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9/21/11 3:43:23 PM#21
Originally posted by Grand_Nagus Not sure that answers the question that was asked... two EP's, the CEO and other top level executives all leaving a company within a short timeframe does not convey the message of a "company doing well". |
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9/21/11 4:23:27 PM#22
I dont think there is any question that Cryptic was suffering under Atari's ownership. That is the owership in which the people you are talking about left. Once the deal with PW was underway Craig came back. As far as Dan's motivations for leaving at this point, he said:
" I've been given the opportunity to start the next chapter in my career that allows me to combine many of my past experiences into something new. It will also allow my family to move into San Francisco where my beautiful Fiancee Kimberly has worked for years. " http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3766591#post3766591
But again, the people who left up to this point did so under Atari's ownership, which was obviously troubled.
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9/21/11 4:29:43 PM#23
IMO, Cryptic hasn't been doing well at all. City of Heroes was the best game they produced. Champions Online was the spiritual sequel to CoH but wasn't recieved as well. STO, give me a break. Look, if you hate Atari then hate it but don't try this BS of blaming Cryptic's problems on Atari. You can't get away with that here. |
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9/21/11 4:34:51 PM#24
Originally posted by waynejr2 Why exactly is that? The only difference between COH and Champs/STO was Atari. So what makes you so certain that Atari had absolutely nothing to do with Cryptic's sudden change? |
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9/21/11 5:06:21 PM#25
I do not feel that Dan leaving Cryptic says anything bad about Cryptic at all. Like Dan said, he is taking a job to be near his fiancee. Family is ALWAYS more important then a job. Personally I think PWE is a great thing for Cryptic. If the way PWE treats Runic(the makers of Torchlight) is any indication of how PWE will treat Cryptic, they are in good hands. As a matter of fact Cryptic has already said that they are bringing more people on board. |
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9/21/11 5:08:39 PM#26
Originally posted by Grand_Nagus Thank you for clarifying. |
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Kost
 Newshound
Joined: 1/15/10
In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro. |
9/21/11 5:36:29 PM#27
Dan was quite possibly the most mediocre, unqualified individual that Cryptic had on the team. I see this as good news, a step in the right direction. |
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9/21/11 7:56:51 PM#28
Commander Kruge: GET OUT! GET OUT OF THERE! GET OUT! 
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9/21/11 8:37:45 PM#29
Originally posted by Grand_Nagus To be realistic, it is NOT a fact that Dan is leaving to pursue a better job, that IS what Dan said but he has also been very secretive about what that new job is. Could it be he was given notice by PW at the beginning of September and was able to find a new job in SF during the last three weeks with the help of his fiance? The fact is, we dont really know what happened, all we know for sure is that Dan is leaving. As for the second point, do you have some proof of Zinc being able to find a job in the year he was gone? Surely any software developer that hired a former EP would have listed it in a PR article somewhere on the net? You cant ask me for proof without providing any to back your end either. Isnt that one of the rules of acquisition :) I'm surprised that you have taken the stance that the problems of STO are all to blame on Atari. I remember a time when you questioned some of the things/decisions made by Cryptic. Can you honestly say that Cryptic has done a great job with STO and that it is a success in some way/shape/form? As a company, Cryptic has lost money since day one. The game was universally rated at 6 out of 10 or mediocre at best by all the real gaming sites/magazines. Klingons still have less than half the content the fed side has and then there is the fact of many senior people leaving the company. I dont hold anything against Dan and I think he did an awesome job with what he was left with. I am sorry to see him go and I can understand how another company would want him after the display of hard work he put into the game. But Dan is the ONLY one out of all that have left that seemed like he had a bright future ahead of him. One last thought about Zinc... You have seen the financials from Atari and know that Cryptic has been losing millions each year, its a fact. We heard many months ago that Atari was trying to sell Cryptic off. What GOOD developer with a bright future would want to go work for a company that was in that state of affairs over the summer? Seriously, if coding was your life would you move your family out and start working for a company in that condition? The only person who would do such a thing is someone looking for experience (a junior coder) or someone who was getting paid to turn it around (like a consultant) or someone who could not find work elsewhere. I would be willing to bet good money that Zinc took a heck of a pay cut to come back as COO and that he was not Cryptics first choice for that position. I work with people at the C-Level and I can tell you, we look at a company's financials and reputation before coming aboard.
No offense, but if you haven't hit 50 by now, you kinda are less of a player - Cthulhu23 The very idea that SV is in financial trouble is wrong. The numbers they release from time to time are just that, numbers. -Username509 |
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9/21/11 8:42:19 PM#30
-- at which point he will leave to "pursue new challenges" -- Those of us who work in large corporations know what that means...asked to leave. Maybe someone at Cryptic finally grew a brain. |
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9/21/11 8:44:29 PM#31
Originally posted by Kost I would beg to differ. I think Dan did an incredible job with what he was left with. He worked a lot, he would post on the boards at midnight and he tried to stay in touch with the community. I feel he wanted much more to happen with STO than he had the resources for. Creating something new is way easier than changing something already built and Dan got saddled with a mess. I think you will be seeing Dan's name again in a good way over the next decade. No offense, but if you haven't hit 50 by now, you kinda are less of a player - Cthulhu23 The very idea that SV is in financial trouble is wrong. The numbers they release from time to time are just that, numbers. -Username509 |
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XAPGames
 Elite Member
Joined: 3/30/10
Don't expect great artwork from a coder. It just doesn't happen. |
9/21/11 8:47:55 PM#32
Sounds to me like a wise move. I'd much rather make a polite exit while things are good, rather than wait for them to change. Currently in development Wizards and Champions (formerly ActionMMORPG) |
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9/21/11 8:53:42 PM#33
Actually, the burden of proof lies with the person making the claim, not the person questioning it. You previously suggested that Craig couldnt find any other work. So since you are the person making the claim, then the burden of proof lies with you to support it. If you are interested in what "burden of proof" means, here is a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof |
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9/21/11 9:24:01 PM#34
Probably because STO is a trainwreck and has gone through how many producers so far?
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9/21/11 9:25:14 PM#35
Originally posted by Xondar123 Dan is the 2nd. Not that hard to keep up with. |
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9/21/11 9:27:06 PM#36
Originally posted by Grand_Nagus So then whoever takes his place will be the third producer since the game launched. I'm sorry, but no matter how you spin it, that does not bode well for a game at all.
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Gruug
Hard Core Member
Joined: 4/03/08
The more you know, the more you know you don't know. |
9/21/11 9:40:36 PM#37
Originally posted by Grand_Nagus
What is put out as the reason doesn't particularly mean that he isn't taking the opprotunity to just jump ship OR to give cover for his desire to leave to to friction with PW. No proof of this of course but it is just curious that he choose to leave or was not asked to stay longer by PW. Seems with the "big deal" that the F2P launch is that PW would want him to stay at least until that is launched. Since he will be gone by F2P launch, it looks much more like he ever wanted out to avoid the trainwreck OR PW wanted him out so that they can start doing things their way sooner. I have very little faith in PW's ability to put together quality games. I have looked a a good number of what they have and I just don't see anything the quality of STO at the moment. I just think they will have a certain way they are going to do things and that way will not fall within the "vision" that Dan had for the game. My opinion of course and we may never know Dan's take for sure regardless of what is being said right now. Let's party like it is 1863! |
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9/21/11 9:44:27 PM#38
Originally posted by Xondar123 Yep, that math does = 3, your right about that. What you are forgetting though(or simply dont know) is that Cryptic was recently purchased by Perfect World, which is actually a bigger company than Blizzard and is making a huge profit. So while I dont disagree STO has had a troubled past under Atari, its probably in the best shape its ever been now under new ownership. Atari was so far in debt they had to use the majority of the 50 mil PW paid for Cryptic just to pay off debt. PW actually has the resources necessary to full support its games. |
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9/21/11 9:48:14 PM#39
Originally posted by Gruug Oh thats fine, your completely entitled to your opinion. However there are literally millions of people playing their games who disagree with you. |
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9/22/11 5:37:20 AM#40
Funny, I'm getting a weird Shatner vibe from that pic. :)
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