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News & Features Discussion  » Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online: Top Five Wishes for Warhammer 40K

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100 posts found
  chbautist

Novice Member

Joined: 9/20/10
Posts: 51

9/20/11 1:30:50 PM#41

I think the problem with War hammer franchises is that they’re « armies » not heroes to begin with. So as soldiers they are sent as squads on a mission and just do the job, there is no decision making about the greater good made by the soldier, just “on the battlefield” decision making. Also, customization is a moot point for the same reason, soldiers don’t change their uniforms based on personal taste.


 


Now you might argue that Orks may not have that uniform thing going on and just go all out and Waaaaagh! You are right, but players should only play Nobz level character so that PvP balance makes at least “some” sense.


 


Obviously, there can’t be only 2 factions in 40k unless you only have two races (and even then… but lets keep it simple) First, you need the space marines… they’re a must have, I would say that the chaos marines are not essential since space marines fight just as much against Eldars and Oks… But oh well, most chaos units are repaints of space marines so let’s include them. That’s 4 factions already, Forget about Necrons and Tyranids, they have no individual will and consciousness, Tau and Imperial guard could be considered but their basic units just don’t balance with space marines (like the Ork Boyz). So what do we do with them? Those individually less powerful faction or lesser units of factions with “marine strength” units, AI controlled? AI faction used mostly for PVE?  


 


What would a typical battle look like? You insert a number of players into an ongoing battle between basic (weaker) units? Lots of AI programming and total Zerg fest until you hit an opposing player… not sure people would like that. Even if it looks feasible to drop a squad of space marine in a battlefield of Imperial guard vs Orks, on the other side you have your Ork Nobz (players) for balance.


 


What about player character progression, some talk about beginning as scout and levelling to tactical marine and who knows eventually terminators… that won’t work in the end game because there would be no high level scout to play the elite recon and elite sniper. The same would happen with the orks… an army of Warbosses, so much fun. No, Space Marines have careers that last centuries, if you’re a scout when the game launches, you’ll be a scout for as long as the game lasts, and you’ll just get better over time. Eldars… they live even longer, Chaos? Not sure they have any measurable lifespan since they are all “demonized” in some way, they probably can’t die at all, at least not permanently. Once again, the races that could have different progression mechanics would be the short lived ones: Orks, Tau and Imperial guard.


 


For me that is enough reason to make the short lived races non playable, and I’ll get flames for saying Orks should be non playable for lore/mechanics concerns. But face it: every space marine is “elite” so is every chaos marine and so is every Eldar unit THOSE should be our 3 player factions. All others should be AI controlled or PvE enemies.


 


Which brings me to PvE… instanced PvE GW1 style? I mean, as an ELITE soldier, you can’t just roam the countryside looking for crafting materials and killing 10 Snotlings for Lieutenant Weiner… Instanced PVE would make more sense for this type of IP.


 


Just my opinions…

  DrNo172000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/22/10
Posts: 48

9/20/11 1:33:22 PM#42

Originally posted by Razephon

E.g. Maybe I want to play as a Ultramarine or Blood Raven specifically and not a black templar! Black Templars are a relatively unheard of Legion in terms of what gamers who aren't into the lore know.





 


Just to be a bit factual there are no space marine legions anymore.  The Black Templars are a chapter, all legions where disbanded and broken into chapters shortly after the Horus Heresey when Guilliman wrote the Codex Astartes.  The only Legions left are the traitor legions who for obvious reasons did not disband but instead sulked away into the eye of terror.  As far as the Templars not being well known, well anyone who plays table top should know them as they have their own codex.  One thing I will mention is that if they stay true to the lore and Black Templars are the only playable chapter, then there should not be a option to make a librarian.


 


On to the list.


5.  Easy enough, make them a traitor legion and not one of the new traitors (i.e. Red Corsairs),  they would have shittier tech (it being 10,000 years old) such as combi bolters instead of storm bolters, but access to special veteran skills (after all if after 10,000 yrs your not a vet when would you be one.)  That's just the tip of the iceberg, that's not even getting into worshiping a specific God and getting abilities for that or going undivided.  You could do a lot to make them diff.


4. You would simply have to break the lore and probably keep only certain races playable (not sure how you'd play a Nid in a roleplaying game anyway).  As a long time fan I'd have no problem with breaking the  lore as the tabletop already does so to a point for balance sake.  Read any books and you soon realize that Space Marines are very over-top ridiculous.


3.  Eh I could go either way with this, not a gamebreaker for me.  One thing I would like to see is "paths" which you mentioned briefly, for instance I'm a neophyte (Black Templars don't have scouts for those that don't know), when I become a Initiate (Full Marine) I must choose whether I want to become a tactical Marine, Devastator, or Assualt.  Then maybe later down the road when I become a veteran you could get a advanced path, such Chaplain, Sergeant, or Terminator Honours.  This could unlock unique skills that deal directly with your path.  I wouldn't want to open a system as it would go against lore especially on the Marine side of things.


2.  I don't think multiple chapters will be in at launch no matter our wishes, one thing you could have is lots of fluff type clothing pieces.  Like Oath Scrolls, Orky bitz, skulls and other race specific things you could attach to your character to make him look more unique.  I would like to see this sort of thing having to be earned, in that way you could recognize a veteran warrior when you saw one. 


1.  I'm pretty sure they already mentioned Vehicles being a big part in the game.  As far as constructing them, well I def think that needs to be handled differently per race.  Space Marines don't construct their own stuff (heck some don't even maintain their own gear they have servitors and chapter serfs do it for them), the Mechanicum does it for them.  Orks loot stuff and "make it orky" and so on and so forth.  I agree with salvaging things, all the races as far as I know do this in some form or the other (hell space marines will go at great lengths just to recover a lost Terminator Honour Badge as it contains a piece of the Emperors power armour). 


P.S. For all those wanting more than two factions, I don't think its going to happen.  Two factions is Absolutely backed by Games Workshop, the words Order and Destruction can be found in the tabletop rule book.  And one only has to look at the global tabletop campaigns to see that GW themselves organizes their armies in this way.  Against the lore yes, annoying yes, just doubt it will change so just brace yourselves. 


  Coman

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/29/04
Posts: 1952

9/20/11 1:44:01 PM#43

I prefer the factions feel like themselves. This could be done by making use of a squad system. Instead of just controlling one character you instead would control 4-5 imperial guards (you are a leader The rest of the gaurd would be a AI) or the Xenos listen to a mini-hyve mind (you) or your an group of orcs. This would still mean a player who played orc could win again a single space marines, but you would still have the feeling as a space marine you fight the horde and as a orc you feel of being part of a horde.




Problem might be trough that it would take a lot for an MMO to have such features.




Originally posted by garrett

I guess this sentence wasn't enough for you....




"The best part of Warhammer is the idea of the different races all at war. Even though no MMO can host 9-10 warring factions, it would be great to see the races broken out into more than just two sides to fight it out."





 


Would not mind them trying it trough. I think it might be possible if the map is big enough and clearly enough people play the game.



  DrNo172000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/22/10
Posts: 48

9/20/11 1:49:14 PM#44



Originally posted by Coman



I prefer the factions feel like themselves. This could be done by making use of a squad system. Instead of just controlling one character you instead would control 4-5 imperial guards (you are a leader The rest of the gaurd would be a AI) or the Xenos listen to a mini-hyve mind (you) or your an group of orcs. This would still mean a player who played orc could win again a single space marines, but you would still have the feeling as a space marine you fight the horde and as a orc you feel of being part of a horde.








Problem might be trough that it would take a lot for an MMO to have such features.











 


I like this idea





 

  Lateris

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/05
Posts: 1799

~perspective~

9/20/11 1:50:37 PM#45
Originally posted by Montaronx
Amen to this list brother, now lets hope all of em will be implemented and this is a game that can for once hold the reputation for warhammer. Every other game on this IP sucked sofar

I really like Space Marine. 

  Pilnkplonk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/10
Posts: 1566

9/20/11 2:26:32 PM#46
Originally posted by DrNo172000

P.S. For all those wanting more than two factions, I don't think its going to happen.  Two factions is Absolutely backed by Games Workshop, the words Order and Destruction can be found in the tabletop rule book.  And one only has to look at the global tabletop campaigns to see that GW themselves organizes their armies in this way.  Against the lore yes, annoying yes, just doubt it will change so just brace yourselves. 

Well there it goes. The cat's out of the bag. It was actually GW who pushed the disastrous 2-faction decision onto WAR. It always smelled fishy to me that Mythic would forego the 3-faction RvR thing which they actually pioneered to great success. I had a hunch it was the GW borg from the beginning...

Let's face it folks. GW today is not what it was in the 80s or even in the 90s. They're a dying crap franchise that preys on sentimentality and kids. Just like George Lucas. Rest in peace GW while I leaf through my 80's copies of White Dwarf and today's FF games WH40K roleplay books...

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10633

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

9/20/11 2:49:35 PM#47


Originally posted by Pilnkplonk


Originally posted by DrNo172000

P.S. For all those wanting more than two factions, I don't think its going to happen.  Two factions is Absolutely backed by Games Workshop, the words Order and Destruction can be found in the tabletop rule book.  And one only has to look at the global tabletop campaigns to see that GW themselves organizes their armies in this way.  Against the lore yes, annoying yes, just doubt it will change so just brace yourselves. 


Well there it goes. The cat's out of the bag. It was actually GW who pushed the disastrous 2-faction decision onto WAR. It always smelled fishy to me that Mythic would forego the 3-faction RvR thing which they actually pioneered to great success. I had a hunch it was the GW borg from the beginning...
Let's face it folks. GW today is not what it was in the 80s or even in the 90s. They're a dying crap franchise that preys on sentimentality and kids. Just like George Lucas. Rest in peace GW while I leaf through my 80's copies of White Dwarf and today's FF games WH40K roleplay books...



If there are 10,000 people who are familiar with the Warhammer franchise and who will be upset that they aren't following the game's history 100%, but there are 100,000 or 1,000,000 people who aren't really familiar with the franchise, but who will buy the game because it uses some mechanics that are familiar, guess which direction they're going to take?

Your choices might be 0 games, or some games that don't fit your definition of what a Warhammer game should be. Sometimes you have to look at a game for what it is.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Pilnkplonk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/10
Posts: 1566

9/20/11 3:07:12 PM#48
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Pilnkplonk


Originally posted by DrNo172000

P.S. For all those wanting more than two factions, I don't think its going to happen.  Two factions is Absolutely backed by Games Workshop, the words Order and Destruction can be found in the tabletop rule book.  And one only has to look at the global tabletop campaigns to see that GW themselves organizes their armies in this way.  Against the lore yes, annoying yes, just doubt it will change so just brace yourselves. 



Well there it goes. The cat's out of the bag. It was actually GW who pushed the disastrous 2-faction decision onto WAR. It always smelled fishy to me that Mythic would forego the 3-faction RvR thing which they actually pioneered to great success. I had a hunch it was the GW borg from the beginning...
Let's face it folks. GW today is not what it was in the 80s or even in the 90s. They're a dying crap franchise that preys on sentimentality and kids. Just like George Lucas. Rest in peace GW while I leaf through my 80's copies of White Dwarf and today's FF games WH40K roleplay books...




If there are 10,000 people who are familiar with the Warhammer franchise and who will be upset that they aren't following the game's history 100%, but there are 100,000 or 1,000,000 people who aren't really familiar with the franchise, but who will buy the game because it uses some mechanics that are familiar, guess which direction they're going to take?

Your choices might be 0 games, or some games that don't fit your definition of what a Warhammer game should be. Sometimes you have to look at a game for what it is.

 

Well, yeah. Even if I know that it's there, I still don't have to look at it, now don't I?

Some things are best ignored I'd say. As far as I'm concerned, there are only 3 Star Wars movies and Richard Matheson's "I am Legend" was never adapted for the screen. (Gad, I still have nightmares about that one.)

Imo they can shove their good vs evil thing (sorry "order" vs "chaos") in the very same place the US army base at the end of "I am Legend" movie resides.

  DrNo172000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/22/10
Posts: 48

9/20/11 3:39:30 PM#49

Honestly what I would like to see is no factions at all.  If I could have my way, which I can't I know, but if I could it would go like this.  Every race would be able to pvp or group only with certain other races.  For example  Space Marines can pvp all non imperials, but can still group with say Eldar or Tau (since they have been known to work together).  Orks could pvp everyone including themselves, and group with anyone that would be able to group with them (they just want to go were da fightin iz).  You could do this for every race. 


Now to give something meaningful so that we do group or not group with other races (xeno filth).  Instead of battlefields they could have objectives, for example a manfactorum, controlling it could give a specific advantage.  Taking it solo would give the most benefit for your race or faction but grouping with xeno filth while making it easier to take would give a similiar but lesser advantage to both groups.


  Jorvias

Novice Member

Joined: 10/28/10
Posts: 13

9/20/11 3:45:17 PM#50

I don't mind having only 2 factions as Orks will happily fight anyone and Eldar could fight for either side, depending on their agendas at the time.


I also don't mind focusing on the Black Templar, since they're my favorite chapter. However, I can see how that would be annoying to lovers of other Space Marine chapters. Perhaps if the whole game is set on a planet or system where a crusade is underway!


I would like to see the same graphics, art, and system as Space Marine, which was great. There definitely needs to be a vehicle system, however, so that is my #1 choice from this list.


-Jorvias


Stormlord Jorvias
Fryer of Conductive Foes

  Tivian

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 176

That which does not kill us, makes us stronger!!!

9/20/11 5:35:20 PM#51

I dissagree with #3. Leveling is half the fun of the game! so you just want to do the same old same old PvP or raids?


  Tivian

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 176

That which does not kill us, makes us stronger!!!

9/20/11 5:40:40 PM#52

You can't have Space Wolves in this game because they already said every space marine is Black Templar. You can't have guilds...but you can have "Company" size units. Your list is crap


  Dnomsed

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 261

"I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious." -Albert Einstein

9/20/11 6:41:57 PM#53

What's most interesting about this thread is the passion the fans have for their favorite elements of the I.P.  Vigil would be well served to embrace (or at least recognize) that as development continues.

Warhammer fanatic since '85.

  Romse

Novice Member

Joined: 2/12/06
Posts: 202

9/20/11 9:04:50 PM#54

Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

3 or more factions




without that the rest doesn't matter one bit





 


This.


I know the author put this in number 4 and not even as a whole point...


It is the main point. I won't be leaving SWTOR for a crappy 2 sidded faction war MMO of lesser quality.


If 40k does not offer 1 faction per playable race for a minimum of 3 factions than what the heck does it offer that SWTOR won't have?


Nevermind the fact that they'd be defacing the IP by throwing in races in the same factions.


  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10633

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

9/20/11 9:28:07 PM#55


Originally posted by Pilnkplonk


Originally posted by lizardbones
 



Originally posted by Pilnkplonk




Originally posted by DrNo172000

P.S. For all those wanting more than two factions, I don't think its going to happen.  Two factions is Absolutely backed by Games Workshop, the words Order and Destruction can be found in the tabletop rule book.  And one only has to look at the global tabletop campaigns to see that GW themselves organizes their armies in this way.  Against the lore yes, annoying yes, just doubt it will change so just brace yourselves. 




Well there it goes. The cat's out of the bag. It was actually GW who pushed the disastrous 2-faction decision onto WAR. It always smelled fishy to me that Mythic would forego the 3-faction RvR thing which they actually pioneered to great success. I had a hunch it was the GW borg from the beginning...
Let's face it folks. GW today is not what it was in the 80s or even in the 90s. They're a dying crap franchise that preys on sentimentality and kids. Just like George Lucas. Rest in peace GW while I leaf through my 80's copies of White Dwarf and today's FF games WH40K roleplay books...





If there are 10,000 people who are familiar with the Warhammer franchise and who will be upset that they aren't following the game's history 100%, but there are 100,000 or 1,000,000 people who aren't really familiar with the franchise, but who will buy the game because it uses some mechanics that are familiar, guess which direction they're going to take?

Your choices might be 0 games, or some games that don't fit your definition of what a Warhammer game should be. Sometimes you have to look at a game for what it is.

 


Well, yeah. Even if I know that it's there, I still don't have to look at it, now don't I?
Some things are best ignored I'd say. As far as I'm concerned, there are only 3 Star Wars movies and Richard Matheson's "I am Legend" was never adapted for the screen. (Gad, I still have nightmares about that one.)
Imo they can shove their good vs evil thing (sorry "order" vs "chaos") in the very same place the US army base at the end of "I am Legend" movie resides.



I talked my grandmother into taking me to see Star Wars 23 times. I had the soundtrack on an 8 track tape. I don't think SW:ToR is going to be anything at all like what I think Star Wars should be like. That doesn't mean it can't be a good game in its own right...it's just not going to be my vision of the game.

I realize that there is what the game is, and then what I think it should be. It works a lot better to see the game for what it is and evaluate it on those terms. Wishing for or asking for a third criminal faction (even five years ago) wouldn't get it into the game. At least for me it's a lot less frustrating that way.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  grawss

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/11
Posts: 438

9/20/11 11:12:29 PM#56
Originally posted by lizardbones

 

I talked my grandmother into taking me to see Star Wars 23 times. I had the soundtrack on an 8 track tape. I don't think SW:ToR is going to be anything at all like what I think Star Wars should be like. That doesn't mean it can't be a good game in its own right...it's just not going to be my vision of the game.

I realize that there is what the game is, and then what I think it should be. It works a lot better to see the game for what it is and evaluate it on those terms. Wishing for or asking for a third criminal faction (even five years ago) wouldn't get it into the game. At least for me it's a lot less frustrating that way.

 

Star Wars: The Old Republic is also set an enormous amount of time in the past to avoid giving the lore a good throat punch.

 

People aren't just angry because they think having more than two factions would be cool-beans in a W40k MMO. Nah, they're angry because the developers are going against the IP for absolutely no good reason. If it was necessary for the game to succeed to have only two factions, people wouldn't be so enraged. What would TOR be without Jedi? Nothing. That's all Star Wars is about. There is a very good reason to have a ton of Jedi running around, which bends the lore in the case of an MMO set in the same time period as the movies.

From the vantage point of the fans, it looks as though Vigil is raping the IP just because they think it'll make them more money. And considering their implication that it'll be close to WoW, if not a full-on clone, I don't blame them.

Another consideration is that people are just tired of two faction games, and this IP makes for the absolute perfect stage to build an MMO with more.

 

People will generally accept lore bending as long as there is a good reason for it and there isn't an easy alternative. This is not one of those cases. :/

Sarcasm is not a crime!

  Gyrus

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/07
Posts: 2323

9/20/11 11:18:41 PM#57
Originally posted by Pilnkplonk
Originally posted by DrNo172000

P.S. For all those wanting more than two factions, I don't think its going to happen.  Two factions is Absolutely backed by Games Workshop, the words Order and Destruction can be found in the tabletop rule book.  And one only has to look at the global tabletop campaigns to see that GW themselves organizes their armies in this way.  Against the lore yes, annoying yes, just doubt it will change so just brace yourselves. 

Well there it goes. The cat's out of the bag. It was actually GW who pushed the disastrous 2-faction decision onto WAR. It always smelled fishy to me that Mythic would forego the 3-faction RvR thing which they actually pioneered to great success. I had a hunch it was the GW borg from the beginning...

Let's face it folks. GW today is not what it was in the 80s or even in the 90s. They're a dying crap franchise that preys on sentimentality and kids. Just like George Lucas. Rest in peace GW while I leaf through my 80's copies of White Dwarf and today's FF games WH40K roleplay books...

Actually, GW was never that good...

If you look at their games, their rules and their lore they make a ton of mistakes.

GW always struck me as a bunch of guys who like gaming and can think up some cool stuff - but are really just making stuff up as they went along.

The stuff they do often lacks foresight and they paint themselves into corners.  They also seemed to lack an understanding of probability - it seemed to me like they would make up rules - monte carlo test them a little then release them... then realise they had made a mistake and try to fix them?  I might be wrong - but that was the impression I got.

I still have the original White Dwarf where they announced the WH40K "Rogue Trader" and even when I read that back then, I spotted things that were 'wrong'.  From that very first article they started limiting themselves.

See here - I love the description!  LOL http://index.rpg.net/display-entry.phtml?articleid=8265

 

Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  tank017

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/06
Posts: 2206

9/20/11 11:27:46 PM#58

Thumbs up to all 5..that would make one helluva 40k mmo.


  ZoeMcCloskey

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/14/05
Posts: 1126

INTJ, fun is fun except when it's not

9/20/11 11:52:32 PM#59

#1 needs to be 3 or more factions, otherwise an ok list :/


  Inktomi

Highlighted Blogger

Joined: 3/25/09
Posts: 664

Give me sparkly, twinkly...

9/21/11 12:31:38 AM#60

Hey, whats going on in this thread? Am I late?

I do like the original 5 and agree with every single one of them, but I would make some adjustments as a retired WH40K TT player and a veteran MMO player.

5) As an MMO player: I want to start the game Faction-less.

Yes, I don't want to immediately walk into the game with bioengineered superhuman with  implants or the ability to cast chaos magic off the bat. Really... start me off as a noob and then give me a tutorial that will able to sense by my actions and decisions which path I'm most suited to take and then let me make the final decision. The ability to play as any class from the start would take a huge chunk of personal lore developement out of the game for me. I don't want to be spoon fed my characters background, I want to create it myself.

4) As a WH40K player: Vehicles and vehicle customization.

If you are going to do vehicles then do all of them and do it with the option to build it the way I want to. Maybe I want a possesed predator with dual lascannons but a melta gun in the front. Give me the bonuses and the drawbacks of having to drive and take care of that tank too. What book was it...oh Storm of Iron, where the tank and vehicles had to be chained up because the demons possessing them were unstable. Maybe also the option to own and fly ships for interstellar travel? Thats whats up! 

3) MMO player: Blur the faction lines and give the good players a chance to commit evil acts and cross over.

Because thats where the original CSM came from. Like the Going Rogue feature in City of X.  How about an Inquisitor that practices chaos magic (Radical) rather than a puritan. By giving a player differnt option of what end of the Ordos they fall into will be better than just aesthetic changes, giving an Inquisitor an option between Ordo Heriticus, Malleus or Xenos that gives the character bonuses vs that particular type of enemy. Creating these different types of avenues in character development will open many more types of customizations and class distinctions rather than just changing the color of my armor or how many ribbons I wore. 

There were assassins, but there was also 5 different types of assassins you could use. Don't pidgeonhole me out of developer laziness, this is a huge IP they bought, use every stitch of it.

2) MMO player: Hmm...on leveling, I'm going out of the box here to prove a point.

One of the things I did like about Mortal Online was the limited amount of skill points that a character had ( it was the only thing I liked about MO btw). This connects directly with the rest of my list because when a player is given an unlimited amount of skillpoints this creates a mass of characters with cookie cutter builds along the lines. If someone wants to be an Ork Choppa, they will have a certain amount of points to use in specialization, to make the best dang choppa they can make...or...make the best dang lasrifle crafter they can make. See what I did there?

This does open the doors for the flavor of the month build metagame and the min/maxers love it, but I don't want to be like every other ork in the room. The downside is, you will need to find a diversity of classes to round out your pve party/pvp group; if everyone plays the same build it will create a leverage against them. In the TT version, if your army didn't have wide area blast damage going against a tyranid or ork zerg, you were done. That was one of the first hard lessons I learned while playing WH40K.

1) Both: Two words here - Sand Box.

'Nuff said.

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