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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » So, was it a lie that pre-order stocks are 'limited', or is the demand lower then expected?

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207 posts found
  Metsis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/29/10
Posts: 66

9/26/11 12:35:37 AM#161

Boy does this forum have a huge bunch of "drama queens" on it... You make an issue of something like this???

I'm quite sure that they have a limit to all the pre-orders etc. There is a physical limitation to it. They are planning to make "so and so much copies" for the launch, so they can sell only "server maximum load minus launch copies" of the game as pre-order. But if the product is moving, they can always decide to add more servers to get more money out of a hot product.

Everything is limited. It's not like their servers have unlimited bandwidth on them and performance power...

There is no such thing as "unlimited"...

  Blasphim

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/11
Posts: 349

Darkness is Death's ignorance, and the Devil's time

9/26/11 12:42:17 AM#162
Originally posted by Metsis

Boy does this forum have a huge bunch of "drama queens" on it... You make an issue of something like this???

I'm quite sure that they have a limit to all the pre-orders etc. There is a physical limitation to it. They are planning to make "so and so much copies" for the launch, so they can sell only "server maximum load minus launch copies" of the game as pre-order. But if the product is moving, they can always decide to add more servers to get more money out of a hot product.

Everything is limited. It's not like their servers have unlimited bandwidth on them and performance power...

There is no such thing as "unlimited"... POWER!!!!

Sorry, couldn't help it

  Adamantine

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3346

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

9/26/11 5:18:46 AM#163

Err of course pre-orders arent limited.

They will need time to build the infrastructure if they get 50 million players in the first week, though.

In fact they will need to hire a ***load of people, if its that successful.

  Hyperbeam

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 126

That's about the size of it in a nutshell!

9/26/11 5:28:59 AM#164

Yes it's a lie, clealry noone wanted to preorder the game at all but then the marketing monkey came up with the brilliant idea of putting the word, 'limited', on the preorder page and everyone flocked there. The marketing monkey was awarded with an extra bananna that day, so it was a good day all round.

 

The games just like WoW but in space and it totally sucks and were all glad your here to reveal the truth to us simple minded buffons.  So thanks you can go now, your work is done, congratulate yourself with a well earned milkshake!....

 

 

 

 

 

just in case.../sarcasm off

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7405

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  9/26/11 6:31:44 AM#165
Originally posted by GMan3
Originally posted by vesavius
Originally posted by Sukiyaki
Originally posted by vesavius
Originally posted by popinjay
 
 

Originally posted by vesavius


Originally posted by popinjay
  
 
 


Originally posted by vesavius
It has to be one or the other, right?



I haven't seen a UFO, but people told me they exist.
   
They are either lying or mistaken about what they saw, right?


This makes no sense whatsoever.  
 
 

Precisely! /clap x 3

 
UFOs could exist but just because I haven't the vision to see beyond two self-imposed limited variables, the conclusion is faulty. And so is the OP premise that only two answers are possible in this situation, period.

 Thank you for responding so I could tell you that personally.

 Maybe you could suggest other variables and start adding to the discussion in a meaningful sense?

Because, right now, I am seeing no value to your flawed observations here at all.

 Who said in first place, the only options are "lying" or "low demand"?

*edited due to excessive trolling*

 Then give us another. 

Calmly, clearly, and without personal attacks, if you can. 

    Why should he or anyone else for that matter? 

 

because he has made the point, and now he must back it up.

 

 

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7405

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  9/26/11 6:43:28 AM#166
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by vesavius

 

Then give us another. 

Calmly, clearly, and without personal attacks, if you can.

 

 

 

To think they'd set a limit on just pre-orders alone is somewhat silly.

 

Yet this is exactly what they have said is the case.

They have clearly sought to establish that there is a limited and exhaustible amount of  number of pre-orders and if you want one you must buy it NOW before they run out.

 

 

Like I say, if it was a company like Aventurine playing the same game the majority here would be raging against them, but with Bioware (actually EA) the rabids defend, rationalise, and justify. To be a 'fan' of a game you must defend EVERY aspect of it right? No weakness in the armour allowed!

Personally,with this game I have talked about the good and bad of it (I like the companions and think the story areas are excellent for instance) but it seems that with the main that post here no critical discussion will ever be tolerated. Thats a shame, because no game or company is perfect and all aspects should be discussed freely with an open mind.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19242

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/26/11 6:53:51 AM#167

I don't view it as lying per sec, rather its just a standard marketing ploy to  build up artificial demand.  Toy manufacturers have been successfully using this trick around Christmas for many years.

Watch how challenging it will be to log in the first few weeks, expecting some very long log in queues no matter how hard they try to prepare for the onslaught.

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7405

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  9/26/11 7:03:49 AM#168
Originally posted by Kyleran

I don't view it as lying per sec, rather its just a standard marketing ploy to  build up artificial demand.  Toy manufacturers have been successfully using this trick around Christmas for many years.

Watch how challenging it will be to log in the first few weeks, expecting some very long log in queues no matter how hard they try to prepare for the onslaught.

 

 

How is it not a lie? Even 'per sec'? (did you mean 'per se', as in 'in itself'? Not criticising or correcting, just asking for clarity)

I agree that it's a standard lie that is used, but it is still a lie, and thats all the OP asked.

A lie being 'standard' dosent make it any truer or more acceptable.

 

 

  zymurgeist

Elite Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5199

9/26/11 7:07:00 AM#169

 



Originally posted by vesavius
They have clearly sought to establish that there is a limited and exhaustible amount of  number of pre-orders and if you want one you must buy it NOW before they run out.
 

 

It's marketing speak for "get it while it's hot" and in no way unusual in any industry. Obviously they have only made a limited number of physical boxes and they've also limited the amount of digital downloads. Probably to something absurd like five million combined. It's nothing new. Now if they had limited it to ten thousand people would have a reason to get upset.

It's not a lie because it's true. If they sell all of them people won't be able to go to the local wally world and buy a copy. Not that they expect hundreds of thousands of people to be lining up at every local retailer at midnight to get one.

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  Metsis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/29/10
Posts: 66

9/26/11 7:08:53 AM#170

The fact is that they are probably quite well aware of the numbers they can handle per server. I think this is where the "guild pre-creation" is a handy tool. You have people form guilds already and then make alliances before the game goes live. Then you distribute the guilds with their allies among the servers and create multiple servers that have solid guilds in place and "guarranteed" players going there, at least at first.

The problem with the queues have mostly been about everyone flocking to one or few servers, that are "the most populated ones" and no one willing to go to that "pop low rp server"... Thus the number of people they can support is really a moot point since people still play on the server of their choosing. Having people already spread out among several servers because their guilds are there, now that is devious of them.

Have to give them props for that... I certainly hope that the game goes "pre order live" several weeks in advance so my xmas won't be totally ruined by this. And for the fact that the queues that will be there, will be much shorter then by the time the game goes full on live.

I just want to play it already. And not some beta that I won't have time to really dig into... And since the client is 27Gb in size is a stupefying amount of downloading to be done by my slow internet connection.

 

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15693

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

9/26/11 7:35:00 AM#171
Originally posted by vesavius
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by vesavius

 

Then give us another. 

Calmly, clearly, and without personal attacks, if you can.

 

 

 

To think they'd set a limit on just pre-orders alone is somewhat silly.

 

Yet this is exactly what they have said is the case.

They have clearly sought to establish that there is a limited and exhaustible amount of  number of pre-orders and if you want one you must buy it NOW before they run out.

 

 

Like I say, if it was a company like Aventurine playing the same game the majority here would be raging against them, but with Bioware (actually EA) the rabids defend, rationalise, and justify. To be a 'fan' of a game you must defend EVERY aspect of it right? No weakness in the armour allowed!

Personally,with this game I have talked about the good and bad of it (I like the companions and think the story areas are excellent for instance) but it seems that with the main that post here no critical discussion will ever be tolerated. Thats a shame, because no game or company is perfect and all aspects should be discussed freely with an open mind.

I think you're looking at these responses in the wrong way. You're OP says "it can only be one or the other, right?" well something like that.

What you're seeing a whole lot of is others speculating on other things their wording could mean. There's only a few making definitive statements here (that actually responded to your op) and you're one of them.

Second it's a bit unfair to brush others opinions off as "defending" if your intentions are a fair and respectable discussion. It makes this whole thread seem disingenuous.

With that said, there are 3 possibilities here I can think of, off the top of my head.

A: It's all marketing to push sales.

B: there's an actual limit in place that will take effect when the game launches, (we'll know in december for sure).

C. They never hit the limit they set...

With all of these "possibilities" all we can do is speculate on what is true and what isn't.

Knowing what the average person does about big business, it's not a stretch to feel it may just be "marketing". At the same time a realist can see with a product like this, it's very possible they may set a sales limit at some point and stagger users in as "space" becomes available.

Why would that be? In many cases companies have just opened the flood gate and left it to fate. We've all seen the results of that.

Also a lot of early starts begin on a date, and everyone (who qualifies) is left to rush in on that date, that definitely isn't the case with TOR. As they are taking  an approach that will stagger users into early start, they've said as much, they've also reminded those who have preordered, more than once, how they will be handling that part of launch.

They've also limited the regions the game will launch in, and have faced pretty hefty critique for doing so.

All fo that considered I don't think it's a stretch to say it may be true to an extent that they will be limiting launch day/week sales.

IMO it's too early to say with certainty any of the above possibilities are true.

 

 

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  MyGarona

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/11
Posts: 140

Cataclysm = NGE2

9/26/11 8:51:19 AM#172
Please, someone release a new game so we call stop wasting our time with these worthless threads!!
  GMan3

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/27/10
Posts: 2239

9/26/11 8:53:54 AM#173
Originally posted by vesavius
Originally posted by GMan3
Originally posted by vesavius
Originally posted by Sukiyaki
Originally posted by vesavius
Originally posted by popinjay
 
 

Originally posted by vesavius


Originally posted by popinjay
  
 
 


Originally posted by vesavius
It has to be one or the other, right?




I haven't seen a UFO, but people told me they exist.
   
They are either lying or mistaken about what they saw, right?


This makes no sense whatsoever.  
 
 

Precisely! /clap x 3

 
UFOs could exist but just because I haven't the vision to see beyond two self-imposed limited variables, the conclusion is faulty. And so is the OP premise that only two answers are possible in this situation, period.

 Thank you for responding so I could tell you that personally.

 Maybe you could suggest other variables and start adding to the discussion in a meaningful sense?

Because, right now, I am seeing no value to your flawed observations here at all.

 Who said in first place, the only options are "lying" or "low demand"?

*edited due to excessive trolling*

 Then give us another. 

Calmly, clearly, and without personal attacks, if you can. 

    Why should he or anyone else for that matter? 

 because he has made the point, and now he must back it up. 

   Now answer the rest of my post vesavius.  Seems you are afraid to answer the main point of it for some reason since you have now ignored it THREE times.  Here it is again to make it easier to remember:

   Why should he or anyone else for that matter? You have obviously taken a dislke to the game and now assume that anything said is either wrong or niave or some such. Your position is the most unreasonable one on this entire thread, but due to your dislike, you are blinded to it.

    Now it's your turn, take a step back and answer honestly, if this was a game that you were looking forward to . . . would you actually be acting in the manner you are or would you be more tempered or even defensive towards "your" game?

    Something tells me you will ignore this question AGAIN since to answer it honestly is to risk admitting being wrong or worse, intentionally being a . . . 

"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7405

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  9/26/11 8:55:27 AM#174
Originally posted by GMan3
Originally posted by vesavius
Originally posted by GMan3
Originally posted by vesavius
Originally posted by Sukiyaki
Originally posted by vesavius
Originally posted by popinjay
 
 

Originally posted by vesavius


Originally posted by popinjay
  
 
 


Originally posted by vesavius
It has to be one or the other, right?




I haven't seen a UFO, but people told me they exist.
   
They are either lying or mistaken about what they saw, right?


This makes no sense whatsoever.  
 
 

Precisely! /clap x 3

 
UFOs could exist but just because I haven't the vision to see beyond two self-imposed limited variables, the conclusion is faulty. And so is the OP premise that only two answers are possible in this situation, period.

 Thank you for responding so I could tell you that personally.

 Maybe you could suggest other variables and start adding to the discussion in a meaningful sense?

Because, right now, I am seeing no value to your flawed observations here at all.

 Who said in first place, the only options are "lying" or "low demand"?

*edited due to excessive trolling*

 Then give us another. 

Calmly, clearly, and without personal attacks, if you can. 

    Why should he or anyone else for that matter? 

 because he has made the point, and now he must back it up. 

   Now answer the rest of my post vesavius. 

 

Not until this very basic point has been addressed. But your being evasive again ofc.

If you make or support a point, back it up. Do not throw chaff into the air in the forms of personal observations of the other person's agenda or motives or whatever as a distraction.

Thats just bad debate.

  MMO.Maverick

Inquisitor

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 7792

The middle road is the place to be!

9/26/11 9:14:46 AM#175
Originally posted by vesavius

Not until this very basic point has been addressed. But your being evasive again ofc.

If you make or support a point, back it up. Do not throw chaff into the air in the forms of personal observations of the other person's agenda or motives or whatever as a distraction.

Thats just bad debate.

Have you actually been reading this thread? Up till this post you've ignored all the posters and posts that mentioned other reasons than your kind of biased opinion that EA/BW must be a shady, untrustworthy company the way they use the word 'limited'. Next to that, you've insulted and flamed other posters who gave other reasons by saying that their motives are untrustworthy since they're fans and that they wouldn't say the same if it was about another company, which is a blatant lie.

 

When you want to talk 'bad debate', that's exactly the example you've been setting.

If you're really objective and openminded enough for an honest debate to acknowledge other opinions besides your own heavily negative one regarding EA/BW, I'd be happy to recapitulate the alternative reasons and arguments that other posters already have given to your OP question.

The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  GMan3

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/27/10
Posts: 2239

9/26/11 9:25:41 AM#176
Originally posted by vesavius
Originally posted by GMan3
Originally posted by vesavius
Originally posted by GMan3
Originally posted by vesavius
Originally posted by Sukiyaki
Originally posted by vesavius
Originally posted by popinjay
 
 

Originally posted by vesavius


Originally posted by popinjay
  
 
 


Originally posted by vesavius
It has to be one or the other, right?




I haven't seen a UFO, but people told me they exist.
   
They are either lying or mistaken about what they saw, right?


This makes no sense whatsoever.  
 
 

Precisely! /clap x 3

 
UFOs could exist but just because I haven't the vision to see beyond two self-imposed limited variables, the conclusion is faulty. And so is the OP premise that only two answers are possible in this situation, period.

 Thank you for responding so I could tell you that personally.

 Maybe you could suggest other variables and start adding to the discussion in a meaningful sense?

Because, right now, I am seeing no value to your flawed observations here at all.

 Who said in first place, the only options are "lying" or "low demand"?

*edited due to excessive trolling*

 Then give us another. 

Calmly, clearly, and without personal attacks, if you can. 

    Why should he or anyone else for that matter? 

 because he has made the point, and now he must back it up. 

   Now answer the rest of my post vesavius. 

 Not until this very basic point has been addressed. But your being evasive again ofc.

If you make or support a point, back it up. Do not throw chaff into the air in the forms of personal observations of the other person's agenda or motives or whatever as a distraction.

Thats just bad debate.

    BAD DEBATE?  The question HAS been answered numerous times.

    You are the one that is refusing to even look at any opinion other than your own grossly one sided one.  Many people have put out reasons they feel that EA/BioWare is not in the wrong/lying and you have done nothing but dismiss them because it does not fit the answer you have come to without ANY proof what so ever.

    Then when someone asks you if you would act this way for a game or developer YOU do like, you first ignore the question, then try to deride the questioner instead of giving an honest answer.  If anyone deserves to be treated with contempt here though, it is you for failing to answer a simple question OR provide any PROOF for your ignorant OP and further posts.

"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1824

9/26/11 1:17:46 PM#177

Standard marketing ploy to boost impulse sales by creating anxiety in the buyer by introducing a false sense of scarcity/urgency. It is what it is.....trying to rationalize it as something other then that is bunk.

On the other hand, it's the same tactic used by about 95% of the marketing departments in existance (regardless of the type of business/product.).... so nothing really noteworthy to single out Bioware for (besides it's probably EA calling the shots on this one anyway).

Bottom line, the only way this would be related to a real issue was if they thought thier server infrastructure couldn't handle the load (absolutely nothing to do with bugs in thier game code). Ten years ago, that might have been a legitimate case for that.... these days it really shouldn't be the case .For something that is expected to have the usage base TOR does and has been in Development as long as they have....if you are thier Infrastructure Manager and it's september and you are trying to tell your management that they have to limit sales for a product that isn't due to launch until end of December because you don't know if you can scale the infrastructure by then (even though pre-orders will tell you exactly how much you need to scale by) then you REALLY aught to consider a new career in the food services industry....because Network Operations is clearly not for you.

  kwai

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/27/04
Posts: 847

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti.

9/26/11 1:36:06 PM#178
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

Standard marketing ploy to boost impulse sales by creating anxiety in the buyer by introducing a false sense of scarcity/urgency. It is what it is.....trying to rationalize it as something other then that is bunk.

On the other hand, it's the same tactic used by about 95% of the marketing departments in existance (regardless of the type of business/product.).... so nothing really noteworthy to single out Bioware for (besides it's probably EA calling the shots on this one anyway).

Bottom line, the only way this would be related to a real issue was if they thought thier server infrastructure couldn't handle the load (absolutely nothing to do with bugs in thier game code). Ten years ago, that might have been a legitimate case for that.... these days it really shouldn't be the case .For something that is expected to have the usage base TOR does and has been in Development as long as they have....if you are thier Infrastructure Manager and it's september and you are trying to tell your management that they have to limit sales for a product that isn't due to launch until end of December because you don't know if you can scale the infrastructure by then (even though pre-orders will tell you exactly how much you need to scale by) then you REALLY aught to consider a new career in the food services industry....because Network Operations is clearly not for you.

+1

 

one of the few good reads on mmorpg.com in a long time

  GMan3

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/27/10
Posts: 2239

9/26/11 2:21:11 PM#179
Originally posted by kwai
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

Standard marketing ploy to boost impulse sales by creating anxiety in the buyer by introducing a false sense of scarcity/urgency. It is what it is.....trying to rationalize it as something other then that is bunk.

On the other hand, it's the same tactic used by about 95% of the marketing departments in existance (regardless of the type of business/product.).... so nothing really noteworthy to single out Bioware for (besides it's probably EA calling the shots on this one anyway).

Bottom line, the only way this would be related to a real issue was if they thought thier server infrastructure couldn't handle the load (absolutely nothing to do with bugs in thier game code). Ten years ago, that might have been a legitimate case for that.... these days it really shouldn't be the case .For something that is expected to have the usage base TOR does and has been in Development as long as they have....if you are thier Infrastructure Manager and it's september and you are trying to tell your management that they have to limit sales for a product that isn't due to launch until end of December because you don't know if you can scale the infrastructure by then (even though pre-orders will tell you exactly how much you need to scale by) then you REALLY aught to consider a new career in the food services industry....because Network Operations is clearly not for you.

+1

 one of the few good reads on mmorpg.com in a long time

    Perfectly valid point, but before you can go calling people liars, you have to have something crucial . . . PROOF!  I firmly believe that limiting pre-orders is PART of the marketing campaign, but I will not call BioWare or any other company a liar for the tactic until I can prove that they are not, at least in part, concerned about providing the absolutely smoothest launch possible.  For anyone that has been around for more than a little while, they know how rare that has been in the last few years AND how long it will be held against a company.  Heck, people still complain about the less than stellar launch of WoW and that was eight years ago.

    So, perfectly valid point that marketing was at least in part responsible for limiting the pre-orders, but calling them liars without proof is not valid.

"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7405

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  9/26/11 4:23:05 PM#180
Originally posted by GMan3
Originally posted by vesavius
Originally posted by GMan3
Originally posted by vesavius
Originally posted by GMan3
Originally posted by vesavius
Originally posted by Sukiyaki
Originally posted by vesavius
Originally posted by popinjay
 
 

Originally posted by vesavius


Originally posted by popinjay
  
 
 


Originally posted by vesavius
It has to be one or the other, right?




I haven't seen a UFO, but people told me they exist.
   
They are either lying or mistaken about what they saw, right?


This makes no sense whatsoever.  
 
 

Precisely! /clap x 3

 
UFOs could exist but just because I haven't the vision to see beyond two self-imposed limited variables, the conclusion is faulty. And so is the OP premise that only two answers are possible in this situation, period.

 Thank you for responding so I could tell you that personally.

 Maybe you could suggest other variables and start adding to the discussion in a meaningful sense?

Because, right now, I am seeing no value to your flawed observations here at all.

 Who said in first place, the only options are "lying" or "low demand"?

*edited due to excessive trolling*

 Then give us another. 

Calmly, clearly, and without personal attacks, if you can. 

    Why should he or anyone else for that matter? 

 because he has made the point, and now he must back it up. 

   Now answer the rest of my post vesavius. 

 Not until this very basic point has been addressed. But your being evasive again ofc.

If you make or support a point, back it up. Do not throw chaff into the air in the forms of personal observations of the other person's agenda or motives or whatever as a distraction.

Thats just bad debate.

    BAD DEBATE?  The question HAS been answered numerous times.

 

No, no it really hasnt.

 

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