Originally posted by MMOExposed
Hey what's this talk about a new zone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhUxInV8sgw

I assume the idea was the keep us out of there, but it appeared on the pts one day and ever since then even with insivible walls people have spent a lot of time trying to get there.

It is the size of Shimmersand + Stillmoor combined it seems.

Originally posted by mf16

Originally posted by Khrymson

I agree entirely with what Z3R01 is saying.  Why can't we solo and smaller group casual players not have access to some nice high end gear too, as long as we go through a lengthy series of quests or events to obtain it.

 

And to answer your question "Puremallace" ~why do we want high end raid gear if we're not raiding~, well obviously to be on par with other players and not feel left out of the best stuff.  Every MMO since forever has been about gear once you get to the end game, even more so since WoW.  Why is the entire game based on solo and small group content, but as soon as you hit end game you're forced to raid in large groups only.  There needs to be solo and small group options for the best stuff too, and they just have to add in appropriate time sinks to even it out.

And I'm even ok with them making the pure raid gear slightly better looking and of more vibrant colors, than the stuff from solo / small group.  That way, the raider that thinks they're all that and a bag of chips stand out a little still.  I don't give a crap, I just want some high end gear with great stats.

 

To answer further why I'd want it if I'm not going up against raid encounters, why not!?  Why not have that great gear to go back and destroy older content for the fun of it, or slaughter an NM or other mobs that may have given you trouble while leveling, or even an instance.  And here is an open world example regarding PvP, and PvP Rifting ~ Lets say little ole me is engaging in some PvP rifts, doing fine against other players similar to my situation of having basic gear.  Then along come the hardcore raiders, in far better gear, that we do not have, will never have and they steamroll us, over and over again.  Thats not very fair, the only way for us to compete with that is being forced to raid.  

 

So yeah, there needs to be options for us to get equivalent gear for our desired playstyle...

I think the answer is simple then no one would do the raiding, seriously why do a 20 man if you can do a 5 man for the same gear and thus raiding would cease to exist or become rare in the game.  You'd get gear so much faster because your also in only a group of 5 people.

Most raiders I've heard says they dont do it for the gear, but to complete group content. It's the people who scream that they want to do only group content in mmo's. Also casuals/soloers/small groups are so big part of the community that they really shouldnt be left out feeling they are second citizens or less important than anyone else. Just give lengthy solo/small group content with almost as good rewards as raiding and everyone should be happy unless they are lying.

Sure pve gear is crap in pvp, but who does better: A casual who has casual gear entering the pvp scheme, or a raider who has raiding gear entering the pvp scheme, yes the raid gear is WAY better than some random gear.

In all honesty I think most of the raiding community just thinks so damn highly of them self for completing the end-game stuff, that they come up with any excuse for everyone else not to be able to be competitive in same manner unless with raiding only (which makes it also a lot harder to enter raiding "later on"). I did raid in mmo's before I got a 3 shift job, it was fun and easy with a good guild, no we didnt get "server firsts" but we came close behind with not too much effort. Would I have cared if some soloers/casuals had almost as good gear as I did for some lengthy non-raid or alternate content? No. Why should I? I dont get it. I raided because it was fun to be in the "raiding game" and check which guilds we beat etc, and just generally for having awesome guild.

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

Originally posted by Heretique

Hate to say it but - yawn.

Ya know. I agree.  I really enjoyd my journey in Rift.

 

But this is the expecation and what gets giddy applause?  A couple more single-player dungeon content elements and a 10-player Raid? Really?  I thought this was a massively-multiplayer online RPG, but as with many of its' counterparts, is acting like a single-player redundantly instanced lobby-system rpg with a few maps that your encouraged to grind ad nauseum for $15 bucks per month?

 

No, Im not paying to play this any more, and for obvious reasons.  Part of me should be happy, though, that this fills a niche.

I think you just answered my personal question as to why I play mmo's... What you said right there pretty much sums up EVERY mmo. WHY can't we EVER have an mmo 'RPG', the RPG often feels gone in mmo's today. It's all grind this, grind that, why can't we kill 10x of something because we feel conntected to the story line? It's all 'sup bro kill 10x and I'll give you this', their's no consequence and you can continue progressing through the game without the completion of said quest.

Take obvlivion for example, when their is the attack at Kvatch, you can't progress through the story until you clear the whole city out. But if it was an mmo, there would be a quest giver outside kvatch, you run in, clear it, 10 minutes later everything has respawned and the player next to you is doing the same thing. While I understand that it's an mmo, but developers need to think outside of the box, and provide DYNAMIC content, not static. Dynamic content = MASSIVE replayability.

In a nutshell. BEST MMO = VARIETY + DYNAMIC CONTENT

3 pages of focusing on 1 out of 5 new things coming to the game. We can debate Hardcore vs Casual until we die of old age, but we do have to agree that atleast Trion is attempting incorporate casuals into the raiding scene.

I mean last i checked Blizzard said screw that years ago. Advance on what we consider the right approach and if you do not like it unsub and go play something else while they maintain a monopoly meaning their are no options to go to for a qualitiy dev.

Would we be looking at solo/duo instances in Rift if GW2 was not gaining so much hype for more casual content? Would WoW be getting a wardrobe NPC after 7 years if Rift had not come along or SWToR/GW2 had come along? It does seem like devs in the past few years have been hesitant to include casuals like Trion is attempting too.

Trion is doing this from scratch honestly. Yes LOTR has skirmishes, but are they smaller versions of 20man raids?? They have rumors about how GW2 will work and some screen shots and here say, but nothing about itemization or details as to "why will someone want to do this?". People can go ahead and try and right it off or whatever, but I get the feeling this is going to go over in an incredible way.

To the people who think removing the carrot or just giving the carrot away do not get how P2P mmo's work and are apparenrly far to used to F2P or B2P mmo models. Your statements make this very obvious to me where 15$ is not that much whatsoever a month and having to earn my gear is appealing.

You guys are arguing something you lost years ago. Go ask the 11.1 million people still playing WoW how they feel about this. They might say they hate it, but every month for 7 years they have subbed to this model of gaming. What is this dream MMO that works like that even coming close?

For those of you arguing gear for little to no effort all I have to say is this. It has and always will apply and I do not agree.

So I watched the entire video now, and I'm really really liking where Trion is going with Rift.  I would still like to see we solo/small group players having more options, but if Trion continues to expand on this new path and make the current raid/storylines available for all playstyles, then I'll be more than content!

Its just there are so many MMOs where there is tons of additonal story and lore at end-game, but I've always been left out of it cause it was raid only.  Having to resort to watching someone else having fun experiencing it on YouTube, just to see it.  I used to raid back-in-the-day for EQ, FFXI, DAoC and I'm just spent on that type of content.  I just don't have the patience for it, plus I have qutie a few distractions at my age now and I can't dedicate 6-10hrs a night like I used too.

So yeah, huge applause for Trion ~ keep up with the addition of awesome new features.  Pretty sure I'll be returning to Telara for the 1/2 yr B-Day event then resubscribe starting on Sept 1st and start playing towards lvl 50 again...

Originally posted by Z3R01

Originally posted by Puremallace

You did not click on the link did you and actually watch the video  right? The new Master Mode 5 mans give T1 raid gear and are current 5mans kicked up a nothc on difficulty and have extra bosses added for extreme mode.

 

They talked about it for like 5 minutes in the video. Basically exactly what you are asking for.

Thats not good enough...

T1 raid shit! Who gives a shit master modes will be the hardest content in the game for 5 man players if they are even slightly harder than pre-nerf dungeons they should give hammerknell type gear. 

Again why must I be a second class player because i choose to play in a smaller group?

 

That entire interview made me sick. "the raiders get the best content and then we toss everyone else a bone little by little" He could go F*** himself!

This is it exactly Z3R01.  They can make all the second class solo/duo content they want, but I'm not subbing back to the game for a second class experience.  I like to group if I want to, with my friends or guildies, not because I have to.

I'm not going to pay them $15/mo to have them throw me a bone for a second rate game experience and then thank them like they've done me a favor.  They still don't get it.  Too bad, try again.

So if someone likes to raid and do full size grouping then 1.5, 1.6, 1.7 are probably OMG!!111eleventyone!11!!  Then again, if you're a raider this game is already an OMG treadmill of "fun".  For me, not so much.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

This is it exactly Z3R01.  They can make all the second class solo/duo content they want, but I'm not subbing back to the game for a second class experience.  I like to group if I want to, with my friends or guildies, not because I have to.

I'm not going to pay them $15/mo to have them throw me a bone for a second rate game experience and then thank them like they've done me a favor.  They still don't get it.  Too bad, try again.

So if someone likes to raid and do full size grouping then 1.5, 1.6, 1.7 are probably OMG!!111eleventyone!11!!  Then again, if you're a raider this game is already an OMG treadmill of "fun".  For me, not so much.

So they release solo content and you are mad? Your excuses for trying to right this game off are sort of ridiculous...blah blah blah they have large scale pve content and that makes you angry.

You know there is a question I am waiting for GW2 fans to answer and I doubt it will ever happen. Why can there be large 40v40 pvp battles, but when it comes to large scale instance pve content people just get so offended. Have elitist from WoW just absolutely described this genre of game?

The super hardcore have their raid with Hammerknell. Let them go bash their heads in there and have fun. They are giving casuals a crap ton of stuff to do and people are mad that their are raids in the game?? You want super duper raid gear AND YOU DO NOT RAID. This debate is on the verge of sounding like insanity. You wan gear you will never use because someone else has it.

I honestly hope they never listen to you because this smells of trying to mix this console fps/rts crap into a MMORPG and the day it happens this genre is dead. There will no longer be reward for time invested anymore. Everything will just be handed to you with little to no effort and the entire point of MMORP's will be gone.

Like I said I know it is real hip to troll Rift threads, but if you want to fanboi the system you are asking for take it to the GW2 sub forums because Rift is not that game. You guys are simply trying to remove the MMO from MMORPG. "I do not want to have to work with anyone else to have the best gear in the game" <---that is all I hear and it will never happen.  If you need a guild then come to Millrush and join Heroic and learn that raiding is not the most evil thing ever invented.

Originally posted by Puremallace

Originally posted by Torvaldr

This is it exactly Z3R01.  They can make all the second class solo/duo content they want, but I'm not subbing back to the game for a second class experience.  I like to group if I want to, with my friends or guildies, not because I have to.

I'm not going to pay them $15/mo to have them throw me a bone for a second rate game experience and then thank them like they've done me a favor.  They still don't get it.  Too bad, try again.

So if someone likes to raid and do full size grouping then 1.5, 1.6, 1.7 are probably OMG!!111eleventyone!11!!  Then again, if you're a raider this game is already an OMG treadmill of "fun".  For me, not so much.

So they release solo content and you are mad? Your excuses for trying to right this game off are sort of ridiculous...blah blah blah they have large scale pve content and that makes you angry.

 

You know there is a question I am waiting for GW2 fans to answer and I doubt it will ever happen. Why can there be large 40v40 pvp battles, but when it comes to large scale instance pve content people just get so offended. Have elitist from WoW just absolutely described this genre of game?

 

The super hardcore have their raid with Hammerknell. Let them go bash their heads in there and have fun. They are giving casuals a crap ton of stuff to do and people are mad that their are raids in the game?? You want super duper raid gear AND YOU DO NOT RAID. This debate is on the verge of sounding like insanity. You wan gear you will never use because someone else has it.

 

I honestly hope they never listen to you because this smells of trying to mix this console fps/rts crap into a MMORPG and the day it happens this genre is dead. There will no longer be reward for time invested anymore. Everything will just be handed to you with little to no effort and the entire point of MMORP's will be gone.

 

Like I said I know it is real hip to troll Rift threads, but if you want to fanboi the system you are asking for take it to the GW2 sub forums because Rift is not that game.

I'm not mad at all.  You're the one that seems very defensive.  We all have our opinions.

Anway, I'm not excited about what I see coming down their development pipeline.  I see what they're offering as throwing solo/duo/small group players a bone.  From their interview the way they even refer to "casuals" and the content they're delivering for "casuals" is lame.  I have news for them; there is a lot more to hardcore players than facerolling in raids.  Some raiders might be hardcore, but there are hardcore players who never raid and feel that sort of content is boring.

I don't really care if they listen to players like myself or not.  I gave them my feedback in the exit poll.  If they want to list then fine.  If not that's okay too.  They arne't obligated to make the game I want.  I'm also not obligated to get stoked about game changes that don't excite me, or subscribe to their game.  It's just more feedback for them and that is one thing Trion seems to do well, and that is integrate feedback into their game.  If they want the solo - small group demographic then they will need to provide content that group is willing to pay for.  Maybe what they're offering is good enough for most soloers, but it's not good enough for me.

By the way it's bad form to call people trolls, tell them to get out, or call them names just because they don't agree with you or have a critical opinion of topic.

Your essentially asking them to give someone who plays 2 hours week the exact same gear as someone who plays maybe 30 hours a week? I suggest you never play any Korean game or you are really in for a real shock on how they run their games.

If I could get everything in two hours that I used to have to earn in 40 why would I log on more then 2 hours a week? I think you are seriously forgetting why people stop playing console games and they have to keep releasing new ones.  You are basically asking for everything a MMORPG has to offer with little to no real effort and talk about being in minority on this one.

I could not imagine how fast hardcore guild would quit Rift if that happens. I know I would quit because that is called Welfare Epics and is basically a hand out for nothing. Like I said people like you who are pushing for this in the MMORPG genre are taking the achievement feeling out of these games.

You are arguing 1 out 5 points in this video. If you hate raiding WHY ARE YOU IN THIS THREAD? This is not changing as long as Trion has people like me that donate 15$ a month to them because we love it. I like raiding with my guild. The Rift stuff is not that hard and it is VERY VERY fun to have 20 people doing a raid together.

When did being anti-social become the new hip thing in MMORPG genre? Is it honestly that hard for some people to join a guild and work together?

I

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Originally posted by Torvaldr

I'm not mad at all.  You're the one that seems very defensive.  We all have our opinions.
Anway, I'm not excited about what I see coming down their development pipeline.  I see what they're offering as throwing solo/duo/small group players a bone.  From their interview the way they even refer to "casuals" and the content they're delivering for "casuals" is lame.  I have news for them; there is a lot more to hardcore players than facerolling in raids.  Some raiders might be hardcore, but there are hardcore players who never raid and feel that sort of content is boring.
I don't really care if they listen to players like myself or not.  I gave them my feedback in the exit poll.  If they want to list then fine.  If not that's okay too.  They arne't obligated to make the game I want.  I'm also not obligated to get stoked about game changes that don't excite me, or subscribe to their game.  It's just more feedback for them and that is one thing Trion seems to do well, and that is integrate feedback into their game.  If they want the solo - small group demographic then they will need to provide content that group is willing to pay for.  Maybe what they're offering is good enough for most soloers, but it's not good enough for me.
By the way it's bad form to call people trolls, tell them to get out, or call them names just because they don't agree with you or have a critical opinion of topic.

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I agree with what you and others have said here.

While Trion added things some will enjoy, I don't think most people who left will consider this enough of a draw to return. RIFT is still.. RIFT after all and right now they have so many bugs you'd wonder if this was the same polished game at launch. I'm not sure they even test anything anymore before releasing it.

The biggest thing though is I don't understand how all of this is supposed to make up for the recent PvP exploits where people were getting huge amounts of prestige by something Trion knew full well they were doing. Then in the end, Trion basically does nothing so now that the R8 gear is coming.. people will already easily be set up. They should have repealed all those exploit gains and given some type of punitive measure as well but maybe subs aren't going well (they shut off another three NA servers) so they don't want to offend all those cheaters.

I think this game will always have that heavy raid demo they want, but I don't think the crumbs everyone else gets are good enough in the long run when other games are released.

And no, voicing an opinion regarding the game isn't trolling I agree with you 100%. I'm not sure why people can't handle criticism over public remarks on a public forum. Troll calling is almost in itself, a trolling art when others simply disagree, someone gets mad in rebuttal and the term gets overused so... excellent point.

People arguing they are not banning cheaters or revoking their rank 8 gear and btw they are. Do you expect these people to realistically goto the forums and post this "hey I exploited the pvp Rift and got rank and now my gear is gone WTF trion!?!?!"

Do you want them to post a list of people they banned? Do you people realize that is illegal and that ToS works both ways and they are not allowed to legally do that?

Hey I got an idea guys. I know SWToR is going to be in the WoW/EQ/Rift genre and will have raids. Maybe I should go play the game then qq it is not a FPS game because the spaceships they show can not be flown around and I can't shoot at other players.

Sites like MMORPG put up reviews of these games. I honestly suggest a lot of you start reading them when they are posted before posting this insanity. Only patch note that will make you happy would be

*Rift is now f2p

* We are removing all 20man raids

* as soon as you log on the best gear in the game is in your mail box

The things listed in this video are in direct response to the 'QQ I QUIT" threads that were posted on the Rift forums for the past 3 months. This is what people requested and now they are getting it.  Now it is up to those people if this is what they wanted.

All I see is a bunch of people who hate raiding, who played a raiding game, mad they they played a raiding game, agree'n with each other.

Originally posted by Puremallace

Your essentially asking them to give someone who plays 2 hours week the exact same gear as someone who plays maybe 30 hours a week? I suggest you never play any Korean game or you are really in for a real shock on how they run their games. 

 

If I could get everything in two hours that I used to have to earn in 40 why would I log on more then 2 hours a week? I think you are seriously forgetting why people stop playing console games and they have to keep releasing new ones.  You are basically asking for everything a MMORPG has to offer with little to no real effort and talk about being in minority on this one. 

 

When did being anti-social become the new hip thing in MMORPG genre? Is it honestly that hard for some people to join a guild and work together?

What I'm trying to figure out, is where you keep coming up with this, "essentially wanting to get raid level of gear in 2hrs oppossed to 30+"  And on other forums, I've seen us accussed of advocating to have raid content abolished. {more on this below} 

As far as I can tell, none of have said that, nor do we want it to be that easy.  I've clearly said that I want the chance to get this better gear through lengthy questing and events equivalent to the time it takes to raid for it, but made possible through solo and small group content.  I don't have the patience or the time dedicated requirements to bother with raiding, so why can't there be alternate means?  

Its like you raiders want all the best stuff just cause you have more time per day to play.  And don't go giving me a BS response like you said above about being anti-social...we just don't have the time required to deal with large scale raiding.  If anything, you should be blaming the developers for building their game around being entirely solo to begin with then nixing all that at end-game and suddenly forcing those same players to raid and be ever more communicable.

I'm quite social while I play, and I love to run around and help other players, and respond to questions in world chat and join in the massive world invasions, and Rift hop, but all of that can be done in the span of a few moments here to 20-30min there.  Raiding requires a very hefty amount of dedicated time, and once you get started ~ a family interruption, or your dogs begging to go out, a knock at the door, phone ringing, etc etc can seriously screw things up for the whole of the raid.  We casuals have those interruptions all the time to deal with making raiding quite impossible!  

My experience with raiding in the last few years has mostly consisted of standing around listening to some 8-16yr old {without a broken voice} dictate what should be done and where you must stand and when to move, all from watching videos from the PTR testing phases.  And when you fail, you have to listen to it again and again and again how they think things should work based on how other people did it!   Heck I've even been kicked out of raids cause I hadn't yet watched a video on how to do the fight....its like WTF!?!?  What ever happened to going in blind and figuring it out like the testers did to make those videos?  Anyway...

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As far as advocating to have raiding abolished, thats just a stupid notion to consider.  Its very clear that there are raiders and there are casuals, and both types of players can survive together, having their own style of events.  The raider prefers the challenge of working together with a large group of other players to best massive bosses, and there is nothing wrong with that, but its not my thing anymore.  Nor do I wish it abolished in favor of my playstyle...you have your style, so again, why can't we have our style implemented?

From my experience reading through these raider vs casual debates, the hardcore raiders don't want anything to do with the casual content.  At least not right away...  They tend to only want to get to end-game as fast as possible and raid.  They skip most the story, and exploration and casual social content!  However, I do know that some return during down times to complete this content, or do it on an alt, but for the most part, end-game raiding is their forte!

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As I said above after watching the video in the OP, I really like where Trion is going with the new content.   However, I think there should be new solo/small group version of the new raid areas everytime they're added.  Give us casuals the chance to get the better stuff right away instead of feeding us gear thats two tiers lower than whats really available.  They even said in that video that it'd take the average player a good 45min to make it through the solo Hammerfell instance, and only if they have slightly better gear than what questing offered, so why not make it similar to raids where the drop rates are low, maybe even add a 2-3 runs per week lockout or make us have to collect so many marks to purchase the gear with.  They could even make the instances longer where we have to break and continue later, just like most raiding requires.  With similar time requirements, though not as hefty as raiding, and having it possible to be completed by the casuals, it lets all playstyles have a chance at the best stuff and be more equal. 

On top of all that, as we've been saying all along, we don't have the same 30+ hr a week to play and raid.  Some of my friends can only play 1-2 hr here and there, others a little more or even less.  Its not like we'd be able to waltz in there and walk away with a full set of tier 3 gear in a few hours or days.  It'd still take us awhile to earn it just like raiding, but on a smaller scale based on our style of play!

So yeah, that was really long...but I'm done attempting to explain this.  If you raiders can't grasp that this concept makes it fair for everyone all-the-while not effecting your preferred style of play in any way, then there is no hope in your ever understanding us or caring about the playing field to be even for all.   This is no different than all the whining I hear that PvP should be balanced perfectly and fair for all...

The hilarious part is (yes I read all that) I am not a hardcore raider. There are a group of them and even they have admitted they are not making Rift into a second job. WoW can keep the super hardcore and it appears that Trion is starting to realize this.

They have come out with more challenging content, but the mmo community have crowned WoW the only raiding game allowed on the scene, so you see Trion starting to do this other stuff. I'll put money on the fact Chronicle of Telara are going to be a smash and I can see the focus shifting there very easily.

I can see a 20man maybe every 6 months or so, but in between it will mostly be solo/duo and 10man content for smaller guilds and casuals. This works dfine for me.

Originally posted by Puremallace

The hilarious part is (yes I read all that) I am not a hardcore raider. There are a group of them and even they have admitted they are not making Rift into a second job. WoW can keep the super hardcore and it appears that Trion is starting to realize this.

 

They have come out with more challenging content, but the mmo community have crowned WoW the only raiding game allowed on the scene, so you see Trion starting to do this other stuff. I'll put money on the fact Chronicle of Telara are going to be a smash and I can see the focus shifting there very easily.

 

I can see a 20man maybe every 6 months or so, but in between it will mostly be solo/duo and 10man content for smaller guilds and casuals. This works dfine for me.

 I'd like to see Rift carve its own niche in the mmo gaming world. It's going to be fairly crowded soon and even though I don't play Rift anymore I like Trion and want to see them succeed.

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Originally posted by Khrymson

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Originally posted by Puremallace
Your essentially asking them to give someone who plays 2 hours week the exact same gear as someone who plays maybe 30 hours a week? I suggest you never play any Korean game or you are really in for a real shock on how they run their games. 
 
If I could get everything in two hours that I used to have to earn in 40 why would I log on more then 2 hours a week? I think you are seriously forgetting why people stop playing console games and they have to keep releasing new ones.  You are basically asking for everything a MMORPG has to offer with little to no real effort and talk about being in minority on this one. 
 
When did being anti-social become the new hip thing in MMORPG genre? Is it honestly that hard for some people to join a guild and work together?

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What I'm trying to figure out, is where you keep coming up with this, "essentially wanting to get raid level of gear in 2hrs oppossed to 30+"  And on other forums, I've seen us accussed of advocating to have raid content abolished. {more on this below} 
 
As far as I can tell, none of have said that, nor do we want it to be that easy.  I've clearly said that I want the chance to get this better gear through lengthy questing and events equivalent to the time it takes to raid for it, but made possible through solo and small group content.  I don't have the patience or the time dedicated requirements to bother with raiding, so why can't there be alternate means?  
 
Its like you raiders want all the best stuff just cause you have more time per day to play.  And don't go giving me a BS response like you said above about being anti-social...we just don't have the time required to deal with large scale raiding.  If anything, you should be blaming the developers for building their game around being entirely solo to begin with then nixing all that at end-game and suddenly forcing those same players to raid and be ever more communicable.
 
 
I'm quite social while I play, and I love to run around and help other players, and respond to questions in world chat and join in the massive world invasions, and Rift hop, but all of that can be done in the span of a few moments here to 20-30min there.  Raiding requires a very hefty amount of dedicated time, and once you get started ~ a family interruption, or your dogs begging to go out, a knock at the door, phone ringing, etc etc can seriously screw things up for the whole of the raid.  We casuals have those interruptions all the time to deal with making raiding quite impossible!  
 
My experience with raiding in the last few years has mostly consisted of standing around listening to some 8-16yr old {without a broken voice} dictate what should be done and where you must stand and when to move, all from watching videos from the PTR testing phases.  And when you fail, you have to listen to it again and again and again how they think things should work based on how other people did it!   Heck I've even been kicked out of raids cause I hadn't yet watched a video on how to do the fight....its like WTF!?!?  What ever happened to going in blind and figuring it out like the testers did to make those videos?  Anyway...
 
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As far as advocating to have raiding abolished, thats just a stupid notion to consider.  Its very clear that there are raiders and there are casuals, and both types of players can survive together, having their own style of events.  The raider prefers the challenge of working together with a large group of other players to best massive bosses, and there is nothing wrong with that, but its not my thing anymore.  Nor do I wish it abolished in favor of my playstyle...you have your style, so again, why can't we have our style implemented?
 
From my experience reading through these raider vs casual debates, the hardcore raiders don't want anything to do with the casual content.  At least not right away...  They tend to only want to get to end-game as fast as possible and raid.  They skip most the story, and exploration and casual social content!  However, I do know that some return during down times to complete this content, or do it on an alt, but for the most part, end-game raiding is their forte!
 
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As I said above after watching the video in the OP, I really like where Trion is going with the new content.   However, I think there should be new solo/small group version of the new raid areas everytime they're added.  Give us casuals the chance to get the better stuff right away instead of feeding us gear thats two tiers lower than whats really available.  They even said in that video that it'd take the average player a good 45min to make it through the solo Hammerfell instance, and only if they have slightly better gear than what questing offered, so why not make it similar to raids where the drop rates are low, maybe even add a 2-3 runs per week lockout or make us have to collect so many marks to purchase the gear with.  They could even make the instances longer where we have to break and continue later, just like most raiding requires.  With similar time requirements, though not as hefty as raiding, and having it possible to be completed by the casuals, it lets all playstyles have a chance at the best stuff and be more equal. 
 
On top of all that, as we've been saying all along, we don't have the same 30+ hr a week to play and raid.  Some of my friends can only play 1-2 hr here and there, others a little more or even less.  Its not like we'd be able to waltz in there and walk away with a full set of tier 3 gear in a few hours or days.  It'd still take us awhile to earn it just like raiding, but on a smaller scale based on our style of play!
 
 
So yeah, that was really long...but I'm done attempting to explain this.  If you raiders can't grasp that this concept makes it fair for everyone all-the-while not effecting your preferred style of play in any way, then there is no hope in your ever understanding us or caring about the playing field to be even for all.   This is no different than all the whining I hear that PvP should be balanced perfectly and fair for all...

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hey i agree with you im a solo/small group kind of guy but i do see why they do it the way they do. Just need some innovation or atleast a game thats focus is small group players.

It doesn't matter what Trion does.  When it comes to Rift there will always be those that find something to hate on it.

This patch is full of win.

Originally posted by watchawatcha

It doesn't matter what Trion does.  When it comes to Rift there will always be those that find something to hate on it.

This patch is full of win.

People do not quite understand that. This patch is essentially 4 months worth of forum qq if any of you critics bothered to pay attention. It appears that GW2 and SWToR over hype have deluded your minds as to what is actually technologically possible with current technology. I am sure without a doubt Trion considered making their game look like GW2...I mean you have Aion as a n example, but they also realize most people can not play anything more then WoW on their 200$ E-machines, so while it might look great it is about accesibility.

As I have said how do I compare a game released and all details released and no NDA with games that are either still under NDA in Beta or not even in Beta yet and 8 months out? People will soon learn and come to respect Trion for how fast they are delivering content and realize just how fast those other games are going to more and drop more content.

I am very excited about this patch AA is a big one for me.  On the whole raider thing I have been both casual and hardcore raider I do not believe as a "casual" I have a need for raid gear.  Raid gear is designed to do just that, tuned to stand up to raid encounters. MMO acutally has a meaning massive mutli does not mean 3or 5  man groups.