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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: Sex & Games & Rolling Dice

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241 posts found
  AzurePrower

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/07
Posts: 1530

Ahh yes, "Hypers." The people who praise and hate every MMORPG... We've dismissed that claim.

8/26/11 3:32:21 AM#201

KOTOR 1 had no same-sex romance option.

KOTOR 2 had no same-sex romance option.

*shock* TOR has no same-sex romance option.


I call that consistency. I really don't get why people need to go on and on about it.

Not to mention there is not a single other MMO out there that has a 'same-sex romance' option.

  Metsis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/29/10
Posts: 66

8/26/11 3:45:45 AM#202
Originally posted by Xondar123

A) Learn to spell "Edmonton" correctly. B) Bioware Edmonton is a Canadian company with Canadian enmployees based in Canada. In Canada same-sex marriage has been legal for many years now, a large percent of the population agrees with it, and they've been pretty consistant in including it in their past games up until now.

Bioware edmonton isn't going to take features out of games because a few bigots don't want them in.

This way the game is available to all possible customers. The other way around, the market would be limited by countries...

And the gay/lesbian etc community is more than likely to buy this game even without their preferred sexual content in it. I don't think Bioware has stated any where that the romantic relationship are mandatory to play through. So gays are not forced to watch even the hetero sexual pixels doing it... I don't think you end up in the sack by accident or by surprise even in this game. These points have been quite clear in former Bioware titles and I am sure they are quite clear here too.

As I said before, you can have any sort of PVP interaction, don't recall them saying they have not limited this any more than in your run-off-the-mill MMO...

Imagination, remember when people used to have it? Your brain is a powerful tool, use it...

  C04L

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/08
Posts: 22

8/26/11 4:56:52 AM#203

when i played Dragon Age, i made the mistake of talking a little too much to Zevran.

as alot of people found out, he's a bit of a loose tart! all you gotta do is look at him and his innuendo's start pouring out.

It didnt offend me in the least, after all, each to their own. i beleive that each person has a right to the way they feel towards another human being IRL - or alien in the case of ME....

Star Wars The Old Republic is an MMORPG. (with an emphasis on mmo) - what will the repacutions be?

I mean, there was all this uproar on the wow forums many months back about identities and abuse, beleive it or not the "21st century people" are sadly a minority when it comes to ananimity, and there will be mean, hatefull abuse towards people, with adding 'phobes in the mix how would you police it, how would you prepare for the press explosion that would incuur when a kid comits suicide cause players hassel'd him/her so much... gods forbid!

I'm just trying to say the world is slowly coming round to the rights of GL etc etc and putting lighter fluid on a hot topic causes more harm than good, imo.

I think Bioware decided that there would be too much damage, beit emotional or real world politics. its a game and its not worth it.

I'm straight, but Captain Jack rules! /cheer

  scottec1425

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 65

8/26/11 8:46:43 AM#204

Who honestly cares, Its a game, as its been stated many times BW didnt put any same sex in any other Star wars game, why would they add it hear? Just because ME1-2 and Dragon Age, had it, dont mean every game out there is gonna start having it made by BW. If the Gay and Lesbian community is worried that there avatar in a game cant have a same sex relationship and the only real options are to have relationships with opisit sex, im sure they just wont go down the romance lines. You dont have to presue realtionships in BW games. You can all just be friends, no where in the game does it say you have to have sex with any of your team mates, or randome bar fly chick/guy. im sure the game wouldent force you into a relationship.

  Nifa

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 327

You can get more with a kind word & a 2x4 than you can with just a kind word

8/26/11 9:09:15 AM#205

It could be EA/BioWare and the drama it caused in DA. IIRC, the Story lead had to defend his choice to include it in DA and he did so admirably.

It could also be LA. Though same-sex relationships have been included in the EU, they've never been a part of G canon (Lucas has never included them in anything he has written. The books are, in fact, canon, but a lower level of canon than G canon, which is the granddaddy of all Star Wars canon, as it was written by Lucas himself. Source: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon). Same sex relationships have been hinted at in games (Juhani) and directly included in books (Karen Traviss specifically stated that two of her Mandalorians were, in fact, in a long-term, loving, homosexual relationship), but Lucas himself has never directly included same-sex relationships in G canon level materials.

Lucas tends to avoid controversy. Evangelicals would certainly crucify him and the Star Wars brand if he directly included same sex relationships in his brand. Is it right? No. But bigotry has never been about what is right or just, nor has predjudice ever been sensible.

Punishing Lucas, BioWare, or EA in this instance is illogical. It is just as illogical as it would be for evangelicals to punish them if they included same sex relationships.

Several solutions have been offered. One is to create a female character with attributes that are as masculine as you can possibly make them (or a male character with attributes as female as you can possibly make them). Alternately, if you are a roleplayer or if the tools exist in game, write your own story. Your character's development and relationship need not be solely within the environment the game gives you. If it did, there wouldn't be bookstores with shelves full of gaming related novels.

Firebrand Art

"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman

Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr

  Breatherton

Novice Member

Joined: 6/11/04
Posts: 5

8/26/11 9:13:10 AM#206

I don't see the point in getting all up in arms about this.  For one, it is thier game.  They made it, they are selling it, and if it has something you do not like either in it or not in it, we in USA live in a free capitalist society that allows us to either buy or not buy something.  After it comes out if enough people think this is a problem the game won't sell very well or last very long.  Again, Bioware decided they wouldn't add it, end of story.  Stop being all affended for nothing and grow a backbone.

  laresloci

Novice Member

Joined: 4/24/08
Posts: 385

8/26/11 9:38:29 AM#207

We can go around in a game murdering, maiming & killing but any kind of sex is taboo...give me a break.


Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~Ernest Gaines

  scottec1425

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 65

8/26/11 10:16:31 AM#208
Yeah, cause starwars is filled with sex sceens, or blood and gore for that matter. Sure you might talk about blood and gore but you don't see it, you do see killing but I'm sure the devs are shooting for a teen rating.
  marquisk2

Novice Member

Joined: 3/11/06
Posts: 146

8/26/11 11:17:51 AM#209

The game is their idea.  Why would anyone try and force them to change their idea?  Make your own game or find another.

  scottec1425

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 65

8/26/11 12:43:02 PM#210

I have no clue what hes talking about but it creeps me out.

  Amana

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 1/03/11
Posts: 2337

8/26/11 1:30:22 PM#211

Going to temporarily lock this while we sort through it. After then, we'll make a decision on reopening comments.

 

To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

  Amana

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 1/03/11
Posts: 2337

8/26/11 6:07:51 PM#212

Okay, we are unlocking this one again. 

 

Please remember that this is a gaming forum, so please stick to the topic of the game and avoid bringing religion and politics or any form of hateful comments. Stating disagreement with the decision or agreement with it does not require delving into a right or wrong debate. We have a diverse community here and we presume that there can be civil discussion.

To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

  User Deleted
8/26/11 8:13:05 PM#213

In my mind, consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want to with each other (behind closed doors anyway).  The message behind that is not only one of minding your own business, but one of tolerance.  It's 2011.  Aren't we all supposed to be equal and free from persecution and prejudice due to race, sex, creed, disability, sexual orientation or whatever?

If a game doesn't want to include any sexual activity because they don't want to expose it to children, then to me that's one thing.  Notice the phrase "consenting adults" in the first line of my post.  Some themes are more mature than others and that's why we have ratings systems and hopefully parents who monitor what entertainment their kids consume.

However, if you're including heterosexual sexual activity in your game and deliberately not allowing homosexuality, then either the developer/producer is saying that homosexuality is not ok or they're afraid of offending the bigoted.  Don't give me any of that "they wanted to save money" crap, this is EA we're talking about.  Whatever the reason, whether it's cowardice, eyeing the bottom line, or just plain bigotry, it's wrong.

People who believe in equality should really think about whether they want to support companies that don't.

 

  Nifa

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 327

You can get more with a kind word & a 2x4 than you can with just a kind word

8/27/11 12:04:02 AM#214
Originally posted by cali59

In my mind, consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want to with each other (behind closed doors anyway).  The message behind that is not only one of minding your own business, but one of tolerance.  It's 2011.  Aren't we all supposed to be equal and free from persecution and prejudice due to race, sex, creed, disability, sexual orientation or whatever?

If a game doesn't want to include any sexual activity because they don't want to expose it to children, then to me that's one thing.  Notice the phrase "consenting adults" in the first line of my post.  Some themes are more mature than others and that's why we have ratings systems and hopefully parents who monitor what entertainment their kids consume.

However, if you're including heterosexual sexual activity in your game and deliberately not allowing homosexuality, then either the developer/producer is saying that homosexuality is not ok or they're afraid of offending the bigoted.  Don't give me any of that "they wanted to save money" crap, this is EA we're talking about.  Whatever the reason, whether it's cowardice, eyeing the bottom line, or just plain bigotry, it's wrong.

People who believe in equality should really think about whether they want to support companies that don't.

 

You hit this right on the head, Cali. "Consenting adults" and "behind closed doors."

We've all been around the proverbial MMORPG block a time or two. First, how many MMORPGs are played by, or marketed to, "consenting adults" anymore? The average age requirement to belong to any game forum - including this one, I believe, is thirteen years old. Generally speaking, that is also the age required to own an account provided the player has parental permission (or some means of paying for that account such as their own checking account).

Now, do not misunderstand me and think that I am saying that 13 is too young to learn that a lot of people in the world (myself included) are perfectly okay with the idea that people should be able to love whomever they love, regardless of what gender they are. But a lot of people still think 13 may be too young for that, and that should be okay too, in my opinion - to each his/her own.

Second, because we have all been around the proverbial MMO block, I think we can safely say that we know that, unless moderation in TOR is far and above moderation in any other MMO ever since the dawn of MMOs, no relationship will ever be fully "behind closed doors." Whether by accident or deliberately, there will be cybering. Most of us will choose to ignore it, but it will exist. It may slip via mistell into group chat (seen that happen a time or twenty - it's amusing until you actually do have a thirteen year old kid in the group whose parents happen to walk in and see that and, as guild leader, you are explaining to the mother and father exactly what the situation was that caused that to happen), or it may turn out that a region on Nar Shaddaa turns out to be the equivalent of Moonguard's Goldshire.

If the gripe is indeed about equality, again, I recommend folks take it up with LucasArts. BioWare and EA have proven time and time again that they are very supportive of equal rights and same-sex relationships. David Gaider, of Bioware, on same-sex relationships in Dragon Age 2 (developed, published, and distributed under EA):


"The romances in the game are not for "the straight male gamer". They're for everyone. We have a lot of fans, many of whom are neither straight nor male, and they deserve no less attention. We have good numbers, after all, on the number of people who actually used similar sorts of content in DAO and thus don't need to resort to anecdotal evidence to support our idea that their numbers are not insignificant... and that's ignoring the idea that they don't have just as much right to play the kind of game they wish as anyone else. The "rights" of anyone with regards to a game are murky at best, but anyone who takes that stance must apply it equally to both the minority as well as the majority. The majority has no inherent "right" to get more options than anyone else.

...Romances are never one-size-fits-all, and even for those who don't mind the sexuality issue there's no guarantee they'll find a character they even want to romance. That's why romances are optional content. It's such a personal issue that we'll never be able to please everyone. The very best we can do is give everyone a little bit of choice, and that's what we tried here.

And the person who says that the only way to please them is to restrict options for others is, if you ask me, the one who deserves it least. And that's my opinion, expressed as politely as possible."

Source: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/304/index/6661775&lf=8

Firebrand Art

"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman

Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr

  Cannyone

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/10
Posts: 264

8/27/11 12:41:59 AM#215

I guess I'm a bit confused by the hoopla... People want to have same sex romances, with "Companions" in SWTOR?  Why?  Just because they had that in Dragon age?  This is an MMORPG for crying out loud.  If they want to have a same sex relationship why not have one with another player?  Are they such loosers that they have to get their "love" from a "companion"?  Or, a better way to put it, are they just so socially inept that they have insist BioWare provide a "simulated relationship" just for them?


Seems like a really self centered concern to me... I'd rather they work on "other content" personally.  Like incorporating more character customization options.  Or custominzing your ship in various ways.  Or expanding the Space game... The list gets really long really fast.  And Everybody is more likely to appreciate the value of those things.  Instead of spending valuable time developing content which will most likely not have universal appeal.


I mean I could see what they did in Dragon age.  But there your primary interactions were with your companions.  SWTOR should be different if for no other reason that it is designed to be a multiplayer experience.  That's the part that makes this topic so bizzare.


  User Deleted
8/27/11 3:04:04 AM#216
Originally posted by Cannyone

I guess I'm a bit confused by the hoopla... People want to have same sex romances, with "Companions" in SWTOR?  Why?  Just because they had that in Dragon age?  This is an MMORPG for crying out loud.  If they want to have a same sex relationship why not have one with another player?  Are they such loosers that they have to get their "love" from a "companion"?  Or, a better way to put it, are they just so socially inept that they have insist BioWare provide a "simulated relationship" just for them?


Seems like a really self centered concern to me... I'd rather they work on "other content" personally.  Like incorporating more character customization options.  Or custominzing your ship in various ways.  Or expanding the Space game... The list gets really long really fast.  And Everybody is more likely to appreciate the value of those things.  Instead of spending valuable time developing content which will most likely not have universal appeal.


I mean I could see what they did in Dragon age.  But there your primary interactions were with your companions.  SWTOR should be different if for no other reason that it is designed to be a multiplayer experience.  That's the part that makes this topic so bizzare.

It's about equality.  Let's look at your first paragraph.  Heterosexual options for companions exist but you have no problem with them.  However, you think any homosexual should seek out other players for their romance because it's an MMORPG and that they're losers if they want to have a game supported story romance option from a companion.  If you want to argue that nobody should want this option because anybody who does is a loser, that's fine, but there is a real double standard here if you're ok with it for heterosexuals but not homosexuals.

As far as your second paragraph, you're not putting yourself in someone else's shoes.  Presuming you're a heterosexual, options for you are already in the game, so you're not interested in homosexual options, they aren't for you.  You want to see them work on the part of the game you are interested in and you justify those by saying they have universal appeal.  However, you have to realize that they already spent valuable time on something that doesn't have universal appeal, namely heterosexual relationships. 

Again, it's one thing if they would have spent no time whatsoever on companion romance, because after all, it is an MMORPG and maybe players should be focusing on other players instead of companions.  But once they spend time including heterosexual stuff, it's discriminatory to homosexual players to not include the same options for them.

  MMO.Maverick

Inquisitor

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 7792

The middle road is the place to be!

8/27/11 3:21:43 AM#217

Lol! I just realised why the title of this thread had this oddly familiar ring, it's a variant of 'Sex & Drugs & Rock 'n Roll'

The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  mcumbee

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/11
Posts: 2

8/27/11 6:54:48 AM#218
Leave the SEX out of it......It is a game about fighting....not sex
It should not matter if you are gay,lesbian,straight....we should all
be playing on the same level and SEX or relationships should have nothing
to do with it. When they started including things like marriages in games
they made a HUGE mistake.
  kevorkianj

Novice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 54

8/27/11 10:46:09 AM#219

Am I the only one who thinks the question (the original one from the youtube video) is a bit odd? Of course you can't stop players having same-sex or any other kind of relationship in game (real or RP). So I believe the issue is misunderstood. Therefore, Cory Butler's answer can only mean that there will be no same sex relationships in the story-line of SWTOR. 


  Wiezard

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/08/10
Posts: 163

8/27/11 10:48:42 AM#220
Originally posted by kevorkianj

Am I the only one who thinks the question (the original one from the youtube video) is a bit odd? Of course you can't stop players having same-sex or any other kind of relationship in game (real or RP). So I believe the issue is misunderstood. Therefore, Cory Butler's answer can only mean that there will be no same sex relationships in the story-line of SWTOR. 

Yes that is exactly what it means. People can still role play with same sex players, nothing is stopping them.

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