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Originally posted by Loke666

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Originally posted by Requiamer

I'm sorry to burst your bubble guys, but if you are a competitor, you are just not a serious one. And i personally think Swtor share the same fate as yours. Wow have a clean futur, they will probably lost a million or 2 from you both guys but not more, not for an extended time at least.

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Wow is old and is losing players now. I am not so sure it is to Rifts however, bit it will drop steady over a few years just like all old games. If that 1 million players in 9 months really is true it is faster than I thought.
There is a reason Blizz moved all the best people to Titan, they realize that Wow is now and past while Titan is the future (unless they botch it up).
I don't think Wow will loose millions of players to the same game, some will go to Rift or TOR, others to GW2 or even Diablo 3.
All games evetually gets old, even Wow and I don't think you can expect it to loose a certain number and then just stop. Sure, when other games launches the losses might go up a little temporarily, but it will most likely be a rather even flow unless something truly great releases and blows everybodys minds.

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Yes i agree with that but i don't think Rift or Swtor will accentuate this very much. And even if a migration will happen it won't be a serious one, people will come back to Wow after few months, just enough to look around those new games.

For me the trend "make a new with an old core" is just a failing method. In all gaming history, the "new made from old" worked when people totally forgot about the old. And they are like, ho look this game is like the one i played 10 years ago and it was a great game, lets try this one. But copy cats in raws are failing all the time.

Wow is old and people will go look elsewhere, but Rift and Swtor will just make those gamer homeless, that's all what they will do. Because once those people realize those new games are just copy and offer nothing better or new, but are probably gameplay wise bad copies, they will return to WOW. Then leave and search for something else and find nothing, but wandering for a new grail.

Blizzard's logic has always been that any MMO that can peel off X% of the market share is competition. By that definition, Rift is a definite 'serious' competitor. 5% of WoW's subs would be 500K = serious competition, by their standards. 

Now to suggest that Rift is the WoW killer. No.

Definitions of 'competition' are relative. Making a statement like the Rift fellow did is good for PR interest which is why it was done.

Originally posted by Digna

Blizzard's logic has always been that any MMO that can peel off X% of the market share is competition. By that definition, Rift is a definite 'serious' competitor. 5% of WoW's subs would be 500K = serious competition, by their standards. 

Now to suggest that Rift is the WoW killer. No.

Definitions of 'competition' are relative. Making a statement like the Rift fellow did is good for PR interest which is why it was done.

Well usually in the industry when you talk about serious competitor, you talk about people that are able to take enough from your share to be a real threat to your business. So obviously it is about definition.

When you see Blizzards release of WoW and how it have grown to the beast it is now you gotte give it respect.

For 7 years the undisputed king of the hill and will remain for at least a year longer.

So 1 mmo has ruled the world for 8 years and maybe longer, set record after record.

Even now with the fail expansion of cataclysm it stands lonely at the top.

It looks down on Rift / Warhammer / Aion / many other mmo's that tried to take over the crown.

But they all failed horribly one way or another.

Not saying they where all bad, but they realy lacked a fresh wind on the market....

It says more about the current Developers of mmo's then blizzards dev's.

While WoW is in decline after 7 years (wich is still quite impressive) its time for a new king to take over.

I hope SW and GW2 can do it, but it will be a tuff fight i think.

Not a WOW fan anymore (was for 6 years) give credit where credit is due people :)

SW will have a much harder time to win souls due to its monthly fee

GW2 will have it much easier to take the top spot.

Time will tell who can win the battle of the titans :) 

This is what he said; "COME AT ME BRO!!!!"

RIFT is not a serious WoW competitor.  RIFT blows WoW away...

...well, in regard to swinging the nerf/buff hammers around in a blind and drunken manner.

It's like they've tried to cram almost seven years of willy nilly FotM bouncing into seven months.

And for that, I walked away...

Rift's biggest problem is that it looks and feels liike a WoW clone. That is a real problem as neither SW:TOR or GW2 will fall into that trap.

Originally posted by Illyssia

Rift's biggest problem is that it looks and feels liike a WoW clone. That is a real problem as neither SW:TOR or GW2 will fall into that trap.

I did not feel like I was playing WoW in the least.  I take it that WoW was your first MMO?  Otherwise, you would have noted now playing WoW felt like playing other games...

Standard themepark MMO gameplay did not originate with WoW...

So, what's next? Trion will launch a ad campaign that says "You're not in the Star Wars universe anymore..." followed by a combat clip of some people killing another dragon?

He's right though. RIFT is what it is, and it will stand as such. For better or worse. 

Originally posted by kitarad

I got tired of Rift after a short while. I lasted much longer on WoW.

As did I.. Way to many rifts to even think of questing without being smacked around by critters from beyond every 100' :(

i love how u guys take for real Blizz saying that they still have 10,9mil subs..

PR does miracles in brainwashing people.

As for Rift it was a nice game, but it will die fast when new boys come up.

One thing that strikes me as funny is the way some people talk about how Rift will die when other games are released. I believe that is true of all games. We dont actually 'live' in these worlds forever. They are meant to be played for a while and then you move on. Sometimes you come back after new content is released or an xp but that is true of all mmo's. TOR players will do the same thing after the shiney has worn off. They will play it and like it (or not) and then move to another game.

It just seems silly to keep saying 'oh this game is a filler mmo'      they all are. Thats what games are.Time fillers.Very few games keep peoples attention for years and years and years and if they do? its usually because of the social reasons (friends play it family play it.etc...) NOT because of the game itself. I think people are too hard on games in general. MMO nerds are even more so. Lighten up people.

There are plenty of reasons to like many different games, why cant we just enjoy them all?

Originally posted by ioryadragon

i love how u guys take for real Blizz saying that they still have 10,9mil subs..

 

PR does miracles in brainwashing people.

 

As for Rift it was a nice game, but it will die fast when new boys come up.

 And then those games will die after 6 months? and then they will move to another game and another game and...........

short attention spans indeed.

I've enjoyed Rift since launch as has my regular group. That said, almost everyone in my raiding group has been sporting SWTOR signatures for a few months.  My plan has been to enjoy SWTOR and when I get tired hopefully, GW2 is out. If not, it might be ok to go back to Rift until GW2 comes out.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by just1opinion

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Originally posted by Nomis278

I want some of what Lars Buttler has been smoking.

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AGREED.

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I think he gets the good stuff because maybe he's from Switzerland, Holland or some Denmark or something.

 

Must be pretty good stuff to make claims like this.

HEY! I take offence to that! We're not all as stoned as Lars is :D

Originally posted by Rogosh

If swtor is trash like I am hearing, Rift will be around a long time. Gw2 really isnt competion for rift wow or swtor as it does not have a subscription and has no end game. Most people I know will be playing gw2 with at least 1 other subscription based game.

 

1) Why would GW2 being B2P make it not compete with wow?

2) "No Endgame"? Care to explain what you think is endgame, because from what i've heard (level 80 dungeons, several level 80 zones, WvWvW PvP, Competitive PvP, and the fact that you can replay every zone sidekicked down so you dont zerg it) classifies as a pretty strong endgame.

3) The thing is, even if they have another subscription game, they'll still have bought and will be playing GW2, so that doesnt change the numbers at all!

Originally posted by blueturtle13

One thing that strikes me as funny is the way some people talk about how Rift will die when other games are released. I believe that is true of all games. We dont actually 'live' in these worlds forever. They are meant to be played for a while and then you move on. Sometimes you come back after new content is released or an xp but that is true of all mmo's. TOR players will do the same thing after the shiney has worn off. They will play it and like it (or not) and then move to another game.

It just seems silly to keep saying 'oh this game is a filler mmo'      they all are. Thats what games are.Time fillers.Very few games keep peoples attention for years and years and years and if they do? its usually because of the social reasons (friends play it family play it.etc...) NOT because of the game itself. I think people are too hard on games in general. MMO nerds are even more so. Lighten up people.

There are plenty of reasons to like many different games, why cant we just enjoy them all?

Great post and so very true.

Originally posted by SBFord

According to a new interview with IndustryGamers.com, Trion's Lars Buttler, Rift has been the "most competition that WoW has ever had".

The statement came during an interview about yesterday's announcement of the Red Door gaming portal that Trion is getting ready to launch.

Further, Buttler doesn't see the December launch of Star Wars: The Old Republic as a serious threat to Rift's place in the MMO space:

"So I expect many people will try it and even people who haven’t tried Rift will try Star Wars and then we’ll see where they end up in the long run. I’m actually extremely excited about what’s happening in our space. When we started five years ago, there was only WoW. Now there’s Rift as an absolute serious contender, with the most dynamic gameplay ever. Then there’s Star Wars, then there’s End of Nations coming. Then there’s Defiance coming, which was MMORPG’s MMO of E3, ahead of Star Wars. So we’re not afraid at all. We actually look forward to it with great excitement. It makes our point."

Read the interview out takes here or the full Lars Buttler interview.

Thanks as always to Piasek for the tip!

So you saw Popinjay's topic here http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4485667#4485667 and thought it would be good material to make another one yourself, covering the same subject? But if a user even slightly touches a topic a second time, his thread gets always locked/deleted for being duplicate? You should at least have merged Popin's thread into yours, instead of "abducting"  the discussion he already started elsewhere into your thread.

I've watched this happening quite often here and as professionals you should know that this handling is a no go.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by mindblwn

I've played Rift for a month. It is WoW with better graphics/mechanics/leveling.

Actually WoW has better mechanics and leveling.  The only thing Rift trumps it on are graphics.

They are rather similar to me. As are most other MMOs for that matter, like LOTRO, EQ 1 & 2 and Meridian 59 that is 15 years old.

Lets say that Rifts graphics is better, the rest is just a matter of taste. Rifts customization is also better but it have just 4 classes which is worse.

I really don't think it is.  You can do a side by side comparison of pros and cons and WoW clearly comes out on tops in mechanics and leveling.  I think the real issue is that alot of people are just bored/tired of WoW and forget how good it is in comparison.  That's why WoW has, and maintains, massive subs numbers while everyone else is begging for scraps.

Until a MMO comes along /w better mechanics and a more entertaining leveling/endgame scenario, WoW will remain king.  

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by mindblwn

I've played Rift for a month. It is WoW with better graphics/mechanics/leveling.

Actually WoW has better mechanics and leveling.  The only thing Rift trumps it on are graphics.

They are rather similar to me. As are most other MMOs for that matter, like LOTRO, EQ 1 & 2 and Meridian 59 that is 15 years old.

Lets say that Rifts graphics is better, the rest is just a matter of taste. Rifts customization is also better but it have just 4 classes which is worse.

I really don't think it is.  You can do a side by side comparison of pros and cons and WoW clearly comes out on tops in mechanics and leveling.  I think the real issue is that alot of people are just bored/tired of WoW and forget how good it is in comparison.  That's why WoW has, and maintains, massive subs numbers while everyone else is begging for scraps.

Until a MMO comes along /w better mechanics and a more entertaining leveling/endgame scenario, WoW will remain king.  

 

And every one cries about the subs WoW has lost.  Lets just say, that for the sake of argument that they lost 1 million subs.  And all million of those came from their NA/EU sub base, which is 4 million if you want to low ball it.  So they lost 25% in an extremely exaggerated worst case scenario.

Of those 1 million people that bought Rift (and therefore were subbed for one month), how many still play?   They have lost quite a bit more than 25%...