Originally posted by Diovidius

So you're denying organized pvp was the only intended endgame of prophecies? The fact that part of the players played the game for other purposes than organized pvp is irrelevant. As I said the lore about 'The Guild Wars' is there as a nice backstory to support the GvG-focus.

Yeah, I'm denying organized PvP was the only intended end-game. It was a very big part of it, but not the only part.

And of course the lore is there as a backstory to support the gameplay. That's the entire purpose of lore in video games. Why on earth would they make a backstory that didn't support but contradict the gameplay?

There be plenty of pvp in the game for folks who like it and GuildWars do not mean pvp only, while ofc its a part of it a simple thing like a leaderboard that keeps track of guild pve stats is already a guildwar. just depents how wide you wish to see it.

fact is that they are a company who like their product to be big and the pvp niche only aint good for it. thats why there is this huge pve world and surounding mechanics, but they dint forget about pvp at all. theres a whole hidden land you can spent allyour time in never leaving it having pvp 100% of the time + its smaller battlefields.

the only thing it wont have is pvp in the pve world, everyting else it gots.

Originally posted by gobla

Originally posted by Diovidius

So you're denying organized pvp was the only intended endgame of prophecies? The fact that part of the players played the game for other purposes than organized pvp is irrelevant. As I said the lore about 'The Guild Wars' is there as a nice backstory to support the GvG-focus.

Yeah, I'm denying organized PvP was the only intended end-game. It was a very big part of it, but not the only part.

And of course the lore is there as a backstory to support the gameplay. That's the entire purpose of lore in video games. Why on earth would they make a backstory that didn't support but contradict the gameplay?

Backstory/Lore in many rpg's is a component in and of itself to be enjoyed and to be immersed in, this was not the case with the story of 'the Guild Wars'.

About the endgame. What does the usual pve endgame of mmo's look like? Grinding for xp/abilities, grinding for titles, grinding for items and grinding for vanity items. Only grinding for vanity items existed in Prophecies (although later in the developement of the game that changed). So yes, there were some non-pvp things to achieve but they were so minor that it is hardly believable they were meant to be 'endgame'.

Originally posted by Cruoris

yeah!  i dont understand why a game with the lore background such as it is, has once again left the players with "some loose alliance of ex foes who blah blah....now on the same team and not warring, so much as little mini area fighting."

 

they way the local event thing works should be easily modified to allow player to raid eachothers towns etc and really declare some meaningful long term territorially base warfare. 

i would dedicate my life to a bastard love child of guild wars and planet side.  what is the hold up on a game like this?  at least give us a server, or some huge open PVP continent...

No guild wars? What exactly do you think WvWvW is eventually going to change into?

Guild Wars became famous because of its PVP... (and no subscription). PVE was just there so you could learn your character, and prep you for end game. PVP should remain their focus. People want to kill other people. If you don't enjoy being ganked. Hello Kitty is coming out right? There you go :D 

Originally posted by Xiro

Guild Wars became famous because of its PVP... (and no subscription). PVE was just there so you could learn your character, and prep you for end game. PVP should remain their focus. People want to kill other people. If you don't enjoy being ganked. Hello Kitty is coming out right? There you go :D 

Guild Wars became famous because of it's balanced organized instanced PvP, yes, not it's open world PvP because open world PvP did not exist in GW1.

Originally posted by Diovidius

Originally posted by gobla

Originally posted by Diovidius

So you're denying organized pvp was the only intended endgame of prophecies? The fact that part of the players played the game for other purposes than organized pvp is irrelevant. As I said the lore about 'The Guild Wars' is there as a nice backstory to support the GvG-focus.

Yeah, I'm denying organized PvP was the only intended end-game. It was a very big part of it, but not the only part.

And of course the lore is there as a backstory to support the gameplay. That's the entire purpose of lore in video games. Why on earth would they make a backstory that didn't support but contradict the gameplay?

Backstory/Lore in many rpg's is a component in and of itself to be enjoyed and to be immersed in, this was not the case with the story of 'the Guild Wars'.

About the endgame. What does the usual pve endgame of mmo's look like? Grinding for xp/abilities, grinding for titles, grinding for items and grinding for vanity items. Only grinding for vanity items existed in Prophecies (although later in the developement of the game that changed). So yes, there were some non-pvp things to achieve but they were so minor that it is hardly believable they were meant to be 'endgame'.

Thus explaining why the devs added two giant dungeons you had to have completed most of the game for to stand a chance and that provided you with absolutely no benefit in PvP whatsoever....

Just because you feel PvE end-game = gear grind doesn't mean that's actually the case. End-game is content at the level cap. There was plenty of PvE and non-guild PvP content at the level-cap.

Yes it's named after the "great guild war" event

Yes it lay the foundation to guild vs guild pvp in the first game

Yes GW2 have yet to mention anything about guild pvp yet

but

GW2 uses the same setting and world as original guild war, hence the name guild war stay

and

Mountain size dragon are throwing the world and all it's population in a state of chaos, heck even inter species conflict stop to make way to the new struggle in the world of tyria is facing, so it's logical that intra species strife and conflict will be put on hold too for the time being.

Originally posted by Cruoris

Originally posted by gobla

Originally posted by Cruoris

can ANYONE explain the title of this game plz? 

It's named after a historical event that happened in the lore before the first game.

i see, now the GUILD WARS are all over then?

It's really no different than if WoW had a part 2 called World of Warcraft II  or like Everquest has EQ2.....which, I must say, is nothing like Everquest except for the lore and places in the game.....

Same thing.  I don't see the big deal.

For those that are interested:

Prophecies released with 25 coop missions and 205 quests.  Although this seems a small number, remember that the goal of this game was to provide constant updates to the game in roughly 6 month increments...which on average Arenanet accomplished.

The ultimate mission quest/count of all 3 games:

58 co-op missions

More than 650 quests.

Not bad for a 'PvP only' series.

Want to do your own math...here's the link http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Storyline

Originally posted by Roybe

For those that are interested:

Prophecies released with 25 coop missions and 205 quests.  Although this seems a small number, remember that the goal of this game was to provide constant updates to the game in roughly 6 month increments...which on average Arenanet accomplished.

The ultimate mission quest/count of all 3 games:

58 co-op missions

More than 650 quests.

Not bad for a 'PvP only' series.

Want to do your own math...here's the link http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Storyline

We were talking about prophecies, not guild wars as a series. Yes, it's true Anet turned more and more towards a PvE-focus after the release of prophecies because they noticed people played and enjoyed PvE a lot more than Anet expected, that has nothing to do with how prophecies was intended to be played.

i dont think that theyll remove the pvp "system" they used in GW
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Player_versus_Player
there was a lot PVP for PUGS but also some for organized teams like 

---

Codex Arena — two organized teams of four compete using only a limited pool of skills; the Codex.

Heroes' Ascent — two organized teams of eight compete in a variety of trials, ending in the Hall of Heroes

Guild versus Guild — two organized teams of eight attempt to kill each other's Guild Lord

---

Originally posted by zipzap

i dont think that theyll remove the pvp "system" they used in GW
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Player_versus_Player
there was a lot PVP for PUGS but also some for organized teams like 

---

Codex Arena — two organized teams of four compete using only a limited pool of skills; the Codex.

Heroes' Ascent — two organized teams of eight compete in a variety of trials, ending in the Hall of Heroes

Guild versus Guild — two organized teams of eight attempt to kill each other's Guild Lord

---

All modes of PvP in GW2 have been announced: Structured PvP (with a hot-joinable mode and a tournament mode) and WvWvW, that's it. Although Structured PvP has a few different types of maps of which only Conquest is known at the moment.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Player_versus_Player

If we want to get into the nity-gritty of the lore, there are at least 3 seperate guild wars. The most recent in the lore culminating with the charr taking advantage of the weakened state of the humans causing the Searing and the cataclysm of Orr. The first guild war is mentioned in the chronicles of Dwayna where the humans has recklessly squabbled over the gift of magic, resulting the creation of the bloodstone seals and the keystone crafted from King Doric's blood. The second guild war is only mentioned briefly in the Prophesies pre-order material.

After the White Mantle took over Kryta, guilds were disbanded until emissaries of Cantha offered to open isles up for guilds to use. Canthan officials then oversaw the guild versus guild combat, turning into a sporting outlet.

And to confirm what Diovidus has been saying, the GvG was the intended endgame from the beginning. The concept for tombs/HoH was not added until the second phase of testing and was added/refined due to player feedback. The realms of the Gods were not even activated until the second live-patch and Sorrows was not added until much later.

Originally posted by Cruoris

yeah!  i dont understand why a game with the lore background such as it is, has once again left the players with "some loose alliance of ex foes who blah blah....now on the same team and not warring, so much as little mini area fighting."

 

they way the local event thing works should be easily modified to allow player to raid eachothers towns etc and really declare some meaningful long term territorially base warfare. 

i would dedicate my life to a bastard love child of guild wars and planet side.  what is the hold up on a game like this?  at least give us a server, or some huge open PVP continent...

This is how the game is built dude, deal with it. In any case you will be able to fight the guilds that are not in your server in the Mist, so what you claim is not entirely true because you will still have guild wars, not just all the wars you wanted. So ye you won't be able to war the guilds in your server, except if you switch server, or if they implement a mechanism that would let you do so. Maybe they will make an arena type for guild wars purpose who knows? They could probably let you be a traitor for your own server in the mist, but for some reason i think they will never let you do that, it just go at the opposite of the game concept, which is "cooperation". In any case i don't think it is such a big deal.

You could probably ask the same kind of question inside your guild, why is that i cannot kill the dump ass that is in my guild over and over, because i think he is a moron? Well its a bit the same here, in both case you can't because you are supposed to have a same goal. A whole server will have a same goal, which i personally think its fine. You can still fight in the Mist with other guilds, just not the same guilds you have in your server. Maybe they will let you switch server easily, but i wouldn't count on that either, seam to lead into some balance problems.

Maybe they will find a way around this and still be able to keep the main aspect they want their game be about; ie "cooperation", who knows?

"dont you wish this franchise was actual about WARS between GUILDS?"

No, not really. Anything else I can help you with?

Originally posted by just1opinion

Originally posted by Diovidius

So you want the game to go against it's fundamental design philosophy? Makes sense.

 

And the design philosophy is one that I love so dearly.  I understand why some people don't....especially gankers and griefers...but personally, I love their philosophy and find it refreshing and desirable (sp?).

 

ArenaNet isn't perfect, that's assured, but they certainly have a very good idea of what at least SOME of us WANT. Hopefully enough of us will find what they provide to be fulfilling and fun.  I know I can't wait to play.

 This ^   

Said what I was thinking :)

Well actually the OP has a point. I mean the game IS called the Guild Wars... and there are no guild wars in Guild Wars - see?

The thing is that when GW1 begun the basic concept of the game was to be warfare between guilds. However over time and during the lifetime of the game it turned out that this concept is not really that hot.. guild wars PvP was the arguably the least popular and attractive gameplay form in GW1.

Now fast forward to GW2. The "guild wars" concept  has turned out to be a dud (at least in its GW1 instanced pre-arranged form) but the original game is still called "Guild Wars". There is really no option but to retain the name, however inappropriate it might be, in order to link it up with the first game and its fans, lore, reputation etc...

Sorry, but there are no guild wars in Guild Wars. Weird, I know. But on the other hand, there is no war in World of WARcraft so there you go...

On a tangent, we might yet see something like guild wars in GW2. Maybe in an expansion? ANet has proven quite capable of adding new gameplay modes to their game(s) so we might yet see a GvG Mist-type area in a future expansion. Who knows? It wouldn't be too much of a stretch....

Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

Well actually the OP has a point. I mean the game IS called the Guild Wars... and there are no guild wars in Guild Wars - see?

The thing is that when GW1 begun the basic concept of the game was to be warfare between guilds. However over time and during the lifetime of the game it turned out that this concept is not really that hot.. guild wars PvP was the arguably the least popular and attractive gameplay form in GW1.

Now fast forward to GW2. The "guild wars" concept  has turned out to be a dud (at least in its GW1 instanced pre-arranged form) but the original game is still called "Guild Wars". There is really no option but to retain the name, however inappropriate it might be, in order to link it up with the first game and its fans, lore, reputation etc...

Sorry, but there are no guild wars in Guild Wars. Weird, I know. But on the other hand, there is no war in World of WARcraft so there you go...

On a tangent, we might yet see something like guild wars in GW2. Maybe in an expansion? ANet has proven quite capable of adding new gameplay modes to their game(s) so we might yet see a GvG Mist-type area in a future expansion. Who knows? It wouldn't be too much of a stretch....

Guild Wars (the name) has to do with lore I think not the gameplay per se...

Originally posted by paterah

Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

Well actually the OP has a point. I mean the game IS called the Guild Wars... and there are no guild wars in Guild Wars - see?

The thing is that when GW1 begun the basic concept of the game was to be warfare between guilds. However over time and during the lifetime of the game it turned out that this concept is not really that hot.. guild wars PvP was the arguably the least popular and attractive gameplay form in GW1.

Now fast forward to GW2. The "guild wars" concept  has turned out to be a dud (at least in its GW1 instanced pre-arranged form) but the original game is still called "Guild Wars". There is really no option but to retain the name, however inappropriate it might be, in order to link it up with the first game and its fans, lore, reputation etc...

Sorry, but there are no guild wars in Guild Wars. Weird, I know. But on the other hand, there is no war in World of WARcraft so there you go...

On a tangent, we might yet see something like guild wars in GW2. Maybe in an expansion? ANet has proven quite capable of adding new gameplay modes to their game(s) so we might yet see a GvG Mist-type area in a future expansion. Who knows? It wouldn't be too much of a stretch....

Guild Wars (the name) has to do with lore I think not the gameplay per se...

Yadda yadda yadda... Making up lore to explain away changes in gameplay isn't exactly the rarest flower in the game dev jungle man... I'm not saying anything, as far as I'm concerned it's perfectly legit 'cause gameplay is the king however let's not call pitchfork a spade and try to dig a ditch with it, m'kay?