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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: Will SWTOR Be the Last Big-Budget MMOG?

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156 posts found

Novice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 92

9/13/11 1:31:14 PM#61

 I'll drink to that idea.  Long been time to move on.

It is best for the industry the MMO throne remains an dusty empty seat never to be filled.


Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/08
Posts: 96

9/13/11 1:38:08 PM#62

Dear OP,


Guild Wars 2.





Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/08
Posts: 528

9/13/11 1:38:14 PM#63

Eventually our economy has to get better or we're going to destroy ourselves in a resource war. If our economy gets better, the individual purchasing power rises. Given enough time, most of humanity will eventually rise above poverty level. It will be during this time that the world will be filled with subscriptions everybody can easily afford.

The Free-2-Play shift is only a result of the global economic crash caused by GW Bush.


Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 176

That which does not kill us, makes us stronger!!!

9/13/11 1:44:46 PM#64

First off, I couldn't care less about SWTOR. IMO the game is an epic fail already because of the Dev's lack of care when it came to the piss poor space layer that they put in. Secondly, I am all about the monthly sub fee. 

The F2p model is just confusing to me.....Do I buy stupid points and not sub? If I sub to the game the monthly alotments of points is never enough to buy anything worth I have to buy points too?

To me the F2 p is just a giant SCAM!

WoW is a scam in and of it have to buy expansions to play. And your out of luck if you don't buy them.

I don't see SWTOR the pinnical of progression for MMO's, There is PLENTY of subject matter to base a major MMO title off of that will have monthly subscriptions.


Novice Member

Joined: 8/23/05
Posts: 702

9/13/11 2:35:31 PM#65


"Only in quiet waters do things mirror themselves undistorted.
Only in a quiet mind is adequate perception of the world."
Hans Margolius


Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/07
Posts: 2133

9/13/11 2:47:59 PM#66


He who keeps his cool best wins.


Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/08
Posts: 652

9/13/11 3:12:15 PM#67

With the invention of the internet, Richard can pretty much search for anything at all that might support his stance of a P2P free world. In addition, it would be unheard of that a publisher would claim taht anyone else coming up behind them wouldn't be good enough to follow in their footsteps... nope that never happens. heh.

parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/30/11
Posts: 964

9/13/11 3:13:49 PM#68

I would imagine that Richard only shops with coupons.  


Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/11
Posts: 73

9/13/11 3:21:04 PM#69

If I were the head of a company that makes ridiculously lame, over-hyped, and stale MMO's... yes, I would probably feel the same way.

Great games will come in time.  Countless garbage F2P games will fill the gaps in time, and rare free-gems like Guild Wars will maintain the mass interest in the medium.

Star Wars won't be the last... Blizzard is working on Titan for christ's sake.  I can't imagine they are slacking on that endeavour.

What SOE needs is a new head.  It sounds like their current one is infected.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6701

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

9/13/11 3:21:44 PM#70

Guild Wars 2 and when Blizzard finally announces what Titan is. You also have the Kingdoms of Amalur mmo coming as well as Undead Labs zombie console mmo on the way.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/09
Posts: 1427

9/13/11 3:44:15 PM#71

Not with NCSoft still standing strong on the market.

GW2 will be B2P not F2P and is a big budget title.

Blade&Soul already has taken up the shape of their expectable P2P model games and is a big budget title.

Wildstar looks like a game that will turn out as P2P or possibly B2P and is a big budget title.

And with NCSoft they will likely stay B2P or P2P.

Atleast its shure with the games they develop their own for the mere fact its a massive hassle and even risky process to change a game to work with two businessmodel at the same time for different locations. And there is no reason yet and likely wont be sooner nor later, to even assume they have any needs to go F2P with any of their games in the Eastern regions. Actually their competition already HAS gone or better said always was pretty much completely F2P over in the East even for a decade now and still they are here producing successfull big budget MMORPGs. Why kill or even just risk their main income for some secondary offshore markets whoes?




Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 16886

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

9/13/11 3:46:02 PM#72


For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me


Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/11
Posts: 367

9/13/11 3:51:12 PM#73

While i feel ToR, won't be the last big budget MMOG, i do think F2P will become the dominate payment style. I expect Blizz to go Big-Budget with ''TiTan'' maybe even bigger than WoW and while every publisher don't have the money to go big, quality titles will come and go. F2P / Micro-Transaction will be the dominant way to go because the average consumer feels less restricted in puchasing an item for $10 than paying $15 a month . Yes there will still be games that choose the $15 a month route but players tend to expect more out of those games than they do F2P.  

I can see Bioware putting up some cool rides in the EA Store, weather it be Speedsters/Ships and a majority of the player base buying it...  



Joined: 5/28/07
Posts: 868

"If men were created equal, then what happened to game developers?"

9/13/11 4:00:32 PM#74

I would love to see a developer change the monthly subscribtion cost. I remember hearing sometime ago that the $15 model was based on what it would effectively take to keep servers running given a certain population and still see some profit. But that was then. I could see maybe $10/month in this day of age being more reasonable considering the market if the developer can sustain a certain amount of accounts, such as SWTOR. Would be a nice lil surprise.


Advanced Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 2279

"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977."

9/13/11 4:16:40 PM#75

So let me see if I get this straight...

Smed thinks that TOR is going to be the last big budget MMO to use a subscription model because it's too risky to fund big budget MMOs via subscription?

And how is developing a big budget F2P less risky?

At least with the sub model, you have a whole lot of ways to generate revenue before the game is launched and after the game launches.  You also have a direct correlation between subscriber interest and revenue.  It's what Nassim Taleb talks about as 'non-scalable": your revenue is directly related to the number of boxes and subscriptions sold.

To develop a free to play game, however, takes a lot of money up front in the hopes you'll get paid...eventually.  There are fewer ways to generate revenue pre-launch, and a huge risk that interest won't be high enough to get players to commit to the item store.  While the revenue model is "scalable," or not linked to the number of subscriptions sold, this cuts both ways.  Yes, you have the potential to make more, but you also have the potential to bomb with the demographic that really matters: the hardcore spenders.

At least with the sub model, you can see that x amount of players is going to generate y amount of revenue.  But with the FTP model, x number of players can in no way predict what y revenue will be.  It could be more, it could be less, it could be that you are the most popular game under the sun, but go broke regardless.

I think Aihoshi made an exceedingly good point towards the end: "Although F2P operators are getting better at monetizing their games, they simply don't have any way of immediately generating comparable cash inflow. "

And that--more than anything else in my opinion--is going to make the "box & sub" model much more preferable than free to play when it comes to developing games (not necessarily running games), especially in this uncertain economic climate.  Indeed, most of the AAA F2P games we have now started as P2P, and there's a reason for that.  It's because you have to understand what you have before you can start to speculate, realistically, about what you could have.

And how can you realistically justify the $200 million for a top notch F2P game when you'll never quite know what you paid for...until it's too late to do anything about it?

"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."

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--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

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--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE


Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

9/13/11 4:29:36 PM#76

Do big budgets require the subscription model?  What if GW2 is hugely successful, and makes a ton of money?  It's not exactly small budget, right?  How would that play into the future of big budget MMOs?


When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.


Novice Member

Joined: 4/23/06
Posts: 594

9/13/11 4:40:21 PM#77

No it won't be the last , 20 Million is nothing compared to the initial income "lets take SWTOR as an example"


Pre orders have almost reached 1 million & thats to be expected with all the hype & fanboys , with just the standar edition being 59.95  thats $60 Million Dollars  that not including Collector edition prices , so for most AAA MMO there is zero risk as long as you have a decent IP & build the hype you can't fail . well unless you spend 100 Milion on development :)


Old School

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 206

Life is Live.

9/13/11 4:46:09 PM#78

Originally posted by raistlinm

I don't really value Smedley's opinion in the least bit and am skeptical of anything he has to say.


Amen. Smedly is bad for business. He will be remembered as the guy who started and finished the downfall of SOE as a player in the MMO market.

Del Cabon
A US Army Vet (7th ID "Just Cause") and MMORPG Native formerly of Trinsic and Dereth. Currently playing ESO. Following Project Gorgon, Shroud of the Avatar Pantheon and Crowfall.
Founder of Starshadow circa 1995 (ret.)


Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/07
Posts: 22

I walk this earth with my gift and my curse.

9/13/11 4:54:17 PM#79

The reason for the big bugets is to try to get a bigger slice of the MMO pie.

As long as there is money to be made.........other companies will attempt to "GET SOME".



Advanced Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 1064

9/13/11 5:12:01 PM#80

Every F2P-title where there's a cash-shop is not a fair and level playing-field.

So either we're looking for the P2P-model or F2P/B2P without cash-shop if we're interested in competitive gameplay and PvP or we're not playing at all.

With that said there's two possibilities: first, all MMOGs in the future are either mindless themeparks without competitive gameplay, or second, the statement made about the future of MMOGs revenue-models is wrong and we'll still see P2P-titles down the road.

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