Yes... we get it.. SW:TOR will be a lot like WoW in terms of gameplay. The majority isn't disagreeing with that so can we stop making new threads about it?

Originally posted by Goatgod76

I honestly am not sure what to think of SWTOR. As one who grew up with the original movies and toys (Which I wish I still had because a lot of them are worth a mint now), I was really excited to hear a Star Wars MMO was coming out...especially when created by Bioware. But the more I see from the MMO community, the less I am wanting to play it.

And this isn't because I take people's opinions as "the word". I could care less what other's think of a game until I try it myself. It's simply the fact that if these people are the one's I'd be playing the game with, then no thanks. So many ignorant and misinformed statements and rants. The more I see, the more I tend to think I'm going to have to endure hundreds of elitist jerks with names like Hawn Solo, Boobie Fett, Leet Skywalker that are going to whine and whine until Bioware caves and makes the game just...well....unbearably easy and bland.

 

It's the community that ruins MMO's these days. Some before release (alphas/betas/official forum rants), and others after it.

I agree with you. It is almost impossible to escape these days. SWG had more Hawns, Boobies and Leets than I could have believed. In a game where you were supposed to "experience the greatest saga ever told...yours" most people just wanted to be luke. Tor will be no different.

Originally posted by Sybnal
 

Much like Rift, there is enough production value and care put into the game to make it  worth playing through I think. I got a good couple months of fun out of Rift and walked away happy. I havn't seen anything that will stop me from doing the same with KoTOR.

 

This is the sad part. I was in Rift beta...it was interesting enough, but it wore thin quickly. MMORPG's aren't suppose to keep you interested for just a few months like a console game does (Sometimes less than that). Hell...I am back playing EQ1 and having  a blast! Typed /played to see my character has logged 6 years and 278days play time. How many MMO's these days can boast holding players that long.....other than WoW possibly. But one thing I am willing to bet WoW won't accomplish is staying afloat for 13+years. The community has a MUCH shorter attention span now compared to years past.

Originally posted by Onomas

Originally posted by Phry

SW;TOR might not be changing the genre, but.. does it need changing in the first place, WoW made MMO's popular,

Yes it does. Needs changed back the way older mmo's were. All wow did was open the genre to younger folks. Because WOW really didnt offer a lot of features other games had at the time. Everyone says WOW clone this and WOW clone that, but where did WOW get its ideas from...... other mmo's.

Todays mmo's are made for kids, not adults in general. MMO's today are nothing more than console style rpgs with lots of eye candy. Half the features from older games, you just dont see anymore. There is no decay, death penalties, crafting, housing, etc. Games lead you in a direction, not allowing you to explore, work things out, use strategy much at all.

I think WOW was such a big success due tothe fact of the franchise, time allowed to make it good, money, and whatever else. Remember WOW had a pretty rocky start on opening week. Now every company is trying to copy the WOW epidemic (  ;)  ). Instead of trying new things, coming up with new ideas, or trying to be greedy with a half finished game they expect everyone to flock to. MMO's have lost their way because everyone wants to be like WOW and get that 10mil+ accounts. Its sickening what mmo's have become today.

I do hope TOR, GW2, and/or archeage go big. Im close to giving up on MMO's all together. Well REAL mmo's anyways not these half ass games that are released every other week.

 

My opinion in general, but im sure older gamers agree somewhat.

as an older gamer, i don't exactly disagree on some of the points, i did play Everquest for several years, and it was grindy as hell, i still remember hunting orcs or whatever they were for the belts to trade them in at freeport for xp.. and a bit of cash.. before moving onto ro and the crocs there..etc.. EQ was grind levels until raid level.. even the lost dungeons expansion was just another method of creating instanced dungeons to speed up the levelling process, they didnt even have much in the way of variety...  though.. i have to say.. i loved the game, but as much as i liked EQ back then, WoW improved fantasy MMO's exponentially for me, and .. given its current playerbase.. a great many others too, its not Blizzards fault that other MMO companies ruined their own games trying to mirror Blizzards success, as for the 'unfinished' MMO's that have been released in the last few years, they have paid the price.. and hopefully lessons have been learned, Trions Rift surely is a sign of improvement in that respect, and i doubt anyone seriously thinks that Bioware would allow their game to be released in an unfinished state. And with so many MMO's at or near release, it would be extremely bad business to release an unfinished game now anyway..

Perhaps what you need isnt a new style of MMO, but a break from MMO's for a while.. Burnout does happen, but its a bit like being an alcoholic, before you can address the problem, you need to admit there is one..

Originally posted by boobot

Personally I don't think any game will ever capture those great first moments you had with

your favorite MMO.  Once I stopped expecting them to do that the new MMOs became a little more better and easier to tolerate!

Ah-ha!

Well said & just how I feel also!

Originally posted by TiiKii

Originally posted by boobot

Personally I don't think any game will ever capture those great first moments you had with

your favorite MMO.  Once I stopped expecting them to do that the new MMOs became a little more better and easier to tolerate!

Ah-ha!

Well said & just how I feel also!

This big time! I ve never experienced or lasted in an MMO since day 1 to 7 years later of DAOC. I was in awe, and couldn t wait to log in every day.

That said, I can say that I will (do) enjoy SWTOR. Moreso then any game I ve played, which is alot, since I ve left DAOC. It really is a good game.

Originally posted by Wizardry

First of all i have not played one minute of SWTOR so i base what i have to say on the OP,who says he has played both Wow and SWTOR.

The op talks about a lesser version of Wow and a game that basically plays like Wow.Ok fair enoguh i can't argue and it is quite possible however.......

The op only played a very small amount of the game,actually far less than what i have played in Wow.I have played several classes in several zones always to about level 30 or so,that is a decent amount of various gameplay.

What i noticed was extremely shallow combat design,i am talking eat a sandwich and literally spam the hotbar without a care of what icon i am even spamming.OK perhaps the quests will be the same go kill 10 rats,i am not doubting that simplicity as devs are just lazy and cheap.However to say SWTOR's combat will be weaker than Wow's i find pretty much impossible to beleive,how could it get any more shallow?

What i have seen of SWTOR's combat is not a whole lot,i did manage to see a very in depth narrated BOSS fight which showed me a lot more combat structure than Wow has,i mean a LOT more.If SWTOR can carry that type of combat throught out the game and not just on BOSS or instance battles,then it is imo a better combat game than Wow.

BTW my gaming experience starts from level 1,from the first minute i step into a game,so please don't try to defend Wow's weak combat system by telling me about some Raid you were in at level 70 or something.The same will go for SWTOR,if it cannot deliver the same structure i saw in that video,then it will fail at providing a fun combat experience as i am not about to wait long periods in between to find a good fight.

I hate WOW new boss fights mechanics, I call them stupid pet tricks.  You have to do exactly this and that, in some sort of stupid choreographed dance.

"And now this boss's stupid pet trick is...." as I explained to the group I was tanking.

If anyone enjoys this type of combat mechanic, you need your head checked for cobwebs and bad wiring.

/waves hand

This is not the game you were looking for.

/walks away into the Tattoine sunset  with a dejected look

That's all I am going to say....for now. ;D

Originally posted by elocke

/waves hand

This is not the game you were looking for.

/walks away into the Tattoine sunset  with a dejected look

 

That's all I am going to say....for now. ;D

Just wondering, have you ever seen the sun rise on Tattooine?

Is it a wow-clone?  That's all I need to know.

Originally posted by gobla

Originally posted by VirusDancer

Originally posted by gobla

SWTOR wont be the game that wont make us fall back in love with MMOs.

So it will in fact make us fall back in love with MMOs?

Not necessarily... the world is so didactic, and that is why we usually fall into such logical fallacies.

In English it is necessarily....

English is not a language with negative concord (double negations reinforce each other instead of cancelling each other out).

Though he may speak a language that does have negative concord and lack sufficient knowledge of English to realize his mistake.

Anyway, not really something to get into a discussion over. Was merely pointing out that his title doesn't match his post, which amused me.

Double negatives FTW

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Ikonic

Is this a Clone of a Cloned thread that people keep bringing up over and over again?

Yes, it is part of the holy trinity of Tor bashing arguments which we'll probably never get rid off. Even post launch. My opinions on each pillar in orange (not that it will ever stop the flow of people repeating these ad nauseam).

1. It's WOW in a SW skin

There are similarities but many differences too. To name but a few differences: full voice overs, choice and meaningful alignment, much more overlapping roles, no cross server dungeon finder, companions with rich functionality, personal spaceships.

2. It's an online single player game

There are many aspect in Swtor which can be enjoyed when alone, but devs have stated again and again that it is intended as a complete mmo and that socializing will be stimulated. A few multi player facets: flashpoints, heroic quests, operations, world bosses, social points to reward grouping up, warzones, world pvp with objectives.

3. It's not innovating the genre

Maybe not in how fast paced the combat is, or by its predetermined factions and classes, but there are innovating aspects as well: full voice overs (again) and having choice and meaningful alignment (again) and the rich storylines are in fact innovating for mmorpgs and promise to be an evolution from the cookie cutter, boring, leveling process in WOW and others. But also the blend of companions and crafting is new to the genre (as far as I know).

I like how the "Full voice overs" is a big thing. Most MMOplayer just skip all the talking to be honest. Only the real or fake "Star wars fan", not the "mmofan" will really see that a big plus. Because in fact, it change absolutely nothing. And there isn't "that much" of real Star wars fan out there. Alot of them don't play game either.

No cross server dungeon finder. I wonder why you put that as a posititive, since it's not positive at all. The fact that WoW have cross-server dungeons finder IS A GOOD THING for the MMO, and I wish more MMO would do that.

Socializing is stimulated in most likely every MMO, to be honest. But unless you put a shotgun on the head on someone and tell them to talk with everyone, you can't really force people to talk to everyone and stuff. Again, star wars fan might actually have alot of thing to talk about, but the WoW-Haters or people that love sci-fi mmo, not so much. To come back to the No Cross Server Dungeon finder. That actually stimulate people to socialize with other player from other server, which is a good thing. But not because it stimulate them that people will do it.

The rich storylines ? World of Warcraft might have the best storyline, of all time. The lore behind WoW is so big, oh, you skiped all the talking and the reading, I guess you don't understand. Saying that's in SW:TOR it's innovative it's just really trying to find more and useless stuff to say about the game. It's cool to have yes, but innovative ? Not at all. Some game will have a way more richer storyline than SW:TOR.

And again, if you think the leveling process in SW:TOR won't be that boring, you're so naive. I mean, it's still a MMO, and it's the same as always. Even game like Vindictus or Guild Wars 2 that try to change the mold a bit, the leveling process will be cool at the start, but will become boring after a little bit of time.

WoW leveling process is most likely only boring because you're used to it and you've done it over and over again. After doing once in SW:TOR, it's going to be the same boring stuff over and over again.

I'll most likely be trying the game, but seriously, some of the reason peopple might say about how SW:TOR will be great are really wrong. It's so overhyped that I wouldn't be surprise that people would say something like : SW:TOR will have a cats in the game... A CAT, omg it's so inovative ! It's surely better than WoW or any other game.. THERE'S A CAT IN THE GAME !!!!!!11!1!1!1

Originally posted by elocke

/waves hand

This is not the game you were looking for.

/walks away into the Tattoine sunset  with a dejected look

 

That's all I am going to say....for now. ;D

Should be Tattoine Sunsets =).

Originally posted by Onomas

Originally posted by Phry

SW;TOR might not be changing the genre, but.. does it need changing in the first place, WoW made MMO's popular,

Yes it does. Needs changed back the way older mmo's were. 

No.

The genre itself does not need changed for that is impossible.

The genre itself needs a niche game that caters to the old school types. What you are proposing is a blanket change of each and every MMO.

(i understand that was not your intent behind the sentence, but next time you may want to expand on your opinions rather than saying it in a, "NO! It needs to be this way or not at all! GET OFF MY LAWN!" style.)

However nich games do not bring in the WoW money. 

For that matter, i dont think any MMO since WoW (excluding kroean games/) has made WoW money. And it boggles the mind as to why studios have not yet noticed this.

After december we get 7 years of SWTOR clone threads or Haters vs Lovers threads OMG:(

Originally posted by Requiem6

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Ikonic

Is this a Clone of a Cloned thread that people keep bringing up over and over again?

Yes, it is part of the holy trinity of Tor bashing arguments which we'll probably never get rid off. Even post launch. My opinions on each pillar in orange (not that it will ever stop the flow of people repeating these ad nauseam).

1. It's WOW in a SW skin

There are similarities but many differences too. To name but a few differences: full voice overs, choice and meaningful alignment, much more overlapping roles, no cross server dungeon finder, companions with rich functionality, personal spaceships.

2. It's an online single player game

There are many aspect in Swtor which can be enjoyed when alone, but devs have stated again and again that it is intended as a complete mmo and that socializing will be stimulated. A few multi player facets: flashpoints, heroic quests, operations, world bosses, social points to reward grouping up, warzones, world pvp with objectives.

3. It's not innovating the genre

Maybe not in how fast paced the combat is, or by its predetermined factions and classes, but there are innovating aspects as well: full voice overs (again) and having choice and meaningful alignment (again) and the rich storylines are in fact innovating for mmorpgs and promise to be an evolution from the cookie cutter, boring, leveling process in WOW and others. But also the blend of companions and crafting is new to the genre (as far as I know).

I like how the "Full voice overs" is a big thing. Most MMOplayer just skip all the talking to be honest. Only the real or fake "Star wars fan", not the "mmofan" will really see that a big plus. 

I view voice overs as a negative. "Back in my day..." Before VOs we used a thing called our imagination. We gave voice to the NPCs, monsters, bosses, other players, etc. Take away the imaginative aspect of gaming, and you are left with drooling, mindless zombies that act like drones, going from point A to B. 

You could argue thats why Movies made of books are almost always horrible. 

There's a flaw with the title...

If it won't be the game that won't make us fall in love with MMO's again, that kinda means it will, bud. :)

Originally posted by Swollen_Beef

Originally posted by Requiem6

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Ikonic

Is this a Clone of a Cloned thread that people keep bringing up over and over again?

Yes, it is part of the holy trinity of Tor bashing arguments which we'll probably never get rid off. Even post launch. My opinions on each pillar in orange (not that it will ever stop the flow of people repeating these ad nauseam).

1. It's WOW in a SW skin

There are similarities but many differences too. To name but a few differences: full voice overs, choice and meaningful alignment, much more overlapping roles, no cross server dungeon finder, companions with rich functionality, personal spaceships.

2. It's an online single player game

There are many aspect in Swtor which can be enjoyed when alone, but devs have stated again and again that it is intended as a complete mmo and that socializing will be stimulated. A few multi player facets: flashpoints, heroic quests, operations, world bosses, social points to reward grouping up, warzones, world pvp with objectives.

3. It's not innovating the genre

Maybe not in how fast paced the combat is, or by its predetermined factions and classes, but there are innovating aspects as well: full voice overs (again) and having choice and meaningful alignment (again) and the rich storylines are in fact innovating for mmorpgs and promise to be an evolution from the cookie cutter, boring, leveling process in WOW and others. But also the blend of companions and crafting is new to the genre (as far as I know).

I like how the "Full voice overs" is a big thing. Most MMOplayer just skip all the talking to be honest. Only the real or fake "Star wars fan", not the "mmofan" will really see that a big plus. 

I view voice overs as a negative. "Back in my day..." Before VOs we used a thing called our imagination. We gave voice to the NPCs, monsters, bosses, other players, etc. Take away the imaginative aspect of gaming, and you are left with drooling, mindless zombies that act like drones, going from point A to B. 

You could argue thats why Movies made of books are almost always horrible. 

if they'd stuck with NPC's having voice overs that would have been better imo.. by forcing the players to have them as well.. its inevitable that you will get the argument/comments that 'i don't want to be xx character because they sound like jerks/dweebs/asshats' etc.. or worse.. 'i chose xx character class because it was the only one that sounded cool'  the problems is, that no matter how many facial variations you can choose, its inevitable that there will be very limited voiceover choices for the players own toon.. which is why there should be the option to untick a box for character voices.. sometimes.. things are best left 'unspoken' ...

Just go with GW2 if u want innovation like me

Originally posted by Swollen_Beef

Originally posted by Requiem6

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Ikonic

Is this a Clone of a Cloned thread that people keep bringing up over and over again?

Yes, it is part of the holy trinity of Tor bashing arguments which we'll probably never get rid off. Even post launch. My opinions on each pillar in orange (not that it will ever stop the flow of people repeating these ad nauseam).

1. It's WOW in a SW skin

There are similarities but many differences too. To name but a few differences: full voice overs, choice and meaningful alignment, much more overlapping roles, no cross server dungeon finder, companions with rich functionality, personal spaceships.

2. It's an online single player game

There are many aspect in Swtor which can be enjoyed when alone, but devs have stated again and again that it is intended as a complete mmo and that socializing will be stimulated. A few multi player facets: flashpoints, heroic quests, operations, world bosses, social points to reward grouping up, warzones, world pvp with objectives.

3. It's not innovating the genre

Maybe not in how fast paced the combat is, or by its predetermined factions and classes, but there are innovating aspects as well: full voice overs (again) and having choice and meaningful alignment (again) and the rich storylines are in fact innovating for mmorpgs and promise to be an evolution from the cookie cutter, boring, leveling process in WOW and others. But also the blend of companions and crafting is new to the genre (as far as I know).

I like how the "Full voice overs" is a big thing. Most MMOplayer just skip all the talking to be honest. Only the real or fake "Star wars fan", not the "mmofan" will really see that a big plus. 

I view voice overs as a negative. "Back in my day..." Before VOs we used a thing called our imagination. We gave voice to the NPCs, monsters, bosses, other players, etc. Take away the imaginative aspect of gaming, and you are left with drooling, mindless zombies that act like drones, going from point A to B. 

You could argue thats why Movies made of books are almost always horrible. 

A book is hardly comparable to a quest text.

A book is able to convey emotion. A voice-over, if done right, is able to convey emotion. A single quest text is not able to convey emotion.

Voice-overs aren't removing anything, if they impede your imagination it wasn't that big anyway. They only add more information on which to base your roleplay and imagination.

Voices carry a wealth of information that text does not, it's up to you whether or not you use that information to enrich your experience.

If you really feel that less information means more imagination I suggest you take a blank sheet of paper and imagine away. Because really, all that text and all those computer models only take away the imaginative aspect of gaming, and you are left with drooling, mindless zombies taht act like drones, going from point A to B.