Buy a game - 50$ / 50€

P2P - 15$ / 15€ per month

Cash Shop - Want to look badass? look in the cash shop, it's for sale for a small 1 time fee, 10$ / 10€, or how about a cool looking mount? ONLY 20$ / 20€

Not to forget that these vanity items sometimes comes with in-game advantages, such as not having to spend in game currency on mounts, on 1 or even several characters, a small advantage, an advantage nontheless.

The "Next Gen" that the Devs does not want you to know about, full on pay to win, disguised in fancy systems and names, a long with all of the above.

When will this stop?

How far can they take this before we say something?

Are gamers the most gullible people on earth, or are we just that addicted to the feeling of achievement in a virtual world, that we are willing to pay whatever is asked?

Games starting to turn "F2P" without actually being free, sure you can play most of them for nothing, but they'll exclude you from half the content, or make you look like a clown, while having people willing to spend look like they could kill you by looking at you.

It is understandable that game companies are just that, a company, designed to make money by delivering software for our enjoyment and thus have to turn a profit.

But F2P games in the past was just that, they were free to play, they had a cash shop, and that was it.

But that's not enough now, now they want you to pay both a sub and throw money away in the shop.

The reason we see a lot of games turning to the so called "F2P" is because it works! They get tons of both new and old gamers to come into their game, some of these gamers will quickly turn away from the game when they figure that it is actually not as free as initially proclaimed, others will settle with what is offered for free, but at the expense of FUN!

There are dusins of ways they can make your gaming experience under par than that of the subscribers. (Wait what?! subscribers in a f2p game).

Would we have accepted this 2 years ago? Hell no! So why now? They keep pushing the limit of our acceptance.

How far will this go?

Do or don't care?

Let me know what you guys think about this trend and why.

I don't mind a buy to play game with a vanity shop, because with my primary example being Guild Wars and soon GW2, there's already enough options for me to look bad ass with no "advantages" obtainable through the cash shop.

People want to take the easy route.  Being able to pay to win is a simple way for many people to beat a game.  It's far to attractive than actually doing hard work to earn items.

What do we get from an offline game? A few days fun and if we are lucky a few minor patces fixing some problems within the game. After that the game is over. IF we are lucky an expantion comes out or a sequel for which we are paying fully for.

While sub-based games, FTP (btw global agenda to pick one gives you 100% access to all content 100% free of charge) and item store games offer content updates , bug and ballance fixes. Though at some point for most expantions we do have to pay.

Lineage2 is an great excample of a game that offered full sized expantions for free.

"Saying" means nothing, "doing" means everything. As long as people pay for it it will continue. You, me, nor anyone else can make those people stop buying.

I also think its pretty ridiculous. When WoW started offering vanity items on their online store it made me sick. I pay a subscription and to top that off now i have to spend more on something that i shouldnt have to? People can use that "its only for vanity" argument all day and it still doesnt matter. Fact is you pay monthly to play a game that you dont have access to everything because of greed.

I miss the days of Diablo and games like it. "Buy to play" these games were patched pretty often and amazing. Then you bring in DLC which is how all this nonsense actually started.

Spend an extra dollar for a gun that could have easily been patched into the game? really? screw you.

All this has only recently pushed me back into single player games and it angers and saddens me because i love playing online.

The good thing is i get to enjoy finishing a bunch of games i never ended up beating before cuz i switched over to the online games. Now im having fun enjoying the best single player games ever.

Thankfully OnLive also offers me a very cool social aspect to single player games. =)

Originally posted by Distopia2

"Saying" means nothing, "doing" means everything. As long as people pay for it it will continue. You, me, nor anyone else can make those people stop buying.

You're correct.

While I will be voting with my wallet personally, I think we need to have more discussions on these kind of issues, and raise awareness, so that new gamers coming into the genre knows that this is not how it should be.

Someone mentioned Expansions, which I had forgot all about in the opening post, throw that on top of everything else.

Now I know that some games still do make free expansions, but the genre as a whole, is moving in the wrong direction.

Game Companies slap a "F2P" tag on their games, and all of a sudden it's alright to have both subscription and a cash shop.

This might just end up being an expensive hobby in the future.

I think the f2p trend is a great improvement over previous buisness models that are designed to make a profit on release then die slowly while sucking subscriptions. It beats the hell out of most types of "free trials". The game trying to sustain itself instead of boom and bust (see the release of warhammer, aion, aoc, etc) forces a massive improvement in quality and continuous updates.

On the other hand the microtransactions model is poorly implemented in many games. Pay2win is more common than pay4convience/pay4aesthetics. Underhanded tactics are also pretty common.

The last trend was unfinished wow-like games that required $50 for a 15 day trial then a monthly sub to play. The new trend is wow-like games with constant easily produced content and ads for microtransactions. Oh yeah and the grind is harder/easier depending on your prefrence and wallet size.

Consumers are standing up for themselves. They are bellying up to the bar and buying all the stuff they want. *shrug*

Some are just too blank to see what is happening (channel zero), others shrug it off as unimportant (channel ignorance), while others again find excuses and arguments they mindlessly repeat in order to convince themselves (channel religion).

If I write a page of reasons and explanations, the latter will disect any sentence and turn it against me, so I will just write these sentences.

Jouney is everything, goal is nothing. Easy come easy go. Why do you play games ?.

MMORPG consumers will never stand up in the way you are wanting them to. If anything, it will only get worse.

Originally posted by Beazt

How far will this go?

Do or don't care?

Let me know what you guys think about this trend and why.

 

I don't care. If someone got extra money to burn it is their business. Do i go around telling people in real life how and where to spend their money? nope. People need to mind their own business.

Originally posted by Beazt

Originally posted by Distopia2

"Saying" means nothing, "doing" means everything. As long as people pay for it it will continue. You, me, nor anyone else can make those people stop buying.

You're correct.

 

While I will be voting with my wallet personally, I think we need to have more discussions on these kind of issues, and raise awareness, so that new gamers coming into the genre knows that this is not how it should be.

 

Someone mentioned Expansions, which I had forgot all about in the opening post, throw that on top of everything else.

Now I know that some games still do make free expansions, but the genre as a whole, is moving in the wrong direction.

Game Companies slap a "F2P" tag on their games, and all of a sudden it's alright to have both subscription and a cash shop.

 

This might just end up being an expensive hobby in the future.

This is a voluntary market, in which people pay freely.  This is also a fiercely competitive market, in which there are numerous suppliers.

Prices can stay up only because people are voluntarily buying.  You cannot presume that these are being fooled, unwise or whatever.  That is not for us to decide.  Everyone watch over his own wallet.

While I can appreciate you zeal to be a crusador, I think you hit the wrong market.  Crimes deserve more attention than petty games.

As a matter of note, cost of production of AAA MMOs are significant.  Sub prices and box price has hardly changed enough to compensate, but that, is the result of market competition, nothing conspiracy or whatever.

Is $15/month an expensive hobby, is $60 a month expensive, not for me.  I spend more than that a day if I have to buy my family a dinner.  Relative to other forms of entertainment, sub fees are still dirt cheap.

Originally posted by Beazt

How far will this go?

Do or don't care?

Let me know what you guys think about this trend and why.

The only real vote a player gets is with their wallet.  As long as players vote yes by whipping out a credit card, the trend will continue.

I don't like it the trend, but then again nobody with power to make a design choice has ever asked me what I think.  Nor in my estimation do they care what I think.

For me the bottom line is that there needs to be other options that subscriptions for minor games in the market.  The best they've found (to their liking) is expensive cash shop items ranging from, "pay to look cool", "pay to level faster", or the dreaded "pay to win".  Other things are "pay to get to places that only paying people can get to" and "pay to unlock a couple levels".

So far my favorite is GW with "box to play" and then "pay to look cool" along with "pay to unlock skills and pets".  The problem with that is there is no unlimited duration free access, which gimps the business model compared to "free to play".

Is there a good answer?  If so I sure don't know about it.  I'm more than open to suggestions.  At the moment my own work is flat out "free" with advertising driven revenue (buy from my sponsors because it helps keep the game running).  No clue if that will work or not.  If it doesn't... deal with that later.

Originally posted by Beazt

Buy a game - 50$ / 50€

P2P - 15$ / 15€ per month

Cash Shop - Want to look badass? look in the cash shop, it's for sale for a small 1 time fee, 10$ / 10€, or how about a cool looking mount? ONLY 20$ / 20€

 

Not to forget that these vanity items sometimes comes with in-game advantages, such as not having to spend in game currency on mounts, on 1 or even several characters, a small advantage, an advantage nontheless.

The "Next Gen" that the Devs does not want you to know about, full on pay to win, disguised in fancy systems and names, a long with all of the above.

 

When will this stop?

How far can they take this before we say something?

Are gamers the most gullible people on earth, or are we just that addicted to the feeling of achievement in a virtual world, that we are willing to pay whatever is asked?

 

Games starting to turn "F2P" without actually being free, sure you can play most of them for nothing, but they'll exclude you from half the content, or make you look like a clown, while having people willing to spend look like they could kill you by looking at you.

 

It is understandable that game companies are just that, a company, designed to make money by delivering software for our enjoyment and thus have to turn a profit.

But F2P games in the past was just that, they were free to play, they had a cash shop, and that was it.

But that's not enough now, now they want you to pay both a sub and throw money away in the shop.

 

The reason we see a lot of games turning to the so called "F2P" is because it works! They get tons of both new and old gamers to come into their game, some of these gamers will quickly turn away from the game when they figure that it is actually not as free as initially proclaimed, others will settle with what is offered for free, but at the expense of FUN!

There are dusins of ways they can make your gaming experience under par than that of the subscribers. (Wait what?! subscribers in a f2p game).

 

Would we have accepted this 2 years ago? Hell no! So why now? They keep pushing the limit of our acceptance.

 

How far will this go?

Do or don't care?

Let me know what you guys think about this trend and why.

 

Would who have accepted this 2-years ago?  If goes beyond just the past 2 years.  It will never stop.  It will become more pervasive.  The reason why there is this epidemic of F2P games is because the studios are manned by moronic game developers that were dumb enough to design crappy products that never warranted a subscription.

The ignorant, not because they're stupid, but because they dont know anything else or anything better, have not experienced a robust quality massively-multiplaer online RPG in the last several years.  So, these folks that buy into mmorpg's today dont know any better, but to expect to play a single-player rpg lobby-system game or MOBA. 

Player and community-centric mmorpgs are dead.

It's the consumer mentality.  I don't care how much money I have, or how much I want something, if I feel I am getting ripped off, I won't buy it, period.

It's the principle.  If you have principled buyers, that keeps companies honest, and is good for all consumers.

Reality is, the majority of consumers don't care about the value of their money, as long as commercials stroke their wants enough, they'll pay for the privilege just to pay more.  Or pay the same to get less and feel superior to cheapskates like me who won't.  Oh well.

Personally, I am waiting to see the prices for TOR to hit.  150 CE + cash shop + sub price.  I wonder if the success of the CE will prompt them to up the monthly fee to something like 19.99.  As a business man, I find it really, really hard not to...these people are practically throwing their money at EA.

Originally posted by ActionMMORPG

Originally posted by Beazt

How far will this go?

Do or don't care?

Let me know what you guys think about this trend and why.

 

The only real vote a player gets is with their wallet.  As long as players vote yes by whipping out a credit card, the trend will continue.

 

I don't like it the trend, but then again nobody with power to make a design choice has ever asked me what I think.  Nor in my estimation do they care what I think.

 

For me the bottom line is that there needs to be other options that subscriptions for minor games in the market.  The best they've found (to their liking) is expensive cash shop items ranging from, "pay to look cool", "pay to level faster", or the dreaded "pay to win".  Other things are "pay to get to places that only paying people can get to" and "pay to unlock a couple levels".

 

So far my favorite is GW with "box to play" and then "pay to look cool" along with "pay to unlock skills and pets".  The problem with that is there is no unlimited duration free access, which gimps the business model compared to "free to play".

 

Is there a good answer?  If so I sure don't know about it.  I'm more than open to suggestions.  At the moment my own work is flat out "free" with advertising driven revenue (buy from my sponsors because it helps keep the game running).  No clue if that will work or not.  If it doesn't... deal with that later.

Not exactly true.

Producers want to know what customers want.  Hence the market research project of various types.  Billions of dollars are spent every year in serious polls (not the kind here), ad tracing, face2face, penal studies, passive observations you name it.

The results of these study represent a compromise of the "measured" or "observed" preference of the customers being studied.  The end result seldom match the preference of any single person, but rather represent a profile trying to attract enough people, the more the merrier.

By the way, it is not always wise to directly ask what a consumer wants.  Imagine asking people if they want porn, drinking or gambling.  That is why sometimes we never feel the hideous hand or hideous eyes of the market researchers.  They never ask you, maybe, but they care and they are trying to study selected members of us, always.

OP you'll get the common answer " Vote with your wallet" which is totally viable.  Its the best answer really. 

But players have stood up for themselves and the games they loved for a long long time.  EvE just recently had protests.  Flooding of the Jita system so I heard, online petitions, and a whole lot of hateraide sipping. 

Star Wars Galaxies had its own protests.  I remember hearing something about large mass protests and the devs actually somehow transporting players into space who were protesting.   

But players do get ticked off, they do vote with their wallets, but they do a whole lot more when they feel they are getting skrewed over.  Usually the devs notice.   As far as 50 bucks for a game box?  More than acceptable.  I think monthly fees may be at the start of moving out the door.  Cash shops are on the way in.  Both at the same time?  A loose / loose for everyone. 

But if you think most gamers are a sheepish lot you couldnt be more mistaken.  Not only will they stop playing, but they're more than capable of also creating such a **** storm of epic proportions that they can occasionally cause developers to panic. 

The players have the ultimate control.  The customers.  Without them?  The game cant survive.  And most customers know it.  So do most developers. 

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin
...

 

Would we have accepted this 2 years ago? Hell no! So why now? They keep pushing the limit of our acceptance.

 

How far will this go?

Do or don't care?

Let me know what you guys think about this trend and why.

 

Would who have accepted this 2-years ago?  If goes beyond just the past 2 years.  It will never stop.  It will become more pervasive.  The reason why there is this epidemic of F2P games is because the studios are manned by moronic game developers that were dumb enough to design crappy products that never warranted a subscription.

 

The ignorant, not because they're stupid, but because they dont know anything else or anything better, have not experienced a robust quality massively-multiplaer online RPG in the last several years.  So, these folks that buy into mmorpg's today dont know any better, but to expect to play a single-player rpg lobby-system game or MOBA. 

 

Player and community-centric mmorpgs are dead.

F2P games = moronic developers?

TV was free for decades till cable TVs.  Yahoo and Google is still free, they are moronic?

Free to whatever just means they got their revenue elsewhere.  Maybe it is just not efficient to charge you, because of administrative costs.  Maybe it is not worth charging you because of the nickel and dime tendency of a majority of you.  Maybe none of us knows what they are really doing.

Gamer: This game is buggy....you need to hire more devs to fix this game!

Gamer: I'm bored, I need more content...you need to hire more people to write content.

Gamer: The server crashed, you need to buy better servers.

Gamer: I have an trouble-ticket that hasnt' been answered...you need to hire more GM's to help me.

Gamer: We haven't had an expansion in a year, you need to release an expansion!

Developer: Ok we need more money, all those things are expensive.  Here is a mount you can buy for $10 bucks.

Gamer: OMG! YOU MONEY GRUBBING WEASELS! All you care about is profit anymore. Screw you all. /ragequit

My 2 cents:  A game that is profitable will stay online longer.  A game that loses money, won't.  If you like your mmo, be glad they're making money off it.