When i see these 2 words - Cash Shop -  ..the game automaticaly dies for me (I dont care what kind of cash shop it is or what game provides it)  .Simple as that

Originally posted by Thekandy

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by Moirae

~~~~whoosh~~~~~ *watches everything she just said go completely over your head* Wow........ just.......... wow. 

 Not at all, but the 'Sky is falling!' is not very constructive or valide as it isn't in the now. So, 'wow' all you want, you still have yet to deliver a premise that can be discussed.

Are you surprised? It's clear to see that the woman is equally opinionated, arrogant and entitled just by looking at her sig.

 I don't mind the opinion, as long as it accepted as such. There is no need to condescend or denigrate anyone not of the same opinion. Forums are here to discuss these topics, exchange ideas even they become heated. :)

Being a woman has no relevance on whether her arguments are valid or not.

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by Thekandy

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by Moirae

~~~~whoosh~~~~~ *watches everything she just said go completely over your head* Wow........ just.......... wow. 

 Not at all, but the 'Sky is falling!' is not very constructive or valide as it isn't in the now. So, 'wow' all you want, you still have yet to deliver a premise that can be discussed.

Are you surprised? It's clear to see that the woman is equally opinionated, arrogant and entitled just by looking at her sig.

 I don't mind the opinion, as long as it accepted as such. There is no need to condescend or denigrate anyone not of the same opinion. Forums are here to discuss these topics, exchange ideas even they become heated. :)

Being a woman has no relevance on whether her arguments are valid or not.

Thank you.

Originally posted by Moirae

Thank you.

My pleasure.

 I like to debate, and they can get heated at times. Why not?!

 Even if I don't see eye to eye with you on some things such as CS's, it does not detract from the fact that I can still, and do, respect your pov.

Originally posted by shadow9d9

It is so sad to see some fans and others try to defend this.  The new trend in everything seems to be "don't fight it because it is inevitable" and the ridiculous assumption as fact "you'll still play it anyway."

Gamers didn't fight DRM, and now there are schemes such as the upcoming Origin and Ubisoft's must login online even to play singleplayer.  Gamers aren't fighting DLC being withheld from games and released on the release date with the game separately.  

We, as consumers, have the ability to mold the future of the industry.  We control what is allowed, by showing dissatisfaction with our wallets.  When we give up on that, we give the industry more and more to the monetary interests that have no interest in games and only have interest in money.. the bottom line...what more abuses and tricks can be used to take peoples' money.  It is never too late to show dissatisfaction and refuse to buy such products.  Everything, including DRM, DLC, and cash shops, on top of subscriptions and expansions, can be stopped.

Asheron's Call had monthly updates with bug fixes, a storyline, added content, etc for free.  Look at what gamers have allowed to happen since.

 

Take a stand and ignore the fans and other interests that work to allow these abuses.

 A ton of gamers fought DRM and so did the Media, which is why the other options are now a go.  It doesn't help that steam became so popular overnight, but then again, PC gaming is and always has been for the majority of its life span a niche market and very little store shelves are devoted to it.  Infact it went from being a couple of isles at a store to literally one little corner and a couple boxes.  In a couple years you will not be able to buy from retailers without a pre-order I imagine and that will be reserved for Collector's Edition boxed stuff anyways.

Who is to blame?  Well technology.  It is easier and more profitable to just release a game download only through Steam than it is to find a publisher and hope you can sell some games.  So sure we have to now connect to games, but for the majority of people this is not a problem, hell they let everything already have access to half the system because they are computer tards.  DLC unfortunately is not going anywhere and it was first rather liked, but many people feel companies have taken it to the extreme. 

Originally posted by Flinor

Originally posted by Thekandy

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by Moirae

~~~~whoosh~~~~~ *watches everything she just said go completely over your head* Wow........ just.......... wow. 

 Not at all, but the 'Sky is falling!' is not very constructive or valide as it isn't in the now. So, 'wow' all you want, you still have yet to deliver a premise that can be discussed.

Are you surprised? It's clear to see that the woman is equally opinionated, arrogant and entitled just by looking at her sig.

 

Is this sexist post the best you could come up with in this debate? ...wow...

Okay, woah. Slow your roll with the "sexist" crap. Is Moirae not a woman? Does she not make a very obvious attempt to point that out in her sig?

I mean, if we substitute the words "guy" for "woman" and "his" for "her" I doubt I'd see you running in here yealling about TheKandy being sexist against men.

He called her opinionated, arrogant and entitled. He didn't say she was that way because she was a woman. He just paid enough attention to her information to get her gender right when posting. He probably would have gotten berated if he had gotten the gender wrong for not paying enough attention to those details.

*shrug*

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by Moirae

Thank you.

My pleasure.

 I like to debate, and they can get heated at times. Why not?!

 Even if I don't see eye to eye with you on some things such as CS's, it does not detract from the fact that I can still, and do, respect your pov.

 

I feel the same way. I like to debate. I try very hard not to get personally insulting, though some people take it that way. I'm just very passionate about some things. Gaming is one of them. I may not agree with you, and I don't expect you to agree with me, so long as it doesn't become a personal attack.

Originally posted by shadow9d9

It is so sad to see some fans and others try to defend this.  The new trend in everything seems to be "don't fight it because it is inevitable" and the ridiculous assumption as fact "you'll still play it anyway."

Gamers didn't fight DRM, and now there are schemes such as the upcoming Origin and Ubisoft's must login online even to play singleplayer.  Gamers aren't fighting DLC being withheld from games and released on the release date with the game separately.  

We, as consumers, have the ability to mold the future of the industry.  We control what is allowed, by showing dissatisfaction with our wallets.  When we give up on that, we give the industry more and more to the monetary interests that have no interest in games and only have interest in money.. the bottom line...what more abuses and tricks can be used to take peoples' money.  It is never too late to show dissatisfaction and refuse to buy such products.  Everything, including DRM, DLC, and cash shops, on top of subscriptions and expansions, can be stopped.

Asheron's Call had monthly updates with bug fixes, a storyline, added content, etc for free.  Look at what gamers have allowed to happen since.

 

Take a stand and ignore the fans and other interests that work to allow these abuses.

The majority of  all the gaming communities are made up of kids,which are EASY to trick,heck,it's not weven their money they spend.The devs know this and that;'s why it works.

Originally posted by Moirae

I feel the same way. I like to debate. I try very hard not to get personally insulting, though some people take it that way. I'm just very passionate about some things. Gaming is one of them. I may not agree with you, and I don't expect you to agree with me, so long as it doesn't become a personal attack.

 Nope.

And CS's are only as bad as the player allows them to be.  Haha

Originally posted by Elidien

Originally posted by Moirae

 

Oh please. Stop defending greed. This country was founded on principles of getting away from the rich (at the time it was the royalty, now the royalty is the rich top 2% without the title) controlling everything. Instead, there's an odd faction in this country that actually defends letting companies nickle and dime you to death so you end up living on the street. Enough already. 

 

Greed is not good. It never has been, and it never will be. Greed causes 99% of the problems on this planet. 

 

Yes, you have the freedom to vote with your money, but there is always someone else to take that money. If the whole industry goes to this "greed is good" mentality, then we all get screwed. These companies need to know that this is not ok. If they instituted something where a sub got everything that came with a game, with varying levels of subscription right down to an item mall, that would be different. But thats not what happens. Instead, subs get only a portion of the game and have to buy the rest. Thats pure greed. Nothing else. 

 

And as evidenced by SOE's behavior, starting with the "its only going to be fluff" line is a slippery slope. Sooner or later, it will be items that matter to play the game. Then the subs will start getting screwed. Its only a matter of time. We have our proof. 

 

I'm sick to death of being nickle and dimed to death by everyone on the bloody planet. I'm paying you, so give me what I'm paying for, and stop screwing me over all the time.

I vehemently disagree with the part in red. I teach collegiate Political Science and the founding of the US was elitism through landed property owners (I.e...the Federalists). Read Charles Beard's An Economic Interpretation of the Constitution..."

Sorry, do not want to turn this into a political discussion or detract from the thread but had to throw that out there.

This argument could go on ad naseum. Many of the founding fathers believed inherited wealth would be the biggest obstacle to democracy. Hence the incredibly high tax rates on inheritance, in the U.S., up to recently. This is also the reason that the Vanderbilts, Rockefellers and Carnegie built so many libraries, museums and colleges. They couldn't take it with them or give it to their kids.

Originally posted by Moirae

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by Moirae

Thank you.

My pleasure.

 I like to debate, and they can get heated at times. Why not?!

 Even if I don't see eye to eye with you on some things such as CS's, it does not detract from the fact that I can still, and do, respect your pov.

 

I feel the same way. I like to debate. I try very hard not to get personally insulting, though some people take it that way. I'm just very passionate about some things. Gaming is one of them. I may not agree with you, and I don't expect you to agree with me, so long as it doesn't become a personal attack.

The same here - I love good old fashioned debates. But the minute a debate degenerates into personal attacks, the attacker loses all credibility and ultimately loses the argument.

Originally posted by Moirae

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by Moirae

Thank you.

My pleasure.

 I like to debate, and they can get heated at times. Why not?!

 Even if I don't see eye to eye with you on some things such as CS's, it does not detract from the fact that I can still, and do, respect your pov.

 

I feel the same way. I like to debate. I try very hard not to get personally insulting, though some people take it that way. I'm just very passionate about some things. Gaming is one of them. I may not agree with you, and I don't expect you to agree with me, so long as it doesn't become a personal attack.

 Hey we agreed on something! Agree or disagree its all good! No one should be insulting each other.

It just seems like a money grab to me.

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by Thekandy

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by Moirae

~~~~whoosh~~~~~ *watches everything she just said go completely over your head* Wow........ just.......... wow. 

 Not at all, but the 'Sky is falling!' is not very constructive or valide as it isn't in the now. So, 'wow' all you want, you still have yet to deliver a premise that can be discussed.

Are you surprised? It's clear to see that the woman is equally opinionated, arrogant and entitled just by looking at her sig.

 I don't mind the opinion, as long as it accepted as such. There is no need to condescend or denigrate anyone not of the same opinion. Forums are here to discuss these topics, exchange ideas even they become heated. :)

Being a woman has no relevance on whether her arguments are valid or not.

Originally posted by Thekandy

Originally posted by whisperwynd
 

Are you surprised? It's clear to see that the woman is equally opinionated, arrogant and entitled just by looking at her sig.

 I don't mind the opinion, as long as it accepted as such. There is no need to condescend or denigrate anyone not of the same opinion. Forums are here to discuss these topics, exchange ideas even they become heated. :)

Being a woman has no relevance on whether her arguments are valid or not.

What?

This has nothing to do with her being a woman, here, let me quote it for you and highlight the offending parts:

"Please remember something...

I'm a girl. Yes, I'm a gamer chick. (Mhm, a woman on the internets, how novel (This is sarcasm by the way before you go and weaponize that statement too)) I'm rare and unusual. (Balls to that, you are as regular as all of us) And the Moirae are the three greek goddesses of fate also known as Clotho (spinner of the thread of life), Lachesis (determine the length of the thread of life), and Atropos (cuts the thread of life). All women." (This ties in with the "Rare and unusual", comparing yourself to goddesses there, how very... grandiose)

I love how this is automatically made into a case of sexism, maybe it's easier to deflect that way for whatever reason.

  I never implied you were sexist, that was another poster.

  If you have an issue with her sig, that's ok. I never really paid attention to it until now honestly.

  Highly opinionated are common, if the debate comes to a standstill becasue one of the two parties is intransigent, so be it. I move on.

  My time is mine to waste or spend in any way I wish. :)

Originally posted by Zadawn

Originally posted by shadow9d9

It is so sad to see some fans and others try to defend this.  The new trend in everything seems to be "don't fight it because it is inevitable" and the ridiculous assumption as fact "you'll still play it anyway."

Gamers didn't fight DRM, and now there are schemes such as the upcoming Origin and Ubisoft's must login online even to play singleplayer.  Gamers aren't fighting DLC being withheld from games and released on the release date with the game separately.  

We, as consumers, have the ability to mold the future of the industry.  We control what is allowed, by showing dissatisfaction with our wallets.  When we give up on that, we give the industry more and more to the monetary interests that have no interest in games and only have interest in money.. the bottom line...what more abuses and tricks can be used to take peoples' money.  It is never too late to show dissatisfaction and refuse to buy such products.  Everything, including DRM, DLC, and cash shops, on top of subscriptions and expansions, can be stopped.

Asheron's Call had monthly updates with bug fixes, a storyline, added content, etc for free.  Look at what gamers have allowed to happen since.

 

Take a stand and ignore the fans and other interests that work to allow these abuses.

The majority of  all the gaming communities are made up of kids,which are EASY to trick,heck,it's not weven their money they spend.The devs know this and that;'s why it works.

I am pretty sure the majority of computer gamers are now in their 30s... http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2011.pdf

If they want the money so bad, they should get corporate sponsers, instead of charging the players even more than they are already paying. In this genre of game, I wouldn't mind seeing Coke billboards, Ford vehicles, Levi jeans, etc. Have the companies pay to have their products be seen in game, then players can buy vanity/useful items with in game money-that we already purchased with our subs/box sales and out time spent playing.

Originally posted by shadow9d9

Originally posted by Zadawn

Originally posted by shadow9d9

It is so sad to see some fans and others try to defend this.  The new trend in everything seems to be "don't fight it because it is inevitable" and the ridiculous assumption as fact "you'll still play it anyway."

Gamers didn't fight DRM, and now there are schemes such as the upcoming Origin and Ubisoft's must login online even to play singleplayer.  Gamers aren't fighting DLC being withheld from games and released on the release date with the game separately.  

We, as consumers, have the ability to mold the future of the industry.  We control what is allowed, by showing dissatisfaction with our wallets.  When we give up on that, we give the industry more and more to the monetary interests that have no interest in games and only have interest in money.. the bottom line...what more abuses and tricks can be used to take peoples' money.  It is never too late to show dissatisfaction and refuse to buy such products.  Everything, including DRM, DLC, and cash shops, on top of subscriptions and expansions, can be stopped.

Asheron's Call had monthly updates with bug fixes, a storyline, added content, etc for free.  Look at what gamers have allowed to happen since.

 

Take a stand and ignore the fans and other interests that work to allow these abuses.

The majority of  all the gaming communities are made up of kids,which are EASY to trick,heck,it's not weven their money they spend.The devs know this and that;'s why it works.

I am pretty sure the majority of computer gamers are now in their 30s... http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2011.pdf

can you back it up?what you provided is null,kids don't bother completing quizes and the like.

I like how more people are waking up and noticing the cash-shop greed for what it is.

Originally posted by Ceridith

I like how more people are waking up and noticing the cash-shop greed for what it is.

 When the day comes that more than enough of us see it for that, then they'll go away. I hope for this as well, but the reality is as long as they can make moneyfrom those of us willing to give them their money then all we can do is sit by the sidelines and hope.