Originally posted by xKingdomx

Originally posted by Dream_Chaser

@Kingdom

The success of Cryptic's C-Store post Champions: Free for All seems to contradict your notion. I often buy cosmetic things just to show my appreciation and because I like cosmetic things, apparently a lot of casual players feel the same way. You don't have to sell lots of story content on a store for it to be successful, I disgaree with that and would posit that it's a myth perpetrated by those whom would desire to have content exclusive to those whom are able to pay more for it.

Firstly if you put Champions Online's numbers in GW2's shoes, it wouldn't fit the hype level around it. CO's level of success doesn't equal the level of expectation around GW2 right now.

 

Well if you understood what I said, I actually meant whatever they put in store, it needs to hold some sort of value, therefore people will purchase it. I NEVER said cosemtic items worth nothing? I also added that CS shouldn't hold anything that is a game changer, that is reserved for expansions only. DLC will need a balance of small content nitbits and cosemtic items. Like maybe a faster travelling system (maybe mounts or automobiles), or exclusive travelling method (trains or what not - I think trains is actually a good idea, it can act as a moveable hub that players who paid for it can gather, eliminating high amount of cheap trolls :P)

There will never be any mounts and such in GW, mounts and speedy travel make even the biggest worlds feel small... There however is an Asura teleportating system that brings you right to the action..

They never said content will be sold in the cash shop. It would be best if you removed from the OP.

Originally posted by romanator0

They never said content will be sold in the cash shop. It would be best if you removed from the OP.

There was an interview from Gamescom where they said that they were thinking about selling some dungeons in the shop, while stressing that most new content between expansion packs will be free.

I see the reasons for wanting to. I personally don't think it's unreasonable either. If selling some content means they can afford to produce more content over all, I'm all for it. However, ANet is clearly being very, very careful about what they will and won't sell in the shop, so I trust that they will seriously weigh the pros and cons and will ere on the side of caution.

I also wouldn't see much difference between packaging up a few mini expansions for occassional sale and the model of selling large annual or bi-annual full sized expansions. As long as the dollar value for the amount of content provided was on par with full expansions, I'd be happy to buy a mini-pack every three months, or so. They could cover little side regions in the mini-expansions that aren't necassary to forward the main plot lines, but add more depth to the world for those than chose to buy them.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by xKingdomx

Originally posted by Dream_Chaser

@Kingdom

The success of Cryptic's C-Store post Champions: Free for All seems to contradict your notion. I often buy cosmetic things just to show my appreciation and because I like cosmetic things, apparently a lot of casual players feel the same way. You don't have to sell lots of story content on a store for it to be successful, I disgaree with that and would posit that it's a myth perpetrated by those whom would desire to have content exclusive to those whom are able to pay more for it.

Firstly if you put Champions Online's numbers in GW2's shoes, it wouldn't fit the hype level around it. CO's level of success doesn't equal the level of expectation around GW2 right now.

 

Well if you understood what I said, I actually meant whatever they put in store, it needs to hold some sort of value, therefore people will purchase it. I NEVER said cosemtic items worth nothing? I also added that CS shouldn't hold anything that is a game changer, that is reserved for expansions only. DLC will need a balance of small content nitbits and cosemtic items. Like maybe a faster travelling system (maybe mounts or automobiles), or exclusive travelling method (trains or what not - I think trains is actually a good idea, it can act as a moveable hub that players who paid for it can gather, eliminating high amount of cheap trolls :P)

There will never be any mounts and such in GW, mounts and speedy travel make even the biggest worlds feel small... There however is an Asura teleportating system that brings you right to the action..

Did they say absolute no to mounts? didn't know that.......oh well

But does size really matter that much? To me exploration is about finding hidden elements ingame, not amount of time needed to travel to the edge of the world.

Originally posted by xKingdomx

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by xKingdomx

Originally posted by Dream_Chaser

@Kingdom

The success of Cryptic's C-Store post Champions: Free for All seems to contradict your notion. I often buy cosmetic things just to show my appreciation and because I like cosmetic things, apparently a lot of casual players feel the same way. You don't have to sell lots of story content on a store for it to be successful, I disgaree with that and would posit that it's a myth perpetrated by those whom would desire to have content exclusive to those whom are able to pay more for it.

Firstly if you put Champions Online's numbers in GW2's shoes, it wouldn't fit the hype level around it. CO's level of success doesn't equal the level of expectation around GW2 right now.

 

Well if you understood what I said, I actually meant whatever they put in store, it needs to hold some sort of value, therefore people will purchase it. I NEVER said cosemtic items worth nothing? I also added that CS shouldn't hold anything that is a game changer, that is reserved for expansions only. DLC will need a balance of small content nitbits and cosemtic items. Like maybe a faster travelling system (maybe mounts or automobiles), or exclusive travelling method (trains or what not - I think trains is actually a good idea, it can act as a moveable hub that players who paid for it can gather, eliminating high amount of cheap trolls :P)

There will never be any mounts and such in GW, mounts and speedy travel make even the biggest worlds feel small... There however is an Asura teleportating system that brings you right to the action..

Did they say absolute no to mounts? didn't know that.......oh well

 

But does size really matter that much? To me exploration is about finding hidden elements ingame, not amount of time needed to travel to the edge of the world.

Mounts really trivialize the game world, espescially flying mounts. If you are a WoW player, try exploring Northrend entirely on foot. It's a completely different experience and the impressiveness of the zone design becomes much more obvious. Think of how big the early, pre-mount zones in most MMOs feel, compared to how small the world feels after you get a mount.

Also, they want "end game" content to offer the same kinds of play experiences you had while leveling up to the cap. It is NOT a game where leveling content is just the filler before the game shifts gears in a totally different direction once you hit the level cap. So, really, what is the rush to get around? Plus, with the zones being all about Dynamic Event Chains, every time you explore a zone, you are going to find a different mix of things going on. It's not like you are running back and forth between quest givers and static content. The journey is intertwined with the game, rather than being an empty timesink.

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by xKingdomx

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by xKingdomx

Originally posted by Dream_Chaser

@Kingdom

The success of Cryptic's C-Store post Champions: Free for All seems to contradict your notion. I often buy cosmetic things just to show my appreciation and because I like cosmetic things, apparently a lot of casual players feel the same way. You don't have to sell lots of story content on a store for it to be successful, I disgaree with that and would posit that it's a myth perpetrated by those whom would desire to have content exclusive to those whom are able to pay more for it.

Firstly if you put Champions Online's numbers in GW2's shoes, it wouldn't fit the hype level around it. CO's level of success doesn't equal the level of expectation around GW2 right now.

 

Well if you understood what I said, I actually meant whatever they put in store, it needs to hold some sort of value, therefore people will purchase it. I NEVER said cosemtic items worth nothing? I also added that CS shouldn't hold anything that is a game changer, that is reserved for expansions only. DLC will need a balance of small content nitbits and cosemtic items. Like maybe a faster travelling system (maybe mounts or automobiles), or exclusive travelling method (trains or what not - I think trains is actually a good idea, it can act as a moveable hub that players who paid for it can gather, eliminating high amount of cheap trolls :P)

There will never be any mounts and such in GW, mounts and speedy travel make even the biggest worlds feel small... There however is an Asura teleportating system that brings you right to the action..

Did they say absolute no to mounts? didn't know that.......oh well

 

But does size really matter that much? To me exploration is about finding hidden elements ingame, not amount of time needed to travel to the edge of the world.

Mounts really trivialize the game world, espescially flying mounts. If you are a WoW player, try exploring Northrend entirely on foot. It's a completely different experience and the impressiveness of the zone design becomes much more obvious. Think of how big the early, pre-mount zones in most MMOs feel, compared to how small the world feels after you get a mount.

Also, they want "end game" content to offer the same kinds of play experiences you had while leveling up to the cap. It is NOT a game where leveling content is just the filler before the game shifts gears in a totally different direction once you hit the level cap. So, really, what is the rush to get around? Plus, with the zones being all about Dynamic Event Chains, every time you explore a zone, you are going to find a different mix of things going on. It's not like you are running back and forth between quest givers and static content. The journey is intertwined with the game, rather than being an empty timesink.

All I'm saying is that, size is only half the story, the place needs a distinct character to feel lively, sometimes size is detrimental to a zone design. One thing I want games devs to try is to actually find a guy with architectural knowlegde to build zones, not just a plain artist with a few paintings, there is a huge difference between 2D and 3D spatial quality, or at least a scupture artist.

Too often are zones built with 90% trees and the other 9% is grass. Then they just ram up the amount of lighting and everyone is like "woah so beautiful", yet to me, those zones just lack any depth and character in them. And do anyone realise MMO are 99% taken in a outdoor space? or in a underground cave? Do bad guys not go to any indoor environment where the roof is not 100meters above ground?

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by romanator0

They never said content will be sold in the cash shop. It would be best if you removed from the OP.

There was an interview from Gamescom where they said that they were thinking about selling some dungeons in the shop, while stressing that most new content between expansion packs will be free.

I see the reasons for wanting to. I personally don't think it's unreasonable either. If selling some content means they can afford to produce more content over all, I'm all for it. However, ANet is clearly being very, very careful about what they will and won't sell in the shop, so I trust that they will seriously weigh the pros and cons and will ere on the side of caution.

I also wouldn't see much difference between packaging up a few mini expansions for occassional sale and the model of selling large annual or bi-annual full sized expansions. As long as the dollar value for the amount of content provided was on par with full expansions, I'd be happy to buy a mini-pack every three months, or so. They could cover little side regions in the mini-expansions that aren't necassary to forward the main plot lines, but add more depth to the world for those than chose to buy them.

I don't mind paying for extra content either, within reason.  But others won't.  You may have those cash shop content packs, but if your friends don't, you won't be playing with them.  That runs counter to ANet's philosophy of always letting you play with the people that you want to play with. 

Thanks for the info OP. Its important that this information gets out there since there are many that don't understand how GW's system works. Mainly because they are foreing to it and because they have only seen two models, F2P and P2P. 

Originally posted by xKingdomx

Too often are zones built with 90% trees and the other 9% is grass. Then they just ram up the amount of lighting and everyone is like "woah so beautiful", yet to me, those zones just lack any depth and character in them.

Could you please put an example of each?

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by xKingdomx

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by xKingdomx

Originally posted by Dream_Chaser

@Kingdom

The success of Cryptic's C-Store post Champions: Free for All seems to contradict your notion. I often buy cosmetic things just to show my appreciation and because I like cosmetic things, apparently a lot of casual players feel the same way. You don't have to sell lots of story content on a store for it to be successful, I disgaree with that and would posit that it's a myth perpetrated by those whom would desire to have content exclusive to those whom are able to pay more for it.

Firstly if you put Champions Online's numbers in GW2's shoes, it wouldn't fit the hype level around it. CO's level of success doesn't equal the level of expectation around GW2 right now.

 

Well if you understood what I said, I actually meant whatever they put in store, it needs to hold some sort of value, therefore people will purchase it. I NEVER said cosemtic items worth nothing? I also added that CS shouldn't hold anything that is a game changer, that is reserved for expansions only. DLC will need a balance of small content nitbits and cosemtic items. Like maybe a faster travelling system (maybe mounts or automobiles), or exclusive travelling method (trains or what not - I think trains is actually a good idea, it can act as a moveable hub that players who paid for it can gather, eliminating high amount of cheap trolls :P)

There will never be any mounts and such in GW, mounts and speedy travel make even the biggest worlds feel small... There however is an Asura teleportating system that brings you right to the action..

Did they say absolute no to mounts? didn't know that.......oh well

 

But does size really matter that much? To me exploration is about finding hidden elements ingame, not amount of time needed to travel to the edge of the world.

Mounts really trivialize the game world, espescially flying mounts. If you are a WoW player, try exploring Northrend entirely on foot. It's a completely different experience and the impressiveness of the zone design becomes much more obvious. Think of how big the early, pre-mount zones in most MMOs feel, compared to how small the world feels after you get a mount.

Also, they want "end game" content to offer the same kinds of play experiences you had while leveling up to the cap. It is NOT a game where leveling content is just the filler before the game shifts gears in a totally different direction once you hit the level cap. So, really, what is the rush to get around? Plus, with the zones being all about Dynamic Event Chains, every time you explore a zone, you are going to find a different mix of things going on. It's not like you are running back and forth between quest givers and static content. The journey is intertwined with the game, rather than being an empty timesink.

I agree that mounts do trilvialize travel in the world, but I do like the idea of mounts.  Getting around quickly is a nice bonus but mostly I like the idea because it's simply an additional path for character customization.  What they could do if they ever chose to include them at some later date is restrict access to them until you reach level 80, then have a long chain in your personal storyline to obtain one.  At that point in your adventuring career, you've likely seen much of the world and you won't be skipping over quite as much as if you received it earlier in the game.

AND, this would be something that would be a perfect addition for RMT content because it's a personal quest and is totally optional.  Given the asura gate network, no one would suffer if they didn't have a mount, but for those of us that want them, there's a path to get them.  It can also be a long route with many hoops to jump through so that there's a real challenge involved.  In WoW terms, it could be like obtaining a paladin mount way before the changes were made that completely stripped it of any sense of accomplishment.

I think it could work and would be popular enough that many would be willing to put down money for the extra content.  But it wouldn't affect my ability to play with my friends because the content itself is designed to be personal in nature.  Then hey, at the end of it, your mount could appear in the stables of your home instance and would be yet another way to customize it.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

 

There will never be any mounts and such in GW, mounts and speedy travel make even the biggest worlds feel small... There however is an Asura teleportating system that brings you right to the action..

With regard to mounts it should be noted that during the latest PAX Q&A event they emphasized there won't be any mounts AT LAUNCH. What they have in store for the future when it comes to mounts? I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Originally posted by Methos12

With regard to mounts it should be noted that during the latest PAX Q&A event they emphasized there won't be any mounts AT LAUNCH. What they have in store for the future when it comes to mounts? I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Well, you're technically right (we don't know for sure), however it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to put mounts in the game.

They might anyway (as a novelty thing), but with the fast-travel mechanic, and most of the bosses (dungeons) being instanced anyway, there's not really a need for mounts.

They still might add them, but it wouldn't be the same as in other MMOs. I really wouldn't expect too much on that.

Not to mention that the people who want mounts are of a specific minority that Guild Wars 2 isn't tailored to. The thing is is that in the traditional MMORPG you grind, you grind, you raid, you grind, and then you get a graphical manifestation of your e-peen which apparently makes some people feel as though they're allowed to be better than newer players, whom are somehow lesser. This mindset in general, this tiny minority, is something that Guild Wars 2 isn't catering to. There are other games out there that cater to that.

If they add mounts then it's going to be combat mounts which are restricted to a certain set of events or dynamic events, such as jousting, charr cars, and so on. There will be no travel mounts. I can guarantee you right now and would be willing to put down a £100 bet on there never being travel mounts in Guild Wars 2 at any point in the future. They're being vague to bring in the sales from people who're hopeful and whom ArenaNet know will adapt to the new ways and forget why they even liked traditional MMORPGs in the first place. That's what's happening here.

And really, they can just add one, big dynamic event that uses mounts and they could say that these combat mounts were the 'mounts' that they were hinting at all along, and that everyone was just reading between the lines and that wasn't their fault. This would be 100% true. See, people keep saying mounts but no one is asking about travel mounts. And if you assume and you're wrong (and you will be wrong if you bet on travel mounts) then you can't blame anyone but yourself for your own disappointment, now can you?

ArenaNet hasn't said that travel mounts would be in the game, ever, at any point. Not at launch, not conceptually, not even considering it. The mounts they're talking about are quite obviously combat mounts. It doesn't take a lot of forethought to figure tha tout, does it? Mounts go against all of their design philosophies. Why would they add travel mounts? Simple answer: They wouldn't.

It's best to either just accept this or find a game which has mounts if that's so important to you.

But do you know what else I'd bet on? That to at least 90~% of the people who are playing Guild Wars 2 (and probably more), mounts aren't at all important, not even remotely, just as mounts weren't important in the original game. Only a tiny, tiny minority complained about the lack of mounts back then, even, and usually they were 'traditional MMORPG hardcore fans,' and often with fans you just wish they'd go and be fans of something else, since all they can do is bitch and complain about the things they're fans of. Have you see Doctor Who fans? It's ridiculous. I'm all for balanced complaints and properly weighted arguments, but... yeah, going on and on about mounts in a game that won't have mounts is nonsensical.

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by romanator0

They never said content will be sold in the cash shop. It would be best if you removed from the OP.

There was an interview from Gamescom where they said that they were thinking about selling some dungeons in the shop, while stressing that most new content between expansion packs will be free.

I see the reasons for wanting to. I personally don't think it's unreasonable either. If selling some content means they can afford to produce more content over all, I'm all for it. However, ANet is clearly being very, very careful about what they will and won't sell in the shop, so I trust that they will seriously weigh the pros and cons and will ere on the side of caution.

I also wouldn't see much difference between packaging up a few mini expansions for occassional sale and the model of selling large annual or bi-annual full sized expansions. As long as the dollar value for the amount of content provided was on par with full expansions, I'd be happy to buy a mini-pack every three months, or so. They could cover little side regions in the mini-expansions that aren't necassary to forward the main plot lines, but add more depth to the world for those than chose to buy them.

"Colin wanted me to clarify that all we have decided at this point about added content to GW2 is we will have expansions just like in Gw1, and we will have a in-game store that operates just like the Gw1 shop. We will never sell goods that makes one player more powerful than enough player. At this time we are focused on getting the core Gw2 game complete and really haven't focused much on how we will present content after ship. There are currently no plans to release dungeons via the in-game store, because we do not yet know what content will be in expansions vs. the Gw2 in-game store."

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/interview-with-colin-johanson-mondes-t20595.html?p=872589#post872589

They never said there will be content in the cash shop. It would be best if that were removed from the OP.

Originally posted by Dream_Chaser

If they add mounts then it's going to be combat mounts which are restricted to a certain set of events or dynamic events, such as jousting, charr cars, and so on. There will be no travel mounts. I can guarantee you right now and would be willing to put down a £100 bet on there never being travel mounts in Guild Wars 2 at any point in the future. They're being vague to bring in the sales from people who're hopeful and whom ArenaNet know will adapt to the new ways and forget why they even liked traditional MMORPGs in the first place. That's what's happening here.

And really, they can just add one, big dynamic event that uses mounts and they could say that these combat mounts were the 'mounts' that they were hinting at all along, and that everyone was just reading between the lines and that wasn't their fault. This would be 100% true. See, people keep saying mounts but no one is asking about travel mounts. And if you assume and you're wrong (and you will be wrong if you bet on travel mounts) then you can't blame anyone but yourself for your own disappointment, now can you?

Dare I say it... airship armada battles? Sign me for a yes.

Originally posted by Exilor

Originally posted by xKingdomx

Too often are zones built with 90% trees and the other 9% is grass. Then they just ram up the amount of lighting and everyone is like "woah so beautiful", yet to me, those zones just lack any depth and character in them.

Could you please put an example of each?

Every starting zone of majority of MMORPG fantasy titles to it off with