Originally posted by stragen001

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by stragen001

I seriously doubt that the terms of that agreement are legal. 

In the UK it would fall foul of a little thing called consumer protection rights, and unfair terms in consumer contracts laws.  

 

and yet in the UK if I don't click on 'agree' on NCSoft's EULA (on a product I have already paid for mind), all I am offered is the option to cancel.

Not even a refund.

And this from a company based in Brighton.

But i dont think (i dont know as i havent read it) that NCSofts EULA has any illegal terms in it

Some would argue that refusing access to a service after purchase based on not accepting the EULA offered, when those terms were not stated clearly on the box prior to purchase, is actually pretty 'illegal'.

Originally posted by SlyLoK

AT&T has something similar that disallows their customers to take part in a class action lawuit and get this... the courts actually let it fly.

Yeah, I think AT&T is the company that pushed for this law to be implemented in the first place. Which means that AT&T and Sony are not the only companies that'll do this. Yay!

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by stragen001

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by stragen001

I seriously doubt that the terms of that agreement are legal. 

In the UK it would fall foul of a little thing called consumer protection rights, and unfair terms in consumer contracts laws.  

 

and yet in the UK if I don't click on 'agree' on NCSoft's EULA (on a product I have already paid for mind), all I am offered is the option to cancel.

Not even a refund.

And this from a company based in Brighton.

But i dont think (i dont know as i havent read it) that NCSofts EULA has any illegal terms in it

 

Some would argue that refusing access to a service after purchase based on not accepting the EULA offered, when those terms were not stated clearly on the box prior to purchase, is actually pretty 'illegal'.

Good point. 

Goes back the microsoft shrink wrap EULA lawsuits. To read the EULA you have to open the shrink wrap. Opening the shrinkwrap is acceptance of the EULA......

What kind of backwards deal is this?

Moushiwake arimasen deshita.  We leaked your personal info because our security wasn't up to par on our network.  Oh, and btw, if you don't sign this you'll be banned.  Yeah, that's the way to handle people who pay your check, NOT!.

BTW purchase does not guarantee full use.  They can not deny you use of the product, unless of course, your product is an online only content contract.  In the case of online only content, most countries and companies have rules and laws concerning early termination and buyers remorse.  But, back to the denying rights of use, if the content is solo + online, they can deny you use of the network if you refuse to accept the EULA.  International law stipulates that while the consumer has the right to purchase and use products, companies also have the right to do business with whomever they please.  There are ramifications to this, such as discrimination charges, etc., but a company can chose not to do business with whomever they like, regardless of whether it's racially, politically, or ethnically discriminating.

Originally posted by stragen001

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by stragen001

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by stragen001

I seriously doubt that the terms of that agreement are legal. 

In the UK it would fall foul of a little thing called consumer protection rights, and unfair terms in consumer contracts laws.  

 

and yet in the UK if I don't click on 'agree' on NCSoft's EULA (on a product I have already paid for mind), all I am offered is the option to cancel.

Not even a refund.

And this from a company based in Brighton.

But i dont think (i dont know as i havent read it) that NCSofts EULA has any illegal terms in it

 

Some would argue that refusing access to a service after purchase based on not accepting the EULA offered, when those terms were not stated clearly on the box prior to purchase, is actually pretty 'illegal'.

Good point. 

Goes back the microsoft shrink wrap EULA lawsuits. To read the EULA you have to open the shrink wrap. Opening the shrinkwrap is acceptance of the EULA......

yes indeed :)

Can't say i'm not suprised, since when has sony been a caring give a shit company.. What sucks though is that its hard to boycott sony when they have exclusive games that you wanna play.

Originally posted by Aori

Can't say i'm not suprised, since when has sony been a caring give a shit company.. What sucks though is that its hard to boycott sony when they have exclusive games that you wanna play.

... okay.. not that i advocate boycotting without adequate justification, although, they're definitely making the attempt.. but what games do they do that are even all that popular that it would be an issue even.. most of their games are more than a little long in the tooth, and their 'newer' games are lacking in popularity..  even DCUO is struggling to maintain a population, and failing, given the 'supermerger' they just did with the servers. SOE desperately needs that 'killer app' kind of thing that they had when EQ was in its infancy..  perhaps their hoping that Planetside 2 will do what DCUO failed to achieve... but i think its a long shot either way.

Boycott Sony... why bother.. honestly?

Originally posted by xBludx

What do you think of this and how it would affect your decision to play an mmorpg (or other game) on a ps3?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14948701

 

It wouldn't affect my decision at all. I'm not a lawsuit freak and would most likely only file a lawsuit that can easily be done on my own due to the gravity of their actions.

Sony getting hacked is not one of those actions. I wouldn't file a lawsuite against a bank if it would be robbed either (assuming they aren't insured and i would lose some of my deposits due to it).  Filing a lawsuite against the victim of a crime seems really silly.

This is not legal in the netherlands... Its not allowed to change anything in terms and agreements whenever people have bought a product... Unless they offer to buy back all units from people that cant agree to the changed terms and agreements...  (in dutch court this would also mean that they have to pay any costs like games that the user bought and which become obsolete because he can no longer play them on his PS3)

Next to that i think the whole new terms on itselves are illegal in the Netherlands....  they just don't fit in with customer rights and comapnies obligations for customer service.

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by Aori

Can't say i'm not suprised, since when has sony been a caring give a shit company.. What sucks though is that its hard to boycott sony when they have exclusive games that you wanna play.

... okay.. not that i advocate boycotting without adequate justification, although, they're definitely making the attempt.. but what games do they do that are even all that popular that it would be an issue even.. most of their games are more than a little long in the tooth, and their 'newer' games are lacking in popularity..  even DCUO is struggling to maintain a population, and failing, given the 'supermerger' they just did with the servers. SOE desperately needs that 'killer app' kind of thing that they had when EQ was in its infancy..  perhaps their hoping that Planetside 2 will do what DCUO failed to achieve... but i think its a long shot either way.

Boycott Sony... why bother.. honestly?

Uh SOE =/= Sony.

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by Aori

Can't say i'm not suprised, since when has sony been a caring give a shit company.. What sucks though is that its hard to boycott sony when they have exclusive games that you wanna play.

... okay.. not that i advocate boycotting without adequate justification, although, they're definitely making the attempt.. but what games do they do that are even all that popular that it would be an issue even.. most of their games are more than a little long in the tooth, and their 'newer' games are lacking in popularity..  even DCUO is struggling to maintain a population, and failing, given the 'supermerger' they just did with the servers. SOE desperately needs that 'killer app' kind of thing that they had when EQ was in its infancy..  perhaps their hoping that Planetside 2 will do what DCUO failed to achieve... but i think its a long shot either way.

Boycott Sony... why bother.. honestly?

Errmmm,  what rock did you crawl out from under.  Sony is the biggest Game Platform on the market.  Their competitors are Nintendo, Microsoft Xbox, and a very very small percentage in the PC industry.  They are multimarket as well, not only selling gaming platforms but electronics(e.g. Sony portable music devices, Sony mobile telephones, Sony T.V.'s, Sony Computers, etc.),

and they have their own motion picture/music production department.  Almost everything that has to do with entertainment, they have their hands into.

Originally posted by Aramath

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by Aori

Can't say i'm not suprised, since when has sony been a caring give a shit company.. What sucks though is that its hard to boycott sony when they have exclusive games that you wanna play.

... okay.. not that i advocate boycotting without adequate justification, although, they're definitely making the attempt.. but what games do they do that are even all that popular that it would be an issue even.. most of their games are more than a little long in the tooth, and their 'newer' games are lacking in popularity..  even DCUO is struggling to maintain a population, and failing, given the 'supermerger' they just did with the servers. SOE desperately needs that 'killer app' kind of thing that they had when EQ was in its infancy..  perhaps their hoping that Planetside 2 will do what DCUO failed to achieve... but i think its a long shot either way.

Boycott Sony... why bother.. honestly?

Errmmm,  what rock did you crawl out from under.  Sony is the biggest Game Platform on the market.  Their competitors are Nintendo, Microsoft Xbox, and a very very small percentage in the PC industry.  They are multimarket as well, not only selling gaming platforms but electronics(e.g. Sony portable music devices, Sony mobile telephones, Sony T.V.'s, Sony Computers, etc.),

and they have their own motion picture/music production department.  Almost everything that has to do with entertainment, they have their hands into.

i think market share, when it comes to consoles is something like this;

Nintendo Wii - Xbox 360 - PS3..  though last time i checked, the Nintendo Wii had more users than both the combined Xbox and PS3 consoles,  though just to show that Nintendo can screw up too, the 3D handset they tried to flog.. bombed..  and on the PC you are correct in saying that Sony does indeed have a miniscule market share, kind of an own goal there though...  as for the rest, its not like their doing all that well as the company has been losing money steadily, and that was even after having had to restructure their debts a year or so ago... Sony, in the entertainment business isnt as big of a player as they used to be.. and its their own fault, although, i have to say, in the music industry, their no better or worse than some of the others, they just failed to move with the times and adapt to modern technology, which is why Apple is making hay at Sony's expense.

like i said.. why even bother boycotting Sony...

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by Aramath

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by Aori

Can't say i'm not suprised, since when has sony been a caring give a shit company.. What sucks though is that its hard to boycott sony when they have exclusive games that you wanna play.

... okay.. not that i advocate boycotting without adequate justification, although, they're definitely making the attempt.. but what games do they do that are even all that popular that it would be an issue even.. most of their games are more than a little long in the tooth, and their 'newer' games are lacking in popularity..  even DCUO is struggling to maintain a population, and failing, given the 'supermerger' they just did with the servers. SOE desperately needs that 'killer app' kind of thing that they had when EQ was in its infancy..  perhaps their hoping that Planetside 2 will do what DCUO failed to achieve... but i think its a long shot either way.

Boycott Sony... why bother.. honestly?

Errmmm,  what rock did you crawl out from under.  Sony is the biggest Game Platform on the market.  Their competitors are Nintendo, Microsoft Xbox, and a very very small percentage in the PC industry.  They are multimarket as well, not only selling gaming platforms but electronics(e.g. Sony portable music devices, Sony mobile telephones, Sony T.V.'s, Sony Computers, etc.),

and they have their own motion picture/music production department.  Almost everything that has to do with entertainment, they have their hands into.

i think market share, when it comes to consoles is something like this;

Nintendo Wii - Xbox 360 - PS3..  though last time i checked, the Nintendo Wii had more users than both the combined Xbox and PS3 consoles,  though just to show that Nintendo can screw up too, the 3D handset they tried to flog.. bombed..  and on the PC you are correct in saying that Sony does indeed have a miniscule market share, kind of an own goal there though...  as for the rest, its not like their doing all that well as the company has been losing money steadily, and that was even after having had to restructure their debts a year or so ago... Sony, in the entertainment business isnt as big of a player as they used to be.. and its their own fault, although, i have to say, in the music industry, their no better or worse than some of the others, they just failed to move with the times and adapt to modern technology, which is why Apple is making hay at Sony's expense.

like i said.. why even bother boycotting Sony...

Marketshare based rankings goes Microsoft, Sony, and way way back Nintendo, but this is because, as I was stating, Sony is more than an online entity.  They are multimarket while nintendo is gaming platform only.  The only way you can get off of one of their gaming platforms is to download or purchase an emulator and play it on a PC.  BTW, based on marketshare, Microsoft is number 1, Sony is number 2, nintendo doesn't even make it into the top 10.  The only reason Nintendo continues to be compared to the other two is because their company has been around since the 1889 and therefore has a gross value that absolutely eclipses the other two who have only been around for a relatively short period of time.  (Sony since 1955 and Microsoft since 1975)

Originally posted by generals3

Originally posted by xBludx

What do you think of this and how it would affect your decision to play an mmorpg (or other game) on a ps3?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14948701

 

It wouldn't affect my decision at all. I'm not a lawsuit freak and would most likely only file a lawsuit that can easily be done on my own due to the gravity of their actions.

Sony getting hacked is not one of those actions. I wouldn't file a lawsuite against a bank if it would be robbed either (assuming they aren't insured and i would lose some of my deposits due to it).  Filing a lawsuite against the victim of a crime seems really silly.

lol so if some one stole your Id and your car and house. :) you would not file lawsuit. So you just let some one rob you blindly outside and no do nothing way to go bro :).

Originally posted by shinobi234

Originally posted by generals3

Originally posted by xBludx

What do you think of this and how it would affect your decision to play an mmorpg (or other game) on a ps3?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14948701

 

It wouldn't affect my decision at all. I'm not a lawsuit freak and would most likely only file a lawsuit that can easily be done on my own due to the gravity of their actions.

Sony getting hacked is not one of those actions. I wouldn't file a lawsuite against a bank if it would be robbed either (assuming they aren't insured and i would lose some of my deposits due to it).  Filing a lawsuite against the victim of a crime seems really silly.

lol so if some one stole your Id and your car and house. :) you would not file lawsuit. So you just let some one rob you blindly outside and no do nothing way to go bro :).

If i knew who hacked sony i'd sue them. Sony stole nothing, they got hacked and info was stolen from them. As far as i know you willingly gave them your info, that's not stealing, the thieves are the hackers. So my point still stands, filing a lawsuit against the victim of a crime is silly.

Originally posted by generals3

Originally posted by shinobi234

Originally posted by generals3

Originally posted by xBludx

What do you think of this and how it would affect your decision to play an mmorpg (or other game) on a ps3?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14948701

 

It wouldn't affect my decision at all. I'm not a lawsuit freak and would most likely only file a lawsuit that can easily be done on my own due to the gravity of their actions.

Sony getting hacked is not one of those actions. I wouldn't file a lawsuite against a bank if it would be robbed either (assuming they aren't insured and i would lose some of my deposits due to it).  Filing a lawsuite against the victim of a crime seems really silly.

lol so if some one stole your Id and your car and house. :) you would not file lawsuit. So you just let some one rob you blindly outside and no do nothing way to go bro :).

If i knew who hacked sony i'd sue them. Sony stole nothing, they got hacked and info was stolen from them. As far as i know you willingly gave them your info, that's not stealing, the thieves are the hackers. So my point still stands, filing a lawsuit against the victim of a crime is silly.

While I do agree that Sony is a victim here, they make more than enough money to employ people who could adequately secure their network.  Yes you volunteered your information so that they could provide a network identity for you, however, they have have a responsibility to protect that online identity.  This isn't the first major firm to be hacked nor will it be the last until they come up with a way to keep your personal information seperate from the identity that the rest of the world see's on their network.  BTW, in the article, the group that claims responsibility is Lulz Security.

Concerning Lulz Security, while I applaud their ability to find and crack sites that have security issues, their method of exposing is criminal.  In the U.S.  they would be charged with the crime of hacking the systems and breach of the computer privacy act of 1987.  Yes, we need to know about these things but have a care when you are posting information publically concerning peoples online identity.  There are much better ways to handle it.

Originally posted by Kaerigan

Hopefully these kinds of laws don't make it to Europe, but I fear it's only a matter of time. USA should just rename itself to UCA, United Corporations of America 

THIS!!! THIS!!! 100000X THIS!

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Originally posted by Kaerigan

Hopefully these kinds of laws don't make it to Europe, but I fear it's only a matter of time. USA should just rename itself to UCA, United Corporations of America 

THIS!!! THIS!!! 100000X THIS!

Funny, but Sony is not an US based firm.  They have a branch here, just like they have one in Canada and the UK and several other places around the world, but their HQ is and always will be in Japan.

Originally posted by Kaerigan

Hopefully these kinds of laws don't make it to Europe, but I fear it's only a matter of time. USA should just rename itself to UCA, United Corporations of America 

Oh WAAAAH, the big bad evil corporation.

Someone has to lead the sheep around -- they certainly aren't capable of doing it themselves.

I initally defended Sony to a degree. Blaming the hackers and stating that it could happen to any corporation. I still agree to some extent but wish to apologize to any other forum posters  with which I debated. Arbitration agreements are bullshit and any company who uses them are pieces of shit. It's the same tactics  organizations like Blackwater use on their employees to absolve themselves of any responsibility....not to mention arbitrations used in insurance and credit card contracts...bullshit. .Fuck  SONY and I hope their console market crashes. Fuckers!