChenStormStout2.jpg

Chen Stormstout was there at Frozen throne.

Originally posted by Kalfer

1) There is already several threads about this in the pub as well as the WoW forum. Why do you need to create threads in other games forums? To me this looks like someone taking a fanboy stab, trying to rally like minded people?

 

 

2) Had GW2 announced something like Guild Wars Factions 2 china-cantha, I bet people wouldn't be so pessimistic. The new areas look cool, the new gameplay systems are radical different from everything else they have done so far, so I think it's bull to call them out for making something different(asian expansion) and at the same time, call them out for having lack of inspiration, when they have completely turned their talent system upside down that so many games have copied, and introduced a turn based collect-o-mania mini game in the vain of the pokemon games for gameboy.

It just smells of hipsters hating to be hating.

 

3) WoW: mists of kung fu panda, is about as much a kids game as guild wars 2. sorry to say this folks, but you wont be anymore masculine or be taken anymore serious by playing guild wars 2 as opposed to a panda simulator. its all online fantasy game, and trying to better yourself from one end of the pie to another piece, is futile and useless. THEY ARE ALL COMPUTER GAMES. kids play both guild wars and wow, so they are both kids game. 

 

If you think that Blizzartd intentionalyl are targeting kids I think you're mistaken. Their target is the same as when they launched the game in 2004 with cute bubblehead gnomes and cowmen on mechanical chickens. Look at the bigger perspective and I am sure that you can see that having playable pandas are not anymore dumb or kiddie than space goats with tentacles on their face, or feline cat men with horns. it's all unrealistic fantasy. 

 

Look at Asura - tons of silly goofs in GW2 as well, and dances and weird technologies that scream of them stealing from steampunk. you can be sure that Arenanet have taken a lot from WoW and other MMOs. if your a troll you can say that they lack inspiration and they steal, or you can be an adult and realize that everybody steals, and it's not worth going nuts about.

 

 

 

 

Finally I just want to say - that all this feedback and ridicule from other games about WoW, says more about them than it does about WoW. the fear of inferiority and anger over WoWs success and the fact that it has lasted 8 years... its almost 8 years old. the game is so ancient. most games from 2004(save HL2) are rarely played... wow still has millions of players in europe/usa. 

 

SWTOR/GW2 looks great, but this self indulgence and this putting them on the pedestal over anything else is in my mind dumb. People should give credit where it's due, and WoW deserves lots of credits, even if you're bored with it out of your mind.

+1

I like how this post sums up so much and yet people just keep going on... But then again I guess the post was to inquire as to everyones opinion.

Blizzard has had a good run, however most of what attracted and kept long time player base burned out long ago, and they are trying to lure in a newer playerbase, and while it is true, a lot of their changes are "rediculous" and "self-destructive" in the eyes of the legacy players, its all part of their marketing gimmick to stay somewhat competitive.  New things always attract a pop of revenue.  Even if the game is god awful.  Final Fantasy XIV?  Sold a good few copies on that pre-order early release, and even the day 1 release.  Within the month, there were trash cans on fire in front of the Square Enix building because some people were going to hang.

I think that Blizzard has recently undertaken some severe marketing strategies to try and wring WoW around its finger, and for all we know, that could be Activision's doing, or Blizzard even trying to undermine Activision, but regardless, they introduced a "contract" for their "annual pass" to basically say "if you guarentee to pay us for a year, you can have diablo 3 for free, as well as guarenteed access to MoP beta." *jingles keys over wow player base's head*

To me, this says they want to lock in as much revenue as possible to get people with the "spend $180 dollars, get this digital copy of the game free!" sort of thing, as well as guarenteeing people access to the expansion beta, which is... downright unprofessional.  Not only are they not required to actually maintain or keep those servers in any kind of decent shape, they also do not have to keep them online for the playerbase that paid for their access.  It is no where in the annual pass's terms of use that access to the beta will be granted without fail, and as being a beta, it will likely be riddled with bugs, issues, and things that NEED to be ironed out... Thats what to expect of course, but SELLING people the opportunity to play it early is NOT testing it.  Absolutely piss poor way of testing the game.  All that is doing is getting early revenue.  And regarding Diablo 3, it costs them pennies of bandwidth to distribute digital copies of the standard edition game.  In personal opinion, I do not think the quality of WoW as it stands is worth 15 dollars a month... and something tells me Blizzard might not either.  If what I think is indeed true (since its becoming increasingly common knowledge that 15 dollars a month from a few million subscribers is not entirely paying for bandwidth as well as development + cost of running), then Blizzard really wont stand to lose any money on Diablo 3.  In fact, they are still banking on sales that it will sale regularly off the shelves and in their digital store for people who don't go the "annual pass" route.  Here's hoping that it will actually be worth the $60 they are charging for it.

What is WoW bringing to the table now?

--Panda-people (I f*ckin LOVE pandas, but damn it blizzard... This is stupid as nut)

--China (The architecture looks A MAZE ZING in their trailer, the terrain and forest/environment looks HORRIBLE (despite their terrain graphics overhaul they touted starting back in Wrath)

--Pokemon (Hell, I still play Pokemon every now and then to this day... See how long it takes me to get the original 150 again, or to rush to the end of Gold/Silver in a full clear within so many hours, but damn it, I get online to get away from my really weird addictions... to my really geeky addictions.  Get my pokemanz out of WoW)

--PvE Skirmishes (I vaguely favor this idea, however it is too little too late for myself and my friends who would have enjoyed it)

--New dungeons/raids/pvp (well you typically expect a new dungeon or raid (AT LEAST ONE DERP) with any continental expansion... its like a given with WoW; something you've come to expect)

--Re...vamped... Talent system.  (While I can say this is a completely different direction that what I expected them to say when they shouted they redid the talents, it is certainly new.  Over the years, the talent system was touted as what made this character different from that character, that one could have more crit, the other more damage to humanoids, etc... Over time, it grew bloated, and needed to have some bacon sliced off.  Thats when Cataclysm hit, knocking most of the meat off the pudgy stat-inflating system of our talent trees and left us with a sickly gazelle, capable of doing just about the same exact thing that the other gazelle was doing, because if we're going to PvE, and we want to be competitive or have fun, we're going to be this spec.  Everything else, default to that spec.  Also, lets lose a lot of really difficult to calculate numbers, and just make basic stats cover the majority of everything.  Oh, and have some mastery.  Well, now the MoP (Mists of Pandaria) comes along to scrub up the vomit players left on the floor, having had such a nausiating ride, and the MoP wrings out and lets them know that "its all going to be over soon, the talent system can't hurt you any more, and you will no longer have to be a cookie cutter of *everyone else.  I'll take that mastery back now."  And as quick as the players had been introduced to their very own sickly gazelle, it had died, leaving an ability system that you can pick to have certain abilities given to you every once in a while while leveling.  With the new system, no longer will they have to make core decisions to influence their stats or play style, they can just slap some abilities out on the tree, and the majority of them will work together, abeit a little wonky.  After a while, people realize that theres some things for some fights that just feel or preform better... Why use a strangulate when you can do a Darth Vader force choke and giggle with glee as the game simply bends over to your amazing epicness.  Its when you see that, yes, you are unique as a player and a class, just like every other player on your server that rolled the same class and spec to have the same experience... Thats when you see that little flicker of innocence that you enjoyed playing MMOs for the fun, the pay out of putting in all this hard work, and when you realize you've been paying 15 dollars a month for people who dictate what they think you want, to control how you want to play your class.  You may or may not be the most OP, but what matters is that you enjoy the class and game... Or did.  Whatever the case may be.

All I wanted to see:  A graphics engine upgrade... the game is ancient, and it still is one of the smoothest interfacable games out there, but it definitely looks dated compared to... 85% of everything released post-2005... WHICH IS ALSO ANCIENT (in MMO years.)

On to the main idea of the OP;

It is my speculation, having watched a lot of internet trends and having known a LOT of legacy WoW players, that WoW itself is a completely alien game now to how it was only a year and a half ago.  There is a great deal that comes begrudgingly accepted to the players I can talk to still playing, and there are plenty of people leaving, DESPITE light of a new expansion on the horizon.  I remember the lull in subscriber base back before BC, and before Wrath, but WoW might be moving into a recession of its own design here.  I think they are purposely loosening their grip on the blockbuster title of the MMO world, which will, in turn, reduce the amount they need to budget it as they lose player base, which will allow them to move on to bigger, brighter and more innovative things.  If MMOs were living breathing organisms (and whos to say they aren't), this section of WoW's life *should* be its golden years, as it is settling down into its own little box to keep entertaining those who want to let it live on.  What is happening rather than "golden years," its going senile and jumping wildly into traffic just so it can give something else a chance.  What does this mean for SW:TOR and GW2?  It means that Blizzard is still making a stand, though now its pushing for a different audience.  It knows that there is a player base loss coming, and it knows that it wont be easy, so it is trying to spread itself out, get as many stable flows of income to just sustain it for the rest of its life while these hot, young titles show up and try and jump for WoW's shadow.  Worst comes to worst, GW2 and SW:TOR fail, and suddenly, Blizzard takes another swing at making the world cheer for MMOs again.

TL;DR

Motha f*ckin pandas.

Old people need prune juice to keep them regular.

Old MMO hari-kari to let the new blood flow.

Originally posted by Kalfer

1) There is already several threads about this in the pub as well as the WoW forum. Why do you need to create threads in other games forums? To me this looks like someone taking a fanboy stab, trying to rally like minded people?

 

 

2) Had GW2 announced something like Guild Wars Factions 2 china-cantha, I bet people wouldn't be so pessimistic. The new areas look cool, the new gameplay systems are radical different from everything else they have done so far, so I think it's bull to call them out for making something different(asian expansion) and at the same time, call them out for having lack of inspiration, when they have completely turned their talent system upside down that so many games have copied, and introduced a turn based collect-o-mania mini game in the vain of the pokemon games for gameboy.

It just smells of hipsters hating to be hating.

 

3) WoW: mists of kung fu panda, is about as much a kids game as guild wars 2. sorry to say this folks, but you wont be anymore masculine or be taken anymore serious by playing guild wars 2 as opposed to a panda simulator. its all online fantasy game, and trying to better yourself from one end of the pie to another piece, is futile and useless. THEY ARE ALL COMPUTER GAMES. kids play both guild wars and wow, so they are both kids game. 

 

If you think that Blizzartd intentionalyl are targeting kids I think you're mistaken. Their target is the same as when they launched the game in 2004 with cute bubblehead gnomes and cowmen on mechanical chickens. Look at the bigger perspective and I am sure that you can see that having playable pandas are not anymore dumb or kiddie than space goats with tentacles on their face, or feline cat men with horns. it's all unrealistic fantasy. 

 

Look at Asura - tons of silly goofs in GW2 as well, and dances and weird technologies that scream of them stealing from steampunk. you can be sure that Arenanet have taken a lot from WoW and other MMOs. if your a troll you can say that they lack inspiration and they steal, or you can be an adult and realize that everybody steals, and it's not worth going nuts about.

 

 

 

 

Finally I just want to say - that all this feedback and ridicule from other games about WoW, says more about them than it does about WoW. the fear of inferiority and anger over WoWs success and the fact that it has lasted 8 years... its almost 8 years old. the game is so ancient. most games from 2004(save HL2) are rarely played... wow still has millions of players in europe/usa. 

 

SWTOR/GW2 looks great, but this self indulgence and this putting them on the pedestal over anything else is in my mind dumb. People should give credit where it's due, and WoW deserves lots of credits, even if you're bored with it out of your mind.

This post pretty much sums up my personal opinion in a better way  I could write.

Also I would like to add, WoW is a great game. It's probably one of the best online games of the decade. Hence why it had 12 million subscribers at it's peak. It's polished. Everything is guaranteed to work. Still has some great lore and story line. Good animations. And whether you like the cartoon-ish graphics or not, you have to admit they are still good.

The reason everyone hates WoW comes from 3 sources.

1) WoW almost freakin 8 years old. What games do you know that's lasted 8 years with at least 10 million people that play it? Most games you pick up, play through once, and then move on. Technology has come quite a long way since 2004. The game is old. You can see the signs of aging. There is only so much they can do now unless they completely remake the game.

2) It's human nature to grow bored of something when you are constantly exposed to it. When you've played WoW every day for 7 years straight, chances are you at some point will get burned out. You WILL grow bored. It doesn't matter if the game is the greatest thing since sliced bread, you will at some point grow bored with it. Everyone here will eventually grow bored with GW2, SWToR, or other future MMO of their choice, and everyone here will take a break at some point or another.

3) The third reason is very plain and simple: it's the largest MMO of our time. It's THE game to beat. It's natural for people to want the most powerful thing to fall.

To sum it up, WoW is an excellent game. Some people may be able to go back and play it, and they may have a blast. That's great. And then there's some of us who are so burned out from WoW that the only way we'd go back is if it pretty much became a new game. Personally, I probably won't go back. I'm so burned out from WoW that I can't even imagine myself playing another second of it. But that's fine.

Originally posted by miteshu

I wish people weren't ignorant. Even I hate WoW, but the Pandarian had always been there before Kung Fu Panda.

 

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080830061806/wowwiki/images/thumb/b/b4/ChenStormStout2.jpg/185px-ChenStormStout2.jpg

 

Chen Stormstout was there at Frozen throne.

On the subject of Kung Fu Panda, the Pandaren were farmers and monks who loved to drink beer and fist fight. They weren't the master martial artist panda people of this expansion. So yes, the WoW iteration of the Pandaren are absolutely a Kung Fu Panda ripoff.

But that argument is pointless when you realize the whole Pandaren thing in Warcraft 3 was an april fools joke. That's why people are up in arms, they weren't a 'real' part of the universe, they were a joke, and a lot of poeple had a blast with it and laughed their arses off. But at the end of the day it was just some crazy idea they pulled out of their butts because it was funny and then shelved as just that, a crazy april fools joke (essentially 'just' like the Commando Class april fools joke we had last year for GW2). They even brought them back for an April Fools joke with WoW. Anyone remember 'Pandaren Express'?

Now all of a sudden, devoid of ideas, they pull that april fool's joke off the shelf and go 'lets actually put them in the game!' Thus, they have jumped the shark.

Originally posted by Fion

On the subject of Kung Fu Panda, the Pandaren were farmers and monks who loved to drink beer and fist fight. They weren't the master martial artist panda people of this expansion. So yes, the WoW iteration of the Pandaren are absolutely a Kung Fu Panda ripoff.

But that argument is pointless when you realize the whole Pandaren thing in Warcraft 3 was an april fools joke. That's why people are up in arms, they weren't a 'real' part of the universe, they were a joke, and a lot of poeple had a blast with it and laughed their arses off. But at the end of the day it was just some crazy idea they pulled out of their butts because it was funny and then shelved as just that, a crazy april fools joke (essentially 'just' like the Commando Class april fools joke we had last year for GW2). They even brought them back for an April Fools joke with WoW. Anyone remember 'Pandaren Express'?

Now all of a sudden, devoid of ideas, they pull that april fool's joke off the shelf and go 'lets actually put them in the game!' Thus, they have jumped the shark.

How can they be rip off when they existed long before the movie? Samwise Didier, major blizzard artist, painted them for decades, long before Warcraft 3. You can still find his Warcraft 3 art with hidden ninja pandas everywhere.

Dwarves, gnomes, goblins were all joke races in Wacraft 2. What`s your point?

It won't affect GW2 at all.

BlizzCon is only a convention of news, for the fans.

GW2 is not coming soon. So the little kid whining and the rage from the haters that don't play wow will have the time to go down.

Majority of the WoW players are happy with the new expansion.

And otherwise I guess WoW will die for the... 14908th times.

Not that I care, I don't play WoW. But I still am allowed to have an opinion and my opinion is that they've jumped the shark. The games forums are seathing with people who think this was a stupid idea. Whether it will turn out to be their big mistake, we'll just have to wait and see.

This IS the Guild Wars 2 forums so you should expect to hear GW2 fans to talk about the subject.

Originally posted by Requiem6

It won't affect GW2 at all.

BlizzCon is only a convention of news, for the fans.

GW2 is not coming soon. So the little kid whining and the rage from the haters that don't play wow will have the time to go down.

Majority of the WoW players are happy with the new expansion.

And otherwise I guess WoW will die for the... 14908th times.

I invite you to go to YouTube and look at the Likes/Dislikes for the WoW expansion trailers, starting with MoP and then working backwards.

I'll help you out: 

MoP : 17,405 likes, 15,706 dislikes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyeZ8khSEC0)  - 47.4% disapproval

Cataclysm: 45,724 likes, 3,432 dislikes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq4Y7ztznKc)  - 6.9% disapproval

WoTLK: 4,692 likes, 311 dislikes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF_1Pk_4UZk) - 6.2% disapproval

Burning Crusade: 912 likes, 79 dislikes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAcRW--q-fk) - 7.9% disapproval

That's the cold, hard facts.  No spin, no deception, no emotion.

Now, watch the opening ceremony to Blizzcon 2011: http://www.own3d.tv/video/243876/Blizzcon_2011_Opening_Ceremony

Fast forward to 44:56. Listen to the audience.  About 4 outbursts of cheers: screenshot of one of the Asian dungeons, screenshot of the panda, screenshot of the monk and the end of the video.  Seems pretty listless response to me for a new expansion.  Looking at the other Blizzcon streams, it seems they drop the audience reaction and just use the MoP soundtrack. Conspiracy?  Probably not.  

However, that trailer didn't floor me like it did with WoTLK and given the numbers, I'm not the only one that thinks that way.

Originally posted by grouchomarx

Originally posted by Requiem6

It won't affect GW2 at all.

BlizzCon is only a convention of news, for the fans.

GW2 is not coming soon. So the little kid whining and the rage from the haters that don't play wow will have the time to go down.

Majority of the WoW players are happy with the new expansion.

And otherwise I guess WoW will die for the... 14908th times.

I invite you to go to YouTube and look at the Likes/Dislikes for the WoW expansion trailers, starting with MoP and then working backwards.

I'll help you out: 

MoP : 17,405 likes, 15,706 dislikes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyeZ8khSEC0)  - 47.4% disapproval

Cataclysm: 45,724 likes, 3,432 dislikes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq4Y7ztznKc)  - 6.9% disapproval

WoTLK: 4,692 likes, 311 dislikes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF_1Pk_4UZk) - 6.2% disapproval

Burning Crusade: 912 likes, 79 dislikes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAcRW--q-fk) - 7.9% disapproval

That's the cold, hard facts.  No spin, no deception, no emotion.

Now, watch the opening ceremony to Blizzcon 2011: http://www.own3d.tv/video/243876/Blizzcon_2011_Opening_Ceremony

Fast forward to 44:56. Listen to the audience.  About 4 outbursts of cheers: screenshot of one of the Asian dungeons, screenshot of the panda, screenshot of the monk and the end of the video.  Seems pretty listless response to me for a new expansion.  Looking at the other Blizzcon streams, it seems they drop the audience reaction and just use the MoP soundtrack. Conspiracy?  Probably not.  

However, that trailer didn't floor me like it did with WoTLK and given the numbers, I'm not the only one that thinks that way.

I rofl'd hard at the suddenly silent audience.  Except for the pet battling system, some people thought that was decent enough for a "wooooo..."

Yes it was easily the most tepid response I've ever heard from any Hordecon announcement as far back as the the first show. Cataclysm I remember most recently ended with a thundering roar. This was chirping crickets by comparison.

The 'new talent system' was particularly funny as all chears died instantly as everyone realized the game would once again break half the classes and ruin the barest semblence of balance the game has finally managed to achieve after 7 years. Granted the concepts of the new system that I've seen has dumbed it down to a dramatic extent. For any that didn't know, there are now six talents per tree, three trees per class. You choose a talent every 15 levels (of 3 choices available).

Yes that's right.. 3 choices every 15 levels with six talents at level 90. I guess they finally decided on to give up trying to balance the game and went the kiddy route.