Originally posted by Grand_Nagus

The fact that the very reason Dan is leaving is because he is moving on to a better job is proof that working at Cryptic isnt some kind of black mark on your resume. Someone obviously wanted to hire him knowing full well where he worked previously. There is no reason to think Zinc was any different, unless you actually have some kind of proof of him not being able to find another job.

Not sure that answers the question that was asked... two EP's, the CEO and other top level executives all leaving a company within a short timeframe does not convey the message of a "company doing well".  

Originally posted by ShardWarrior

Originally posted by Grand_Nagus

The fact that the very reason Dan is leaving is because he is moving on to a better job is proof that working at Cryptic isnt some kind of black mark on your resume. Someone obviously wanted to hire him knowing full well where he worked previously. There is no reason to think Zinc was any different, unless you actually have some kind of proof of him not being able to find another job.

Not sure that answers the question that was asked... two EP's, the CEO and other top level executives all leaving a company within a short timeframe does not convey the message of a "company doing well".  

 

I dont think there is any question that Cryptic was suffering under Atari's ownership. That is the owership in which the people you are talking about left. Once the deal with PW was underway Craig came back. As far as Dan's motivations for leaving at this point, he said:

" I've been given the opportunity to start the next chapter in my career that allows me to combine many of my past experiences into something new. It will also allow my family to move into San Francisco where my beautiful Fiancee Kimberly has worked for years. "

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3766591#post3766591

But again, the people who left up to this point did so under Atari's ownership, which was obviously troubled.

IMO, Cryptic hasn't been doing well at all.  City of Heroes was the best game they produced.  Champions Online was the spiritual sequel to CoH but wasn't recieved as well.  STO, give me a break.   Look, if you hate Atari then hate it but don't try this BS of blaming Cryptic's problems on Atari.  You can't get away with that here.

Originally posted by waynejr2

IMO, Cryptic hasn't been doing well at all.  City of Heroes was the best game they produced.  Champions Online was the spiritual sequel to CoH but wasn't recieved as well.  STO, give me a break.   Look, if you hate Atari then hate it but don't try this BS of blaming Cryptic's problems on Atari.  You can't get away with that here.

Why exactly is that? The only difference between COH and Champs/STO was Atari. So what makes you so certain that Atari had absolutely nothing to do with Cryptic's sudden change?

I do not feel that Dan leaving Cryptic says anything bad about Cryptic at all.  Like Dan said, he is taking a job to be near his fiancee.  Family is ALWAYS more important then a job. 

Personally I think PWE is a great thing for Cryptic.  If the way PWE treats Runic(the makers of Torchlight) is any indication of how PWE will treat Cryptic, they are in good hands.

As a matter of fact Cryptic has already said that they are bringing more people on board. 

Originally posted by Grand_Nagus

Just a clarification: Cryptic's deal is with CBS, not Paramount. Back in 2006 the Star Trek IP was divided between CBS(the TV series) and Paramount(the movies). So CBS is the one that is involved with STO.

Thank you for clarifying.

Dan was quite possibly the most mediocre, unqualified individual that Cryptic had on the team.

I see this as good news, a step in the right direction.

Originally posted by nyxium

 

Capt. Kirk: Computer, destruct sequence 1, code 1, 1-A.

 

Scotty: Computer, Commander Montgomery Scott, Chief Engineering Officer, destruct sequence 2, code 1, 1-A, 2-B.

 

Chekov: Computer, this is Commander Pavel Chekov, Acting Science Officer, destruct sequence 3, code 1-B, 2-B, 3.

 

Computer: Destruct sequence completed and engaged, awaiting final code for one minute countdown.

 

Capt. Kirk: Code zero, zero, zero...destruct...zero.

 

Computer: Destruct sequence is activated.

 

Commander Kruge: GET OUT! GET OUT OF THERE! GET OUT!

Originally posted by Grand_Nagus

The fact that the very reason Dan is leaving is because he is moving on to a better job is proof that working at Cryptic isnt some kind of black mark on your resume. Someone obviously wanted to hire him knowing full well where he worked previously. There is no reason to think Zinc was any different, unless you actually have some kind of proof of him not being able to find another job.

To be realistic, it is NOT a fact that Dan is leaving to pursue a better job, that IS what Dan said but he has also been very secretive about what that new job is.  Could it be he was given notice by PW at the beginning of September and was able to find a new job in SF during the last three weeks with the help of his fiance?  The fact is, we dont really know what happened, all we know for sure is that Dan is leaving.  As for the second point, do you have some proof of Zinc being able to find a job in the year he was gone?  Surely any software developer that hired a former EP would have listed it in a PR article somewhere on the net?  You cant ask me for proof without providing any to back your end either.  Isnt that one of the rules of acquisition  :)

I'm surprised that you have taken the stance that the problems of STO are all to blame on Atari.  I remember a time when you questioned some of the things/decisions made by Cryptic.  Can you honestly say that Cryptic has done a great job with STO and that it is a success in some way/shape/form?  As a company, Cryptic has lost money since day one.  The game was universally rated at 6 out of 10 or mediocre at best by all the real gaming sites/magazines.  Klingons still have less than half the content the fed side has and then there is the fact of many senior people leaving the company. 

I dont hold anything against Dan and I think he did an awesome job with what he was left with.  I am sorry to see him go and I can understand how another company would want him after the display of hard work he put into the game.  But Dan is the ONLY one out of all that have left that seemed like he had a bright future ahead of him. 

One last thought about Zinc...  You have seen the financials from Atari and know that Cryptic has been losing millions each year, its a fact.  We heard many months ago that Atari was trying to sell Cryptic off.  What GOOD developer with a bright future would want to go work for a company that was in that state of affairs over the summer?  Seriously, if coding was your life would you move your family out and start working for a company in that condition?  The only person who would do such a thing is someone looking for experience (a junior coder) or someone who was getting paid to turn it around (like a consultant) or someone who could not find work elsewhere.  I would be willing to bet good money that Zinc took a heck of a pay cut to come back as COO and that he was not Cryptics first choice for that position.  I work with people at the C-Level and I can tell you, we look at a company's financials and reputation before coming aboard. 

-- at which point he will leave to "pursue new challenges" --

Those of us who work in large corporations know what that means...asked to leave.

Maybe someone at Cryptic finally grew a brain.

Originally posted by Kost

Dan was quite possibly the most mediocre, unqualified individual that Cryptic had on the team.

I see this as good news, a step in the right direction.

I would beg to differ.  I think Dan did an incredible job with what he was left with.  He worked a lot, he would post on the boards at midnight and he tried to stay in touch with the community.  I feel he wanted much more to happen with STO than he had the resources for.  Creating something new is way easier than changing something already built and Dan got saddled with a mess.  I think you will be seeing Dan's name again in a good way over the next decade.

Sounds to me like a wise move.  I'd much rather make a polite exit while things are good, rather than wait for them to change.

Originally posted by Talonsin

As for the second point, do you have some proof of Zinc being able to find a job in the year he was gone?  Surely any software developer that hired a former EP would have listed it in a PR article somewhere on the net?  You cant ask me for proof without providing any to back your end either.  

Actually, the burden of proof lies with the person making the claim, not the person questioning it. You previously suggested that Craig couldnt find any other work. So since you are the person making the claim, then the burden of proof lies with you to support it. If you are interested in what "burden of proof" means, here is a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

Why is it that as soon as someone moves on to another job the mmo community automatic makes fail doom and gloom posts. "OMG the game is truly fail if x and x left" or "he must not like whats going on in the game". They automatically ass-sume that something is wrong with the game or the worst. Sometimes its true, but not in all cases. Maybe the guy did a good job at Cryptic and decided to move on. Until Dan Stahl says different that's the way Im lookin at it.

***Raises plunger in salute to Dan Stahl***

 

Probably because STO is a trainwreck and has gone through how many producers so far?

Originally posted by Xondar123

Probably because STO is a trainwreck and has gone through how many producers so far?

Dan is the 2nd. Not that hard to keep up with.

Originally posted by Grand_Nagus

Originally posted by Xondar123

Probably because STO is a trainwreck and has gone through how many producers so far?

Dan is the 2nd. Not that hard to keep up with.

So then whoever takes his place will be the third producer since the game launched. I'm sorry, but no matter how you spin it, that does not bode well for a game at all.

Originally posted by Grand_Nagus

Originally posted by Gruug

Interesting that Dan is leaving just before STO goes F2P. Even though he says he supports and always supported a move to f2p, I just wonder if new owners at Perfect Worlds didn't like what they were paying him and asked him to leave. This does not bode well for STO. STO has come a long ways under Dan's leadership since he took over. I just don't see it continuing.

 

Apparently it has nothing to do with that:

" I've been given the opportunity to start the next chapter in my career that allows me to combine many of my past experiences into something new. It will also allow my family to move into San Francisco where my beautiful Fiancee Kimberly has worked for years. "

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3766591#post3766591

Cant blame him either. When better job opportunities open up you should take them.

What is put out as the reason doesn't particularly mean that he isn't taking the opprotunity to just jump ship OR to give cover for his desire to leave to to friction with PW. No proof of this of course but it is just curious that he choose to leave or was not asked to stay longer by PW. Seems with the "big deal" that the F2P launch is that PW would want him to stay at least until that is launched. Since he will be gone by F2P launch, it looks much more like he ever wanted out to avoid the trainwreck OR PW wanted him out so that they can start doing things their way sooner.

I have very little faith in PW's ability to put together quality games. I have looked a a good number of what they have and I just don't see anything the quality of STO at the moment. I just think they will have a certain way they are going to do things and that way will not fall within the "vision" that Dan had for the game. My opinion of course and we may never know Dan's take for sure regardless of what is being said right now.

Originally posted by Xondar123

Originally posted by Grand_Nagus

Originally posted by Xondar123

Probably because STO is a trainwreck and has gone through how many producers so far?

Dan is the 2nd. Not that hard to keep up with.

So then whoever takes his place will be the third producer since the game launched. I'm sorry, but no matter how you spin it, that does not bode well for a game at all.

Yep, that math does = 3, your right about that. What you are forgetting though(or simply dont know) is that Cryptic was recently purchased by Perfect World, which is actually a bigger company than Blizzard and is making a huge profit. So while I dont disagree STO has had a troubled past under Atari, its probably in the best shape its ever been now under new ownership. Atari was so far in debt they had to use the majority of the 50 mil PW paid for Cryptic just to pay off debt. PW actually has the resources necessary to full support its games.

Originally posted by Gruug

I have very little faith in PW's ability to put together quality games. 

Oh thats fine, your completely entitled to your opinion. However there are literally millions of people playing their games who disagree with you.

Funny, I'm getting a weird Shatner vibe from that pic. :)