Originally posted by AvsRock21

Originally posted by nblitz

The enchanting and manastoning system depresses me and makes me not want to play for extended periods of time. Those are my main reasons why I have quit several times and why I don't stay subbed for longer periods. 

This is also probably the reason why many dub it a grind and do not recommend the game to others. I know I haven't.

Also I've grown a bit tired of the click-to-attack & stand-there-and-trade-blows-combat (I can't remember the word for this) but I wouldn't unsub from a fun game for that.

 

Why are you keyboard turning and spell clicking?  Even in WoW they call this NOOB.  Try using hotkeys.  Change 'A' & 'D' to strafe left and strafe right.  Use the mouse to turn the character or camera.  Then the first hotkeys you can use are Q & E.  And in most P2P games you can use Shift + E and Shift + Q.  That's 4 spells right there, for two keys.  

 

Once you start playing this way, you will never go back.

I do play with hotkeys. What I was talking about was the tab-targeting combat which someone else immediately understood what I was trying to say.

I find it boring and silly nowadays.

Edit: playing nice

yeah tab targeting combat must go away forever it sucks in essence, i can tell dragon nest best feature its to have no tab targeting carebear system, i hope both SW-KOTOR and GW2 dont have it , well at least all gameplay available from GW2 and its developers tells theres no tab targeting crap aged system, i hope it will like that.

Anyway with those AAA's mmos coming i think both WoW , Aion, AoC, Lotro and more crappy old xit mmos will go deep down

Originally posted by pedrostrik

yeah tab targeting combat must go away forever it sucks in essence, i can tell dragon nest best feature its to have no tab targeting carebear system, i hope both SW-KOTOR and GW2 dont have it , well at least all gameplay available from GW2 and its developers tells theres no tab targeting crap aged system, i hope it will like that.

Anyway with those AAA's mmos coming i think both WoW , Aion, AoC, Lotro and more crappy old xit mmos will go deep down

Pretty sure GW2 and SWTOR both has some form of tab targetting

Only TERA is pure action combat with manual aiming.

I actually enjoyed the game when it first released, I enjoyed the zones and quest. Graphics were nice, loved the idea behind Rifting but, once I hit 30s, I went to this one zone whcih was the only place I had quest and just died over and over.

I understood it was a pvp game, just wasnt fun to be easy points for high level players/groups. I would of liked to go to another zone but wasnt able to find one. Ran around for a bit, tried new classes but kept getting to that one point in the game where I couldnt go around the zone and was forced into PvP.

So I quit, I am always tempted to come back and try it. In fact, I just tried to see my account information. Went to the website, put in my info and all I get is contact customer service. I cant answer questions or even put in my email for a request of account info.

Shame, I am looking for something to hold me over til Skyrim/Diablo3. Guess it will not be Rift as I cant even obtain my account information to give them a try without having to call somebody. I have better things to do.

Originally posted by Clypto75

I actually enjoyed the game when it first released, I enjoyed the zones and quest. Graphics were nice, loved the idea behind Rifting but, once I hit 30s, I went to this one zone whcih was the only place I had quest and just died over and over.

I understood it was a pvp game, just wasnt fun to be easy points for high level players/groups. I would of liked to go to another zone but wasnt able to find one. Ran around for a bit, tried new classes but kept getting to that one point in the game where I couldnt go around the zone and was forced into PvP.

I never even bought Aion because I had the exact opposite problem during beta...zero PvP. People call Aion a PvP game yet I leveled from 1-25 about 15 times during the beta and not one time did I get the chance to attack or be attacked by another player. From what I can tell the devs pull a bait and switch on you, making the game purely PvE then around 30 introducing you to PvP. I hate bait and switch games and ultimately did not buy it because of that. I also disliked the sounds my characters made everytime they cast a spell or ability, but I was ok turning the volume down to avoid the HAI-YAH!

Originally posted by Murashu

I never even bought Aion because I had the exact opposite problem during beta...zero PvP. People call Aion a PvP game yet I leveled from 1-25 about 15 times during the beta and not one time did I get the chance to attack or be attacked by another player. From what I can tell the devs pull a bait and switch on you, making the game purely PvE then around 30 introducing you to PvP. I hate bait and switch games and ultimately did not buy it because of that. I also disliked the sounds my characters made everytime they cast a spell or ability, but I was ok turning the volume down to avoid the HAI-YAH!

Glad to hear that BS bait and switch screwed them over with PvP as well. I thought it was an okay PvE game, but then the PvE basically disappeared except for the most basic of content to be replaced by PvP almost in full. The whole thing made it where I will never trust a single word Brian Knox says again. He painted this picture of full PvE throughout and PvP being completely optional when this clearly wasn't the case to anyone who even heard about the Korean version of the game.

I can't speak for everyone but can say mostof the people you here constantly complaining about not having a game to play wouldn't even want to play Aion as for alot of them it would be a bit too close to the traditional themeparks they already don't want to play.

For me one of the only things I constantly heard about what made the game so great is something that doesn't appeal to me in any way and that is the flight.  For me I'm done trying new non sci fi mmorpg's for a while just sick of the same ole same here nothing about the game turns me off but equally nothing about it turning me on.

Originally posted by xKingdomx

Originally posted by pedrostrik

yeah tab targeting combat must go away forever it sucks in essence, i can tell dragon nest best feature its to have no tab targeting carebear system, i hope both SW-KOTOR and GW2 dont have it , well at least all gameplay available from GW2 and its developers tells theres no tab targeting crap aged system, i hope it will like that.

Anyway with those AAA's mmos coming i think both WoW , Aion, AoC, Lotro and more crappy old xit mmos will go deep down

Pretty sure GW2 and SWTOR both has some form of tab targetting

Only TERA is pure action combat with manual aiming.

Arenanet told its no tab targeting system and all atacks could be avoided with player skill, not the stupid stats dodge, parrys or other crap stats, and on tera last patchs they offer to ranged classes a kind of targetting system, well something similar at least.

Vindictus or dragon nest are free to play and they have the best combat system made till now on mmo's , and thats odd

Originally posted by pedrostrik

Originally posted by xKingdomx

Originally posted by pedrostrik

yeah tab targeting combat must go away forever it sucks in essence, i can tell dragon nest best feature its to have no tab targeting carebear system, i hope both SW-KOTOR and GW2 dont have it , well at least all gameplay available from GW2 and its developers tells theres no tab targeting crap aged system, i hope it will like that.

Anyway with those AAA's mmos coming i think both WoW , Aion, AoC, Lotro and more crappy old xit mmos will go deep down

Pretty sure GW2 and SWTOR both has some form of tab targetting

Only TERA is pure action combat with manual aiming.

Arenanet told its no tab targeting system and all atacks could be avoided with player skill, not the stupid stats dodge, parrys or other crap stats, and on tera last patchs they offer to ranged classes a kind of targetting system, well something similar at least.

Vindictus or dragon nest are free to play and they have the best combat system made till now on mmo's , and thats odd

Question

1. Just because you can attempt to avoid all attacks with player skills, doesn't mean there aren't tab targetting? They are both independant from each other......GW2 has a form of targetting (target has a hue around it), projectiles and other attack are actual physics object that causes damage when hitting an enemy, with no auto tracking and changing direction. Whether it is using tab to change target is the question.

2. Vindictus' combat was fun, but it was far from being 'best' in MMO, how far in did you play the game until? The gameplay is practically the same from start to finish. But then again, so is every single MMO out there. LEarning the combat system in a MMO takes you the first 5 min upon playing the game, the rest is the same, with a new extra hotkey to click, or button to use. The underlying mechanics are all the same.

If I had to choose the best, GW is the probably one of the better designed. Each skill requires a different situation to use effectively, the limited hotkey bar makes targetting to be feasible with clicking instead of tabbing for 1 min trying to get it right. Putting a limitation of your choices makes the variety of builds and balances much better.

I've been playing aion since launch, and before (on far far away land ^-^), and i have to say that has:

- great graphic - imo those are marvelous comparing with newer games

- great action skils pve and pvp - just great atacking, defense, heal... lol

- not so great faction features - never got why we can only atack fortress' on a determine hour, that sucks.

- not so great manastone/enchatstone socketing - it's desperate, once i used more than a 100 phys crit normal manastone to enchant yellow 4 sockets lvl 55 boots (crucible ones).

But still, i enjoy it a lot. Instances, campaign quests, the mentor system... And about the one sided faction pvp, hmmm, thats not true on my server. Sometimes, using the rules, it's cool to be the low faction, because of the buff. 

Patch 3.0 will turn it into a totally diferent game, maybe more western, i dont know, but we still have to wait about 4/6 months. I would say it will be the 2012 mmorpg revelation, instead of the blockbusters GW2, Tera and old republica. Wait and see.

i personally dont play it because when i played it before it left a bad taste in my mouth, and even though they seem to have recently fixed almost everything i had a problem with when i tried it, they still charge a monthly fee. EVERY monthly fee game i've ever played has always failed at putting out content fast, RIFT has been the only one so far thats been close and even they are having longer and longer times between patches as a sub only game. I'd much rather pay money on a game for cosmetics, pets then give it to a game that's fail using the money irresponsibly by not cranking out quality stable fun content.

and when i say content i don't mean raids, dailies, new factions to grind rep for, or impossible to achieve gear grinds with forced grouping or forced pvp.

I mean epic solo/duo/small group content thats a main storyline that changes the world around you according to your choices.

not many mmos will be doing that, SWTOR has a good idea about changing how npcs react to you but they have yet to do what GW2 is planning where the entire world changes depending on your choices, not just some npc's reaction to you.

Originally posted by xKingdomx

1. Just because you can attempt to avoid all attacks with player skills, doesn't mean there aren't tab targetting? They are both independant from each other......GW2 has a form of targetting (target has a hue around it), projectiles and other attack are actual physics object that causes damage when hitting an enemy, with no auto tracking and changing direction. Whether it is using tab to change target is the question.

i ignore because there are dozen other mmo's that look more interesting to ME. not saying aion is bad game never tryed it just saying not my cup of tea

Originally posted by askdaboss

Originally posted by xKingdomx

1. Just because you can attempt to avoid all attacks with player skills, doesn't mean there aren't tab targetting? They are both independant from each other......GW2 has a form of targetting (target has a hue around it), projectiles and other attack are actual physics object that causes damage when hitting an enemy, with no auto tracking and changing direction. Whether it is using tab to change target is the question.

 

Played GW2 today, and if I understand correctly you have an "invisible crosshair" which targets the ennemy in front of you as soon as you start an attack move (a bit like tab targetting), and if you press tab, you can select an ennemy without even pressing an attack skill (from further distance too).

However, a lot of the skills are "directional" (not the basic sword/mace/etc. attacks though) which means that you can strike the air in front of you if the ennemy you selected is behind you (although it will be "tab targetted").

Can't say for sure though, was fairly short and confusing.

 

If there are several ennemies in front of you, the basic strikes will go to the tab targetted ennemy, and the directional strikes/aoe strikes will hit ennemies according to the direction/area.

 

 

As for Aion, it was advertised as a PvPvE game, but NCSoft (at least in the US/EU version) started breaking PvP (impossible to rift to the ennemy land, new PvP zone full of elite mobs making it difficult to fight players and move around at the same time without dying from PvE attacks, new PvP zone is conditionned by the possession of forts in your PvE zone so to PvP you need to PvE first). Really I think it was a fun PvP game in the beginning, but they made a few bad decisions along the way.

Also, PvP is really grindy: you have to do instanciated PvP for months before you can do open world PvP, but I think their instanciated PvP is crap (I bought Aion for open world PvP, fortresses, not instance PvP, other games are better at this).

 

What's left now? PvE and I think a lot of PvE games are - once again - far superior to Aion in PvE terms.

 

So, IMHO they have neither good PvP neither good PvE. Niche fail.

While I'm not an actual fan of the game, that's just not true. The PvE is pretty much par with any other next-door MMORPG.

What sets Aion apart from other titles is the ethereal style and setting and the flying mechanics. The idea of a fragmented void with floating islands on it for PvE and PvP is pretty innovative and hasn't been done before.

Some people like this anime-pop angels vs. demons in space style, some don't. Fair enough. But it DOES set Aion apart enought to make it worth mentioning as a solid and polished title.

What keeps your regular westerner away from the game is the heavy workload you gotta put into the game to achieve relevant stuff. And this comes from 2 massively different attitudes.

Westerners want to see progress, and quick, and when they reach cap pick up another char and max this one out too. Most westerners are, at least to a certain extent, altlovers. The more (hard)core gamers use to have 6 or 7 maxed out characters and swap them for ingame tasks accordingly. They see the game as the thing they want to see and play (and achieve, oh how the westerner loves "achieving"), the character is merely a vehicle for that.

Whereas your next best asian player usually picks up one character and devotes his playtime to this character. If it takes 3 years to level it up, so be it. They see the character as the actual investment mainly, they want to equip it, share it, care for it. That's why cosmetic options where omnipresent in asian games (dyes, makeup, hairstyle, clothing) ages before some bloke grumpily introduced "this gay cosmetic stuff" into western games.

And THIS is why Aion is not receiving the praise it could in the western world.

M

PS: Oh and on a sidenote, tab combat in Aion requires lots and lots of timing, there are a lots of skills on medium cooldowns and specialized functions. Saying tab-targeting doesn't require skill maybe a valid argument, but the Aion might not be your best example...

pvp and crafting were big letdowns for me, rest of the game was good for the most part. i loved my spiritmaster.

I found some aspects of the game to be great, but then too much problems were game breaking, and too much is just too much.

Its a pity though because the game was good overall, but they had to fix it a lot quicker.

The main game breaking stuff were: the launch was a mess with the overloaded server and the merge (i personally reroll 3 time because of the queue), the leveling holes (at 30+) that made it look like a grindy game which it wasn't, the class unbalance especially in aerial combat, and the worst was definitely the twink and pvp gear unbalance that totally mess the best aspect of the game with the rifts.

And i don't talk about RMT, not game breaking but enough to kill any desire to play the game further. And some of those are still in game now, like aerial combat and class balance, so even if i wanted to come back, there is no use. I probably would have played the game a lot more if my preferred class, assassin wasn't a mess, a pity because the gameplay of this class was awesome.

Originally posted by Meridion

[...]

While I'm not an actual fan of the game, that's just not true. The PvE is pretty much par with any other next-door MMORPG.

What sets Aion apart from other titles is the ethereal style and setting and the flying mechanics. The idea of a fragmented void with floating islands on it for PvE and PvP is pretty innovative and hasn't been done before.

Some people like this anime-pop angels vs. demons in space style, some don't. Fair enough. But it DOES set Aion apart enought to make it worth mentioning as a solid and polished title.

What keeps your regular westerner away from the game is the heavy workload you gotta put into the game to achieve relevant stuff. And this comes from 2 massively different attitudes.

Westerners want to see progress, and quick, and when they reach cap pick up another char and max this one out too. Most westerners are, at least to a certain extent, altlovers. The more (hard)core gamers use to have 6 or 7 maxed out characters and swap them for ingame tasks accordingly. They see the game as the thing they want to see and play (and achieve, oh how the westerner loves "achieving"), the character is merely a vehicle for that.

Whereas your next best asian player usually picks up one character and devotes his playtime to this character. If it takes 3 years to level it up, so be it. They see the character as the actual investment mainly, they want to equip it, share it, care for it. That's why cosmetic options where omnipresent in asian games (dyes, makeup, hairstyle, clothing) ages before some bloke grumpily introduced "this gay cosmetic stuff" into western games.

And THIS is why Aion is not receiving the praise it could in the western world.

M

PS: Oh and on a sidenote, tab combat in Aion requires lots and lots of timing, there are a lots of skills on medium cooldowns and specialized functions. Saying tab-targeting doesn't require skill maybe a valid argument, but the Aion might not be your best example...

I still think Aion endgame PVE is not on par in terms of quantity with AAA titles, could be on par with non-AAA titles though. At least this used to be true when I played the game where they did not have that many dungeons end game, not sure about now... I played mostly for PvP though, so it was not a big deal for me. However, as time passed they were introducing more PvE content and little PvP content (gimping/preventing PvP as well), I started raising eyebrows and feeling disappointed (so yes, this was a good game).

I really loved the abyss, however they are pretty much empty since they added the new PvP zone on the ground (another reason why I left).

Aion was definitely polished, I really enjoyed my experience and would recommend the title to anyone. It had its niche of players (agree a lot of them were anime fans, I was not). Still, I maintain my criticism that the title was advertised as a big PvP title but the change of focus towards more and more PvE made them fall in between and never achieve greatness in any of these two areas. Could be just me though, I know lots of people are still content with the game.

I have NEVER said Aion combat did not require skills, actually I am pretty much with you here: playing templar involved sword waving in between skills (for auto attack), weapon switching, and about 30+ skills with different timers and combos, and as you said good timing, it was a really fast paced MMO. Probably one of the most enjoyable so far if you make the most of your character (not bash the 3-4 same skills). I was just replying to that other guy who randomly asked about GW2, so sorry about the off-topic confusion.

The opinion I was trying to express is: I think playing Aion now is a bit late (you are missing on the good old days of the abyss PvP which was one of the big things of the game), but it is still a good fun game. And you will probably have more PvE content nowadays, so yeah, if you like it the game will keep you busy.

Originally posted by Requiamer

I found some aspects of the game to be great, but then too much problems were game breaking, and too much is just too much.

Its a pity though because the game was good overall, but they had to fix it a lot quicker.

The main game breaking stuff were: the launch was a mess with the overloaded server and the merge (i personally reroll 3 time because of the queue), the leveling holes (at 30+) that made it look like a grindy game which it wasn't, the class unbalance especially in aerial combat, and the worst was definitely the twink and pvp gear unbalance that totally mess the best aspect of the game with the rifts.

And i don't talk about RMT, not game breaking but enough to kill any desire to play the game further. And some of those are still in game now, like aerial combat and class balance, so even if i wanted to come back, there is no use. I probably would have played the game a lot more if my preferred class, assassin wasn't a mess, a pity because the gameplay of this class was awesome.

I have to agree with all of this, despite wanting to like Aion.

I have just uninstalled again, and tbh it really is the last time. When I have left before it's always been with the 'let it mature' mentality, but this time no.

TBH, with CoH being so much fun right now GW2 coming in the future I don't see a time when I will want to play it again with all it's still current issues. Pus now, environment GFX wise, it is starting to ropey so it hasnt even got that going for it.

It really is a schizophrenic poorly thought out and poorly implemented experience. Maybe if they had cared about their Western market things could have been different, but hey ho.

I think people need to accept that games have flaws. All games will have flaws, GW2 will have flaws, SWTOR will have flaws, TSW will have flaws, WoW has flaws.

Aion will not be an exception to this rule. It is a matter of whether the player will enjoy the game enough to look over the flaws and simply enjoy the game, that is what makes a good game. 

Originally posted by xKingdomx

I think people need to accept that games have flaws. All games will have flaws, GW2 will have flaws, SWTOR will have flaws, TSW will have flaws, WoW has flaws.

Aion will not be an exception to this rule. It is a matter of whether the player will enjoy the game enough to look over the flaws and simply enjoy the game, that is what makes a good game. 

I think people in general do accpet that all games have flaws... I think the problem comes when the tipping point of flaws vs enjoyment is reached.

Aion's glaring and self destructive flaws far out weigh it's enjoyment or 'potentiol' for me, even with all the good will I have been pepared to extend to the game in the past.

And this is even without them selling non fail manastones in their cash shop now (even if for a 'limited time', which we all know means 'feel the market reaction out and test the price point for a permanent launch')