Originally posted by Creslin321

The fantasy theme has been prevalent in games since Akalabeth came out in 1979 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akalabeth:_World_of_Doom).  I really don't see it going anywhere.

Is it getting old?  I doubt it in the sense of the general gaming market at least.  If fantasy has stayed strong for over three decades, I don't see it going anywhere anytime soon.

Obviously though it will get old to individuals...but I don't think so many that it will affect the market at all.

Very true I don't know that it's even an issue of I'm so sick of it I'd never play it again, well that can't be it because I still play LOTRO on occasion but it certainly has become a much greater chore to log into anything with dragons,elves.hobbit/dwarf/gnome,goblins, huge stone castles etc..

I think for me for a bit it would take a really special game to cure this malaise  or a very long spin with a nice sci fi title.

Originally posted by raistlinm

Originally posted by Creslin321

The fantasy theme has been prevalent in games since Akalabeth came out in 1979 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akalabeth:_World_of_Doom).  I really don't see it going anywhere.

Is it getting old?  I doubt it in the sense of the general gaming market at least.  If fantasy has stayed strong for over three decades, I don't see it going anywhere anytime soon.

Obviously though it will get old to individuals...but I don't think so many that it will affect the market at all.

Very true I don't know that it's even an issue of I'm so sick of it I'd never play it again, well that can't be it because I still play LOTRO on occasion but it certainly has become a much greater chore to log into anything with dragons,elves.hobbit/dwarf/gnome,goblins, huge stone castles etc..

I think for me for a bit it would take a really special game to cure this malaise  or a very long spin with a nice sci fi title.

Yeah, essentially.  That's where Global Agenda had it right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxFKDzW0qdg

Originally posted by grawss

Originally posted by TheCrow2k

I personally am over the fantasy genre for both MMO and CRPG's generally.

 

I think its over saturation in the market on both accounts, I am really looking forward to some sci-fi. I know the 40k MMO is coming (and with only 2 factions and being a WoW clone it will most likely fail hard) but I am surprised no one has done a 40k CRPG game yet. They could do an inquisition game which would give a lot of scope for building a party of characters of various races and a story that could encompass a number of planets & encounters with xeno races.

What makes you say the 40k MMOG is going to be a WoW clone? O_o

We know next to nothing about it, and although the two factions thing does point heavily to it being a WoW clone, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion until we know something about how the factions are actually going to work.

And hell, being a third person shooter/melee hybrid with aiming already sets is quite a bit apart. Having cover systems (actual cover, not some half-assed system like TOR's), heavy use of vehicles with actual physics, and making all classes damage dealers (past that I don't know if they're removing the trinity) sets it apart even more.

Um we dont know a lot about the game but we do have developer and particularly lead designer comments and interviews around what they are planning & what they would like to see in the game. The constant referal to World of Warcraft in those interviews & the fact several of the leads have said they all love WoW in interviews is cause for concern & since the "safe trend" in MMO's right now is to follow WoW.... well you do the math.

2 Factions in a game of its type is setting up for a fail, Evidently nobody in the MMORPG bizz learned a damn thing from the sick joke that was Warhammer Online.

The manual aiming for ranged is not confirmed at all BTW, we could still end up with a lousy tab targetting system. I would love the multiplayer combat system from WH40k Space Marine to be put in the MMO though that would be cool.

Alas the developer interviews thus far and their total denial that they need 3 factions does not inspire any confidence at all.

Originally posted by TheCrow2k

Originally posted by grawss

Originally posted by TheCrow2k

I personally am over the fantasy genre for both MMO and CRPG's generally.

 

I think its over saturation in the market on both accounts, I am really looking forward to some sci-fi. I know the 40k MMO is coming (and with only 2 factions and being a WoW clone it will most likely fail hard) but I am surprised no one has done a 40k CRPG game yet. They could do an inquisition game which would give a lot of scope for building a party of characters of various races and a story that could encompass a number of planets & encounters with xeno races.

What makes you say the 40k MMOG is going to be a WoW clone? O_o

We know next to nothing about it, and although the two factions thing does point heavily to it being a WoW clone, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion until we know something about how the factions are actually going to work.

And hell, being a third person shooter/melee hybrid with aiming already sets is quite a bit apart. Having cover systems (actual cover, not some half-assed system like TOR's), heavy use of vehicles with actual physics, and making all classes damage dealers (past that I don't know if they're removing the trinity) sets it apart even more.

 

Um we dont know a lot about the game but we do have developer and particularly lead designer comments and interviews around what they are planning & what they would like to see in the game. The constant referal to World of Warcraft in those interviews & the fact several of the leads have said they all love WoW in interviews is cause for concern & since the "safe trend" in MMO's right now is to follow WoW.... well you do the math.

2 Factions in a game of its type is setting up for a fail, Evidently nobody in the MMORPG bizz learned a damn thing from the sick joke that was Warhammer Online.

The manual aiming for ranged is not confirmed at all BTW, we could still end up with a lousy tab targetting system. I would love the multiplayer combat system from WH40k Space Marine to be put in the MMO though that would be cool.

 

Alas the developer interviews thus far and their total denial that they need 3 factions does not inspire any confidence at all.

 

 

 Aren't there already two mmorpgs based on Warhammer?

They must have been successful to warrant another one.

Either that or the people making these games just have a ton of cash to burn.

The fantasy genre is timeless imo.

The problem as I see it is that despite the wide range of themes/settings/atmospheres one could make within the genre, MMO's don't go very far beyond the very traditional/european fantasy setting.

I'll agree it's getting old, however I would love nothing more than to see a company come out with an MMO set in a original fantasy setting. Something that looks and feels weird/alien, take Planescape Torments setting as an example.

Too many trolls (No pun intended) or orcs or whatever they are called. Can't we make a new fantasy based race. Besides Elves, Orcs, Dwarves, Humans?

Now where did I put my Gundam!?

Not for me they are not! I love fantasy in any form :)

I think when any new race is made it gets forced into a longer dress and then covered up. 

Oh man ! This thread reminds me of how fun FFXI is when I played it.

Originally posted by 13333337

Too many trolls (No pun intended) or orcs or whatever they are called. Can't we make a new fantasy based race. Besides Elves, Orcs, Dwarves, Humans?

Now where did I put my Gundam!?

 I have this same issue.

The same races are used in almost every fantasy mmorpg and it gets so boring.

It's not exactly creative either.

To kind of add what I said earlier in the thread, it's very easy for any setting / IP to be generic to the rest.  If you really get down to it, the differences between any setting / IP are very small.  Lasers, swords, magic, orcs, etc.  You'll find them all in stuff using similiar settings.  The problem is if not enough things are done make it feel different.  You put in a reliance of magic in Tolkien's Middle Earth, then it becomes just like any generic fantasy setting.  Star Trek is another example.  In general, what makes it different than any other generic sci-fi setting?  You have empires and factions dividing space and warring with each other here and there.  You have a variety of aliens.  You have spaceships that shoot beams and projectiles, as well as shields to protect themselves.  Yet there are certain things Star Trek does that makes it unique and widely known in the world.  Disregard those characteristics, then it's just another generic sci-fi setting.

It doesn't matter if it's fantasy or sci-fi.  But it also matters what devs do to make their game feel unique, regardless of the setting they chose, established IP or not.

As far as MMORPGs go, if game mechanics are bland and the setting doesn't feel anything special, then it's no wonder you're sick and tired of it.  Whatever setting is chosen, it should immerse you.

Although plenty, I don't mind the redundant fantasy MMOs. It's my favorite theme compared to sci-fi, post-apoc, and modern time, and super hero MMOs. I'm just not a fan of the other genres.

The Star Wars franchise is my favorite. However, it's been butchered with the NGE. SWTOR is more like a single-player WoW.

No. Fantasy will never get old, especially when there are a trillion ways to sub-genre.

Compare the following fantasy...

Warhammer Fantasy

Confrontation: The Age of Ragnarok Lore

Vampire Masquerade, Medieval

Ultima Fantasy

Dungeons & Dragons Fantasy

Earthdawn (First Age Shadowrun) Fantasy

Game of Thrones Fantasy

Lord of the Rings Fantasy

Final Fantasy

King Arthur Fantasy

Romance of the Three Kingdoms Fantasy

Count of Monte Christo Fantasy

These, at least to me, are all insanely different. Take a look and compare ANY of these TWO types of fantasy and they look entirely different, just like looking at Fantasy vs Sci-Fi. The way Fantasy is such a broad genre, which merely includes the lack of modern automatic firearms and vehicles. Even so, things such as weaponry can be entirely different (including flintlock firearms, cannons, or not), Magic is unique to the genre (if it exists in it at all), and "monsters" is just a vague definition for anything that isn't human (and arguably isn't a "good race", although Elves can certainly be considered monsters). The reason Fantasy never gets old, is the same reason creativity never gets old.

Similar to what Homer Simpson said about Weird Al,

"He who is tired of Fantasy, is tired of life."

Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn

No. Fantasy will never get old, especially when there are a trillion ways to sub-genre.

Compare the following fantasy...

 

Warhammer Fantasy

Confrontation: The Age of Ragnarok Lore

Vampire Masquerade, Medieval

Ultima Fantasy

Dungeons & Dragons Fantasy

Earthdawn (First Age Shadowrun) Fantasy

Game of Thrones Fantasy

Lord of the Rings Fantasy

Final Fantasy

King Arthur Fantasy

Romance of the Three Kingdoms Fantasy

Count of Monte Christo Fantasy

 

These, at least to me, are all insanely different. Take a look and compare ANY of these TWO types of fantasy and they look entirely different, just like looking at Fantasy vs Sci-Fi. The way Fantasy is such a broad genre, which merely includes the lack of modern automatic firearms and vehicles. Even so, things such as weaponry can be entirely different (including flintlock firearms, cannons, or not), Magic is unique to the genre (if it exists in it at all), and "monsters" is just a vague definition for anything that isn't human (and arguably isn't a "good race", although Elves can certainly be considered monsters). The reason Fantasy never gets old, is the same reason creativity never gets old.

Similar to what Homer Simpson said about Weird Al,

"He who is tired of Fantasy, is tired of life."

 King Arthur fantasy is one of my favorites, but you don't really see it used very often in mmorpgs...

---

Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn
No. Fantasy will never get old, especially when there are a trillion ways to sub-genre.
Compare the following fantasy...
 
Warhammer Fantasy
Confrontation: The Age of Ragnarok Lore
Vampire Masquerade, Medieval
Ultima Fantasy
Dungeons & Dragons Fantasy
Earthdawn (First Age Shadowrun) Fantasy
Game of Thrones Fantasy
Lord of the Rings Fantasy
Final Fantasy
King Arthur Fantasy
Romance of the Three Kingdoms Fantasy
Count of Monte Christo Fantasy
 
These, at least to me, are all insanely different. Take a look and compare ANY of these TWO types of fantasy and they look entirely different, just like looking at Fantasy vs Sci-Fi. The way Fantasy is such a broad genre, which merely includes the lack of modern automatic firearms and vehicles. Even so, things such as weaponry can be entirely different (including flintlock firearms, cannons, or not), Magic is unique to the genre (if it exists in it at all), and "monsters" is just a vague definition for anything that isn't human (and arguably isn't a "good race", although Elves can certainly be considered monsters). The reason Fantasy never gets old, is the same reason creativity never gets old.
Similar to what Homer Simpson said about Weird Al,
"He who is tired of Fantasy, is tired of life."

---

Originally posted by Methos12

 

---

Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn
No. Fantasy will never get old, especially when there are a trillion ways to sub-genre.
Compare the following fantasy...
 
Warhammer Fantasy
Confrontation: The Age of Ragnarok Lore
Vampire Masquerade, Medieval
Ultima Fantasy
Dungeons & Dragons Fantasy
Earthdawn (First Age Shadowrun) Fantasy
Game of Thrones Fantasy
Lord of the Rings Fantasy
Final Fantasy
King Arthur Fantasy
Romance of the Three Kingdoms Fantasy
Count of Monte Christo Fantasy
 
These, at least to me, are all insanely different. Take a look and compare ANY of these TWO types of fantasy and they look entirely different, just like looking at Fantasy vs Sci-Fi. The way Fantasy is such a broad genre, which merely includes the lack of modern automatic firearms and vehicles. Even so, things such as weaponry can be entirely different (including flintlock firearms, cannons, or not), Magic is unique to the genre (if it exists in it at all), and "monsters" is just a vague definition for anything that isn't human (and arguably isn't a "good race", although Elves can certainly be considered monsters). The reason Fantasy never gets old, is the same reason creativity never gets old.
Similar to what Homer Simpson said about Weird Al,
"He who is tired of Fantasy, is tired of life."

---

Agreed and well put together. People who claim "all fantasy is the same and hence boring" clearly either: A) haven't been exposed to that many different types of it or B) have suffered from over-saturation of the same old approach. As diverse as fantasy is it, possibly more than any other genre out there, suffers from TONS of schlock works that just exploit the interest in the genre.

 

 I agree 100%.

Of course not all fantasy is the same, but look at how a lot of fantasy is being used in mmo's.

They aren't really that different once you get into them story and quest wise (not to mention race wise; so many elves *cough*).

Obviously in mechanics most mmo's are going to be the same.

That's a given.

DIRECT TO OP QUESTION

No, not really.

It's a genre, a shared convention. When you write "classical fantasy" you don't need to spend your time describing the world. You can concentrate on the meat of the story. Just like in western movies or cop movies. You don't need to spend the first half of the movie explaining that there are cowboys and indians and that cops hunt robbers.... or that orcs are savage and elves noble. This has its merits, believe me.

On the other hand, what you described is a stale fantasy story convention, and it's not even restricted to fantasy by far. The hero's journey thing... While veritable it's frankly grown overused in recent times. Probably due to George Lucas raping John Campbell's corpse but that's another story. Anywayz, many writers, from Fritz Leiber to George R.R. Martin proved that fantasy doesn't have to be "boy saves world" "good versus evil" thing. In that sense, Star Wars is more of a fantasy story than most sword and sorcery ones.

edit... in short, read up on some proper fantasy mate, Leiber and Martin are great and you shouldn't miss Moorcock's eternal champion series where he spoofs this "hero's journey" thing. Take a look at Pratchett too for a thorough demolition of practically any literary cliche anywhere.

edit 2... again, it's not the fantasy or "sword and sorcery" genre. It is the "hero's journey" story structure which is boring and done do death. Whether they ride dragons or spaceships, kill demon lords or crime bosses which killed their familes... or jelaous drunkard husbands beating their wannabe-writer wives... it's not the genre, it's just that damn same old damn story.

Although fantasy MMORPGs have been done and done and done.....I don't believe that the FANTASY part of the genre is getting old, we just need devs with more imagination and the money to back it.  I think SWTOR and GW2 will begin to broaden the "fantasy" part of the genre.  And before you wig out on me for calling SWTOR fantasy....it's sci-fi AND fantasy....and I think that those two games will do enough differently to make fantasy endearing again.  No, it's not the same cutesy fantasy, but it's still fantasy.

What I find extremely sad is that only one mmorpg (that I know of) has fully used dragons as a race.

There ones that sort of use it in a way where you can change parts of your body into a dragon, but the only mmorpg I know of where you can fly in the sky as a huge dragon is Horizons/Istaria.

Yet, tons of mmos have "Dragon" in their titles and often times have almost nothing to do with dragons.

It just makes me a bit sad.

Originally posted by Madimorga

You spelled imprisonment wrong.  No million dollar contract for you!

 

Seriously, yes, it's getting old.  10,000 times yes.  I never liked the fantasy mmo genre that much to start with anyway.  Sci-fi has always been less tolerant of cliches than fantasy in all the creative forms.  That's my biased opinion, but I have been reading sci-fi and fantasy for close to thirty years (written some utterly horrible and completely unsellable novels and short stories in both genres, too), so it's not a completely uninformed opinion.

Agree, for some reason sci-fi seems to be more immune to this "hero's journey" plague. But it doesn't have to be. There were much more non-standard and thoughtful sci-fis than sword and sorcery ones, although it's not exclusive by any means.

I find it highly ironic that one of the (if not THE) most popular sf IPs is actually verbatim hero's journey. I mean, Campbell, who defined the thing actually collaborated on it... Sometimes I despair for humanity, I really do.