Quited Rift cause raid or die end game. Gear driven end game just causes problems - in PvP(gear > skill - this really kills the fun), in PvE(You n00b get better gear, *kick*),  in guilds(dramas "cuz he got that tanking set fist and I'm teh main tank"), at forums(casual vs hardcore player wars) and more...

I'm thinking that more mature players(that have much deeper pockets than youngsters) are now done with raiding job they experienced in WoW/LOTRO/Rift and want to just enjoy the game and pick what they like to do instead raid or quit choice.

So yeah I'm really looking forward to no raid driven game and if GW2 delivers that I'll gladly jump in and my money will follow me. I just hope they won't listen to vocal minority with brainsize of peanut that will moan like zombies for purplez and 1337 raidz, as it's granted they will come and whine at forums the moment they hit lvl cap.

Originally posted by Xziled

Originally posted by nightsong89

The whole thing with a lack of raiding. Finally, it's about bloody time. I absolutely hated the concept of being stuck on a treadmill always trying to get the next new piece of gear that's just slightly out of reach. It's an old outdated concept from the days of early MMO's when they needed to attract new players and keep them interested so the genre could grow. ArenaNet is throwing out whatever isn't fun in MMO's and for the majority of players raiding and a gear treadmill is anything but fun.

 That has to be one of the most assinine states i've read on these forums.

If you had nothing to obtain.. gear, mounts, achievements or whatever... what would keep you playing. The concept of no end game raiding in an MMO is laughable. Running around all day crafting, doing 5mans or maybe even PvP would get old fast and there would be no longevity to the game.

Longevity for an MMO is based around a simple set of events..

Level Up

Gear Up

5 Mans to gear up for raiding

End Game Raiding

 

MMOs with out end game raiding is like a Relationship without sex.. It gets old fast.

DAOC, no real end game raiding, played 2.75 years, EVE,  no end game raiding at all, played 3.5 years.....

No, MMORPG's don't require end game raiding to be fun for a long period of time, you've just been brainwashed by the current theme park design.

For many folks, soon as they get to the "raiding" part of an MMO they're out the door, Rift has seen much of this.

Different play styles is all.

Your a social player(keyboard turner)... You have massive amounts of time to kill. If you arent concerned with end game it tells me you probably the type of player who has never done end game content.

I like so many others who play MMOs play to do it all.. Not just roam aimlessly around the countryside, but to actually defeat every piece of content in the game and have fun doing it.

To me if the game says that I reached the end...the game is over and I stop playing, regardless of the amount of "end game" contents there are.

And since in GW2 I am the one to say when it ends....it's an endless game. It's my story after all. ;)

Originally posted by Xziled

Different play styles is all.

 

Your a social player(keyboard turner)... You have massive amounts of time to kill. If you arent concerned with end game it tells me you probably the type of player who has never done end game content.

 

I like so many others who play MMOs play to do it all.. Not just roam aimlessly around the countryside, but to actually defeat every piece of content in the game and have fun doing it.

 

Then you will have no problem in GW2 because when you hit max level there will be so much more content to do, way more than any other "end game" content in any game I know of. And you will be getting relevant rewards for it that you can always use. Bonus!

Oh, but none of it is a "raid". So you will love it by your own definition of someone who needs to complete all game content. Especially if you include trait collecting, titles, and achievements.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Xziled

 That has to be one of the most assinine states i've read on these forums.

If you had nothing to obtain.. gear, mounts, achievements or whatever... what would keep you playing. The concept of no end game raiding in an MMO is laughable. Running around all day crafting, doing 5mans or maybe even PvP would get old fast and there would be no longevity to the game.

Longevity for an MMO is based around a simple set of events..

Level Up

Gear Up

5 Mans to gear up for raiding

End Game Raiding

MMOs with out end game raiding is like a Relationship without sex.. It gets old fast.

DAOC, no real end game raiding, played 2.75 years, EVE,  no end game raiding at all, played 3.5 years.....

No, MMORPG's don't require end game raiding to be fun for a long period of time, you've just been brainwashed by the current theme park design.

For many folks, soon as they get to the "raiding" part of an MMO they're out the door, Rift has seen much of this.

Agreed, MMO endgame gets old fast. I remember when leveling in itself still had some challenge in it...

But it could be worse, the other type of PvE endgame Wow and similar games offer are dailys....

Raiding is the least work a dev can make to create most time cunsuming stuff. Don't get me wrong, a raid can be fun but the problem is that it is fun the first time, not the 20th. 

Originally posted by Xziled

Different play styles is all.

 

Your a social player(keyboard turner)... You have massive amounts of time to kill. If you arent concerned with end game it tells me you probably the type of player who has never done end game content.

 

I like so many others who play MMOs play to do it all.. Not just roam aimlessly around the countryside, but to actually defeat every piece of content in the game and have fun doing it.

 

btw, I love the "If you disagree with my opinion, you obviously haven't tried it" attitude, coupled with the comment on relationships without sex. Shows that your maturity level and age generally match this site's demographics.

The poll seems to point out that most people are not intoo gear grinding endgames anymore...

Originally posted by Xziled

Different play styles is all.

Your a social player(keyboard turner)... You have massive amounts of time to kill. If you arent concerned with end game it tells me you probably the type of player who has never done end game content.

I like so many others who play MMOs play to do it all.. Not just roam aimlessly around the countryside, but to actually defeat every piece of content in the game and have fun doing it.

Yeah, if someone is bored of the endgame it must be because they never played it, instead of doing the same friggin endgame for the last 7 years...

Hello! I want something new, the idea that doing the same raid over and over is a "challenge" is just silly.

I also like to defeat all challenges in a game, but defeating the exactly same thing over and over stops being challenging pretty fast and turns into another grind.

Sure, there were grinding in the old MMOs as well (and will be some in GW2 too), in the old games gaining a level became a rather hard work and often challenging but it never was so grindy as the so called modern endgame.

I played MMOs for 15 years and frankly are not at all happy with the gear focus later games have gotten. About time someone tries something new.

Originally posted by Xziled

Different play styles is all.

 

Your a social player(keyboard turner)... You have massive amounts of time to kill. If you arent concerned with end game it tells me you probably the type of player who has never done end game content.

 

I like so many others who play MMOs play to do it all.. Not just roam aimlessly around the countryside, but to actually defeat every piece of content in the game and have fun doing it.

 

i have played end game (wow was something i played often tried to get into raiding but the gear requirements and all the other boring grinding requirements ) also you assume all any of us who disagreed with you do is wander aimlessly around the countryside... i for one do not (nor do i have massive amounts of time to kill again i have done end game in wow and others and its hideously boring).

i agree with whoever said they tend to stop playing when it says end game or role an alt (altho with gw2 there wont be an endgame so ill just run around doing things that appeal to me like dungeons, DE's and pvp).

and btw what you define as endgame isnt necessarily what end game is the end of the game is where the content tends to drop off. in the end, end game is what you define it to be.

oh btw why do you like to grind for things like gear and achievments? you seem to think there is a reason and a purpose behind these and that any game without them isnt fun? personaly i cant see any reason to want them but thats just me i guess.

(and if you werent talking about my post whoops)

Originally posted by Xziled

Originally posted by nightsong89

The whole thing with a lack of raiding. Finally, it's about bloody time. I absolutely hated the concept of being stuck on a treadmill always trying to get the next new piece of gear that's just slightly out of reach. It's an old outdated concept from the days of early MMO's when they needed to attract new players and keep them interested so the genre could grow. ArenaNet is throwing out whatever isn't fun in MMO's and for the majority of players raiding and a gear treadmill is anything but fun.

 That has to be one of the most assinine states i've read on these forums.

If you had nothing to obtain.. gear, mounts, achievements or whatever... what would keep you playing. The concept of no end game raiding in an MMO is laughable. Running around all day crafting, doing 5mans or maybe even PvP would get old fast and there would be no longevity to the game.

Longevity for an MMO is based around a simple set of events..

Level Up

Gear Up

5 Mans to gear up for raiding

End Game Raiding

 

MMOs with out end game raiding is like a Relationship without sex.. It gets old fast.

If that's one of the most asinine statements you've read on these forums, you must not be doing a lot of reading. 

If raids truly are the culmination of gaming enjoyment to you, there are/will be plenty of games that provide you with your eternal fix of vanilla treadmilling.  Knock yourself out.  Thankfully, there is at least one game out there that recognizes why many of us despise that kind of contrived mechanic and has been designed with that in mind. 

Oh, but you do realize that your strident proclamations don't speak for all of us, don't you?

Ah the horror of no raiding contend !

No carrot on a stick for lemmings to fellow !

Instead Anet is experimenting with a totaly diffrent and radical change of the mmo genre :)

After playing WoW - Aion - Warhammer - Eve - EQ - and a dozen more mmo's iam hungry for contend like Dynamic Events that blow your head of.

Seen some of those events and they look AMAZING - AWESOME !

And i havent even seen any serious PVP Action yet :)

If you want LFG Dungeon tools and shit like that pls stick to wow, Anet aint gonne listen to kids who try to dumb down the game and cry over on forums 24/7 over class balance and stuff like you see on WoW forums.

So far GW1 has one of the best balanced Esports pvp out there, they learned even more over the past years and are creating something very rare, something that might be the best mmo for many many years to come.

The tought of seeing all those whiney crying wow kids in GW2 can make the game painfull in the beginning, but iam confident those will leave fast when blizzard starts to steal 90% of GW2 ideas and call it a new expansion lols :)

Nothing against mature players, but most of us are still traumatized by the playerbase of WoW :P Me included !

Originally posted by Xziled

Originally posted by nightsong89

The whole thing with a lack of raiding. Finally, it's about bloody time. I absolutely hated the concept of being stuck on a treadmill always trying to get the next new piece of gear that's just slightly out of reach. It's an old outdated concept from the days of early MMO's when they needed to attract new players and keep them interested so the genre could grow. ArenaNet is throwing out whatever isn't fun in MMO's and for the majority of players raiding and a gear treadmill is anything but fun.

 That has to be one of the most assinine states i've read on these forums.

If you had nothing to obtain.. gear, mounts, achievements or whatever... what would keep you playing. The concept of no end game raiding in an MMO is laughable. Running around all day crafting, doing 5mans or maybe even PvP would get old fast and there would be no longevity to the game.

Longevity for an MMO is based around a simple set of events..

Level Up

Gear Up

5 Mans to gear up for raiding

End Game Raiding

 

MMOs with out end game raiding is like a Relationship without sex.. It gets old fast.

And I feel really bad for you if you think the ony staying power of MMO's is raiding. I fall into the majority of MMO players who dislike raiding (some of us do it but we don't find it fun) and are very happy to see it gone and replaced with stuff that is actual fun that you can make friends off of (World vs World vs World and dynamic events).

Disclaimer: I dislike raiding very much.  The last time i raided was in LotRO and WoW.  I'm just trying to see the perspective from their point of view.

Everyone seems to be missing this point about raiding.  It actually builds friendships (and drama) within a guild, or clique of people.  Raiding is the social cohesion akin to a "family".  If these people don't experience content together on a daily basis, they will have no reason to stick together.

In other words, people want to socialize, and be associated, with many players in events, with a feeling of accomplishment, loyalty, and pride.  All these get diminished when they can also be completed by random strangers they'll never associate with on a daily basis.

Sure, there is PvP, Achievements, DE's, and 5 man dungeons, but will any of these features keep these communities (guilds/alliances/etc.) interested in the long run?

PvP - This will probably be the only thing large scale guilds and/or communities will be able to do together.

DE's - These can't be a coordinated effort for a large group of players (10+)  who want content solely for them only.

5 mans - Only 5 people to coordinate strategy with.  Not so epic, considering other games have more people to strategize with.

Originally posted by observer

Sure, there is PvP, Achievements, DE's, and 5 man dungeons, but will any of these features keep these communities (guilds/alliances/etc.) interested in the long run?

From my GW experience, I'd say a long time.

Originally posted by nightsong89

And I feel really bad for you if you think the ony staying power of MMO's is raiding. I fall into the majority of MMO players who dislike raiding (some of us do it but we don't find it fun) and are very happy to see it gone and replaced with stuff that is actual fun that you can make friends off of (World vs World vs World and dynamic events).

 AMEN!

Just to answer the topic. Look at DCUO, it has endgame, where is it now? Look at Rift, without rifts where would it be? The reason WoW has staying power is because it has a strong community, it has nothing to do with raids or traditional "endgame".

Well, i all comes down to content offered.. See end game is just that ''End game'', if the turn out alot of dynamic events, then people will start to complain that they have experience it or seen it before.. The community has some part to play in the ''End Game experiece'', the why i've experienced it is that, when most person are leveling they could careless less what another player was doing, when you reach the end is a total different feeling. If ArenaNet is smart (which i don't doubt) they will leave some of the more cooler dynamic events for end game stuff..

The game ends when you stop playing. Just like Guild Wars 1 theres always something to shoot for. If you somehow gdid all the content in GW1, it would probably have taken years. I've been playing since launch and havent done even 50% of its content.