Originally posted by Vorthanion

Considering that the majority of WoW subscribers do not participate in raiding, I find your argurment to be pointless.  In any game that has raiding as an end game focus, you'll find casuals playing all of the rest of the content and happy to do so for long periods of time.  This game isn't targeted at hardcores.  It may offer raid content, but it's not the focus and it shouldn't be.  If they want to retain the real money, then they need to keep up their current formula and support it after release. 

Then why make end game pve all about raiding not only by giving best items from raids but also linking crafting to raiding ?Also i remember some bioware developer saying that they will try to make people like raiding etc ,even their idea of a planet for solo play in end game sounds bad,like to keep those dirty "raid haters " separate from rest of the players - do they also have only one planet for raiders ?So no,SW TOR is not a casual game or you will have a lot more social activities (less "heroic" proffesions,real crafting) and a lot less "chase the epics" for the so called "hardcore".

And about casuals and non raiders being happy to be second class citizens again ,Blizzard made that mistake too with Cataclyms and lost more than 1 million subscribers so i doubt it will work better for Bioware.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Eh you might want to check your facts there buddy, it said that WoW had 2.5 million in NA and another 2 million in Europe which counts as the west, and that was listed at when WoW was around 10 million subscriptions, thats hardly at its peak when they released numbers recently totalling nearly 12 million.  We've been a a recession for a while yet,  WoW is still rolling in the subscription numbers, and thats still a small subset of the entire MMO population.  BioWare games still sell in the 3- 5 million copy range cross platform over a set amount of months.  Even analysts predicted SWTOR could easily reach the 3 million mark in the most recent article.. UP from the 2 million they originally stated.

I'm sure we'll get along in game without you,  but, judging from how often you post in the SWTOR threads, love it or hate it,  you'll end up buying it anyways.  See you in game!

Originally posted by AKASlaphappy

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Eh you might want to check your facts there buddy, it said that WoW had 2.5 million in NA and another 2 million in Europe which counts as the west, and that was listed at when WoW was around 10 million subscriptions, thats hardly at its peak when they released numbers recently totalling nearly 12 million.  We've been a a recession for a while yet,  WoW is still rolling in the subscription numbers, and thats still a small subset of the entire MMO population.  BioWare games still sell in the 3- 5 million copy range cross platform over a set amount of months.  Even analysts predicted SWTOR could easily reach the 3 million mark in the most recent article.. UP from the 2 million they originally stated.

I'm sure we'll get along in game without you,  but, judging from how often you post in the SWTOR threads, love it or hate it,  you'll end up buying it anyways.  See you in game!

Ah my bad I did not realize you meant Europe as well, I though you just meant North America, I concede your point 3 to 5 million in North America and Europe is a possibility.

 

As for the recession and Wow is still rolling on with subscription numbers, well they did almost lose a million in less than a year and from what I read most of that was in NA and Europe. How much was caused by the recession is anyone’s guess but I am betting it is not helping attract new clients.

 

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2293-WoW-Loses-600k-Subscribers-Diablo-3-Beta-Q3-2011-Arena-Passe-Blue-Posts

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2400-WoW-Lost-300k-Subscribers-Patch-4.3-this-year-Blizzcon-2011-Tickets-Blue-Posts

http://www.gamesradar.com/world-of-warcraft-loses-nearly-1-million-subscribers-in-less-than-a-year/

 

 

As for me buying it, there is a possibility since I am a Star Wars nerd and I have been since I was 5. Here is the thing though if they do not offer any more options then pay to play I will not go past the free month, I will not rent a game from a developer when I can buy others out right. I do not have that much game time anymore, so a buy to play game can last me months, so I will never spend as much on buy to play games as I would paying for a subscription for a year.  So unless Bioware provides more options in the future the most they are ever going to get from me is a box purchase, in essence enforcing pay to play has cost them a customer.

I did hear WoW is losing subscriptions,  which is a good thing in my opinion,  as we could use those subscriptions and that revenue elsewhere, even if it doesn't make its way to SWTOR.

As for renting the game,  some people don't like subscriptions,  to that I can understand,  but the way I see it:  I tip a waiter anywhere from 8 - 12 dollars on a meal, when all they do is port the food from the kitchen to my table.  Honestly the service is usually never good enough to receive the 15 - 20 percent I leave them,  but its been a standard practice people do.  

 For 15 dollars a month,  its like tipping the developers for giving me something I'm enjoying playing.  Would I like it to be free?  Yes.  Yes I would,  anyone who says they wouldn't like to just buy the box and play forever with no restrictions is a liar and a cheat,.... and a tramp.  However, if I can spare some extra cash for mediocre service at a general food establishment, I could pony up some cash to give the guys who create my entertainment preference that month.

Why are we still talking about voice-over like it's an unexplored territory?? My 4-year old PSP has many games with full voice-over.

It's like listing '3D environment' as the game's selling point. This is going to be 2012, not 2002.

Originally posted by milkpudding

Why are we still talking about voice-over like it's an unexplored territory?? My 4-year old PSP has many games with full voice-over.

It's like listing '3D environment' as the game's selling point. This is going to be 2012, not 2002.

Name me a MMO with full voiceovers

Originally posted by milkpudding

Why are we still talking about voice-over like it's an unexplored territory?? My 4-year old PSP has many games with full voice-over.

It's like listing '3D environment' as the game's selling point. This is going to be 2012, not 2002.

It is funny this one kinda minor aspect of the game is being touted as a major selling point. I guess outside of voiceovers and companions there really isn't anything Bioware can point to that won't remind people of WoW in space.

Originally posted by Guileplayer

Originally posted by milkpudding

Why are we still talking about voice-over like it's an unexplored territory?? My 4-year old PSP has many games with full voice-over.

It's like listing '3D environment' as the game's selling point. This is going to be 2012, not 2002.

Name me a MMO with full voiceovers

MMO or not, this is a game. If it's gonna convince me to shell out $15 every month on top of my time and give up all my console games and other MMOs, it should have something unique that other games don't have. NOT something like voice-over and eh...story. 

I'm not sure about you guys, I only have time to play ONE game. And i can choose it from my PC, PS3, PSP, Wii and other MMOs.

Originally posted by milkpudding

Originally posted by Guileplayer
 

MMO or not, this is a game. If it's gonna convince me to shell out $15 every month on top of my time and give up all my console games and other MMOs, it should have something unique that other games don't have. NOT something like voice-over and eh...story. 

I'm not sure about you guys, I only have time to play ONE game. And i can choose it from my PC, PS3, PSP, Wii and other MMOs.

Nm. misread post

Originally posted by milkpudding

Originally posted by Guileplayer

Originally posted by milkpudding

Why are we still talking about voice-over like it's an unexplored territory?? My 4-year old PSP has many games with full voice-over.

It's like listing '3D environment' as the game's selling point. This is going to be 2012, not 2002.

Name me a MMO with full voiceovers

MMO or not, this is a game. If it's gonna convince me to shell out $15 every month on top of my time and give up all my console games and other MMOs, it should have something unique that other games don't have. NOT something like voice-over and eh...story. 

 

I'm not sure about you guys, I only have time to play ONE game. And i can choose it from my PC, PS3, PSP, Wii and other MMOs.

So you already pay 15 dollars for another MMO right? And since you  have time to play one game then you are already not playing your console games right? Why are you posting on this board then? Because judging from your first paragraphs you play more than one game already. I thought time was limited for you. Am i right internet?

Originally posted by Guileplayer

Originally posted by milkpudding

Originally posted by Guileplayer

Originally posted by milkpudding

Why are we still talking about voice-over like it's an unexplored territory?? My 4-year old PSP has many games with full voice-over.

It's like listing '3D environment' as the game's selling point. This is going to be 2012, not 2002.

Name me a MMO with full voiceovers

MMO or not, this is a game. If it's gonna convince me to shell out $15 every month on top of my time and give up all my console games and other MMOs, it should have something unique that other games don't have. NOT something like voice-over and eh...story. 

 

I'm not sure about you guys, I only have time to play ONE game. And i can choose it from my PC, PS3, PSP, Wii and other MMOs.

So you already pay 15 dollars for another MMO right? And since you  have time to play one game then you are already not playing your console games right? Why are you posting on this board then? Because judging from your first paragraphs you play more than one game already. I thought time was limited for you. Am i right internet?

I'm not subscribing to any MMO right now. I do play one on and off now, Lotro, but not a subscriber though. 

I saw TOR appearing on gaming blogs alot and want to check it out, but all I saw is people talking about its voice-over and story which I thought are so basic in RPGs. 

What about group contents? Anything special in group contents? It's a MMO afterall. Frankly speaking, I'm pretty disaapointed at what's being presented to the customers if the game turns out good. 

Originally posted by milkpudding

Originally posted by Guileplayer

Originally posted by milkpudding

Originally posted by Guileplayer

Originally posted by milkpudding

Why are we still talking about voice-over like it's an unexplored territory?? My 4-year old PSP has many games with full voice-over.

It's like listing '3D environment' as the game's selling point. This is going to be 2012, not 2002.

Name me a MMO with full voiceovers

MMO or not, this is a game. If it's gonna convince me to shell out $15 every month on top of my time and give up all my console games and other MMOs, it should have something unique that other games don't have. NOT something like voice-over and eh...story. 

 

I'm not sure about you guys, I only have time to play ONE game. And i can choose it from my PC, PS3, PSP, Wii and other MMOs.

So you already pay 15 dollars for another MMO right? And since you  have time to play one game then you are already not playing your console games right? Why are you posting on this board then? Because judging from your first paragraphs you play more than one game already. I thought time was limited for you. Am i right internet?

I'm not subscribing to any MMO right now. I do play one on and off now, Lotro, but not a subscriber though. 

I saw TOR appearing on gaming blogs alot and want to check it out, but all I saw is people talking about its voice-over and story which I thought are so basic in RPGs. 

What about group contents? Anything special in group contents? It's a MMO afterall. Frankly speaking, I'm pretty disaapointed at what's being presented to the customers if the game turns out good. 

For pve there will be:

flashpoints: 4 man/companion dungeons

operations: 12-16-20 man dungeons (as far as I've heared)

heroic quests: harder, group quest(lines) out in the open world, worldbosses, etc

For pvp:

warzones (instanced pvp)

world pvp and pvp hotspots on pvp server

scenario based world pvp with territory control on Illum on all servers

Best to start reading at the official site though, their general forum has a sticky with pretty much all information on Swtor so far.

Originally posted by milkpudding

Originally posted by Guileplayer

Originally posted by milkpudding

Why are we still talking about voice-over like it's an unexplored territory?? My 4-year old PSP has many games with full voice-over.

It's like listing '3D environment' as the game's selling point. This is going to be 2012, not 2002.

Name me a MMO with full voiceovers

MMO or not, this is a game. If it's gonna convince me to shell out $15 every month on top of my time and give up all my console games and other MMOs, it should have something unique that other games don't have. NOT something like voice-over and eh...story. 

 

I'm not sure about you guys, I only have time to play ONE game. And i can choose it from my PC, PS3, PSP, Wii and other MMOs.

Your post is very confusing. You have time for only one MMO and yet you don't want give up on your consoles games and other MMOS? that is a big contradiction there.

In your own words MMO or not this is still a game, so how come you can can play all other consoles and MMOS but shelling out 15 bucks for SWTOR is such a big deal?

I voted dissapointing.

The game will launch polished, smooth, and with relative smoothness. Initial box sales will be a record breaker just as WAR, and STO were, and then just like AoC, WAR, STO, and even Rift subs will start to taper off, then go south.

I forsee 'ding 50, now what' threads pop up as players race through to end game, and only then see there was a story that they were supposed to play to delay their progress. Yes I know the die hard fanboi's will flood through with "But you have 1,600 hours of story" Not realizing that means you play both factions, and all 4 classes per side. Not a popular option to many of the player base, IMO.

Developers need to realize if we the players want to play WoW, we will play WoW!

However, I do not feel this game will crash and burn like sub-par games released recently aka: APB, STO. It will prolly have a small dedicated fan base similar to Rift. Not huge, and when you look at the big picture of Money invested in the project, over hype, and potential to be a 'WoW Killer' SW:tOR will miss the lofty goal it set to achieve.

I think this game will turn an acceptable profit for everyone invested.  I don't think it's going to revolutionize gaming, bring in and retain millions of brand new players or beat WoW's successful run (a run that is still running). 

But I don't think it's going to crash and burn.  A lot of Rift/WoW/freemium game X malcontents are going to buy the box and sub for a few months, and a few of those will no doubt stick around a year or even more, meanwhile, expansions and the surrounding advertising will bring new players in after launch and bring players back as time goes on.  I think it may do better than Rift overall, so I'm breaking out my crystal ball and calling it, people:  It's going to fit somewhere in between WoW and Rift on the final profit tally.

Originally posted by Madimorga

I think this game will turn an acceptable profit for everyone invested.  I don't think it's going to revolutionize gaming, bring in and retain millions of brand new players or beat WoW's successful run (a run that is still running). 

 

But I don't think it's going to crash and burn.  A lot of Rift/WoW/freemium game X malcontents are going to buy the box and sub for a few months, and a few of those will no doubt stick around a year or even more, meanwhile, expansions and the surrounding advertising will bring new players in after launch and bring players back as time goes on.  I think it may do better than Rift overall, so I'm breaking out my crystal ball and calling it, people:  It's going to fit somewhere in between WoW and Rift on the final profit tally.

Almost all MMORPGs have made a profit. If they invest $100,000,000, and they have 2,000,000 pre-orders, they will have made $120,000,000 off of the guinea pigs alone. That may be before taxes, but that isn't counting sales after launch, any subscriptions, collectors boxes, memorabilia, etc.

With the proper marketing campaign, they could make money off of an MMOG where you create a character on MMORPG.com and troll the forums all day. :D

I vote disapointing. It would be a moderate success to me but I feel its being hyped WAY WAY WAY to much. Over-hype can potentially kill good games. As much as I think its dumb, i still feel it will end up being a decent game. Whether that will be enough to save it after being hyped up so much? We will have to wait and see.

Originally posted by grawss

Originally posted by Madimorga

I think this game will turn an acceptable profit for everyone invested.  I don't think it's going to revolutionize gaming, bring in and retain millions of brand new players or beat WoW's successful run (a run that is still running). 

 

But I don't think it's going to crash and burn.  A lot of Rift/WoW/freemium game X malcontents are going to buy the box and sub for a few months, and a few of those will no doubt stick around a year or even more, meanwhile, expansions and the surrounding advertising will bring new players in after launch and bring players back as time goes on.  I think it may do better than Rift overall, so I'm breaking out my crystal ball and calling it, people:  It's going to fit somewhere in between WoW and Rift on the final profit tally.

Almost all MMORPGs have made a profit. If they invest $100,000,000, and they have 2,000,000 pre-orders, they will have made $120,000,000 off of the guinea pigs alone. That may be before taxes, but that isn't counting sales after launch, any subscriptions, collectors boxes, memorabilia, etc.

With the proper marketing campaign, they could make money off of an MMOG where you create a character on MMORPG.com and troll the forums all day. :D

He didn't say it wasn't going to earn a profit... I don't think he is trolling. He said it was going to do pretty decent, so it is unfair to say he is a troll (based on this post), and hammer him for a little thing he said (which wasn't that bad). How silly...

Originally posted by KingJiggly

Originally posted by grawss

Originally posted by Madimorga

I think this game will turn an acceptable profit for everyone invested.  I don't think it's going to revolutionize gaming, bring in and retain millions of brand new players or beat WoW's successful run (a run that is still running). 

 

But I don't think it's going to crash and burn.  A lot of Rift/WoW/freemium game X malcontents are going to buy the box and sub for a few months, and a few of those will no doubt stick around a year or even more, meanwhile, expansions and the surrounding advertising will bring new players in after launch and bring players back as time goes on.  I think it may do better than Rift overall, so I'm breaking out my crystal ball and calling it, people:  It's going to fit somewhere in between WoW and Rift on the final profit tally.

Almost all MMORPGs have made a profit. If they invest $100,000,000, and they have 2,000,000 pre-orders, they will have made $120,000,000 off of the guinea pigs alone. That may be before taxes, but that isn't counting sales after launch, any subscriptions, collectors boxes, memorabilia, etc.

With the proper marketing campaign, they could make money off of an MMOG where you create a character on MMORPG.com and troll the forums all day. :D

He didn't say it wasn't going to earn a profit... I don't think he is trolling. He said it was going to do pretty decent, so it is unfair to say he is a troll (based on this post), and hammer him for a little thing he said (which wasn't that bad). How silly...

That tidbit at the end was meant as a jab at the entire community, including myself.