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News & Features Discussion  » General: Guild Sores: Crafting Sucks!

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57 posts found
  taus01

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 1419

9/17/11 10:09:20 AM#41
Originally posted by Terranah

Probably my favorite crafting in an mmo was precu SWG.

 

 For instance, there was the searcing aspect that sometimes I did by myself, but other times was with a friend of mine.  Sometimes I stumbled on good resources, or someone asked me to collect a particular resource for money.  I liked that the resources had different properties, and you could make stuff with optional items and sometimes you got experimental points to make stuff better in different ways.

 ...

SWG had the best resource system ever created. It was resource PvP, who gets his harvesters down on the exceptional quality resource the fastest! If you can find it in the first place :)

Some of those resources where unique on the server, they never spawned in that particular quality ever again. There where top resources on every server that where so rare that they fetched insane prices and only got used for very special crafts.

For me, this was the best crafting system conceived so far. Good times!

 

"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

  DiEx80

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/10
Posts: 31

9/17/11 2:32:46 PM#42

Here is my issue with crafting in most MMOs:


Whenever I make something, it lacks a personal touch. I'd like to see more to it than just "Made by DiEx-80" or something. In a game like WoW or UO, if I build something great, it looks just like the rest of the "great" stuff out there. It only says my name and that is it. It looks no better than the countless other items out on the servers.


Now one of the better crafting systems I seen was in Ultima Online. There was different resources and different recipies. However the recipies could use different resources and would gain different properties if you did. So, I could make a sword using iron and it would have a X properties, but if I used a different metal it would have Y properties. Add to that there wasn't resource nodes. You could mine anywhere and everywhere there was rock. There isn't a rock that gave 1 ore per node: You could get 5 or 8 per swing and just go over a few squares to get another 5-8.


A lot of newer MMOs wrecked crafting with this "Go to a node, get a couple ores, wait for it to respawn" stuff. Also the whole "You can only make this thing with this ore. No substituions." didn't help. Still, I rather enjoy crafting and would like to see some more personalization to it. Also, I'd like to see the return of crafted stuff be a little better than enemy drops.


  Shadanwolf

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1896

9/17/11 5:58:05 PM#43

OP

 

 

I couldn't  disagree with you post more.I have never played a game for any extended periond of time that didn't have GREAT crafting. Thankfully GW2...SWTOR ....Prime.....devs agree with my likes and not yours

  Vaundain

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/09
Posts: 12

9/17/11 6:06:14 PM#44

Personally, I've hated crafting since EQ I quit over it. Spend HOURS of gameplay and 1000's of platinum to lvl 2 points, very frustrating!
WOW is too easy and redundant, yawn, granted the payoff was quicker, but not that gratifying!
I really haven't tested many other mmo's as I've lost interest too quickly or haven't the funds for pay games.

I do like the idea of making crafting worth the effort though. If you spend so much effort to gather and craft items they should rival anything that can be dropped.

As opposed to one comment I think a game can be balanced enough for all players. I really think developers should pay more attention to these posts, if they don't I will, maybe just a dream but I'm a firm believer that if you can't get someone to do it right, do it yourself.

I like the apprenticeships, the sustainable economy and allowing players to 'develop' the world. It connects players in a way many mmo's can't challenge.
  Vidir

Novice Member

Joined: 1/14/04
Posts: 966

9/17/11 6:09:12 PM#45

Only game I did like crafting in was Asherons Call and that was not even crafting but tinkering,great fun.Crafting in all other games I have played is just as boring as going to work.

  DasKraut46

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/11
Posts: 22

9/17/11 8:23:56 PM#46

Originally posted by darkedone02

you see, I don't usually like the standard "sit and wait" when crafting like WoW, Aion, and all other games gathering and production crafting systems, I perfer puzzles and small mini-games like Everquest 2 and Vanguard. I wish they made each and every crafting a bit different, like a hidden-Object game, a Match 3-game and many puzzling elements to work our brain and produce a nice quality item depending on our performance.





 


Lol, I hated EQ2 crafting.  The "mini-game" just made crafting even more tedious to me.  I guess that's why they have vanilla and chocolate ice cream :).


  Xexv

Novice Member

Joined: 6/02/11
Posts: 310

9/17/11 8:34:52 PM#47

EverQuest has alot to answer for in ruining crafting for lots of gamers early on =P

Even nowadays with developed crafting systems I still have to approach cautiously or else I'll get the shakes/redevelop RSI >_>

Xexv Xfire Miniprofile
  ZoeMcCloskey

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/14/05
Posts: 1131

INTJ, fun is fun except when it's not

9/18/11 3:06:19 AM#48

I like crafting in games that make it deep, complex and interesting.  In games where it is not just tacked on and crafters are a class unto themselves, it can be very fun.

Sadly these days most games just blob some cruddy WoW type system on there and call it crafting *sigh*  They make it where every single player can be a crafter of the best sort and most end up doing it because they feel they need to "win" at the game and they aren't winning unless the min/max everything there is to min/max.

Wish they would make more games where crafters have a lot to do and then the few of us who like it can provide to the many who do not.  You know like a real economy *sigh*

  Wolfhammer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 525

Bleh!

9/18/11 8:49:31 AM#49

Originally posted by SBFord

Just a few random thoughts that would make crafting more interesting in MY eyes:




1. An apprenticeship: You know like it always was and, in some cases, is still today. You have to learn your livelihood from a master craftsman. So crafters could either hook up with a real person who has earned the master craftsman moniker or have NPCs available to accomplish the same thing. The master would gradually ramp up the difficulty of the items to be created WITHOUT having to make, as someone said, 1000 useless pieces of junk in order to grind out the points. Just make it a bit harder to be successful, not impossible, just a BIT harder.




2. I LOVE the idea of making crafting more dependent on the equipment you have in your shop. Crafters should have to 'build' their own studio with better and better tools with which to make their products. Players might, for instance, win rewards from their apprentice master in the form of new tools or a new bellows or whatever. Or they could go out and collect the resources to build and expand their workshops. This would also be a double boon in that a game's housing system would become more useful than it currently is by letting players add on their studios to their houses. Whole player-owned towns could spring up with their own marketplaces based on what players are crafting and selling.







 


If you make it, we will come !


  garry

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/05
Posts: 264

9/18/11 11:26:56 AM#50

There are three types of player POV for crafting. 1) I do not like it. 2) I like it. 3) I do not care.


 


!) I do not like it - These people are IMPORTANT if they say more than just an anti-crafting rant. If a game wants crafting (depending on dev resources and time) then these folks can help you address what might be wrong with the crafting in a game. It helps a dev if they explain what they do not like.


 


2) I like it - These folks are NEEDED by devs because quite often they give valuable clues as to what a lot of players want to see and do. Many good ideas come from craft friendly players and their input is valuable in development of a crafting system


 


3) I do not care - The hope of devs is to catch the attention and interest of these players so they have a more positive attitude toward crafting and thus - stay longer in the game.


 


Finally, what is needed is a major thread with posts by at least the first two categories for ideas in crafting. A MMORPG blogger or employee could post a positive article on what they would like to see in crafting for an mmo to go along with this article from a negative POV.


 


Crafting in an MMO is actually a complex thing from a resource and player perspective. Needs more detailed ideas and considerations than usually available in a thread and also the known restraints a dev is aware of and which restricts what he can have in game. Programming within the engine framework, art assets, animations, in game economy etc...Of course I have my own ideas and so do a lot of the posters here. SWTOR is trying something different, haven't heard about crafting in either GW2 or TSW yet.


  daeandor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/02/04
Posts: 3009

9/19/11 1:31:00 AM#51
Originally posted by Terranah

Probably my favorite crafting in an mmo was precu SWG.

 

<snip>

 

I think SWG ruined crafting though when they did away with item decay.  But it was great while it lasted.

Crafting didnt change much post - CU and actually didn't change post - NGE.  Yeeeesss, I know there were set classes, however the actual crafting did not change.  Only how you could mix and match professions.

  bumfman

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 277

If I were a canibal I would eat vegetarians because like cows, they would be delicious

9/19/11 5:59:13 AM#52

There are quite a few things i find annoying about crafting.

First as the comic shows, the annoying " make a crap load of crap to get slightly better crap".

Second, taking days on end to make said crap to earn enough skill ups to make something that isnt crap at all (decent weapon,armor, etc).

Third, next expansion comes out that either

a) lets you obtain some kind of item that gives insane + stats to crafting or

b) lets you quest something that is 20 X better than that non crap item it took you weeks to work up the skill to have thus turning it back to the original crap that it once was completing the circle of crap.

Most of this experience was with Everquest, but I have seen it in otther games too.

Doing instance after instance praying for a chance to get a rare crafting component and then having to roll against 5 other people if it does drop, then possibly failing the combine even with a max stat tradeskill AAAaaarrrgggHHhhhH !!!  Then going back and doing it again LOL. The only other option being paying some insane amount for 1 single rare compenent from the bazar,marketplace.

Work hard Play Harder

  Beowulfsam

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/24/11
Posts: 99

9/19/11 8:58:47 AM#53

Out of 10.000 recepies vast majority isn't worth to make. LOTRO crafting is as boring as any other ol' crafting. Collect/buy hundreds of things, craft crap, rince and repeat.


Worst was Aion for me, with collect thousands of stuff, pay lots of monies to vendor and you'll have 20%~ to make improved thing...at the end it was ridiculous, 3 tiers which comes to cool 1% to craft your thing. Woooo.


  Quesa

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 1265

9/19/11 5:22:06 PM#54

Originally posted by babyeater

Earth and beyond had a robust crafting system as well ( hmm also kinda sci fi , mere coincidence?)




 




pretty much crafting is only worthwhile is someone wants what u craft and is willing to reimburse at least the cost of what it took to make it.




in WOW it costs 300g to make something that sells for 30g (if it sells at all) not really a robust system.





 


EnB was robust, in a way.  However, I don't remember any crafter-customization beyond stamping their name on items they crafted.  I did like the way you needed to reverse-engineer items in order to build them and it wasn't guaranteed that you wouldn't fail a RE and destroy the item.


Ryzome has a pretty good resource gathering and crafting system.


  zaxxon23

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/06
Posts: 1285

9/19/11 5:57:37 PM#55

I'm really big into crafting, but I agree that crafting sucks.  There truly is no way to make crafting in and of itself...fun.  It's unrealistic, and frankly a waste of development resources, to make crafting "fun".

 

But I don't craft because crafting is fun.  I craft because of the economy.  I craft for the complexity.  I craft to manage a business of sorts.  THAT is what's fun to me.  Not the actual act of crafting 15 crappy swords to make the less crappy sword.

 

What crafting NEEDS to be successful is differentiation.  That's why I hate wow "crafting".  It's a commodity market.  Everyone sells the same stuff, and lots of it.  But good crafting will have a great economy behind it and allow the crafters to differentiate themselves from one another.  That's what made SWG so great.  Not the crafting system, but the economy.

  Cameo3

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/11
Posts: 234

9/20/11 3:38:02 AM#56

Personally, I love crafting. When it has my name on it...dang :)


If it doesn't have my toon name on it though, its ok. I just like making stuff rather then quest rewards which becomes a point and click game. Crafting you gather materials and sit down and make something.


On the flip side though, I'm not all for WoW's makeup of making a million items to level up...a few items with a lot of materials are better in my mind then a million items requiring 4 materials to skill up.


Just my 2 cents.


Member of Talon | www.lakexeno.com
RIFT: Redcameo, Warrior, Faemist Server
RIFT: Bluecameo, Mage, Faemist Server

  Cameo3

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/11
Posts: 234

9/20/11 7:23:08 AM#57

[double posted]


Member of Talon | www.lakexeno.com
RIFT: Redcameo, Warrior, Faemist Server
RIFT: Bluecameo, Mage, Faemist Server

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