Originally posted by Souldrainer

In the article, the writer points out that he has not preordered the game already, and was hoping for something to change his mind at the expo.  His biggest gripe with the game was something everybody else knew in 2008.  Basically, he didn't want the game anyway.  So, why did he write about SWTOR and not End of Nations instead?  I like Trion, but I know I am going to hate EON because it's an RTS.  He's being negative about a game that has gameplay he doesn't like, when he should be writing about what he does like instead.  EMO writer is EMO... 

As opposed to " Fanboy writer is Fanboy...." 

That just doesnt really work.  If he didnt already preorder the game at least he had a mind open enough to the possibility of his mind being changed.  And whats worse is it wasnt.  In fact it seemed he was more cemented in his plans to not make a purchase after trying it.  But it was only ten minutes. 

As Ive said several times, I actually thought the article was well written enough.  It made sense.  But at the same time he only had ten minutes to play it so I dont know........

Did those ten minutes do anything to change his mind?  Hell no, obviously.  Would an hour have made a difference instead?  I have doubts it would have.  Was his mind open to being changed?  I think so perhaps.  But I dont know the guy so I have no real idea. 

But I have a hard time imagining him waiting all that time in line just to write a bad review he was already intent on writing.  Im sure he saw a lot of it being played too before he got a chance to try it.   So in reality the ten minute play time might not be the only factor.  He might not have liked what he saw as others played it either. 

Its fair.  There's some favorable preview articles involving Swtor too.  Not sure how balanced it is, but they're out there. 

saying someone is wronge is flat out rude and selfish just because he has a diff opion on a game..if he dont like it ..well he just didnt like it...why is it alright to have a million posts about this game being the holy trinity of mmos but when someone questions it in a differant manner they are scolded with a hot pan'o'gritz...if he didnt care for it then just question why ...no reason to say hes flat out wronge just because he doesnt like it...but then again the whole new genra has turned into a flock of sheep

Originally posted by Corehaven

As opposed to " Fanboy writer is Fanboy...." 

 

That just doesnt really work.  If he didnt already preorder the game at least he had a mind open enough to the possibility of his mind being changed.  And whats worse is it wasnt.  In fact it seemed he was more cemented in his plans to not make a purchase after trying it.  But it was only ten minutes. 

 

As Ive said several times, I actually thought the article was well written enough.  It made sense.  But at the same time he only had ten minutes to play it so I dont know........

 

Did those ten minutes do anything to change his mind?  Hell no, obviously.  Would an hour have made a difference instead?  I have doubts it would have.  Was his mind open to being changed?  I think so perhaps.  But I dont know the guy so I have no real idea. 

 

But I have a hard time imagining him waiting all that time in line just to write a bad review he was already intent on writing.  Im sure he saw a lot of it being played too before he got a chance to try it.   So in reality the ten minute play time might not be the only factor.  He might not have liked what he saw as others played it either. 

 

Its fair.  There's some favorable preview articles involving Swtor too.  Not sure how balanced it is, but they're out there. 

You can't make an informed opinion on anything in 10 minutes.  Just because the artile is well written, which basically means he use punctuation in the right way, DOES NOT mean he gave anything more than a short opinion piece. That, in and of itself, is fine - what isn't is how people react to it without looking at what he said and how he stated it.  He obviously had a negative bias towards the game, is that not evident?  So how is it people can look at that article and say "OH SHIT IT'S GONNA SUCK BECAUSE THIS GUY SAID SO, LOL I WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG"? 

You yourself stated "As Ive said several times, I actually thought the article was well written enough.  It made sense.  But at the same time he only had ten minutes to play it so I dont know........"  All that says is, it's well written but the guy didn't have enough of a preview to formulate a good opinion.

Originally posted by Dameonk

Please forgive my ignorance, but I don't understand what the problem is.

We've known for years that SWTOR is going to be generic hotkey MMO gameplay with a Bioware story.  This article only confirms (again) what we've already known for a long time.

The guy simply does not like that type of game.   What's the big deal?

Not everyone is going to like the same type of game you do, get over it.

Edit:  If you're worried this is going to somehow hurt the game, it already has the most preorders in the history of MMOs.  I think it'll be ok that some guy that works at a niche website who wrote a review that may be seen by a couple hundred people doesn't like the game.

Pretty much "this".

There is nothing in this artcile that we haven't known before. One eiter likes it or they don't.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Dameonk

Please forgive my ignorance, but I don't understand what the problem is.

We've known for years that SWTOR is going to be generic hotkey MMO gameplay with a Bioware story.  This article only confirms (again) what we've already known for a long time.

The guy simply does not like that type of game.   What's the big deal?

Not everyone is going to like the same type of game you do, get over it.

Edit:  If you're worried this is going to somehow hurt the game, it already has the most preorders in the history of MMOs.  I think it'll be ok that some guy that works at a niche website who wrote a review that may be seen by a couple hundred people doesn't like the game.

Pretty much "this".

There is nothing in this artcile that we haven't known before. One eiter likes it or they don't.

Originally posted by empyros

That argument works just as well for people who tout the game as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Anyway, at least I have provided coherent, thought-out contentions. That's more than that can be said for your petty, puerile name-calling. Begone. 

(Yeller) Please show me a single post in this thread that says anything like that? I don't think I've seen more than a handfull of users on this forum ever say anything that was remotely like that. Why argue with a mythical group of posters?

(OJ)The people who actually know what the game is like when actually played (not demoed) can't talk here about what the game actually is, how it plays, whether there are "grindy quests"

(which is subjective as grind only feels like a grind, to those who feel like they've been grinding. Hell I see ex swg players who say skilling up "never" felt like a grind.)

As others have said, save the I told you so for when people can actually debate these subjects as they really are.Yes your posts are coherent as well as basic questions to ask about any MMO in development, are they accurate at all? Those of us who know, aren't gonna tell ya.

Originally posted by Quesa

Originally posted by Corehaven

As opposed to " Fanboy writer is Fanboy...." 

 

That just doesnt really work.  If he didnt already preorder the game at least he had a mind open enough to the possibility of his mind being changed.  And whats worse is it wasnt.  In fact it seemed he was more cemented in his plans to not make a purchase after trying it.  But it was only ten minutes. 

 

As Ive said several times, I actually thought the article was well written enough.  It made sense.  But at the same time he only had ten minutes to play it so I dont know........

 

Did those ten minutes do anything to change his mind?  Hell no, obviously.  Would an hour have made a difference instead?  I have doubts it would have.  Was his mind open to being changed?  I think so perhaps.  But I dont know the guy so I have no real idea. 

 

But I have a hard time imagining him waiting all that time in line just to write a bad review he was already intent on writing.  Im sure he saw a lot of it being played too before he got a chance to try it.   So in reality the ten minute play time might not be the only factor.  He might not have liked what he saw as others played it either. 

 

Its fair.  There's some favorable preview articles involving Swtor too.  Not sure how balanced it is, but they're out there. 

You can't make an informed opinion on anything in 10 minutes.  Just because the artile is well written, which basically means he use punctuation in the right way, DOES NOT mean he gave anything more than a short opinion piece. That, in and of itself, is fine - what isn't is how people react to it without looking at what he said and how he stated it.  He obviously had a negative bias towards the game, is that not evident?  So how is it people can look at that article and say "OH SHIT IT'S GONNA SUCK BECAUSE THIS GUY SAID SO, LOL I WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG"? 

You yourself stated "As Ive said several times, I actually thought the article was well written enough.  It made sense.  But at the same time he only had ten minutes to play it so I dont know........"  All that says is, it's well written but the guy didn't have enough of a preview to formulate a good opinion.

Errrm.....yea.  I'll just have to agree. 

I could play any great game for only ten minutes and you could ask me what I thought and Id say, " Ummm....I dont know. " 

So maybe the article should have been titled, " I played Swtor for 10 minutes and still have no idea! " 

Its the article I would have written anyways.  It would have been short.  In fact I'll do it now! 

" Well I got to play Swtor after standing in line for more time than somebody ought too...for anything.  It smelled like an mmo, looked like one, and Im pretty sure it was one.  The guy behind me breathed on my hair while I was trying to figure this thing out.  There was a lot of noise so I couldnt hear it.  There are some running animations and you can attack things.  Thats as far as I got.  What do I think of Swtor?  I have NO FREAKIN IDEA.  Thanks for reading " 

Was that good?  I thought it was.  Boy....I should start doing this for a living.  Boy howdy. 

Hmmmm, so the writer is upset that he wasn't given access to more than the tutorial and a pvp zone?  

Whatever.

Well while SWG was the one that introduced me to MMOs, its theme and game mechanics just couldn't compare to the games that followed. After WoW it was all over for them. Plus a SW MMO just doesn't seem to suited as an MMO. Consoles should be where it stays at.

Originally posted by Quesa

Originally posted by Corehaven

As opposed to " Fanboy writer is Fanboy...." 

 

That just doesnt really work.  If he didnt already preorder the game at least he had a mind open enough to the possibility of his mind being changed.  And whats worse is it wasnt.  In fact it seemed he was more cemented in his plans to not make a purchase after trying it.  But it was only ten minutes. 

 

As Ive said several times, I actually thought the article was well written enough.  It made sense.  But at the same time he only had ten minutes to play it so I dont know........

 

Did those ten minutes do anything to change his mind?  Hell no, obviously.  Would an hour have made a difference instead?  I have doubts it would have.  Was his mind open to being changed?  I think so perhaps.  But I dont know the guy so I have no real idea. 

 

But I have a hard time imagining him waiting all that time in line just to write a bad review he was already intent on writing.  Im sure he saw a lot of it being played too before he got a chance to try it.   So in reality the ten minute play time might not be the only factor.  He might not have liked what he saw as others played it either. 

 

Its fair.  There's some favorable preview articles involving Swtor too.  Not sure how balanced it is, but they're out there. 

You can't make an informed opinion on anything in 10 minutes.  Just because the artile is well written, which basically means he use punctuation in the right way, DOES NOT mean he gave anything more than a short opinion piece. That, in and of itself, is fine - what isn't is how people react to it without looking at what he said and how he stated it.  He obviously had a negative bias towards the game, is that not evident?  So how is it people can look at that article and say "OH SHIT IT'S GONNA SUCK BECAUSE THIS GUY SAID SO, LOL I WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG"? 

You yourself stated "As Ive said several times, I actually thought the article was well written enough.  It made sense.  But at the same time he only had ten minutes to play it so I dont know........"  All that says is, it's well written but the guy didn't have enough of a preview to formulate a good opinion.

What I thnk it is funny that everyone saying...'o how can you say a game is good/bad if you've never played it, you have to experience it for yourself'.

Really?....We have played it, go to the gamelist here and pick one...we've played it, its an MMO, we can test a game and in 10 mins, tell how the gameplay is going to be at lvl 1 or 100...that is what an mmo is...game mechanics.

You are hanging your hat on story and voice over? Well we have experienced that too...try KOTOR 1 n 2. Its all there just now its multiplayer.

Please don't use the lame argument that we haven't played it yet...what game in the last 5 years surpassed the hype surrounding it? I'll save you time...none. Not one game was better than the hype leading up to its launch.

All I ask is be reasonable and realize that you have played the game...we all have.

Originally posted by r3zs1ckn3ss

Well while SWG was the one that introduced me to MMOs, its theme and game mechanics just couldn't compare to the games that followed. After WoW it was all over for them. Plus a SW MMO just doesn't seem to suited as an MMO. Consoles should be where it stays at.

Oh God....you cant say....that word here.  It starts with a C and ends with "soles". 

  I sort of agree with you.  Okay right behind ya.  RUN!  RUN FAST! 

Originally posted by Socman75

 

"the same thing he wrote two pages ago... "

Yeah we heard ya the first time, I guess no one felt it was worth the effort to reply.

Originally posted by Corehaven

Originally posted by Souldrainer

In the article, the writer points out that he has not preordered the game already, and was hoping for something to change his mind at the expo.  His biggest gripe with the game was something everybody else knew in 2008.  Basically, he didn't want the game anyway.  So, why did he write about SWTOR and not End of Nations instead?  I like Trion, but I know I am going to hate EON because it's an RTS.  He's being negative about a game that has gameplay he doesn't like, when he should be writing about what he does like instead.  EMO writer is EMO... 

 

As opposed to " Fanboy writer is Fanboy...." 

 

That just doesnt really work.  If he didnt already preorder the game at least he had a mind open enough to the possibility of his mind being changed.  And whats worse is it wasnt.  In fact it seemed he was more cemented in his plans to not make a purchase after trying it.  But it was only ten minutes. 

 

As Ive said several times, I actually thought the article was well written enough.  It made sense.  But at the same time he only had ten minutes to play it so I dont know........

 

Did those ten minutes do anything to change his mind?  Hell no, obviously.  Would an hour have made a difference instead?  I have doubts it would have.  Was his mind open to being changed?  I think so perhaps.  But I dont know the guy so I have no real idea. 

 

But I have a hard time imagining him waiting all that time in line just to write a bad review he was already intent on writing.  Im sure he saw a lot of it being played too before he got a chance to try it.   So in reality the ten minute play time might not be the only factor.  He might not have liked what he saw as others played it either. 

 

Its fair.  There's some favorable preview articles involving Swtor too.  Not sure how balanced it is, but they're out there. 

 What I'm saying is, the article seems to have one single complaint about something we've known for 3 years.  I can sum it up in one sentence. "I don't like SWTOR because it uses action-bar combat, as other games have done."  There, done.  Clearly, he writes a whole article bashing the game, because he is emotional and negative in himself.  Aside from the fact that I largely disagree with him and, as I said, I'm going to hate his favorite game when it comes,   I found that his opinion was too narrow and outdated to warrant a whole article.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Socman75

 

"the same thing he wrote two pages ago...

Yeah we heard ya the first time, I guess no one felt it was worth the effort.

and it will get posted again until people quit saying 'you don't know anything until you play it' :)

Originally posted by Socman75

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Socman75

 

"the same thing he wrote two pages ago...

Yeah we heard ya the first time, I guess no one felt it was worth the effort.

and it will get posted again until people quit saying 'you don't know anything until you play it' :)

I think Socman is trying to say you dont need to stick your foot in hot lava to know it burns.  But what do I know. 

Originally posted by Socman75

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Socman75

 

"the same thing he wrote two pages ago...

Yeah we heard ya the first time, I guess no one felt it was worth the effort.

and it will get posted again until people quit saying 'you don't know anything until you play it' :)

KNowing what MMO"s play like and what single player games play like isn't exactly representative of how the two feel when fused together in the way they are. It could be good or bad, right?

Originally posted by Socman75

Originally posted by Quesa

You can't make an informed opinion on anything in 10 minutes.  Just because the artile is well written, which basically means he use punctuation in the right way, DOES NOT mean he gave anything more than a short opinion piece. That, in and of itself, is fine - what isn't is how people react to it without looking at what he said and how he stated it.  He obviously had a negative bias towards the game, is that not evident?  So how is it people can look at that article and say "OH SHIT IT'S GONNA SUCK BECAUSE THIS GUY SAID SO, LOL I WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG"? 

You yourself stated "As Ive said several times, I actually thought the article was well written enough.  It made sense.  But at the same time he only had ten minutes to play it so I dont know........"  All that says is, it's well written but the guy didn't have enough of a preview to formulate a good opinion.

What I thnk it is funny that everyone saying...'o how can you say a game is good/bad if you've never played it, you have to experience it for yourself'.

Really?....We have played it, go to the gamelist here and pick one...we've played it, its an MMO, we can test a game and in 10 mins, tell how the gameplay is going to be at lvl 1 or 100...that is what an mmo is...game mechanics.

You are hanging your hat on story and voice over? Well we have experienced that too...try KOTOR 1 n 2. Its all there just now its multiplayer.

Please don't use the lame argument that we haven't played it yet...what game in the last 5 years surpassed the hype surrounding it? I'll save you time...none. Not one game was better than the hype leading up to its launch.

All I ask is be reasonable and realize that you have played the game...we all have.

No opinion about anything that is meant for weeks/months of consumption is truely formed after 10 minutes, sorry...not gonna buy that at all.  It just means you had a previous bias that took over when you "formed" that opinion.

The guy played a preview of a preview.  10 minutes with a pre-formed character, restricted to a specific area of the game in, likely, loud environment.  If you actually would READ the article, you could get the negative vibes from the very first paragraph.

In no way am I attempting to say the game isn't overhyped (nor did I even cover that but...I guess you thought I did), is going to be bad or good - my point is that people are being ridiculous using this as a reason that their opinion is somehow validated about how they feel the game is going to be much in the same way the other people use the positive reviews with no real basis in the oposite.

I did read the article.

He talked about the gameplay. (Obviously he didn't like it) amongst other irrelavent stuff.

Tell me the MMO you played that the entire game mechanics changed at endgame from what it was at the beginning?

You can easily get a feel for game mechanics from 10 mins. of gameplay, content no, grouping dynamics no, story no, but gameplay mechanics yes, yes you can in fact that's what keeps me playing past the first 10 mins.

Forming an opinion of the combat style of a game isn't the same as forming an opinon of THE GAME.  You're picking 1 aspect of a game and superimposing it as an informed opinion of the entire game.  You are right in your context but not mine.

A good example of a major shift in gameplay would be with AoC.  You're exposure to things are very limited when you first start a game.  Things are simpler and less dangerous to the player.  AoC had great beginning experience with the full voice overs and different quests - but you get out to the world post-20, nothing is voice over, the quests are all the same and you learned that PvP was shit.  You could never have found that out in 10 minutes, not even during beta when the XP was accelerated.

Originally posted by Quesa

The guy played a preview of a preview.  10 minutes with a pre-formed character, restricted to a specific area of the game in, likely, loud environment.  If you actually would READ the article, you could get the negative vibes from the very first paragraph.

In no way am I attempting to say the game isn't overhyped (nor did I even cover that but...I guess you thought I did), is going to be bad or good - my point is that people are being ridiculous using this as a reason that their opinion is somehow validated about how they feel the game is going to be much in the same way the other people use the positive reviews with no real basis in the oposite.

First, the part in blue :

- While I agree, it's a very short time to get a real sense of a game, it's still a demo. Couldn't you also argue that it's the developers responsibility to make their demos reflect well on their game, no matter the length. If they failed to do this, I'm not sure the length really matters. Their showcasing their own game. If they can't do that well, then how is the actual game supposed to be better?

Second part :

- I absolutely agree on all parts. I think the hype for this game is too much / mismanaged. I also think that people are using too many of these 'previews' as gospel about the game (for good AND bad). However, can you really blame them? The amount of known info on this game is quite small in ratio to what's being marketed. With so little actual info to go on, most people really have no other option than to base their opinion off of hear-say. Some of us are lucky enough to either be in, or know someone in beta, so we have a much more well rounded picture of the game. Most aren't.