and i even cut out a lot of it. Sorry but sometimes it is the most effective way to answer. I do hate it though.

"Home taping is killing record industry profits! We left this side blank so you can help." - the b-side of In God We Trust, Inc by the Dead Kennedys.

Piracy in the gaming industry is, or should be, a non-issue. Pretty much most games are quickly moving toward internal malls anyway. It's a neat and practical solution to the issue and one I think is quite innovative. It means even if you copied and pasted your game without paying for it, at least you pay for it in other ways. And I'm sure many forward-thinking developers are looking at things that way.

I think it ties into the eternal problem of retailing: How much is this thing I want to sell worth to my potential customers?

As someone working in the book industry in Australia, I find it amusing to hear people complain of the price of our books. Far too expensive! They should be, like, only one dollar. It's cheaper everywhere else in the world, they yell at me. They know this, because the newspapers and the tv told them last year over Christmas. We had the worst Christmas retailing because the newspapers were gleefully telling everyone new tech was cheaper. Better. So one of the major companies went bust. You could argue there were many internal reasons for this, but if they'd had the bumper Christmas we normally have, it might also be argued they may have managed to hold on for a while longer.

Instead, more than a third of the Book Industry shut pretty much overnight. Book Distributors went out of business a few nights later. Even now, the effects are being felt with the major publishers and distributors publishing and printing less and firing their own staff. Many small publishers find themselves without Distributors and collapse with no means to distribute their books effectively across the country.

The end result has been customers being even more angry at us. This time, not about the prices. But that they have had to travel more to find a bookshop. Where once we were on every street, we're now maybe a few suburbs away.

Finally, the kinds of shops which are moving into the closed shops are remainder bookshops. They sell stuff publishers couldn't sell to anyone at normal price. So, everything under ten bucks. Sounds great. But the quality really is to be questioned. Sure, you might find the odd bargain, but really. It's all rubbish. So we get more complaints that the "other bookshop" is selling garbage and it's not fair. Why my store is at fault I'm not so sure. I'm not the one selling garbage.

What did this have to do with piracy? Not much. But it's an example of that whole "voting with your wallet" thing. If you want the continued convenience, quality, and service, I'm afraid you have to pay for it. There's so many articles around complaining about the customer service of many gaming companies in particular. I won't even begin my Blizzard rant (who technically should have been able to afford at least a few people to answer emails). But if you've got a game which isn't actually bringing in enough cash to pay a few guys to sit around answering emails 24/7, then it's impossible to actually supply the service we who want stuff free and now expect.

There's an old saying I think is always very apt in arguments like this. It goes; You get what you paid for.

If piracy wasn't such a big deal, then why do these companies spend millions to prevent it? Not only that, but they drive legitimate customers away with their invasive, all too often buggy, DRM programs. I don't fall for the - "I only pirate the game to test it out". Most games have a free trial.

Using movies as an example. Maybe you are not going to pay for that movie, anways. That doesn't mean you have the right to see it for free. Go to wal-mart, steal something, and try to use the defense that you were A) not going to buy it anyways because you are a cheap freeloader(yet, ironically, you're angered by all the welfare that goes around), B) testing out the product, but you were gonna pay for it.

Don't steal. Don't be a hypocrite. Don't be a moron.

Game priacy figures are so overstated and grossly over estimated, Especially when they say things like "global piracy figure is X" because its not fair to lump China into the global figure. China has a real problem, piracy is rampant there and the government has no real interest in stopping it.

Remember before consoles really took hold & publishers were saying "were going to consoles because piracy on PC is costing us billions" it was crap then and its crap now. You dont hear much about priacy figures on PC anymore.... Instead publishers are praising the digital distribution revolution while demonizing the second hand console games market ($20 online play pass anyone ?).

Was there priacy on PC ? of course and I am pretty sure one of the leading reasons for piracy on PC was delayed global releases which is something publishers have addressed with global release dates & digital distro to the point I doubt its anywhere near the true levels it once was (excluding china & other piracy problem nations). Is there still piracy on PC ? you would be naieve to believe there was not but it was never near the levels publishers reported and I doubt the levels they report now are even close to the true much lower figures.

Again Countries like China and other problem piracy nations are another beast entirely and should be dealt with accordingly.

Originally posted by Thekandy

 

But it still wouldn't be stealing, it would be a breach of copyright.

See, i'm not telling everyone that copying for mass distribution is a good thing, i just want people to argue the correct terms and situations, not boxing everything in with terms people connect with physical violence and deprivation of property.

Still grey areas are grey, not every illegal copy optained is a sale lost, i know plenty of people who simply must have the game box or a hardcover book even if they already own the thing.

 

In the sense that it potentially takes from the owner profit that would otherwise have gone to the owner, it is stealing.  This isn't a court of law, it's a forum, but if you really want me to break out the copyright law definitions, believe me, I can.  Long and short of it is, though, if copying and distributing someone's lawful property prevents the property owner from profiting from their property, it's stealing.  It's not stealing the item, because you're right, the item is still in the possession of the owner, but by distributing the copy or obtaining it for your own use without paying when you would have otherwise bought a copy, you have stolen from the owner.  What you stole was not the property, but the profit that belonged to the owner.

Edit:  I'm not trying to be snarky with you about word definitions, though, I apologize if I've come off that way.  I simply don't care for using legal terms in this forum, pun intended, because I have almost zero respect for the law in the first place, so I prefer not to get into the nuances of legal terminology.

Didn't like this article.  Yes, modders who ruin games for others are a huge problem, but pirates are as well.  I just think the writer of this article doesn't personally feel the pain from pirates but he does modders, so that is all he cares about in his selfish way.  But believe me, a game company hates both of them equally, and they are both still a huge problem.

In fact, many modders are also pirates, and their ability to mod undetected proves they also have the ability to pirate undetected even for online games.  Pirates = Modders for the most part, so it is just misguided to pretend one is a problem but the other isn't.

And those who pirate and think it's no big deal, you are stealing and should go to jail.  Plain and simple.  If you can't afford the game, too bad.  I can't afford to take 4 week vacations boo hoo...

Originally posted by Sovrath

So if I loan a friend that movie to be viewed by 50 family members then that really does't feel so wrong. If I am loaning it to 50 people I don't know every single day then at some point very soon I know that I've gone too far.

The point still kind of remains the same though. 50 people who did not pay for that movie watched it. If they are family or friends it really doesn't matter. If you loaned it out individually to 50 people or you loaned it to one person who watched it with 49 people the math stays the same.

So often what is right or wrong is a matter of perspective and situations. Just so you know I clipped your post down for no other reasons than space.

Your Piracy rant seems limited to stupid people. Maybe you need to reasses the type of person you attract in relation to your intelligence and over-all attitude :)

Farlight ensures any monkey can and will DL and play multiple player games online. SKidrow will ensure you can play anything offline.

Any tool can call themselves a pirate, your implied rant was half hacker-related, not piracy. Also, your wording and comments...well,it doesn't take a bright person to realize you also use private trackers...so find a real reason to rant and not be so hipocritical since no one likes a douche who outs other douches :)

Originally posted by William12

Hacking Diablo 2 was awesome :) Item Grabber anyone ? lol.

 

Anyways the writer of this article is a fool any avg user can find a torrent for any single player game and install it. (they come with instructions comeon now). Even if the game requires steam theres hacked versions of steams dll file that allows you to do this. This entire article is one fool who is as dumb as the people he thinks hes writing about.

 

I can tell you this from experience, as you seem to have none, the average computer user does not know what a torrent is, they do not know what a .dll file is, and they sure as hell do not know what Steam is.  I work in tech support.  I deal with people's computer issues everyday.  Most people know how to turn their computer on, click on something on their desktop, and type in something in Google.  That is about it.   Now, there are varying degrees of knowledge across age groups of course, with the younger generation (below 40) generally knowing what the difference between a browser and a website is.  But on the whole, the average user does not know how to pirate games, regardless of instructions.

Now, I tend to agree with the author of this article.  Pirating is not as big of deal as the "industries" make it out to, in my opinion.  It's just natural to think that game developers would care more about not getting someone's money from a game, than about someone who already paid but is not playing by the rules.  But alas, I have no clue, I am not a game developer/publisher.   I do not support either and am ok with the way most developers fight the problem, except when it's too invasive (looking at you Ubisoft).

Originally posted by GreenHell

Originally posted by Sovrath

So if I loan a friend that movie to be viewed by 50 family members then that really does't feel so wrong. If I am loaning it to 50 people I don't know every single day then at some point very soon I know that I've gone too far.

The point still kind of remains the same though. 50 people who did not pay for that movie watched it. If they are family or friends it really doesn't matter. If you loaned it out individually to 50 people or you loaned it to one person who watched it with 49 people the math stays the same.

So often what is right or wrong is a matter of perspective and situations. Just so you know I clipped your post down for no other reasons than space.

If I loan the same movie out to 50 people, it's different from burning 50 copies and giving those away because 1.  Not everyone can watch it at the same time, and those who have to wait their turn might very well go buy the movie instead.  2.  The original, purchased movie is likely to get lost in the process and never make it around to 50 people anyway. 

As for loaning it to one person who then views it with 49 people, how many people can fit 50 into their living room? 

If you went out and rented a movie theater and showed a movie to 50 of your friends, I'm not sure what the law would say, but I imagine if you did it once, without trying to profit, you wouldn't be sued, much less charged with any crime, because it wouldn't be worth it to the company and it would certainly be bad publicity.  If you tried to charge money for it, however, you would probably not get away with it, or at least not very often, because then you and others who witnessed your profitable example would have motivation to keep renting out that theater and showing that movie.

As for friends and family vs strangers, what is the motive of someone copying a movie for a friend or family member?  Non-profit and not to do harm to the company or deprive it of profit, or at least that's a fair assumption.  It's simply an act of kindness toward a loved one.  What is the motivation for sharing a movie with 10,000 strangers on the internet, though? 

Piracy has always been here. It will always be here (upcoming: space pirates).

An article on some arbitrary website will never change it.

Now I'm going to browse TPB to see which movie, game, or program I'll pirate next.

I personally support game developers and purchase the games I know I want to play. Have I torrented games before, yup and probably will do it again.

Not saying I am right by any means, but it is what it is. The games I look foreward to I always purchase, games that i am on the fence about and just want to try before I buy it I will usually download and play for a bit. If I like it then I will buy it simply because I want a legit copy with the updates, patches, DLC, multiplayer, ect. I have saved money by trying out games and not liking them, then erase em from the hard drive.

My most recent PC purchase was Rage. And in all honesty I wish I would have torrented it before hand because I sure as hell would not have bought it. I requested and got credit from Steam which I used to buy another product from them.

And as for music and movies- I could give a shit- Boo F*@king hoo if the movie star only makes 25 Million this year instead of 26 Million. Same goes for most music artists who make millions upon million then want to sue the school teacher making 25k a year for downloading one of their songs.

Just my 2cp.

Originally posted by GreenHell

 

 

Lets make this easy, and start from scratch.

Stealing is wrong. Yes?  Can we agree on that?  If I go take your car its wrong.  If I go take a car from the manufacturer its wrong.  If I buy a car its right.  Done, nuff said.

If you don't have enough money for a car,  you don't get the car. Right?  If you borrow a friends car,  they no longer have that car in their possession,  you have it,  therefore there is 1 car, that 2 people have used. 

Simple enough, right?

You can sit in the car while your friend drives, or you can drive the car while your friend sits in it, or it could be one of those silly cars where both driver and passenger have steering wheels and breaks and gas pedals and you can both drive together,  but at the end of the day,  one person owns the car, the other does not.

Do we understand how ownership works?  If you could duplicate the exact model car and give it away for free at no cost, name it the same, have all features the same,  even use the manufactureres same employees and plants to build the cars,  but have every car hotwired so the manufacturers laser cut keys no longer protect the cars,  the manufacturer would see something wrong with that, don't you think?  You are taking their work,  what they did,  and giving it away at no cost.  The company loses.

I know,  hard to understand right?  What if that car is a ford and you don't buy fords?  But its free, so you'll take it, right?  You weren't going to buy it anyway,  you don't have the money,  and since they weren't going to get your business its okay to just, take a car.  Its stealing.  Remember up there, where stealing is wrong?  You can't rationalize it.  Stealing is wrong.  Pirating is stealing.  Thats all there is to it.

If it wasn't "wrong" in moral standards,  its still "wrong" in societal standards, which then is "wrong" in legal standards too.  Stealing is as wrong as, say, using your neighbors wi-fi.  You aren't paying for it,  you don't have the money for it,  and since your neighbors encryption is so easy to crack, why not steal it?  Thats not wrong is it?  Well, actually, yes it is, very much so, and its the same thing here.

Just wrap it up,  stealing internet service is wrong,  stealing cable is wrong, stealing songs, stealing games,  ponies, cars, people, guitars, lemons, taco trucks, website domain names, lobster bisque.  Stealing all those things are wrong whether you have the money to buy them or not.  Twist it how you want,  companies do lose money when you steal shit.  If you want it enough to steal it,  then you'll buy it.  Thats all.

@maskedweasal

You can't download a car.

Nah, there are situations where you could steal my car and I would not consider it wrong of you to do so.  I could make a few up, but we'll go with the tried and true:  Your granny needs emergency care right now, for whatever reason no ambulance will come get her, my car isn't in use and you can think of no reason why I would need to use it today that is as pressing as saving your granny's life.  So take the thing, already.  Put five bucks in it on the way back if you can, though.

Originally posted by DanMcC

@maskedweasal

You can't download a car.

Wh...WHAAAT?  You've destroyed my whole world!

It honestly is a good reminder of why you shouldn't want to even play Diablo 3.

Those dupers ,chinese gold farmers with auto looters, PK'ers /w hacks galore, etc., where all so unberable..

Originally posted by nontact

wow, epic comment section is epic! O_O

As a published game dev, let me say to the people above that think piracy hurts devs and sales: YOU'RE WRONG. You've been bamboozled and frankly you must be tad bit gullible.

All data shows that piracy in fact increases the demand in dollars for a game. A game that is not pirated early is a game likely to fail and not make its development costs back.

Think of pirating as free advertising, or customer driven advertising.

Most so called pirates are as describe by many above; users who download the content, look at it for an extremely short time (an hour or two) then decide if it warrants keeping on a hard drive or if its worth the purchase price. This in no way can have anything but a positive effect on sales.

Sales numbers that come out after a patched pirated release show clearly that when the pirating community breaths fresh interest into a product it translates into real-world sales.

This argument goes on inside dev studios also keep in mind with people on both sides of the argument. It generally boils down like this: Producers and marketing think pirating is wrong and they can get more money from investors if they "protect" their investment. The entire rest of the dev teams believe the opposite, that the sooner the product is leaked the better it will be for everyone involved. In fact most leaks come from within.

Do people believe hackers are breaching company security or private networks to gain early access to code so that they can release the cracked version before or at the same time as the boxed copy? The notion is ludicrous.

Devs want their products to be pirated, the more copies of their game floating around the more likely that the gaming community is likely to spend money and even save money to buy their next game.

I agree with you that "devs" (whatever) often enjoy their game as a cracked copy to spur greater sale interest.  At the same time my buff is with the op who had an argument based upon ill conceived concepts of pirating vs what happens in the real world (i.e., downloading cracked games).  

The suggestion that this is a small overall share of potentional and real game sales I believe is not fully known but what is known is that many of these games are downloaded many thousands of times.  As to this function as something positive, I believe that is largely determined along the lines of if the game in question is actually a playable game people enjoy vs. a game that is not-so enjoyable may be crushed by this leaking/cracked system.

nothing new to me here but I guess its helpfull to repeat something important: piracy doesnt kill your income, poor quality and greed does. create an amazing SP game and ppl will support your company, or even better - create a great multiplayer game and even more ppl will support you over the years

I feel like this article got side tracked somewhere in the middle.  I would generaly agree with 95% of the content though.

A person can be smart.  People are stupid.  Check.

Diablo 2 was a hackers wet dream.  Check.

As for the original topic, Pirates exist, but aren' the boogie men that developers make them out to be.  Check.   How can this be explicitly proved?  People still make f*&cking pc games!  If they weren't making any money, they'd stop making the game.