Originally posted by EvilGeek

If I'm paying a sub I expect ALL content to be available to me, fluff is still content. If the sheeple (great word) have more money than sense then i guess companies like Funcom can carry on getting away with this kind of crap.

 

Shame on you Bill for supporting the money grabbing suits, there is no excuse. If Anet can create an awesome MMO with no sub model and a shop that wont divide players why the hell are people still thinking that sub and cash shop is ok when it clearly isnt about covering costs and is all about milking us. 

 

TSW was my 2nd most anticipated game, this announcement has made me lose all hype for the title.

ArenaNet still has to prove that it's going to work.  That hasn't happened yet and won't for about a year after release.  I expect that it will though, and it will serve to shine a bright light on all the cockroaches in this industry who are going out of their way to wring every dime out of their players by slapping a price tag on everything not nailed down.  But until that happens, expect more of the same. 

Two years from now, if everything works out with GW2, game designers may then be forced to explore other options in terms of profitting from their work, or risk having to answer uncomfortable questions about why they need to nickel and dime their players while this other game over here, is able to maintain a healthy player base by doing the opposite.  But proof is needed first and we don't have it yet.  I'm reasonably confident that we soon will though. 

In the meantime, the only thing that companies like FailCom will get from me is a flipped bird.  Until I see that ArenaNet can't make their business model work, I won't be supporting any company that is working to make the industry worse rather than better.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Zadawn

NO,a cash shop in a p2p game DOESN'T make sense at all no matter what it has for sale.Even cosmetics are bad in a p2p game.I Don't want someone's character to look cooler than mine just because he paid more,on the other hand,i don't mind if someone else's character looks cooler than mine because he played more or better than me.

TL:DR : cash shops in a p2p game is unfair and sucks.

It's all a matter of your perspective.  In my case, since MMO's were first created I've always had far more money than free time and have always resented someone else having better stuff just because they had more free time than I to play a game.

TL:DR P2P with some form of cash shop will be the absolute norm in almost every P2P title out there going forward, get used to it or find another hobby.

No buddy,you get fucking used to it or find another hobby if you don't like someone being better because they play more or better.

Vanity items. Nothing screams fun and adventure more than buying pointless cargo cult rubbish with your plus 5 Visa card of awesomeness. So I guess from now on instead of wasting monsy on MMOs and their monthly fees, I'll just go get my adventure fix by buying pointless conformist shyte at Blue Banana.

Hell with waving around heroic swords of ledgend, one of these babies are all you need to be a badass of note in the New MMO Order:

We should face the truth: The future are micro transactions and cash shops. And the future is already here. Or is there any mayor mmo game left without a cash shop ?

Yes they are immersion killers (want that item ? dingding, plz insert 5$ here)

Yes they are a complete rippoff (one time development cost, sell thousands items with no further cost at all, that mount in WOW, man, what a profit, unbelievable)

Yes, some/many items offered (depends on game) are p2w itmes

But ....

Yes, they are great money for the companies because there are so many people buying that stuff.

I am just glad I had the opportunity in the past to enjoy mmo's without any cash shop. But cash shops are a reality nowadays and they won't vanish just because some of us don't like them. Money talks. And the money lies in cash shops.

I like how people are willing to pay 15 dollars a month just to have access to an entire game. But charge them a one time fee of 5 to 10 dollars and get upset. If you use the (understandable, but I sort of disagree with) logic that you don't want to pay for content you should already have with micro transactions, then why are you so willing to spend 15 dollars a month, not getting any new content for months and months until the small changes come out. And then on top of that, page for 30-40 dollar exspansion packs.

Buy 2 Play makes sense now down. And before you play that early 2000's broken record called "Devs need the 15 dollars a month to keep the game up and get paid", thats not true anymore. It was true back in the day, but games like Guild Wars, WoW (they make a rediculouse a mount of money per player), and many many other prove its not true. Guild Wars has made millions with box sales alone. They're doing well enough to be able to run successfully while p2p games before and long after it are falling a part around it. Not to mention they've also got enough man power to work on Guild Wars 2 (man power costs money). So the b2p model works. But devs would make generic MMOs (with new paint, sure) tend to make generic choices. Or maybe its up to the publishers in the end.

I'm down for a cash shop, but not a monthly fee. About 3 years ago, I would have been fine with a monthly fee. But time have changed. They've changed more than 3 years ago. 15 dollars a month for a game just doesn't make sense anymore.

So yeah, I'd like the option of spending 5 dollars on a cool outfit (assuming I can customize it, but thats another story). And then skipping over the other cash shop items because I simply don't want it. I'd rahter do this and end up spending either nothing to 20-30 dollars a year. That sounds much better than paying 180 dollars each year. Not including box/paid exspansions of course.

Originally posted by Zadawn

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Zadawn

NO,a cash shop in a p2p game DOESN'T make sense at all no matter what it has for sale.Even cosmetics are bad in a p2p game.I Don't want someone's character to look cooler than mine just because he paid more,on the other hand,i don't mind if someone else's character looks cooler than mine because he played more or better than me.

TL:DR : cash shops in a p2p game is unfair and sucks.

It's all a matter of your perspective.  In my case, since MMO's were first created I've always had far more money than free time and have always resented someone else having better stuff just because they had more free time than I to play a game.

TL:DR P2P with some form of cash shop will be the absolute norm in almost every P2P title out there going forward, get used to it or find another hobby.

No buddy,you get fucking used to it or find another hobby if you don't like someone being better because they play more or better.

Funny how rude and defensive some poeple get when the truth is spoken. Kyleran is correct. The future of MMo pricing models will be and ALREADY is a cash shop. That does not mean we have to like it but it does mean that we have to make a decision - either accept it and play the game or do not. its really that simple.

Its fine to stand on principle but that does not change the trend or change the fact that cash shops are very to stay. Why? because there is a market for it and there are gamers that are okay with it. The issue, currently, is figuring out what extent gamers will go with a cash shop (as discussed in my earlier post). That is debate now.

As far as the Guild Wars 2 model works, we will wait and see. I hope it works and wish the game and the devs the best. I am skeptical of the model but unlike most, I will reserve judgment until I see it in action.

I personally dont have an issue with cash shops as Ive rarely used them. I just play the game for what it is. If you dont like what a game company is doing then simply dont play the game. Vote with your wallet.  Remember though it not for anyone else to say how a person should spend thier money if they want to use the shop. The cash shops are simply an option if you want to use it.

Cash shops are a way for the companys to keep the game running, pay employees, and expenses. If they had to depend on gamer's charity im sure over half of the games listed on this site wouldve gone under long time ago. 

I dont knock people for questioning the possible P2W style as long as thier arguments have merit and not throwing out the P2W title when it isnt like in Eve Online's case.

***Raving Rabbid dances with Kate Beckensale***

Honestly if P2P companies feel they aren't pulling down enough revenue per customer, I'd much rather they just raise the box price or the price of a monthly sub then pull this cash shop stuff. I really don't mind paying $20 a month rather then $10-15, that's still a good entertainment buy for a quality MMO.

I DO mind having real world considerations, like making a purchase with real money, entering in real world credit card info or jumping out of the game to a cash shop. When I'm in the game, I just want to think about playing the game, nothing else.....and I certainly don't want to play some gimped version where you have to grind for hours for something but you can buy it instantly for real cash....that just makes for a crappy game mechanic. Just double the price of the game....and loose the cash shop. I'd be fine with that instead.

Originally posted by jinxxed0

I like how people are willing to pay 15 dollars a month just to have access to an entire game. But charge them a one time fee of 5 to 10 dollars and get upset. If you use the (understandable, but I sort of disagree with) logic that you don't want to pay for content you should already have with micro transactions, then why are you so willing to spend 15 dollars a month, not getting any new content for months and months until the small changes come out. And then on top of that, page for 30-40 dollar exspansion packs.

 

Buy 2 Play makes sense now down. And before you play that early 2000's broken record called "Devs need the 15 dollars a month to keep the game up and get paid", thats not true anymore. It was true back in the day, but games like Guild Wars, WoW (they make a rediculouse a mount of money per player), and many many other prove its not true. Guild Wars has made millions with box sales alone. They're doing well enough to be able to run successfully while p2p games before and long after it are falling a part around it. Not to mention they've also got enough man power to work on Guild Wars 2 (man power costs money). So the b2p model works. But devs would make generic MMOs (with new paint, sure) tend to make generic choices. Or maybe its up to the publishers in the end.

 

I'm down for a cash shop, but not a monthly fee. About 3 years ago, I would have been fine with a monthly fee. But time have changed. They've changed more than 3 years ago. 15 dollars a month for a game just doesn't make sense anymore.

 

So yeah, I'd like the option of spending 5 dollars on a cool outfit (assuming I can customize it, but thats another story). And then skipping over the other cash shop items because I simply don't want it. I'd rahter do this and end up spending either nothing to 20-30 dollars a year. That sounds much better than paying 180 dollars each year. Not including box/paid exspansions of course.

You ARE aware that the business model that we're debating here is monthly payment + cash shop? I dont think that people have any problems with cash shop only games...

My feeling is that a subscription based game should not have a cash stop. I just don't see the justification for it. Games that are free to play, I perfectly understand the need for one. But adding a cash shop to a sub based game is just greed, pure and simple.

Basically we are talking with TSW

1. Full-price box/download purchase.

2. AAA-title sub.

3. In-game cash shop.

Funcom are aiming  initially with the Blizzard model for online games. Let's be honest here folks Funcom are just nickle and diming their players on this one. SW:TOR is going to be game purchase plus triple AAA sub, and GW2 is going to be game purchase. Funcom goes the whole hog by aiming for the launch day cash shop. They only have to add-in a cash-based auction house and they will have gone as far as Blizzard have with online gaming.

Yeash...it makes you sick.

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

 

Cash shops are a way for the companys to keep the game running, pay employees, and expenses

And yet another one that eats the S..T

Yeah they have to make money somehow considering you only pretend you pay a sub after you've already pretended you bought the boxed version.

Originally posted by Illyssia

Basically we are talking with TSW

1. Full-price box/download purchase.

2. AAA-title sub.

3. In-game cash shop.

Funcom are aiming  initially with the Blizzard model for online games. Let's be honest here folks Funcom are just nickle and diming their players on this one. SW:TOR is going to be game purchase plus triple AAA sub, and GW2 is going to be game purchase. Funcom goes the whole hog by aiming for the launch day cash shop. They only have to add-in a cash-based auction house and they will have gone as far as Blizzard have with online gaming.

Yeash...it makes you sick.

What are they thinking? You never go full blizzard, never...

Originally posted by Flinor

Originally posted by Senadina

Clothes should be purchased in the game with in-game money. I don't see why it makes any sense, in any game, to charge me for content that should be included in the game.

But props for a Dio reference.

Totally agree! Whatever happened to in-game currency? If my character lives in a made-up virtual world , he will pay for his clothes with made-up virtual money, damn it ! :)

 

I agree with these, however, I dont have a prob with a cash shop so long as any and everything sold in it is attainable by me in-game without spending money.

I am ok with people spending their real life money to save their real life time if thats what they want to do. As long as my monthly sub fee still grants me access to everything in the game.

  I have played FTP and PTP and on the average I payed way more using Item shop thats why i'm never playing FTP again its a scam to me all desighned ot take your money on tyhe average I paid way more then 14.99 a month.

Cash shops aren't going anywhere folks, sorry you all hate them so much!

I wouldn't really say that a cash shop makes sense, but hey, if morons with nothing better to spend their money on want to waste it, more power to them. I dont like cosmetic outfits, so I could care less. That said, if the cash shop starts carrying items that are essential to game play, then I will have a problem. I wont pay a monthly subscription only to have to pay more money to buy items I'll need in the game.

P2P + cash shop = no play for me. 

Shame I liked what the game was offering.  Guess I'll wait until the game tanks and goes f2p with cash shop.  I have nothing against cash shops but double dipping in my book is terrible.

I do not understand the EA reference.  Has something changed other then them being the publisher in NA?  Everything else is going to run through Funcom like normal, I highly doubt they have any say in anything this game does.

Originally posted by Zadawn

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

 

Cash shops are a way for the companys to keep the game running, pay employees, and expenses

And yet another one that eats the S..T

 

Yeah they have to make money somehow considering you only pretend you pay a sub after you've already pretended you bought the boxed version.

 Do you not know of how business works? Box version and subs can take you a ways, but only so far. Cash doesnt grow on trees. If the subs are going down for whatever reason you need to come up with a way to continue the income flow. Cash shops are a way to do this.  Im not for or against cash shops in general, but a company has to be able stay in busniess.