Originally posted by Chilliesauce

Originally posted by Scambug

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Scambug

I believe they're holding back on game reveals because they're noticing an increasing concern about the game being no more than a WoW rip. Revealing more of the current content would only make things worse.

If I were in their shoes , I'd start working double time on world PvP content and stop the information flow until they have a top notch system in place...Even if that means delaying release even further.

A solid ( dare I say original ) world PvP system would give this game a little more personality and would tone down the WOW clone accusations.

"People" and yes that is in quotes will call anything a "WoW-clone" these days.

The term has no meaning and no credibility.

The term has a perfectly clear meaning: it's what you call a game that rips 90% of its gameplay from WoW.

And it's perfectly credible when applied to games such as Rift and TOR.

Wether you're in denial or just don't like your favourite game being criticized is another matter.

90%? do you even think before you start typing or you just love making a fool of yourself like yesterday when you told me i will get banned because i mentioned i am in beta. And when a guy posted link with credible info that you are wrong you just disappeared. After calling everyone ignorant, atleast own up when you are wrong.

Why you do this? 90% of gameplay from WOW? so you are telling me that all the other features from SWTOR can be fit into just 10%?

Well I disappeared because I got a 1 day ban yesterday , shortly after getting owned in that thread - for a post in another thread.

Yeah I was wrong, it happens.

The fact that you guys are going ape sh1t on the 90% (when it's pretty obvious what I meant was "the great majority") just shows how desperate you are to discredit anyone who dares critize TOR, and that's quite pathetic.

Now that's the last time I answer one of your posts, you're seriously starting to get on my nerves there buddy.

Originally posted by Bunnyking

Ok first things first; Yes, I was also disappointed by the lack of any substantial info on SWTOR at GamesCon... HOWEVER... It's not necessary AT ALL to keep talking about GW2 in a SWTOR article. That game is its own game. One has nothing to do with the other.

THAT makes me say that yes you are biased towards SWTOR, even though you have 2 pre-orders. Spreading word of your disappointment, that's your right. But in that same article praising GW2, a game I by the way start to loathe more and more each day, is just bull5=!7.

The Guild Wars 2 community has got Grotar86. The SW:TOR Community has got you. Seems pretty equal to me.

Originally posted by Scambug

Well I disappeared because I got a 1 day ban yesterday , shortly after getting owned in that thread - for a post in another thread.

Yeah I was wrong, it happens.

The fact that you guys are going ape sh1t on the 90% (when it's pretty obvious what I meant was "the great majority") just shows how desperate you are to discredit anyone who dares critize TOR.

Now that's the last time I answer one of your posts, you're seriously starting to get on my nerves there buddy.

Not to be the old guy in the thread, but couldn't you say the same about WoW when it was released. 90% of it was like EQ. Pretty sure we beat this horse to death. It is a called a genre. All these games in this genre look the same WoW/Rift/SWToR/EQ

The important part is what does Bioware do with the game after it is launched. Do they pull a WoW and stagnate or do they pull a Rift and start introducing other stuff...AA...more housing options..free server x-fers <--this is all stuff SWToR can do to distinquish the game

Originally posted by Scambug

 

Yeah I was wrong, it happens.

The fact that you guys are going ape sh1t on the 90% (when it's pretty obvious what I meant was "the great majority") just shows how desperate you are to discredit anyone who dares critize TOR.

Now that's the last time I answer one of your posts, you're seriously starting to get on my nerves there buddy.

Criticise on facts and reliable opinion is what i call criticism no matter what game. Made up stats and lies are not appreciated by anyone. Try doing this on any game forum and people will respond in similar manner. This is not just about SWTOR but desperate attempts of spreading wrong information to make game look bad which you obviously haven't played.

The info that Ive seen on ToR is more than enough. But for someone that has already played multiple aspects of the game (like MikeB) I can see how this is not satisfying. I jave all the info I need to be hyped about the game and ready to dig in. We know about almost every feature that will be in game at launch. While nice, I dont really need to actually see hands on demos with every single feature of ToR. Id like to experience things like that for the first time myself. I enjoy reading interviews more than anything else at these events and there are a LOT of those.

Originally posted by Scambug

Originally posted by BadSpock

"People" and yes that is in quotes will call anything a "WoW-clone" these days.

The term has no meaning and no credibility.

The term has a perfectly clear meaning: it's what you call a game that rips 90% of its gameplay from WoW.

And it's perfectly credible when applied to games such as Rift and TOR.

Wether you're in denial or just don't like your favourite game being criticized is another matter.

Naah, 'WoW clone' is just a term that's over 90% used by purely critics and 'haters'/opponents of this or that game, people who in general look down on themepark MMO's and who use that term to express their scorn and disgust with MMO's that fall into that - funnily enough most popular - MMO genre

To some people, all themepark MMO's are 'WoW clones' to a lesser or larger degree.

Originally posted by Fratman

You're happy that ToR is a WoW clone even though you're bored with WoW at the moment?

You'll have about 2 good months with ToR before you realize all you're doing is raiding for purples at endgame, just like you do in WoW.  Yeah, the epic gear is purple in ToR as well. That's because Bioware thought people like you might get confused if they used a different color.

Here's a concept that might be hard to understand for some people, but I'm going to give it a try.

Some people might have grown bored with WoW but not with themepark MMO's.

Just like some people might have grown bored with MW2 but not with shooters.

That's why you see people who have grown bored with WoW still enjoy themselves in Rift, LotrO, AoC, Aion, etc.

See? That was the concept. I hope I made it plain enough to understand to people for whom this idea might be new and innovative.

Originally posted by Bunnyking

Ok first things first; Yes, I was also disappointed by the lack of any substantial info on SWTOR at GamesCon... HOWEVER... It's not necessary AT ALL to keep talking about GW2 in a SWTOR article. That game is its own game. One has nothing to do with the other.

THAT makes me say that yes you are biased towards SWTOR, even though you have 2 pre-orders. Spreading word of your disappointment, that's your right. But in that same article praising GW2, a game I by the way start to loathe more and more each day, is just bull5=!7.

Expectations are high for SWTOR so i can't blame mmorpg.com staff for being disappointed with lack of any new information. Hell i was disappointed considering i went there and came back empty handed. I was really stoked and got zero new info.

I don't know from where you got this idea that they are biase towards SWTOR. He is disappointed in lack of new info and not the game itself.

The revealing of Huttball was definitely a downpoint for me. 

Originally posted by Puremallace

Not to be the old guy in the thread, but couldn't you say the same about WoW when it was released. 90% of it was like EQ. Pretty sure we beat this horse to death. It is a called a genre. All these games in this genre look the same WoW/Rift/SWToR/EQ

The important part is what does Bioware do with the game after it is launched. Do they pull a WoW and stagnate or do they pull a Rift and start introducing other stuff...AA...more housing options..free server x-fers <--this is all stuff SWToR can do to distinquish the game

I like this, I'm going to use this...

@ the writer of this article. Every studio releases info at their own pace to suit their needs, continuing to compare this game to this or that game will do nothing more than foster more animosity between playerbases. Truth is you won't know much about the details you are yearning for until the game is ready to go gold.Just wait and see how many things announced "change" from this point to launch of GW2 and you will see why BioWare is doing what they are doing with info flow. It's still in testing, feedback is important, nuff said.

Ever since the announcement of the game they've presented nothing but disappointment after disappointment.  The killer, for me, was what they did to space combat.  I'm sorry, but no on rails flying game will be better than free flight.  It might be more cinematic, but that doesn't mean it's better.

A bunch of my friends are pre-ordering.  I can't justify it for myself...

Originally posted by tshack88

Ever since the announcement of the game they've presented nothing but disappointment after disappointment.  The killer, for me, was what they did to space combat.  I'm sorry, but no on rails flying game will be better than free flight.  It might be more cinematic, but that doesn't mean it's better.

A bunch of my friends are pre-ordering.  I can't justify it for myself...

Again, it's in testing, and feedback is important enough for them that they aren't going to give everyone all the juicy bits unti they are ready. They aren't doing it to be mean you know.

Originally posted by Alot

Originally posted by Chilliesauce

Originally posted by Grotar89

Originally posted by Puremallace

Originally posted by Grotar89

Make WoW clone with VO

Hype it with cinematics that have no connection with gameplay

Repeat SW and BW always

Give players small info so they cant realise it is WoW Clone

Sell 2 milion copies, achieve financial succes and go WAR path.

 

Dont say you havent been warned !!!

Remake an entire game that milions quit

Repeat dynamic over and over with little to no real details

Use hype words and personel story whenever possible and never give any details

Say buy to play in every other sentence

 

AMIDOINGITRIGHT?

 

Oh GW2 is no clone. It has more info than TOR which should launch soon, and yes it is B2P and it will beat TOR hard.

 

Also GW2 hype is more than justified? I dont think TORs hype is....

 

Also will quote your post and laugh when TOR fails be prepared dont say you havent been warned.

I am really excited about GW2 but when i read comments like this, it is the community which worries me. The thought of being surrounded by such obnoxious players really bothers me (You do realize that SW:TOR has also got these people in abundance?). Reminds me so much of WOW community full of self centered and over confident players who just can't accept that anything else can be better than their beloved game.

I believe Grotar does the same on the official SW:TOR forums, although I haven't seen him on GW2Guru.

Oh yes i m on GW2guru aswell but I m not so negative tthere coz i dont have alot to complain about. On the other hand TOR forums are really nice place for laugh, when you see amount off misinformation, hate that is dericted to other MMOs.

Mostly about GW2 but TSW and WoW are getting thier share aswell. Also half the TOR forums refuse to even think that their games is doing smth wrong...

I played EVE Online for the first 3 months after it came out, and after that I pretty much hated PVP. The videos I saw from Gamescon of TOR's PVP is the first time I have been excited to PVP since! I am actually looking forward to the Warzones in TOR! I can hardly believe it!

Sure, I want more information, and I really hope that PAX doesn't disappoint, but for me personally, Gamescon was well worth it.

Originally posted by Grotar89

Originally posted by Alot

Originally posted by Chilliesauce

Originally posted by Grotar89

Originally posted by Puremallace

Originally posted by Grotar89

Make WoW clone with VO

Hype it with cinematics that have no connection with gameplay

Repeat SW and BW always

Give players small info so they cant realise it is WoW Clone

Sell 2 milion copies, achieve financial succes and go WAR path.

 

Dont say you havent been warned !!!

Remake an entire game that milions quit

Repeat dynamic over and over with little to no real details

Use hype words and personel story whenever possible and never give any details

Say buy to play in every other sentence

 

AMIDOINGITRIGHT?

 

Oh GW2 is no clone. It has more info than TOR which should launch soon, and yes it is B2P and it will beat TOR hard.

 

Also GW2 hype is more than justified? I dont think TORs hype is....

 

Also will quote your post and laugh when TOR fails be prepared dont say you havent been warned.

I am really excited about GW2 but when i read comments like this, it is the community which worries me. The thought of being surrounded by such obnoxious players really bothers me (You do realize that SW:TOR has also got these people in abundance?). Reminds me so much of WOW community full of self centered and over confident players who just can't accept that anything else can be better than their beloved game.

I believe Grotar does the same on the official SW:TOR forums, although I haven't seen him on GW2Guru.

Oh yes i m on GW2guru aswell but I m not so negative tthere coz i dont have alot to complain about. On the other hand TOR forums are really nice place for laugh, when you see amount off misinformation, hate that is dericted to other MMOs.

Mostly about GW2 but TSW and WoW are getting thier share aswell. Also half the TOR forums refuse to even think that their games is doing smth wrong...

Only time I see this is when someone comes in to troll. For the most part a lot of people were looking forward to playing both GW2 and SWTOR (yes you can enjoy more than one MMO), but now the folks who are die hard GW2 trolls are driving a lot of us who were looking forward to GW2 away.

Originally posted by Puremallace

Originally posted by Scambug

Well I disappeared because I got a 1 day ban yesterday , shortly after getting owned in that thread - for a post in another thread.

Yeah I was wrong, it happens.

The fact that you guys are going ape sh1t on the 90% (when it's pretty obvious what I meant was "the great majority") just shows how desperate you are to discredit anyone who dares critize TOR.

Now that's the last time I answer one of your posts, you're seriously starting to get on my nerves there buddy.

Not to be the old guy in the thread, but couldn't you say the same about WoW when it was released. 90% of it was like EQ. Pretty sure we beat this horse to death. It is a called a genre. All these games in this genre look the same WoW/Rift/SWToR/EQ

I can only speak for the games I've played and I never played EQ 1.

I just don't buy the "genre" argument. There's an infinite number of ways to design a MMORPG, even a themepark. 

Take a game like LIneage 2 and compare it to WoW, then compare WoW to Rift. You can't honestly say that they all follow the same standards.

You might argue that L2 isn't a themepark but it is , very clearly. There are zero sandbox elements in that game.

L2 for example has no instanced PvP and an elaborate crafting system. Who ever said themeparks needed instanced small scale PvP? Who ever said themeparks needed a dumbed downed and useless crafting system?

WoW's success did.

What you people see as themepark standards (beyond stuff like action bars and chat boxes) are no more than WoW features (not saying WoW invented them) that every dev and their grandmothers are ripping in a desperate attempt to make a smash hit MMO. That's my opinion.

Now you're right, there's no real point in having this conversation yet again. We'll just have to agree to disagree, I guess.

Originally posted by Chilliesauce

Originally posted by Grotar89

Oh yes i m on GW2guru aswell but I m not so negative tthere coz i dont have alot to complain about. On the other hand TOR forums are really nice place for laugh, when you see amount off misinformation, hate that is dericted to other MMOs.

Mostly about GW2 but TSW and WoW are getting thier share aswell. Also half the TOR forums refuse to even think that their games is doing smth wrong...

I post regularly on TOR forums and majority of times players discuss good and bad points about SWTOR

And when some says smth bad discusion goes like this:

This is not SWG. Its Star Wars. Its Bioware they cant fail. If u want space combat dont play this game, See u at launch bro.

We dont need appeareance tab it sucks. Trinity is there coz it is the only working mehanic other MMOs that dont use it all failed.

And pretty much all like artstyle and char models/armors even though they are nothing like KOTOR nor any previuos SW game, and yes they are far more similar to WoW than to SW.

Originally posted by Puremallace

Originally posted by Scambug

Well I disappeared because I got a 1 day ban yesterday , shortly after getting owned in that thread - for a post in another thread.

Yeah I was wrong, it happens.

The fact that you guys are going ape sh1t on the 90% (when it's pretty obvious what I meant was "the great majority") just shows how desperate you are to discredit anyone who dares critize TOR.

Now that's the last time I answer one of your posts, you're seriously starting to get on my nerves there buddy.

Not to be the old guy in the thread, but couldn't you say the same about WoW when it was released. 90% of it was like EQ. Pretty sure we beat this horse to death. It is a called a genre. All these games in this genre look the same WoW/Rift/SWToR/EQ

 

The important part is what does Bioware do with the game after it is launched. Do they pull a WoW and stagnate or do they pull a Rift and start introducing other stuff...AA...more housing options..free server x-fers <--this is all stuff SWToR can do to distinquish the game

 I have never understood the notion that WoW is an EQ clone.  Maybe it's all a question of degree, but I honestly don't see it.  WoW is quest based, EQ is grind based with few quests.  EQ has contested dungeons (variable instanced later), WoW has all instanced (sprawling at first, then linear).  EQ you have a limited number of skills at a time, WoW you have everything.  EQ has a harsh death penalty and corpse retrieval, WoW has armor degradation and a ghost walk back.  EQ is group based, WoW is solo.  I'm sure I could find a bunch of things that WoW did like and copied from EQ, but there's obviously a bunch of substantial gameplay features they didn't like.

Whether you agree with even the notion of calling something a WoW clone or not, it's clear to me that Rift in particular used it as a starting point.  Compare the Rift UI to WoW's UI.  Very similar (and entirely unlike EQ's).  Holy trinity gameplay, global cooldown, linear instanced dungeons.  They added rifts and invasions, but they did it to supplement a very similar quest based structure.  They added the soul system, but it comes across as a much more flexible version of WoW's talent trees.

That isn't to say that there aren't other innovations as well, but in my opinion, the difference between WoW and EQ is enormous compared to the difference between WoW and Rift.

It was an opportunity missed, but the way information about this game spreads every time they release something is pretty much viral.  No matter when or where they release game information, they will get plenty of media and fan input.  So it is not necessary to release info at big media events.

They have all the candy, and pretty much everyone is standing around with their tongues out waiting for a treat.

Originally posted by tillamook

 

Only time I see this is when someone comes in to troll. For the most part a lot of people were looking forward to playing both GW2 and SWTOR (yes you can enjoy more than one MMO), but now the folks who are die hard GW2 trolls are driving a lot of us who were looking forward to GW2 away.