Originally posted by Wiezard

Originally posted by laserit

 Intelligence comes in many forms bud. Sorry I didn't use my spell check

And I'm sorry but anybody who can spend $25.00 on a mount for a game that they pay $15.00 a month for, is a dumbass in my book

each to their own

Sorry bud but intelligent people don't need spell check ;)

 OMG i've been humilyated on the intranets 

peace out

Originally posted by Aori

What have they fallen victim to? I'm pretty sure D3 will still sell more copies than TL2. Fully moddable is a blessing and a curse, people don't seem to understand this.

LOL .......

Originally posted by laserit

Originally posted by Nikkita

Originally posted by laserit

From taking advantage of dumb people by selling  a stupid mount in there p2p cash shop for $25.00

I'm sure they have a whole department trying to figure out news ways to take more money out of your pocket.

People just amaze me. Before long, people will be buying all the'yre weapons and armour in a cash shop and they'll think it's the greatist thing since sliced bread.

For someone who likes to throw random insults like *dumb people*and generalize everyone, i am guessing you consider yourself quite smart and intelligent? if yes how come you are even unable to spell right? i don't know any smart people who can't even spell 'greatest'.

 Intelligence comes in many forms bud. Sorry I didn't use my spell check

And I'm sorry but anybody who can spend $25.00 on a mount for a game that they pay $15.00 a month for, is a dumbass in my book

each to their own

I think we found the problem, does it bother you that people use their money for reasons you wouldn't personally agree with? Or does it perhaps bother you that these people can afford to spend 25 bucks on a whim?

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by crescens87

look at diablo 2, compare that list with diablo 3 taking into account that everyone and their mother has internet (doesnt mean you have to play with other people)

Basically your definition of greed is retailing a triple A game at the normal price verses an Indie game at 20, yes torchlight is very similar but alot of features in D3 that are not in Torchlight2, and i think the other main word in this arguement would end up being POLISH

My definition of greed is DESTROYING your product for a few extra bucks.

 

Diablo 2 has more features than Diablo 3 has, simply because they want more MONEY from diablo 3. The removal of offline play is somehow connected with piracy, but pirates will ALWAYS find a way around anti-piracy measures. Meaning that only people who legitimately purchase diablo 3 will be hurt by this, and NOT the pirates.

 

Blizzard have, indeed, fallen VERY far since Diablo II.

I personally think that's rubbish. I think Blizzard get better every year. Their games continue to impress, and are well balanced and polished. 

I'm no WoW player; never have been, never will be, but I respect what they achieved with it. Starcraft 2 is one year old, and it's probably the best RTS I have ever played in my life. Oh, and it too, has no offline play (as such). 

Blizzard will out-sell Torchlight 2 a thousand-times over, and it's cash auction house will be a huge success. I'm so confident that it will set a new standard for F2P games in fact, that I just bought 100 shares in Activision-Blizzard. 

All these F2P games selling pay-to-win times have been doing it all wrong! Let the players sell the items and take a nice big cut. Good call Blizzard.

Originally posted by laserit

Originally posted by Nikkita

Originally posted by laserit

From taking advantage of dumb people by selling  a stupid mount in there p2p cash shop for $25.00

I'm sure they have a whole department trying to figure out news ways to take more money out of your pocket.

People just amaze me. Before long, people will be buying all the'yre weapons and armour in a cash shop and they'll think it's the greatist thing since sliced bread.

For someone who likes to throw random insults like *dumb people*and generalize everyone, i am guessing you consider yourself quite smart and intelligent? if yes how come you are even unable to spell right? i don't know any smart people who can't even spell 'greatest'.

 Intelligence comes in many forms bud. Sorry I didn't use my spell check

And I'm sorry but anybody who can spend $25.00 on a mount for a game that they pay $15.00 a month for, is a dumbass in my book

each to their own

$25 to many people is spare change. Intelligent people understand that disposable income varies from person to person. What you see as dumb, others see as 'meh, why not, it's only $XX'.

Originally posted by Thekandy

 

I think we found the problem, does it bother you that people use their money for reasons you wouldn't personally agree with? Or does it perhaps bother you that these people can afford to spend 25 bucks on a whim?

I just want to have a server without any MT/item shop. I can pay bigger sub for it , like 25$ / month. Not transfer from or to "normal" servers to /from  it. Call it hardcore or pony server don't care.

Then on majority 15$ + MT servers they can sell even 10,000$ mounts.

Hope some game company will get this idea. Be flexible and offer servers with diffrent business models to people to choose from.

If games didnt make any money they wouldnt have money to make more games so in sense all game companys want money maybe some do it for the fun of it and think about what their customers want more than other companys but the bottom line is they are there to make a studio money. Nothing operates without money anyone with a job and a life knows this. Now saying that with diablo 3 is all about money and they will obviously get alot of it but if u got a problem with it dont buy it just like everything else. Ive played Diablo 1 and 2 and will buy 3 and to think they dont care about their customers is insane. I mean look at how long they have supported their games after release when was diablo 1 released? 1996 and u can still get on it and play online via their service along with starcraft 1 and diablo 2 is still going strong. And for the not having random dungeons is bogus thats a diablo staple http://pc.ign.com/articles/885/885126p1.html and look another addition random adventures? they added crafting they have actual PvP in it man this game is going to blow part 2 out of the water and Torchlight 2 who just took diablo and made it their own.

Originally posted by Thekandy

Originally posted by laserit

Originally posted by Nikkita

Originally posted by laserit

From taking advantage of dumb people by selling  a stupid mount in there p2p cash shop for $25.00

I'm sure they have a whole department trying to figure out news ways to take more money out of your pocket.

People just amaze me. Before long, people will be buying all the'yre weapons and armour in a cash shop and they'll think it's the greatist thing since sliced bread.

For someone who likes to throw random insults like *dumb people*and generalize everyone, i am guessing you consider yourself quite smart and intelligent? if yes how come you are even unable to spell right? i don't know any smart people who can't even spell 'greatest'.

 Intelligence comes in many forms bud. Sorry I didn't use my spell check

And I'm sorry but anybody who can spend $25.00 on a mount for a game that they pay $15.00 a month for, is a dumbass in my book

each to their own

I think we found the problem, does it bother you that people use their money for reasons you wouldn't personally agree with? Or does it perhaps bother you that these people can afford to spend 25 bucks on a whim?

 I would wager that most people who buy these items are people who buy things on impulse. People who shouldn't be buying them because they really can't afford it.

I could care less what people spend they're money on.

What bother's me is companies who take advantage of this. Greed bother's me

Now I could go on and on about greed and what it's doing to the good old United States of America, but I'll just leave it at that.

peace out 

Originally posted by laserit

Originally posted by Thekandy

Originally posted by laserit

Originally posted by Nikkita

Originally posted by laserit

 I would wager that most people who buy these items are people who buy things on impulse. People who shouldn't be buying them because they really can't afford it.

I could care less what people spend they're money on.

What bother's me is companies who take advantage of this. Greed bother's me

Now I could go on and on, but I'll just leave it at that

peace out 

Yeah, those poor little consumers who can't help but to buy everything laid in front of their noses, how dare these soul-crushing companies supply a product people demand.

It's like we're living in a capitalistic society or something.

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by Zorgo

Originally posted by Brenelael

 

If you make a game for gamers you'll make money... Torchlight proved that quite nicely. There is nothing idiotic about it. Torchlight came out of nowhere with very little fanfare and ended up outselling most AAA comercial products at the time. If you build your game with features gamers want at a reasonable price you'll have a winner every time. This is something most of the big AAA companies have forgotten. This is the principal that built Blizzard into the giant it is today. Somewhere along the line they lost sight of this.

 

Bren

And will therefore lose money and your tirade will be vindicated.

Or D3 will be hella fun and thus worth the money......

When did I ever say Diablo 3 wouldn't make money? I'm sure it will. It will probably outsell Torchlight 2 by a factor of at least two to one because it has the Blizzard propaganda machine behind it. I'm sure Diablo 3 will be very successful but that is not the point I was trying to make. Torchlight 2 will also be very successful but for very different reasons. Diablo 3 will be successful because of the IP name, Blizzard's marketing machine and I'm sure that at the core it will be a fun game. Torchlight 2 will be successful because the designers are putting their all into the gameplay itself and not wasting resources designing features to get extra revenue.

Both games will be successful but for very different reasons.

 

Bren

I wasn't implying that D3 will be the straw that broke the camels back, I meant that if Blizzard has truly lost sight of what gamers want, eventually gamers will not buy their products and thus you will be vindicated.

What I truly believe is that Blizzard may have lost sight of what you as a gamer wants, but the evidence to me indicates that there are millions of gamers who disagree with you.

We are no longer in an age where you can pidgeon hole all gamers to be of like minds, we have expanded from a few hundred thousand to multiple millions.

It is completely illogical to assume that millions upon millions of people have all been completely fooled time and time again by blizzard's marketing machine. Many probably have, but it is completely logical to assume that millions upon millions of gamers believe Blizzard knows what gamers want.

And I reiterate, if D3 is a great game, than it will be worth the cost to the people who enjoy it, thus completely nullifying your entire argument. And you admit that at its core it will be fun - sorry this is a major aspect of capitalism. The price will reflect what the market will bear. The market will determine whether it feels 'fleeced' by Blizzard or whether the market has decided the product is worth the price.

You know what when I first heard the information about

"real money auction house"

I was not thrilled, it was not a deal breaker for me cause I rarely use the AH in games to buy stuff anyhow. I just a step above casual gamer. I love to explore, lvl up, and while I get very excited when I get a rare item I never obssessed over getting all super rare stuff. So the information about "real money AH" was not a deal breaker for me.

However, everyone is so busy whining about this little bit of information that they are completly overlooking or outright ignoring people that are trying to tell you

"HEY THERE IS A IN-GAME CURRENCY AUCTION HOUSE OPTION"

here is a link for those that wish to have reading material about the auction house in Diablo 3

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/services/auction-house/

And before anyone thinks to troll or be snarky yes I am well aware that the new Diablo 3 -battle.net  set is rather recent. If you don't want to participate in real game currency you don't have to. You can use the in-game currency auction house instead.

So there is one arugment against this game shot down. If you don't like the path Blizzard is taking with this game don't buy it. It is that simple.

Torchlight II won't be knocking Diablo 3 off its pedestal at any point in this lifetime. It's worth noting that Torchlight sold 1 million copies in its first two years, a feat Diablo 2 accomplished within two weeks of release. 

For someone who likes to throw random insults like *dumb people*and generalize everyone, i am guessing you consider yourself quite smart and intelligent? if yes how come you are even unable to spell right? i don't know any smart people who can't even spell 'greatest'.

 Intelligence comes in many forms bud. Sorry I didn't use my spell check

And I'm sorry but anybody who can spend $25.00 on a mount for a game that they pay $15.00 a month for, is a dumbass in my book

each to their own

$25 to many people is spare change. Intelligent people understand that disposable income varies from person to person. What you see as dumb, others see as 'meh, why not, it's only $XX'.

 Wow someone said it!! I've tried saying this before but usually come off as rude.. 

Like, some rapper somewhere said (i swear he did)

"it ain't trickin if you got it"  Thanks rapper whos name escapes me atm... Im gonna quote you.

Back when I played Wow, way before the sparkly horse debacle. I wished they had awesome mounts for RL money.. maybe not THAT horse but ya know.. a cooler guy horse :P

Originally posted by alunadriea

You know what when I first heard the information about

"real money auction house"

 

I was not thrilled, it was not a deal breaker for me cause I rarely use the AH in games to buy stuff anyhow. I just a step above casual gamer. I love to explore, lvl up, and while I get very excited when I get a rare item I never obssessed over getting all super rare stuff. So the information about "real money AH" was not a deal breaker for me.

 

However, everyone is so busy whining about this little bit of information that they are completly overlooking or outright ignoring people that are trying to tell you

"HEY THERE IS A IN-GAME CURRENCY AUCTION HOUSE OPTION"

here is a link for those that wish to have reading material about the auction house in Diablo 3

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/services/auction-house/

 

And before anyone thinks to troll or be snarky yes I am well aware that the new Diablo 3 -battle.net  set is rather recent. If you don't want to participate in real game currency you don't have to. You can use the in-game currency auction house instead.

 

So there is one arugment against this game shot down. If you don't like the path Blizzard is taking with this game don't buy it. It is that simple.

great now Blizzard is bringing in viral marketers to defend their crap...

Whatever happened to the real Blizzard the new one is not even a shadow of its former self just an endless greedy activisioned company which doesn't even give a rats butt about gamers.

Originally posted by quentin405

For someone who likes to throw random insults like *dumb people*and generalize everyone, i am guessing you consider yourself quite smart and intelligent? if yes how come you are even unable to spell right? i don't know any smart people who can't even spell 'greatest'.

 Intelligence comes in many forms bud. Sorry I didn't use my spell check

And I'm sorry but anybody who can spend $25.00 on a mount for a game that they pay $15.00 a month for, is a dumbass in my book

each to their own

$25 to many people is spare change. Intelligent people understand that disposable income varies from person to person. What you see as dumb, others see as 'meh, why not, it's only $XX'.

 Wow someone said it!! I've tried saying this before but usually come off as rude.. 

Like, some rapper somewhere said (i swear he did)

"it ain't trickin if you got it"  Thanks rapper whos name escapes me atm... Im gonna quote you.

Back when I played Wow, way before the sparkly horse debacle. I wished they had awesome mounts for RL money.. maybe not THAT horse but ya know.. a cooler guy horse :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SUQTWHqTzE&feature=related Muller?

Premium items make little effect on me. If it's something I want, I'll probably buy it. Generally the highest I'll pay for a virtual item is $10.

Originally posted by DerWotan

Originally posted by alunadriea

You know what when I first heard the information about

"real money auction house"

 

I was not thrilled, it was not a deal breaker for me cause I rarely use the AH in games to buy stuff anyhow. I just a step above casual gamer. I love to explore, lvl up, and while I get very excited when I get a rare item I never obssessed over getting all super rare stuff. So the information about "real money AH" was not a deal breaker for me.

 

However, everyone is so busy whining about this little bit of information that they are completly overlooking or outright ignoring people that are trying to tell you

"HEY THERE IS A IN-GAME CURRENCY AUCTION HOUSE OPTION"

here is a link for those that wish to have reading material about the auction house in Diablo 3

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/services/auction-house/

 

And before anyone thinks to troll or be snarky yes I am well aware that the new Diablo 3 -battle.net  set is rather recent. If you don't want to participate in real game currency you don't have to. You can use the in-game currency auction house instead.

 

So there is one arugment against this game shot down. If you don't like the path Blizzard is taking with this game don't buy it. It is that simple.

 

great now Blizzard is bringing in viral marketers to defend their crap...

Whatever happened to the real Blizzard the new one is not even a shadow of its former self just an endless greedy activisioned company which doesn't even give a rats butt about gamers.

Viral marketer? Now that is funny.  Next I bet your going to say I am a lacky for the NWO agenda.

Whoa-ho-ho! Hate much? Look I've played both Torchlight (Fate knockoff) and Diablo. I can say that I enjoyed D1 and D2 waaay more than Torchlight. But I'll still be getting Torchlight 2 because it has a certain "charm" to it. That said I can honestly say that Blizzard success is a directly relates to their tradition of games made by gamers. Just take a peek at their mission statement:

HERE

Or take a tour of their company HQ:

HERE

These are clearly the business practices of a company who cares about their employees, players and the industry. Ok look at it this way:

As a kid say you had your own room that was your pride and joy. You kept your room just the way you liked it and decorated perfectly to suit your needs. Then you go off to college and now you have roommates. So you have a little more space you're responsible for and it makes it that much harder to keep on top of every little thing AND your own room but somehow you manage to do it.

Now skip ahead 4+ years and you're in your own home with ALL responsiblities of maintaining, cleaning and overall order to not just a single room (like when you were a kid) or a small area/place (like with a dorm or apartment), but a whole freakin house! And things always...ALWAYS seem to need attention. But with a good crew (wife and kids) and some dedication, you can have a descent home to invite friends to hang out at without losing full control.

This is how I've seen Blizzard grow over the years. They may not be that same indie company struggling for revenue from 20+ years ago. And they may not be as edgy or risk-taking as they were. But who can blame them. I mean you wouldn't expect adults to decorate their whole homes the way they did as kids would you? As you grow, your way of thinking grows as well. Even for a company like Blzzard. But they have still managed to embrace their inner geek, so to speak. And they are the ones that put the Blizzard in the phrase "Blizzard polish"

You can only hope that you maintain your identity as well as Blizzard has after coming back from the brink of death as a company and growing by leaps and bounds...

Originally posted by Happyguy83

WTF is a torchlight 2?

-Everyone not on MMORPG.com

 hmmm... http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Torchlight+2

Originally posted by Ramonski7

Whoa-ho-ho! Hate much? Look I've played both Torchlight (Fate knockoff) and Diablo. I can say that I enjoyed D1 and D2 waaay more than Torchlight. But I'll still be getting Torchlight 2 because it has a certain "charm" to it. That said I can honestly say that Blizzard success is a directly relates to their tradition of games made by gamers. Just take a peek at their mission statement:

 You know i had forgot all about Fate and now that you mention it they are quite similar.

Originally posted by laserit

Originally posted by Sovrath

That's not how it works.

They are offered a contract and they have to make certain company benchmarks depending on what goals for growth the company establishes as well as how much profit they need to make. For instance, they may or may not make their quarterly/yearly sales but they can maintain aggressive growth.

If they can bring in x amount of dollars and maintain growth then they are rewarded for it. Of course this depends on their contract as well. Essentially if they make money for their investors they get bonuses.

These companies are not clubs, they are businesses.

LOL these days you can lose multi billions and still get a nice fat bonus.

Alot of these corporations, not nessecarilly speaking about Blizzard here are clubs

As I said, it depends on their contracts.

They are hired to do x job but they could have something in their contract that certain bonuses still need to be paid regardless of performance. However, if they fail to perform over a period of time then they can be removed by the board. They could also have stipulations in their contracts for what is essentially referred to as a "golden parachute".

Look this is just the way it works. if it sounds too good to be true then by all means, work your way up to one of these positions.

If you don't like how it works then dont' work for large companies or don't support companies you dont' like. Their allegiance is always going to be to their stock holders.

I've worked for several large companies and in the end they were always working for the financial health of the organization. It wasn't a club with their customers though they did whatever they could to help their customers.

 Happy to hear you worked for a good company, they are out there. But there's no denying that there is alot of stinker's out there too, that will sell their own mother to make a buck.

But that goes to my point...

It doesn't matter how "nice" some companies are or how well they treat their employees or customers. Heck, my current company treats its employees like gold. It's practically the best place I've ever worked.

However, they are just as quick to lay off an employee if they don't require their services anymore.

I was laid off of my last job because, though their product pipeline was strong and they were financially sound, their sales slowed by 11% that year. So they laid off 7 or so employees. The mandate was that the company should make every effort to find places for as many laid off employees as possible. It is a global company so had many divisions.

was it personal? No. Business.

Same with Blizzard, EA-activision, "whatever". They are now a publicly traded company and publicly traded companies are first and foremost mandated to make money for thier investors.

That's not saying they are all good companies or can all succeed. But it's pretty cut and dried. They will come up with as many products and services that they believe can fill active, viable markets.

So yeah, companies exist to make money. Whether its socks, cars or Video games.