Richard you really need to preface your acronym with the actual name as the majority of readers here probably are not going to be familiar with what DOTA means, this is a MMO forum.

That said these MOBA's are a dime a dozen and people only play them until the next one hits.  Anyone expecting long term income of any kind from a game like this, is living in a fantasy world.

Originally posted by UrzaElent

Originally posted by jpnz

 

I'd disagree.

The reason LoL will be fine is that those who haven't played the original 'Dota' found 'DOTA' type games through LoL.

LoL has the largest concentration of new-DOTA players.

It is a bit like WoW. Everyone and their dog's first MMO is WoW. It is just how it is.

I doubt people will suddenly move to DOTA because they have LoL.

Despite all the new things other non-WoW MMOs brought to the market, people just didn't 'mass exodus' from WoW.

 

I think DOTA2 will do well and I can definitely see a large portion of the WAR3-DOTA community moving across. LoL though? Not really.

 Except for the fact that blizzards games arent broken from day one and stay that way for years on end. Oh and I also dont recall blizz breaking their own client with EVERY SINGLE week either. How about the fact that blizz actually makes its players abide by their rules of conduct? Gee, maybe thats just a few of the reasons why players have stayed with WoW? Blizzards knows what it is doing maybe?

As a former WoW/current Starcraft2 player, I can tell from personal experience that the above post is NOT true.

Ask any former WoW what happened on 'patch' tuesday and how long it lasted.

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by UrzaElent

Originally posted by jpnz

 

I'd disagree.

The reason LoL will be fine is that those who haven't played the original 'Dota' found 'DOTA' type games through LoL.

LoL has the largest concentration of new-DOTA players.

It is a bit like WoW. Everyone and their dog's first MMO is WoW. It is just how it is.

I doubt people will suddenly move to DOTA because they have LoL.

Despite all the new things other non-WoW MMOs brought to the market, people just didn't 'mass exodus' from WoW.

 

I think DOTA2 will do well and I can definitely see a large portion of the WAR3-DOTA community moving across. LoL though? Not really.

 Except for the fact that blizzards games arent broken from day one and stay that way for years on end. Oh and I also dont recall blizz breaking their own client with EVERY SINGLE week either. How about the fact that blizz actually makes its players abide by their rules of conduct? Gee, maybe thats just a few of the reasons why players have stayed with WoW? Blizzards knows what it is doing maybe?

As a former WoW/current Starcraft2 player, I can tell from personal experience that the above post is NOT true.

Ask any former WoW what happened on 'patch' tuesday and how long it lasted.

 You want to ask a WoW player? Well, here is one since beta and at no time whatsoever do I ever recall Blizzard epic failing like Riot does just about EVERY SINGLE WEEK. And the few times that issues have come up this is what happens......

1. Blizzard actually says there is a problem up front and right off the bat. None of this Riot bullshit of posting that the game is up and running while thousands of players are posting all over the forums that the client is broken.... again.

2. Blizzard actually keeps their playerbase informed as to what the problem is and exactly what they are doing to fix it with realistic time frames which they almost always meet or pretty damn close. Unlike Riot, which usually either A) totally pretends that nothing is wrong till usually hours have gone by an their forums have turned into a moshpit of pitchfork wielding players. Or B) They post some half ass post basically saying they have no idea what the hell is going on then leave everyone in the dark for hours and with their last epic fail I belive it was almost a full day of little to no updates at all.

3. And finally, unlike Riot, Blizzard actually FIXES the problem. I'm sorry but anyone that has played LoL for any length of time will tell you that they have the absolute worst client and servers ever and the problems are only getting worst not better.

And frankly anyone that compares the kinds of stress that Blizzards WoW servers have to go through on a daily basis to that of LoL is just laughable at best.  I belive at last count Blizzard had 236 realms with each realm running 6 servers at a grand total of 1416 servers...... and thats just for the US alone. Unfortunately, I couldnt really find any hard numbers on just how many servers Riot has..... but I did find this video which pretty much sums up just how the LoL playerbase feels about Riots handling of what servers they do have, lmao!

Enjoy, ;).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yYzsdBzzho

Originally posted by UrzaElent

 

 You want to ask a WoW player? Well, here is one since beta and at no time whatsoever do I ever recall Blizzard epic failing like Riot does just about EVERY SINGLE WEEK. And the few times that issues have come up this is what happens......

1. Blizzard actually says there is a problem up front and right off the bat. None of this Riot bullshit of posting that the game is up and running while thousands of players are posting all over the forums that the client is broken.... again.

2. Blizzard actually keeps their playerbase informed as to what the problem is and exactly what they are doing to fix it with realistic time frames which they almost always meet or pretty damn close. Unlike Riot, which usually either A) totally pretends that nothing is wrong till usually hours have gone by an their forums have turned into a moshpit of pitchfork wielding players. Or B) They post some half ass post basically saying they have no idea what the hell is going on then leave everyone in the dark for hours and with their last epic fail I belive it was almost a full day of little to no updates at all.

3. And finally, unlike Riot, Blizzard actually FIXES the problem. I'm sorry but anyone that has played LoL for any length of time will tell you that they have the absolute worst client and servers ever and the problems are only getting worst not better.

And frankly anyone that compares the kinds of stress that Blizzards WoW servers have to go through on a daily basis to that of LoL is just laughable at best.  I belive at last count Blizzard had 236 realms with each realm running 6 servers at a grand total of 1416 servers...... and thats just for the US alone. Unfortunately, I couldnt really find any hard numbers on just how many servers Riot has..... but I did find this video which pretty much sums up just how the LoL playerbase feels about Riots handling of what servers they do have, lmao!

Enjoy, ;).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yYzsdBzzho

In terms of sheer players, LoL has WoW beat actually.

I'm not a fan of Riot or Blizzard but from an objectivity point of view, both had their technical issues and both had their comm issues. But in terms of community, WAR3 DOTA community is really really awful for a new player.

LoL community is not the best but at least it is people/players know what to expect. You see a level 2 LoL player and you know what's what. 

Not in WAR3 DOTA .

Looking at my current +9000 posistion 30minutes queue time to log into LoL, I feel more confident on the success of DOTA2, and will be playing it instead upon release.

In my opinion if it has no masteries and runes and something more unique then it will end up like hon while LOL will keep conquering the dota style enviroment

1 of 3 gamers with 57% of them buying 1 item/month = ~18% of gamers buying 1 item per month.

Number obscuring attempt fail

Originally posted by UrzaElent

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by UrzaElent

Originally posted by jpnz

 

I'd disagree.

The reason LoL will be fine is that those who haven't played the original 'Dota' found 'DOTA' type games through LoL.

LoL has the largest concentration of new-DOTA players.

It is a bit like WoW. Everyone and their dog's first MMO is WoW. It is just how it is.

I doubt people will suddenly move to DOTA because they have LoL.

Despite all the new things other non-WoW MMOs brought to the market, people just didn't 'mass exodus' from WoW.

 

I think DOTA2 will do well and I can definitely see a large portion of the WAR3-DOTA community moving across. LoL though? Not really.

 Except for the fact that blizzards games arent broken from day one and stay that way for years on end. Oh and I also dont recall blizz breaking their own client with EVERY SINGLE week either. How about the fact that blizz actually makes its players abide by their rules of conduct? Gee, maybe thats just a few of the reasons why players have stayed with WoW? Blizzards knows what it is doing maybe?

As a former WoW/current Starcraft2 player, I can tell from personal experience that the above post is NOT true.

Ask any former WoW what happened on 'patch' tuesday and how long it lasted.

 You want to ask a WoW player? Well, here is one since beta and at no time whatsoever do I ever recall Blizzard epic failing like Riot does just about EVERY SINGLE WEEK. And the few times that issues have come up this is what happens......

1. Blizzard actually says there is a problem up front and right off the bat. None of this Riot bullshit of posting that the game is up and running while thousands of players are posting all over the forums that the client is broken.... again.

2. Blizzard actually keeps their playerbase informed as to what the problem is and exactly what they are doing to fix it with realistic time frames which they almost always meet or pretty damn close. Unlike Riot, which usually either A) totally pretends that nothing is wrong till usually hours have gone by an their forums have turned into a moshpit of pitchfork wielding players. Or B) They post some half ass post basically saying they have no idea what the hell is going on then leave everyone in the dark for hours and with their last epic fail I belive it was almost a full day of little to no updates at all.

3. And finally, unlike Riot, Blizzard actually FIXES the problem. I'm sorry but anyone that has played LoL for any length of time will tell you that they have the absolute worst client and servers ever and the problems are only getting worst not better.

And frankly anyone that compares the kinds of stress that Blizzards WoW servers have to go through on a daily basis to that of LoL is just laughable at best.  I belive at last count Blizzard had 236 realms with each realm running 6 servers at a grand total of 1416 servers...... and thats just for the US alone. Unfortunately, I couldnt really find any hard numbers on just how many servers Riot has..... but I did find this video which pretty much sums up just how the LoL playerbase feels about Riots handling of what servers they do have, lmao!

Enjoy, ;).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yYzsdBzzho

 

 Ahh... If you claim to be a player from beta you really do have some seriously red glasses. Those are beyond rose.

WoW suffered endlessly with its release server problems. You may have been lucky and picked a server that was not severely impacted, but I know at release and for the year following release the game was in a pretty bad state as far as stability and reliability with some servers having queue times in the hours and plenty of server crashes.

The type of game itself mitigated much of the impacts as well.

I play LoL quite regularly. And the client and servers have gotten much much much better. Yes, there were some issues that persisted and caused quite a fuss. But honestly Riot has gotten better about communications of issues as well as setting expectations. Anyone who believes otherwise is just a hater or troll.

Just take a look back in time. Blizzard did exactly the same thing Riot did after release of WoW. Riot isn't doing a bad job. And its growing at a blinding pace. A year ago there was no competative scene for the game and it was a joke to think of LoL as having any pro players. Now its at damn near every major gaming event.

Put a hint of thought and perspective into the picture and you can see things for what they are and not blurred by troll bait or hate.

Originally posted by NightCloak

Originally posted by UrzaElent

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by UrzaElent

Originally posted by jpnz

 

I'd disagree.

The reason LoL will be fine is that those who haven't played the original 'Dota' found 'DOTA' type games through LoL.

LoL has the largest concentration of new-DOTA players.

It is a bit like WoW. Everyone and their dog's first MMO is WoW. It is just how it is.

I doubt people will suddenly move to DOTA because they have LoL.

Despite all the new things other non-WoW MMOs brought to the market, people just didn't 'mass exodus' from WoW.

 

I think DOTA2 will do well and I can definitely see a large portion of the WAR3-DOTA community moving across. LoL though? Not really.

 Except for the fact that blizzards games arent broken from day one and stay that way for years on end. Oh and I also dont recall blizz breaking their own client with EVERY SINGLE week either. How about the fact that blizz actually makes its players abide by their rules of conduct? Gee, maybe thats just a few of the reasons why players have stayed with WoW? Blizzards knows what it is doing maybe?

As a former WoW/current Starcraft2 player, I can tell from personal experience that the above post is NOT true.

Ask any former WoW what happened on 'patch' tuesday and how long it lasted.

 You want to ask a WoW player? Well, here is one since beta and at no time whatsoever do I ever recall Blizzard epic failing like Riot does just about EVERY SINGLE WEEK. And the few times that issues have come up this is what happens......

1. Blizzard actually says there is a problem up front and right off the bat. None of this Riot bullshit of posting that the game is up and running while thousands of players are posting all over the forums that the client is broken.... again.

2. Blizzard actually keeps their playerbase informed as to what the problem is and exactly what they are doing to fix it with realistic time frames which they almost always meet or pretty damn close. Unlike Riot, which usually either A) totally pretends that nothing is wrong till usually hours have gone by an their forums have turned into a moshpit of pitchfork wielding players. Or B) They post some half ass post basically saying they have no idea what the hell is going on then leave everyone in the dark for hours and with their last epic fail I belive it was almost a full day of little to no updates at all.

3. And finally, unlike Riot, Blizzard actually FIXES the problem. I'm sorry but anyone that has played LoL for any length of time will tell you that they have the absolute worst client and servers ever and the problems are only getting worst not better.

And frankly anyone that compares the kinds of stress that Blizzards WoW servers have to go through on a daily basis to that of LoL is just laughable at best.  I belive at last count Blizzard had 236 realms with each realm running 6 servers at a grand total of 1416 servers...... and thats just for the US alone. Unfortunately, I couldnt really find any hard numbers on just how many servers Riot has..... but I did find this video which pretty much sums up just how the LoL playerbase feels about Riots handling of what servers they do have, lmao!

Enjoy, ;).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yYzsdBzzho

 

 Ahh... If you claim to be a player from beta you really do have some seriously red glasses. Those are beyond rose.

WoW suffered endlessly with its release server problems. You may have been lucky and picked a server that was not severely impacted, but I know at release and for the year following release the game was in a pretty bad state as far as stability and reliability with some servers having queue times in the hours and plenty of server crashes.

The type of game itself mitigated much of the impacts as well.

I play LoL quite regularly. And the client and servers have gotten much much much better. Yes, there were some issues that persisted and caused quite a fuss. But honestly Riot has gotten better about communications of issues as well as setting expectations. Anyone who believes otherwise is just a hater or troll.

Just take a look back in time. Blizzard did exactly the same thing Riot did after release of WoW. Riot isn't doing a bad job. And its growing at a blinding pace. A year ago there was no competative scene for the game and it was a joke to think of LoL as having any pro players. Now its at damn near every major gaming event.

Put a hint of thought and perspective into the picture and you can see things for what they are and not blurred by troll bait or hate.

 lol, love stuff like this. For one Blizz main issue at release was that everyone and their freaking brother bought the game. No one and I mean no one could have guess just how freaking huge that first release was gonna be. At least Blizz did the right thing and pulled the game long enough to get more servers online to get caught up with the demand. Anyone that compares how stable Blizzards servers are compared to Riots knows this is a joke.  So, how about your take your fanboy Riot approved glasses off before you talk shit kiddo.

For the rest of you out here the argurment is really simple to resolve. These Riot drone fanboys will kiss ass as long as Riots around so you'll never get any decent info out of them. Just take a casual stroll through LoLs general and support forums. After about 1 min just reading the titles of the topic threads alone you'll see just how epic fail Riot is and just the kind of playerbase they got, lol. Please, dont take my word alone for it.

Frankly, the saddest part out of all of this is that LoL is actually a pretty fun and well put together game. The gameplay is well rounded for the most part and when the client actually works and doesnt bug out its just a fun game over all. Too bad its being wasted on a fail company like Riot.

Troll away NightCloak. At least thats on thing that Riots little boys know how to do, ;). ByeBye.

i love at all you people crying who think ya know it all. ppl stating their opinion like its a fact, flame me idc. 'oh i read it on the internet' so it must be true lol. i have a 'friend who works for blizzard, riot' bah. typical fan boi's who steer clear of games that mainstream play so they can think they are 'unique'. play it, dont play it. the developers don't care as long as they are making money. they are obviously good games if millions of people play them. ffs start having constructive criticism instead of flamming. yas are acting like in game mobas who i press the ignore button on and sigh at their immaturirty

oh, and one more thing. my LoL client never fails, they are a growing company so expanding is bound to have issues. the people in the forums are just tight arses who can't afford a decent pc. the maintenance on wow and LoL are the same amount of screw around. pull ya heads in.

Originally posted by scotty899

oh, and one more thing. my LoL client never fails, they are a growing company so expanding is bound to have issues. the people in the forums are just tight arses who can't afford a decent pc. the maintenance on wow and LoL are the same amount of screw around. pull ya heads in.

 http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1150758

23,507 views and 457 replies at last count and thats just one of the many threads thats been doing rounds on the forums for the past few weeks.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=13826872#post13826872

Funny how you think that Riots game is soooo rock solid then why does Riot post something like this? Over Half of the pollers responded with negative results aswell.

Last, I'm sorry but LoL has been out since 09 if I'm correct. One would think that after almost 3 year and god knows how many of millions of dollars they have made they would have at least learned a little bit about how to run an online game by now. What, thats right they've been to busy pumping out skins and lame champs to much of anything else. Magma Chamber ftw, rofl.

If they imitate LoL's business model, in which they have hero rotations, that will severly hurt the competitivity of DOTA 2. Not having access to all the tools is a big nono and its why I believe LoL can't make it as a proper e-sport. HoN when down the same lane sadly so thats going to hurt it a lot (except legacy players). The only way i see this goig f2p is if they do something similar to TF2. As long as all the heroes are available to play immediately to everyone it doesn't matter. Gabe is aware the DotA community is not one that is easy to please or one to piss off.

27,000 is a low number compared to the 15million subscribers/players. theres a 5 mil prize pool for season 2. i dont think riot games are rock solid, and thats why it is continuesly updated and modified. i lol'd at your comment about learning to run an online game, you must be an expert but im pretty sure every online game has the same dramas. go play pokemon or monster hunter or something. stop complaining

If your game is all about making money then yes, you'd wanna push in that direction.

Originally posted by UrzaElent

 

 

 lol, love stuff like this. For one Blizz main issue at release was that everyone and their freaking brother bought the game. No one and I mean no one could have guess just how freaking huge that first release was gonna be. At least Blizz did the right thing and pulled the game long enough to get more servers online to get caught up with the demand. Anyone that compares how stable Blizzards servers are compared to Riots knows this is a joke.  So, how about your take your fanboy Riot approved glasses off before you talk shit kiddo.

For the rest of you out here the argurment is really simple to resolve. These Riot drone fanboys will kiss ass as long as Riots around so you'll never get any decent info out of them. Just take a casual stroll through LoLs general and support forums. After about 1 min just reading the titles of the topic threads alone you'll see just how epic fail Riot is and just the kind of playerbase they got, lol. Please, dont take my word alone for it.

Frankly, the saddest part out of all of this is that LoL is actually a pretty fun and well put together game. The gameplay is well rounded for the most part and when the client actually works and doesnt bug out its just a fun game over all. Too bad its being wasted on a fail company like Riot.

Troll away NightCloak. At least thats on thing that Riots little boys know how to do, ;). ByeBye.

From an objective non-bias point of view, WoW technical support forums have more issues raised per minute than LoL support forums actually.

You might want to double check your post because lying about something that can easily be checked won't get you far in debates.

On topic, I fully expect DOTA2 to do really well and be F2P. The large names in the War3 Dota community have already said they will be moving over (more $$$ / sponsorships etc).

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by UrzaElent

 

 

 lol, love stuff like this. For one Blizz main issue at release was that everyone and their freaking brother bought the game. No one and I mean no one could have guess just how freaking huge that first release was gonna be. At least Blizz did the right thing and pulled the game long enough to get more servers online to get caught up with the demand. Anyone that compares how stable Blizzards servers are compared to Riots knows this is a joke.  So, how about your take your fanboy Riot approved glasses off before you talk shit kiddo.

For the rest of you out here the argurment is really simple to resolve. These Riot drone fanboys will kiss ass as long as Riots around so you'll never get any decent info out of them. Just take a casual stroll through LoLs general and support forums. After about 1 min just reading the titles of the topic threads alone you'll see just how epic fail Riot is and just the kind of playerbase they got, lol. Please, dont take my word alone for it.

Frankly, the saddest part out of all of this is that LoL is actually a pretty fun and well put together game. The gameplay is well rounded for the most part and when the client actually works and doesnt bug out its just a fun game over all. Too bad its being wasted on a fail company like Riot.

Troll away NightCloak. At least thats on thing that Riots little boys know how to do, ;). ByeBye.

From an objective non-bias point of view, WoW technical support forums have more issues raised per minute than LoL support forums actually.

You might want to double check your post because lying about something that can easily be checked won't get you far in debates.

 

On topic, I fully expect DOTA2 to do really well and be F2P. The large names in the War3 Dota community have already said they will be moving over (more $$$ / sponsorships etc).

 Oh yea, surething bro. You must be one of riot boys that love thread post like http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1186424&highlight=boobs that show up on the forums all the time. Or maybe you're the type that thinks threads like this http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1150758 are not really there either. How about this poll that just came out the other day, http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1182430? Over half of the responders posted negative results, but hey, I'm lying about that too, its not really there either. 

How about you take your own advice about talking bullshit about stuff that can be easily found, kay?

Originally posted by UrzaElent

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by UrzaElent

 

 

 

From an objective non-bias point of view, WoW technical support forums have more issues raised per minute than LoL support forums actually.

You might want to double check your post because lying about something that can easily be checked won't get you far in debates.

 

On topic, I fully expect DOTA2 to do really well and be F2P. The large names in the War3 Dota community have already said they will be moving over (more $$$ / sponsorships etc).

 Oh yea, surething bro. You must be one of riot boys that love thread post like http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1186424&highlight=boobs that show up on the forums all the time. Or maybe you're the type that thinks threads like this http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1150758 are not really there either. How about this poll that just came out the other day, http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1182430? Over half of the responders posted negative results, but hey, I'm lying about that too, its not really there either. 

How about you take your own advice about talking bullshit about stuff that can be easily found, kay?

Other than personal attacks I fail to see how this post responds to the post I made above.

You brought up LoL support forums as a measure of how 'bad' LoL stability is compared to WoW.

I am merely pointing out that WoW has more support forum posts (therefore, more issues) so what you are saying is a lie.

If you wish to argue something else, fine.

But personal attacks when someone calls you out for lying (by showing facts to the contrary) doesn't really work.

We saw this same exact thing with Starcraft: Broodwar > Starcraft 2.  The Broodwar market was dominated by the Korean and eastern scene, but when SC2 launched North America relized they could take over, and they did for the most part.  I think you'll see a similar patern for Dota2.  I don't think North America will ever dominate the Dota 2 scene but I think we'll have a much bigger place in it.

The biggest difference between the two is that Dota is a hardcore team game and American players are so incredibly juvinile and bad mannered that it is difficult for NA teams to stay together long enough to accomplish much.



*note that by North America dominating SC2 I don't neccesarily mean that NA produces the best players in the world but I'm speaking from the fact that North America dominates the market as far as sales and big tournaments.

PS. Since you made it a point to say there were no american teams in "The International" (the huge dota 2 tournament), I think you should note that 2 of the teams had American players starting for them.