Since the NDA for members of the press was lifted today . I took the time to look at a few Beta reviews most seam to be possative but with one small criticsm in a couple .

Its not casual enough for the modern mmo gamer .

Well thank god for that . Do we need another facepalm easy MMO like the modern day Warcraft ?

NO!! imo

Theres casual and theres casual . Whats the point in a game where you know you going to succed all the time .I don't expect TOR will be that difficult or extreme hardcore but thankfully it sounds like there will be some challenge in it .

Sounds like its a game for gamers as opposed to a game for very young children or novice/extremly casual gamers .

While I do sympathise some people may only have an hour or so to play a day to cater an entire game to them to me doesn't make sence . Thankfully it seams it doesn't make sence to Bioware either .

I was a little concerned it may be another cakewalk like WoW but that concerns been put to rest somewhat . So I've pre-ordered .

I am really hoping there will be no such thing as "welfare epics", and that the raids are quite intense...Yes I'm a MMO Elitist!  What of it...

Can you supply links to those write-ups, or at least quote the parts that say the game isn't too casual?

I've played the beta at length, but can't share my opinion with you because of Bioware's retarded effing NDA. Idiots.

One of the reviews mentioned level 20 in 20 hours and most mention almost exclusively solo play, seems pretty casual to me.

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Originally posted by TheMaelstrom
Can you supply links to those write-ups, or at least quote the parts that say the game isn't too casual?
 
I've played the beta at length, but can't share my opinion with you because of Bioware's retarded effing NDA. Idiots.

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I can't believe Bioware created this NDA thing for its beta testers. It's crazy that they are doing something no other gaming company in the history of gaming has ever done. Idiots!!!

Originally posted by TheMaelstrom

Can you supply links to those write-ups, or at least quote the parts that say the game isn't too casual?

 

I've played the beta at length, but can't share my opinion with you because of Bioware's retarded effing NDA. Idiots.

Wasn't the NDA lifted yesterday? Or rather...most of it?

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Originally posted by BizkitNL

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Originally posted by TheMaelstrom
Can you supply links to those write-ups, or at least quote the parts that say the game isn't too casual?
 
I've played the beta at length, but can't share my opinion with you because of Bioware's retarded effing NDA. Idiots.

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Wasn't the NDA lifted yesterday? Or rather...most of it?

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I believe it was just lifted for the press. They all were limited to the early stages of the game so level 1-15 or 20 or something like that.

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Originally posted by TheMaelstrom

Can you supply links to those write-ups, or at least quote the parts that say the game isn't too casual?

 

I've played the beta at length, but can't share my opinion with you because of Bioware's retarded effing NDA. Idiots.

Wasn't the NDA lifted yesterday? Or rather...most of it?

A part of it was lifted for the press.

It's still fully intact for normal players and even partly intact for the press.

It's not really any different from how things usually go. Just a rather vocal bunch of people have gotten it into their heads that this is one giant conspiracy to get as many pre-orders as possible before releasing a broken unfinished product and then changing Bioware's name into something unpronouncable and fleeing to venezuala.

I see. Thanks!

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Originally posted by TheMaelstrom

Can you supply links to those write-ups, or at least quote the parts that say the game isn't too casual?

 

I've played the beta at length, but can't share my opinion with you because of Bioware's retarded effing NDA. Idiots.

Wasn't the NDA lifted yesterday? Or rather...most of it?

Only for the press.

OP: Once again it boggles down to your definition of "casual".

People have different variables about what it means. Some thing it's related to;

a)  difficulty. a casual gaming experience is not difficult and does not require much thought.

b) time investment. a casual experience can be difficult and extremely challanging but it's not focused on forcing you to play for hours at a time without a chance for a break.

Lot's of people enjoy a challenge, but lot's of people have responsibilities and other interests besides their MMO. If you have a significant other, sports, other games, movies and so on, that you do every day, it's difficult to sacrifice 4 hours a day to play. In my opinion everyone who suggests that everyone should be subjugated to such time investments should be renounced and ridiculed in the streets of Tripoli!

Look at Demons Soul. you can make a hardcore gaming experience that will kick your ass without wasting ones time.

hardcore MMORPGs of the past where not challanging because they where not difficult(not all of them but many), but challanging because they demanded you forfeit lots of other stuff in your daily lives so you could play enough to be the best. not because you where a Tzu art of war king of strategics, but just because your helmet had those crazy stats and turned everything into easy mode. 

From what I have read, gear counts for around 10% of the power balance, which is a lot less than in WoW, and I think that's great. I hope they keep it up with that. depth through mastering your class should take significant priority over anything else. 

Originally posted by Struggs

 

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Originally posted by TheMaelstrom
Can you supply links to those write-ups, or at least quote the parts that say the game isn't too casual?
 
I've played the beta at length, but can't share my opinion with you because of Bioware's retarded effing NDA. Idiots.

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I can't believe Bioware created this NDA thing for its beta testers. It's crazy that they are doing something no other gaming company in the history of gaming has ever done. Idiots!!!

 I'm still under NDA for games that have launched successfully and faded into obscurity years ago. Gaming companies do this all the time. In fact most of them do it always. It's nothing new. Bioware has always managed it's game releases carefully and Lucasarts insists on it.  The only idiots are the people who thought Bioware would change longstanding methods just to appease them.

Actually i think the OP knows what casual is

adjective

5.irregular; occasional: a casual visitor.

I would say the abiliy to level to cap solo would fit #2, and 5 (the others 1,3,4 wouldnt apply here), since a player a) doesnt actually require to group to make cap ie the without serious intention #2 definition and b) can leve at their own pace #5 definition while all MMO fall into #5 not all fall into #2

Originally posted by Kalfer

 

Lot's of people enjoy a challenge, but lot's of people have responsibilities and other interests besides their MMO. If you have a significant other, sports, other games, movies and so on, that you do every day, it's difficult to sacrifice 4 hours a day to play. In my opinion everyone who suggests that everyone should be subjugated to such time investments should be renounced and ridiculed in the streets of Tripoli!

 

A very good point here ( maybe not the one they were going for)  and that point is , some mmorpg's are not for everyone , and if you cant or just dont want to put in the  time required  for the game, then dont play  it  and most definatly dont attempt to get it changed to meet your needs, but the good thing is  that generaly there are games for everyone out there .

Originally posted by PKJackCrow

Actually i think the OP knows what casual is

cas·u·al

adjective

1.

happening by chance; fortuitous: a casual meeting.

2.

without definite or serious intention; careless or offhand; passing: a casual remark.

3.

seeming or tending to be indifferent to what is happening; apathetic; unconcerned: a casual, nonchalant air.

4.

appropriate for wear or use on informal occasions; not dressy: casual clothes; casual wear.

5.irregular; occasional: a casual visitor.

I would say the abiliy to level to cap solo would fit #2, and 5 (the others 1,3,4 wouldnt apply here), since a player a) doesnt actually require to group to make cap ie the without serious intention #2 definition and b) can leve at their own pace #5 definition while all MMO fall into #5 not all fall into #2

Words are just tools. I don't think a dictionary accurately portray the meaning that people give words. Which explains why words change meaning over time.

One should just be on the same ballpark about what is meant. Everything else is misunderstandings and pie. mmm pie.

I'm just saying people keep useing this word but i don't think they knwo what it means

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Originally posted by zymurgeist

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Originally posted by Struggs
 

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Originally posted by TheMaelstrom
Can you supply links to those write-ups, or at least quote the parts that say the game isn't too casual?
 
I've played the beta at length, but can't share my opinion with you because of Bioware's retarded effing NDA. Idiots.

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I can't believe Bioware created this NDA thing for its beta testers. It's crazy that they are doing something no other gaming company in the history of gaming has ever done. Idiots!!!

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 I'm still under NDA for games that have launched successfully and faded into obscurity years ago. Gaming companies do this all the time. In fact most of them do it always. It's nothing new. Bioware has always managed it's game releases carefully and Lucasarts insists on it.  The only idiots are the people who thought Bioware would change longstanding methods just to appease them.

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I hope that was in response to Maelstrom, as for my portion I was being a smartass and yes I will admit that. I honestly don't care about it being lifted or existing. My decision to try the game has been made regardless of what may come from the lifting of the NDA.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Struggs

 

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Originally posted by TheMaelstrom
Can you supply links to those write-ups, or at least quote the parts that say the game isn't too casual?
 
I've played the beta at length, but can't share my opinion with you because of Bioware's retarded effing NDA. Idiots.

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I can't believe Bioware created this NDA thing for its beta testers. It's crazy that they are doing something no other gaming company in the history of gaming has ever done. Idiots!!!

 I'm still under NDA for games that have launched successfully and faded into obscurity years ago. Gaming companies do this all the time. In fact most of them do it always. It's nothing new. Bioware has always managed it's game releases carefully and Lucasarts insists on it.  The only idiots are the people who thought Bioware would change longstanding methods just to appease them.

Well that one flew right by you :) 

I recently fired up Dirt 3 for a laugh through the trial on "onlive" just to test it out. I wanted to test it out quickly so stuck it on "casual" difficulty.

The car guided its self along rails.

The car breaked when coming into corners.

The car corrected its self when i made mistakes.

This is what casual gaming is. Not how long it takes to do something, but how easy it is to do it. I for one renounce the word casual gaming and curse its very existance.

Originally posted by PKJackCrow

I'm just saying people keep useing this word but i don't think they knwo what it means

Actually people are using the term "casual player" meaning "casual MMORPG player" specifically.  Linking the definition of the word "casual" is no more helpful than linking the definition of the word "player" when you're talking about a specific concept that defined by mulitple words.  If you had linked a defition of "casual MMO player", it would have been more helpful to the discussion.   In your own words , you keep using this term but i don't think you know what it means.  :)

Anyhow.  Casual gameplay can be thought of on two axis.  One axis is the amount of time invested in playing (i.e. X hours per day) and the other axis being the intensity of the gameplay.  

For example, you can have a player that plays 12 hours a day, knows absolutely nothing about gameplay mechanics.  Spends a lot of time afk, chatting about football and in the last 3 years of play, he has managed to get 8 different character to level 10 and one to level 22.   You would think that someone that plays 12 hours a day is "hardcore", right?  But no, this clearly is a casual player due to the intensity of the gameplay.

On the flipside, there is someone like me.  I play EQ2 for under 20 hours a week.  However, 12 of those hours are spent raiding top end content as the leader of a fairly successful guild.  Rest of the time is carefully invested in other pursuits having to do with the progression of my guild and/or my character.   Every minute i spend online is carefully invested in meaningful gameplay.  I have a solid understanding of what's going on with the game and with my character.   So, i played 15 hours last week.  Am i a "hardcore" player?  Certainly not due to the time-investment.  But my approach is that of a hardcore player.  So i'm somewhere in the middle of casual-hardcore scale.

TL;DR  -  casual is not only about "how much" you play, but also about "how" you play.  

In terms of a game being "casual" - it means that the game is friendly towards

a.  people that don't have a lot of time to play

and / or

b.  people that aren't interested / capable of figuring out complex game systems.

For example, EVE is certainly friendly for people that don't have a lot of time.  but people that can't figure shit out are screwed.  SWTOR certainly sounds like it's casual-friendly in every possible way.