Its no doubt WoW was a clone within itsself, taking things from other games such as EQ and built upon that, there is nothing wrong with that, EQ did many many things right, WOW did/does make make many things right as well, if WoW can be a clone of multiple games and still reign on top and be a great game, why cant other mmorpgs? Answer because they are WoW clones done wrong.

If you are going to follow the WoW formula do it right, Wow from the start even though it had many technical issues had many epic moments, I played many of these so called WoW clones and I have yet to find those epic moments I found in WoW or even in EQ, but were gonna talk about WoW right now since that is what most people are saying mmorpgs are cloning from now, even some reports say SWTOR is trying to clone as well.

even though I remember playing WOW and the quest were fun but generic such as being in the barrens and having to kill X birds for Y, I remember doing these generic quest but feeling my heart pump as I saw a high level alliance player and seeing behind him an army of alliance players coming for the barrens and wondering where to hide so I was not killed I see a army of horde members coming straight for the barrens soon finding my self surrounded by a huge war and the war did not consist of just high level members but members of all levels from 10 to 60 supporting and fighting each other, and even I joining the battle to push the alliance all the way back to ashara, those were epic moments something WoW did right, solo 1v1 pvp may have been unbalanced but group PVP is what WOW excelled at but later ruined but thats a whole different topic, so why not copy these aspects, the aspects of what made WoW great, and even currently/ not to long ago WoW has had many epic moments and great game play

the dungeon/raid battles are very epic so  me may not see it but fighting a legendary dragon in WOTLK the ground below you breaking apart and flying on the dragon aspects to do the final battle with the boss.

If youre going to clone WoW just dont clone the classes or the UI or the quest, clone the epic moments and build upon them. Yes you shouldnt have to clone and be original but this topic is about IF YOU are going to clone, clone it right.

1 post and he says WoW clone.

End of.

Because WoW is evil and must be stopped, so all games that have something in common will be considered "just another WoW clone" and a dismal failure unless it doubles the playerbase WoW has, makes it go F2P or just close its servers and everyone working in blizzard either get laid off or perform seppuku, at which point every game coming out in the future will be referred as "(insert new dominant game name here) clone" and from that point on will be considered the new evil that needs to be stopped.

mmo's ask buyers to put up with too many things that would be dealbreakers for any other genre...and a large amount of people are already too deep into WoW and the connections they made playing it, which is why it persists(no, it's not because it's so great especially since WotLK). no way in hell a new game repeating those old mistakes will take off and stay afloat. it also doesn't hurt that from a technical standpoint(playability, polish, shit working like intended) WoW is head and shoulders above even the majority of MMO's released after it.

MMO's keep on rushing release and hyping the shit out of the same old crap...and then leaving the mistakes/outdated, unfavorable design choices Blizzard made untouched.

- imbalanced PVP

- shitty quest design that makes fellow players your enemy.

- endgame=raiding and grinding, and the loot distribution makes people dickish and hostile.

- combat system unchanged, not even attempting any improvements.

- tacking on some gimmick that's not really the core gameplay, and will be unheard of/unused after a few months.

Originally posted by Chimps

1 post and he says WoW clone.

End of.

Whether you like it or not. "WoW Clone" is a classification that is running rampent for a reason in our game genre.

Although he has a point, WoW is and of itself a "Niche" genre. There are several TIMES the amount of players who HATE World of Warcraft, but are split up into 20 or so online games. WoW is simply the "largest" SINGLE MMO.

That being said, "WoW" clones cannot succeed because the originional will always be of higher quality. We don't need more "Rip-Offs" of WoW. We need more innovative MMOs that try their OWN path.

 It's like asking why Dante's Inferno isn't as popular as God of War (debateble, hated GoW lol), or why classic game characters like mario are still around and relevant.

 Because the copies came after the fact and weren't what popularized the way a lot of things are being done now.

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

That being said, "WoW" clones cannot succeed because the originional will always be of higher quality. We don't need more "Rip-Offs" of WoW. We need more innovative MMOs that try their OWN path.

Under this theory GW2 can never have instanced raiding because WoW 's main focus was instanced raiding. I like instanced raiding, but I do not like Blizzard as a company.

People are seriously getting this wrong. We like WoW, but do not like Blizzard. They are slow and more prone to release a vanity item, then a content patch. That is why I left.

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by Chimps

1 post and he says WoW clone.

End of.

Whether you like it or not. "WoW Clone" is a classification that is running rampent for a reason in our game genre.

 

Although he has a point, WoW is and of itself a "Niche" genre. There are several TIMES the amount of players who HATE World of Warcraft, but are split up into 20 or so online games. WoW is simply the "largest" SINGLE MMO.

 

That being said, "WoW" clones cannot succeed because the originional will always be of higher quality. We don't need more "Rip-Offs" of WoW. We need more innovative MMOs that try their OWN path.

WOW Clone is over used by people who aren't old enough to really know anything about games pre-WOW. 

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by Chimps

1 post and he says WoW clone.

End of.

Whether you like it or not. "WoW Clone" is a classification that is running rampent for a reason in our game genre.

 

Although he has a point, WoW is and of itself a "Niche" genre. There are several TIMES the amount of players who HATE World of Warcraft, but are split up into 20 or so online games. WoW is simply the "largest" SINGLE MMO.

 

That being said, "WoW" clones cannot succeed because the originional will always be of higher quality. We don't need more "Rip-Offs" of WoW. We need more innovative MMOs that try their OWN path.

The original doesnt have to be the higher quality case in point EQ and WoW. When EQ was still on top.

Because people are sick of the same old same old.

It's like drinking Coke for 10 years and then switching to Big K Cola.

When games launch, they don't compete with the launch of WoW; they compete with WoW of today.

Originally posted by precious328

Because people are sick of the same old same old.

 

It's like drinking Coke for 10 years and then switching to Big K Cola.

 

When games launch, they don't compete with the launch of WoW; they compete with WoW of today.

Aren't there more people still playing WOW than all the other MMOs put together? Makes your statement rather redundant.

Originally posted by Nomis278

Originally posted by precious328

Because people are sick of the same old same old.

 

It's like drinking Coke for 10 years and then switching to Big K Cola.

 

When games launch, they don't compete with the launch of WoW; they compete with WoW of today.

Aren't there more people still playing WOW than all the other MMOs put together? Makes your statement rather redundant.

That is a sad indictment on the MMO industry.  That the most popular game is 6 years old.  But the first poster was correct and your point is redundant, whether WOW has a large subscriber base or not, games companies can not sell an idea in the boardroom if WOW is not mentioned, or so it seems.  Read up on inertia and buy some Coke when you next see St Nicholaus in your local shopping mall.   

In general I think the majority of "People" in the world arent that exceptional in many facets of life; including intelligence, etc.. I  generally have opinions outside of the "majority".   This also can be translated to the majority of MMO-players.

The thing is WoW clones are succeding.Mcdonalds head above most fast food resturants but there is checkers,white castle,In and out burger,Hardee are they failing? No people see MMO not making WoW money assume they are failing.WoW clones are not failing Rifts isn't failing,Aion isn't failing.Just like Burger King and Wendies have found their place in the market .I also believe that Guild Wars 2 will be the "Subway" of the MMO market are redifine how themeparks are made and have as much success WoW use their own version of themepark model

This fast food talk has made me hungry

WoW clones can succeed.  I think SWTOR will be an example.  I also think Rift is an example. 

For a game to be a success doesn't mean it needs 11 million subs, it need to have enough revenue to fund development while turning a profit.

Also, in teh early stages of planning and development, the investors need to be confident their investment will turn a profit.  This is why all games start out as "WoW Clones" since that's what investors see as the biggest success.

Originally posted by luckturtz

 

The thing is WoW clones are succeding.Mcdonalds head above most fast food resturants but there is checkers,white castle,In and out burger,Hardee are they failing? No people see MMO not making WoW money assume they are failing.WoW clones are not failing Rifts isn't failing,Aion isn't failing.Just like Burger King and Wendies have found their place in the market .I also believe that Guild Wars 2 will be the "Subway" of the MMO market are redifine how themeparks are made and have as much success WoW use their own version of themepark model

This fast food talk has made me hungry

No their not succeeding when your lower to mid level player base is almost non existant or you have to join a guild just to play with other players or talk to other players because the population is so small, thats not a success. When you see lower level to mid level cities almost all dead with no one wandering about and these mmorpgs have only been out for a year or a little less than a year, thats not a success, thats just sad.

Originally posted by Puremallace

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

That being said, "WoW" clones cannot succeed because the originional will always be of higher quality. We don't need more "Rip-Offs" of WoW. We need more innovative MMOs that try their OWN path.

Under this theory GW2 can never have instanced raiding because WoW 's main focus was instanced raiding. I like instanced raiding, but I do not like Blizzard as a company.

 

People are seriously getting this wrong. We like WoW, but do not like Blizzard. They are slow and more prone to release a vanity item, then a content patch. That is why I left.

That's funny...because GW2 doesn't have instanced raiding. Go figure. In fact, it doesn't need it, and never will.

Must be why you like Rift. It's a smaller, streamlined and shallow version of WoW...without Blizzard.

The problem with WoW clones not succeeding the same way WoW did is simple - the developers believe the BS they are shoveling, and have bought into the conventional wisdom hook, line, and sinker. These "experts" take a distilled checklist of what they believe are WoW's core features and carry them over like gospel...with seemingly no understanding at all of what makes these games good, or successful, or anything. They treat each feature as a standalone thing that must follow the formula, and pay little or no attention to the cohesiveness of their game, or internal consistency. Nobody makes a world...they just make what they THINK is a good game. It's like trying to create a car just as good and just as popular as a BMW by just looking at the outside from 10 feet away.

Originally posted by Squiggie

WoW clones can succeed.  I think SWTOR will be an example.  I also think Rift is an example. 

For a game to be a success doesn't mean it needs 11 million subs, it need to have enough revenue to fund development while turning a profit.

Also, in teh early stages of planning and development, the investors need to be confident their investment will turn a profit.  This is why all games start out as "WoW Clones" since that's what investors see as the biggest success.

I think WoW and even guildwars pushed the envelope for game success no you dont need 11 million subs but a healthy player base among all levels is what a mmorpg is needed in my opinion for success no it doesnt need a million level 1s or 2s running around, but the only time you can group with some one is when you join a guild or having to wait hours just for a group to form and your mmorpg has been out for little less than a year, thats not a success.

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by Chimps

1 post and he says WoW clone.

End of.

Whether you like it or not. "WoW Clone" is a classification that is running rampent for a reason in our game genre.

 

Although he has a point, WoW is and of itself a "Niche" genre. There are several TIMES the amount of players who HATE World of Warcraft, but are split up into 20 or so online games. WoW is simply the "largest" SINGLE MMO.

 

That being said, "WoW" clones cannot succeed because the originional will always be of higher quality. We don't need more "Rip-Offs" of WoW. We need more innovative MMOs that try their OWN path.

No the thing is he claims WoW is original.

But if every other game is WoW clones then congrats WoW is a Everquest/Lineage clone. Considering WoW is a clone of those games that means every other game is as well.

Hence why saying WoW clone makes no sense.

Originally posted by Squiggie

WoW clones can succeed.  I think SWTOR will be an example.  I also think Rift is an example. 

For a game to be a success doesn't mean it needs 11 million subs, it need to have enough revenue to fund development while turning a profit.

Also, in teh early stages of planning and development, the investors need to be confident their investment will turn a profit.  This is why all games start out as "WoW Clones" since that's what investors see as the biggest success.

WoW-formula games only "succeed" if they change their criteria for success as they go along.

The whole point of pitching the WoW clone to the board room is that you are shooting for mass market success...they are pitching WoW-like sub numbers as the central reasoning for following the same old conventional wisdom. When the game releases and they don't even get 1/10 of WoW's numbers, and then quickly drop off to maybe 1/4 of what they started with...that's a mass market failure, and a complete failure to meet the initial expectations they gave to their investors.

Sure, they can then claim that they are a niche success...but moving the target after you pull the trigger generally isn't a good way to win marksmanship contests.