Soloism, dumbing down content for sales and not to mention there is is almost no innovation at all right now. You can also add in the fact that they are simply not that fun. Instead of making a game that is based off fun they instead focus on how to monetize the game first.

You could always solo in Asheron's Call minus some extreme quest lines. That game came out in 1999.

What killed mmo's is the the developers thinking themepark mmo's with gated end game contect were the only template to follow. Most players can't even imagine an mmo not following that template now.

The best mmo's (despite not being the most played) were a far cry from being todays clones. Game making is big business now. You will not see companies taking risks and innovation is stunted. They only consider returns within fiscal cycles and plan their cycles using current marketing strategies which is why gaming these days is nothing more than sequal after sequal after sequal.

The only games we will see within the next 5 years by major developer/distributors will be:

mmo clone XXX

and

FPS shooter/hybrid YYY

Intelligent gaming is dead.

The fact that something evil  grows out of something I judge to be good and morphs into something far more popular but a travesty to what went before is irrelevant to the economics of the situation.

To be sure, no one has to like it.   I don't.   But not liking it doesn't mean it isn't successful, on its own terms,  for what it does.   It doesn't mean it won't last a long time.  The population of people playing and paying in one form or another is huge now as compared to the population playing UO and EQ1 back in the day.    I think EQ peaked at maybe 400k?

Well, money has ruined MMOs.   And it is much worse than WoW moving so far from the DnD experience.   Much worse than cheap wow-cloned FTP games... It is...FARMVILLE...  gahhhhhhhhh.

It's a fundamental problem that the incentive of money often creates a drive for innovation.    And the same incentive then is fully capable of ruining the original idea.   And producing eleventy-seven bad copies  that are cheaper.

WoW is far from the worst thing that has happened to MMOs.   That's a pretty devastating thing when I think about it.  

You can find groups in WoW...of course the reason for it will be to do the mind-numbing end game.

Originally posted by Uproar

 

 You left out a big one,

(f) Auction Houses.

Selling used to be a social act.  You would stand on your favorite game corner (East commons Tunnel anyone?) and shout about all the items you had to sell, or all the items you wanted to buy.  It led to interactions.  It led to meeting new people.  It was plain fun thing to do when you were doing nothing else.  When it was replaced with Auction Houses and Bizaars it led not only to inflated prices, eliminated a non-combat activity; both of which led to an ever greater focus on combat.  I would add that the change to bound items did much the same.

Reuse is a necessary social act.  Not just for the RW-environment.

This. Oh I hate Auction Houses in mmorpg's so much. They are totally unimmersive (they work like modern stock exchange in medievel like settings).

Trading yourself encouraged social interaction , made economy much more interesting , things like NPC selling your wares in UO was just great! Ah I miss it. 

Really all those AH, intances teleportation , auto finding groups , quest trackers showing you arrows where to go , like people would be retarted and could not figure out where to go.

Ehh bad stuff.

Maybe there are too many MMOs out that has spread out the types of players you once recognized. There is definitly more MMO's to choose from now compared to the EQ2 and SWG days. Better yet, seems like a lot of you posting on this thread seem to have a common ground.

Why can't you all agree on a game together and start again?

Solo Questing kills MMO for me. LVL 1-50 Solo content. I rather grind with friends!

Originally posted by Tamanous

You could always solo in Asheron's Call minus some extreme quest lines. That game came out in 1999.

What killed mmo's is the the developers thinking themepark mmo's with gated end game contect were the only template to follow. Most players can't even imagine an mmo not following that template now.

The best mmo's (despite not being the most played) were a far cry from being todays clones. Game making is big business now. You will not see companies taking risks and innovation is stunted. They only consider returns within fiscal cycles and plan their cycles using current marketing strategies which is why gaming these days is nothing more than sequal after sequal after sequal.

The only games we will see within the next 5 years by major developer/distributors will be:

mmo clone XXX

and

FPS shooter/hybrid YYY

 

 

Intelligent gaming is dead.

Agreed,and in Asherons Call you could gear up your charakter solo and even trade your old gear when you found better,the loot system in AC is the best I have seen in any mmo.

I am in agreement with this post. I play these games to be part of something greater than myself and I never understood why there was so much solo content in a Massive Multiplayer Onlne Role Playing game.

If you want a good solo RPG play some good standalone games like Dragon Age II or Witcher II that has great RPG elements for a single player to enjoy.

City of Heroes/Villians offered the best multi player experience for me because the game encourgaed players to play together which is why I play an MMO in the first place.

I am also not a big fan of chat in a game, it takes away the game experience for me. I see where it is necessary for raids but not for regular gaming.

One postive note, if you are lucky enough to have joined a small guild with good people, you can have a great gaming experience in almost any game.

Vodun

Originally posted by Vodun

If you want a good solo RPG play some good standalone games like Dragon Age II or Witcher II that has great RPG elements for a single player to enjoy.

 

And if you don't like ice cold water why don't you just go and drink boiling water?

The point is most people like a mixture of the two, something in between, and even a single player experience is way more fun in an MMO than in a single player game.  Sometimes in a city I like to go for a walk by myself and I enjoy the people around me, the sites and sounds, even though I am taking a walk by myself.  And maybe I like to wear my sweet threads and see if the ladies are checkin me out LOL.

I'm pretty tired of people saying go play a single player game if they like solo content.  Maybe I say get out of my MMO if you only like group content.  Tell me again where in MMO is the word "group."  It is not MMOG it is MMO and in no way implies you have to group.

Now, I like grouping and think its fun, but I also like to just mess around, or enjoy the story, and it is sometime hard to do that at a leisurly pace in a group.

Originally posted by Elikal

Now I am sure you will say, kill? How can you say so, Elikal? Millions are playing MMOs, every few I am sure you find other reasons, why this development from MMOs a social game to MMOs as soloist haven came to be. For me, it has make MMO gaming unbelievably boring. I know, some love to make it all alone. I don't. For me, it entirely kills the purpose of MMOs. The quests of MMOs are rarely that exciting that soloing is so fun. And this spirit, the feeling that doing stuff together is more fun than doing it alone, that spirit is lost.

I can summarise the issues that are killing the games for me as a very long time gamer as some of us have been in it from the start.

Firstly soloing has nothing to do with the demise.

ccesability: The internet has grown now anyone can access and play a game it used to be the case that only people with money could play and the servers had tighter player limitations. Now the dumb and the poor and the insta win crowd want to play but what they are playing is just not like the original MMOs . Where longevity / Gameplay and Community were key

Lame features, that have distracted from real MMORPG play:

Auction Houses: Killed traveling and hawking items at the capital city , setting up a shop and other interesting game elements

INsta Mail: Killed the need to communicate, this is how communities form.

INsta Travel: Killed the need to work together and travel in groups via that dangerous Mountain Pass or Impassable swamp. More degradation of co op and community.

No penalty for bad play: Death is no longer an issue oh i died, whole gameplay sessions could be based around corpse recovery.

And then it gets worse, as the popularity grows:

• Dumbing down of gameplay
• Removal of longevity
• Guild Mechanisms do not promote healthy gameplay self motivated; Guild features should be an integral part of the world where factions vi for taxes or dominance in cities/regions of the world.
• Insta win; where did the charachter development dissapear to.
• Side effects of popularity ; Gold Farmers
• Win at all cost players not wanting to play the games anymore but just pay to win. (Godl farmer generated and F2P-Greed generated)

Originally posted by Vodun

I am in agreement with this post. I play these games to be part of something greater than myself and I never understood why there was so much solo content in a Massive Multiplayer Onlne Role Playing game.

If you want a good solo RPG play some good standalone games like Dragon Age II or Witcher II that has great RPG elements for a single player to enjoy.

City of Heroes/Villians offered the best multi player experience for me because the game encourgaed players to play together which is why I play an MMO in the first place.

I am also not a big fan of chat in a game, it takes away the game experience for me. I see where it is necessary for raids but not for regular gaming.

One postive note, if you are lucky enough to have joined a small guild with good people, you can have a great gaming experience in almost any game.

 

Vodun

You don't understand thats why.

A true MMO setting is about having thousands of thinking players in a single world; They should never be forced to do anythi9ng in the world that they do not wish to. It is about longevity and community.

So if you want to hunt solo ; explore and travel do it ; if you want to craft and trade do it ; if you want to govern parts of the world via land grab/ village/City/Capital do it. If you wish to group to face greater challenges do it.

The MMO in reality was always about numbers of players in a world not a definition on the fact you have to play together its about choice.

Enforced gameplay is a job not gameplay.

I remember games where crafting was an acheivement: That is noit the case anymore

I remember games where traveling was dangerous: Not anymore

I remember games where markets existed: Not anymore

It is just all too easy these days; The Developers have killed the Genre with easy mode ; easy win easy everything.

But there are a few shining beacons and eventually one Developer will deliver again soon; because people want a real game to play.

Meh, could care less about grping with others. I like the fact that if I see someone running by its another player. not an npc on a loop. If I wanna chase them down and kill them or grp with them thats what matters. Mmos are spossed to be about you being the hero or another star in the galaxy. To take down something epic you group, but why you think i should group to kill these pigs is beyond me.

Originally posted by Isane

ccesability: The internet has grown now anyone can access and play a game it used to be the case that only people with money could play and the servers had tighter player limitations. Now the dumb and the poor and the insta win crowd want to play but what they are playing is just not like the original MMOs . Where longevity / Gameplay and Community were key

 

I was poor then and i'm still poor now, but I have always had the love for games.

Originally posted by Bruise187

Meh, could care less about grping with others. I like the fact that if I see someone running by its another player. not an npc on a loop. If I wanna chase them down and kill them or grp with them thats what matters. Mmos are spossed to be about you being the hero or another star in the galaxy. To take down something epic you group, but why you think i should group to kill these pigs is beyond me.

Originally posted by Sagasaint

the attrocious communities of today are the reason for more and more solo content in MMOs, or have communities hit the rock bottom (and then dig a 1 mile hole just to sink EVEN MORE) due to solo-ism in MMOs?

what was first? egg or chicken?

Well I know personally from playing EQ...sure, toolbags existed even then in MMO's. But there weren't as many because MMORPG's were still a small niche genre. And even the ones that were there got dealt a nasty hand rather quick when they acted up. They were usually scolded by the masses to quit acting like an idiot, if that didn't work, they were quickly blacklisted across their respected server. This usually resulted in them straightening up if they wanted into a Guild or to accomplish most grouping content, or they left the server all together. The communities then were friendly, helpful and informative...and almost all were great to talk to (Mainly during mana/hp regen downtime) and get to knowing.

This just doesn't happen in today's MMO communities. People acting like idiots is encouraged by the greater part of the community that also joins in (See WoW and the whole Leroy Jenkins/Chuck Norris era crap). Barely anyone is friendly or helpful...they rather ignore you, give a smartass reply, or call you a noob for asking questions. They are too busy rushing to cap in these solo happy MMO's of today to bother with creating any type of community....

I don't feel you can really say more and more solo content is created because the communities are terrible. They are terrible because TONS more people now play MMO's due to it's mainstreaming. More and more solo content is added to replace group content because these players WANT it. It's both ruining community AND desolving the need for one.

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Well I know personally from playing EQ...sure, toolbags existed even then in MMO's. But there weren't as many because MMORPG's were still a small niche genre. And even the ones that were there got dealt a nasty hand rather quick when they acted up. They were usually scolded by the masses to quit acting like an idiot, if that didn't work, they were quickly blacklisted across their respected server. This usually resulted in them straightening up if they wanted into a Guild or to accomplish most grouping content, or they left the server all together. The communities then were friendly, helpful and informative...and almost all were great to talk to (Mainly during mana/hp regen downtime) and get to knowing.

This just doesn't happen in today's MMO communities. People acting like idiots in encouraged by the greater part of the community that also joins in (See WoW and the whole Leroy Jenkins/Chuck Norris era crap). Barely anyone is friendly or helpful...they rather ignore you, give a smartass reply, or call you a noob for asking questions. They are too busy rushing to cap in these solo happy MMO's of today to bother with creating any type of community....

I don't feel you can really say more and more solo content is created because the communities are terrible. They are terrible because TONS more people now play MMO's due to it's mainstreaming. More and more solo content is added to replace group content because these players WANT it. It's both ruining community AND desolving the need for one.

Those were also smaller commuities compared to the communities they have now. When you have twice the volume of people than you had then of course you are going to get more screw ups as you would get in Uncle Sams's Yatch Club.

Have you played WoW recently? Most of the time (I'm not saying there aren't exceptions), if you post a question in public chat, the very same people making joking remarks will follow their comments up with a serious, helpful response. Or, 4-5 other people will respond helpfully. Or, you may get joking responses, but then you will get 4 tells with people actually being helpful, then offering to send you bags, gold, gear, etc. I've found that it's like this in most games. You get your asshats, and you get your cool people and a lot in between. That's life for you, mmo's are the same way, they are played by people after all.

I feel like the decline of mmo communities is greatly exaggerated, but hey, that's just me.

I agree that the problem with MMOs today is mainly the players. Hell, even FPS titles suffer the same problem of idiotic players and wannabe trolls. This is why I tend to avoid playing MMOs for the most part. I'm playing FFXI, but I'm seriously thinking of dumping the subscription since I know full and well I'm likely to find a gaggle of a---hats. 9_9

November 23rd 2004 introduced -- SOLOISM -- in future MMORPGs, I mean MMOs.

Old school mmorpg's died this year as well.