Originally posted by drbaltazar

dont know if rift will beat it but it is a nice game with very nice graphic and smooth game

And boring, uninspiring gameplay and content.  Rift is going to struggle to survive SWTOR and GW2, let alone overtake WoW.  

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Originally posted by Biggus99

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Originally posted by drbaltazar
dont know if rift will beat it but it is a nice game with very nice graphic and smooth game

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And boring, uninspiring gameplay and content.  Rift is going to struggle to survive SWTOR and GW2, let alone overtake WoW.  

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Originally posted by tkoreaper

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by tkoreaper

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by tkoreaper

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by tkoreaper

Is that why their subs have been slowly dwindling? It's lost over 600k since Rift came out.

 Active accounts not subs. One of these days people are going to get it right. Oh I forgot, it's all about hating on the game.

??? If you're subscribed to the games then essentially the account IS active.

 Clueless. In China they don't even sell subscriptions. And for all you know they have gotten 800,000 new players in the last month. It's as stupid as the McDonalds argument.

I'm well aware that China players pay per hour... it doesn't change the fact that they're essentially "subscribed".

 Not by any cogent definition of the word "subscribed." You can hold a game time card for months without playing. Is your account active? No. Are you subscribed? No. Are you likely to play again in the future? Yes. Do you understand the distinction? Do the numbers you're putting out have any meaning? Not at all.

That's why they look back and give their figures based on scope of a certain time frame... "X amount of accounts were playing within X amount of time". It's not that hard.

 It's not that hard for them. It's impossible for anyone who doesn't have access to current and past data. You're ascribing a trend to two widely separated data points both of them out of date.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by tkoreaper

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by tkoreaper

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by tkoreaper

Is that why their subs have been slowly dwindling? It's lost over 600k since Rift came out.

 Active accounts not subs. One of these days people are going to get it right. Oh I forgot, it's all about hating on the game.

??? If you're subscribed to the games then essentially the account IS active.

 Clueless. In China they don't even sell subscriptions. And for all you know they have gotten 800,000 new players in the last month. It's as stupid as the McDonalds argument.

I'm well aware that China players pay per hour... it doesn't change the fact that they're essentially "subscribed".

 Not by any cogent definition of the word "subscribed." You can hold a game time card for months without playing. Is your account active? No. Are you subscribed? No. Are you likely to play again in the future? Yes. Do you understand the distinction? Do the numbers you're putting out have any meaning? Not at all.

Just because other parts of the world use different subscription models doesn't mean they are somehow invalid.  That would be like Chinese saying only subscriptions count if they are by the hour.   

Why would time cards be counted unless they were activated?  Are you suggesting that blizzard counts the time cards when they sell the to retailers instead of when people redeem them to activate and access their account?  Think about it.

Originally posted by Vunak23

Dont confuse most sales with the best. WoW is not the best MMO int he world. It is the most accessible and user friendly, meaning 11 year olds can play it at a competetive level. That doesnt make it the best.

i bet an 11 year old could stomp you in MOST GAMES. as long as they wanted to play it and win, and had a means to learn it.

you must forget what it's like to be a kid... trust me, they are totally capable beings, given the proper enviroment.

oh yeah. crazy as it sounds, video games are aimed at children. i know, i know... the world is a confusing place. this must be a hard time for you....

I don't understand why so many people on this site jump on GW2 like it's Jesus second coming or something...

GW1 was nothing special.  It didn't fail, but it wasn't a smash hit.  Was just another game among many other games.  Why would GW2 be anything special? 

And to the OP - Don't talk about WoW.  Think of this site like a Fight Club - That are the first few rules?

Because GW2 is nothing like GW1 lol.

Definatly the best game  in the world for 6 year olds to play . I know this because my six year old nephew plays it with no problem at all .  He loves WoW .

at one point gw1 and wow were very close to neck to neck(gw1 always said it wasnt a mmo it was a corpg!)
being how great it was for a corpg player that experienced back then know pretty much what to expect on the pvp front.gw1 sold a lot because they were insanelly gun in pvp!
it slowed down when arenanet annouced (way too early )gw2.

Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

Definatly the best game  in the world for 6 year olds to play . I know this because my six year old nephew plays it with no problem at all .  He loves WoW .

that doesnt make it the best game in the world. It makes it the easiest game to pick up and play, but it is not THE BEST.

Originally posted by laserit

Farmville > then all

LOL winning

Ill use the same argument i always use when some one says "WoW is the best mmorpg bc millions play it" 

Millions of people also listen to Britany Spears and Justin Bieber, doesnt make them the best in the world.

I can't even begin to understand

1. Why people make these threads, it's obvious wow is the best MMO and

2. Why people say numbers means nothing just because WoW has more... if Rift had 13 million subs it would then "count" ... just to say it's better than WoW.

Yes WoW is the best MMO, WoW brought more players to the genre than any other MMO, WoW maintained players longer than any other MMO, WoW provided more crap to do than at the very least "MOST MMO's". I hate WoW it was never my cup of tea, but theres a point when someones biggotry and overall ignorance hits levels of absurbity and immatuity to the point they should no longer be allowed to have opinions.

How could anyone be so selfish so assume their MMO of choice pushing 100k -500k players is a MMO that ranks above World of Warcraft? How do you rationalize such bias and whatever the video game form of racism is. Subs and player rentention is everything to a pay to play mmo. There are no other factors that matter. If your MMO is dwarfed by the population of said MMO, regardless to it matching your personal preferences... it's a better MMO. It won the MMO fight. That does not mean your MMO of choice is bad... it means that MMO is better. It's a better business model, it's a better virtual environment because more people want to spend their time in it, it's just better. Numbers mean everything. The only thing that is second to numbers is length of survival... WoW has the length too.

this is why the 'Mcdonalds' argument is useless.

people say Mcdonalds is just cheap and accessible, like WoW, and there are many other quality burgers out there, that are better, for a bit more money. what they fail to realize, is that in order to obtain one of these 'better burgers' one must step OUT of the genre of 'fast-food' (which is HUGE) and move up to the next genre of food preperation and presentation. sure, there are better burgers out there, but they aren't even in the same consumer category, because you must first leave the 'fast-food' market to access them. all these 'comparisons' people come with are stupid. they have no real validity, except for in the mind of the idiot spewing said bullshit.

And of course, when you ask people on MMORPG what mmos are so much better than Wow, they either say Eve (which is a whole different genre tbh, only correlation is it being played by many people through an online server, in which they pay a sub for) or they name outdated games that they themselves refuse to touch anymore, because oddly enough, they grew tired of it.

i have played many MMO's, and none of them managed to keep me as long as WoW did, while i was playing it. i quit early into WOTLK, resub for a month or two here and there, (played cata for just a month) and havent touched it, or even been tempted to since january of this year. i'm just not into it anymore. no big deal. that's how things work.  but i still keep up with it and look forward to expansions.

the reason i don't get into other MMO's much (i've tried pretty hard, over a dozen other titles) is because, truth be told, MMO's just don't offer much compared to the monthly 15$ fee. sure, when it was new for me, i didn't mind so much. but eventually the gameplay is unbearable (tab-targeting) and i want something new. the only thing i have came across that WoW didn't alrwady offer, was the housing in EQ2. me and the wife LOVE the housing. we casually play the game, quest together, make some plat, then go into our houses and find new ways to design and manipulate the house items. it's the most RP fun i've ever had in an MMO. however, if i want fullfilling RP, all i have to do is play a TES game.

Originally posted by C0MA

I can't even begin to understand

1. Why people make these threads, it's obvious wow is the best MMO and

2. Why people say numbers means nothing just because WoW has more... if Rift had 13 million subs it would then "count" ... just to say it's better than WoW.

 

Yes WoW is the best MMO, WoW brought more players to the genre than any other MMO, WoW maintained players longer than any other MMO, WoW provided more crap to do than at the very least "MOST MMO's". I hate WoW it was never my cup of tea, but theres a point when someones biggotry and overall ignorance hits levels of absurbity and immatuity to the point they should no longer be allowed to have opinions.

 

How could anyone be so selfish so assume their MMO of choice pushing 100k -500k players is a MMO that ranks above World of Warcraft? How do you rationalize such bias and whatever the video game form of racism is. Subs and player rentention is everything to a pay to play mmo. There are no other factors that matter. If your MMO is dwarfed by the population of said MMO, regardless to it matching your personal preferences... it's a better MMO. It won the MMO fight. That does not mean your MMO of choice is bad... it means that MMO is better. It's a better business model, it's a better virtual environment because more people want to spend their time in it, it's just better. Numbers mean everything. The only thing that is second to numbers is length of survival... WoW has the length too.

1. From an objective and unbiased point of view you're correct. However i think we can all agree that subjectively it depends on who's talking.

2. I agree, however it is a futile attempt from people in denial to dismiss its greatness. (do mind i personally am not a huge fan)

Originally posted by C0MA

I can't even begin to understand

1. Why people make these threads, it's obvious wow is the best MMO and

2. Why people say numbers means nothing just because WoW has more... if Rift had 13 million subs it would then "count" ... just to say it's better than WoW.

 

Yes WoW is the best MMO, WoW brought more players to the genre than any other MMO, WoW maintained players longer than any other MMO, WoW provided more crap to do than at the very least "MOST MMO's". I hate WoW it was never my cup of tea, but theres a point when someones biggotry and overall ignorance hits levels of absurbity and immatuity to the point they should no longer be allowed to have opinions.

 

How could anyone be so selfish so assume their MMO of choice pushing 100k -500k players is a MMO that ranks above World of Warcraft? How do you rationalize such bias and whatever the video game form of racism is. Subs and player rentention is everything to a pay to play mmo. There are no other factors that matter. If your MMO is dwarfed by the population of said MMO, regardless to it matching your personal preferences... it's a better MMO. It won the MMO fight. That does not mean your MMO of choice is bad... it means that MMO is better. It's a better business model, it's a better virtual environment because more people want to spend their time in it, it's just better. Numbers mean everything. The only thing that is second to numbers is length of survival... WoW has the length too.

 i don't know why it's so hard for the people here to be rational (like you )

then again, these are the same people that expect a new mmo to keep their intrerest for years and years. the only reason your old games managed to keep you so long, is because it was all new to you at the time. you watched the genre grow up. good for you. 

also, to the guy pathetically clinging to to idiotic comparisons, like Brittney Spears, you have to realize one thing about music. IT'S NOT A VIDEO GAME. different concepts apply. why is it so hard for people on this site to understnd this?

WoW is not edible.

you can not drive WoW.

WoW did NOT get famous because little kids like to hear about sex, and get giddy, because some 15 year old girl, dressed up like a whore and managed by snakey rec execs is played over and over again on pop stations.

and to beat anyone to it, WoW already had millions of players before the marketing went so extreme with commercials. it was ALREADY the biggest MMO to date, waaaay before Mr.T and Ozzy were telling kids to play it. i learned about WoW through a WC3 fan (like myself), and bought WoW because of Blizzards already successful IP.

funny thing.... as far as the 'cheap and accessible' argument goes...

wow is not cheaper than other games. 15$ is the norm for a sub fee. in fact, there are others that are cheaper.

most accessible? how? i can sub to any other game just as easy as WoW, and MMO's are NOT hard. seriously, they are simple and anyone could learn them. you read your abilities and use them accordingly to your encounter. Quest-givers tell all you need to know to do a quest. this is generally how every mmo i have ever played works. this is not a hard concept, and none i have played seemed harder than the next.

i know people will never give up the 'easy/accesible' argument, because sadly, they really don't have much of an argument, no matter what platform they choose. they fail to realize that opinion is not concensus, and concensus should never create your opinion. 

So far, at least to my knowledge, it's the only major game to effectively bridge east and western markets under one name and hold a strong market share in both.

Clearly it has the best market positioning and strategy as evidenced by market share.

Originally posted by drazzah

Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

Definatly the best game  in the world for 6 year olds to play . I know this because my six year old nephew plays it with no problem at all .  He loves WoW .

that doesnt make it the best game in the world. It makes it the easiest game to pick up and play, but it is not THE BEST.

 Well if your six years old you need something thats easy to pick up and play  . Can you name a better game for a six year old ?

Sigh, just because it has the most subscribers it doesnt mean its the best MMORPG in the world. Seriously, they have been watering it down since TBC came out trying to make it appeal to as many as bloody possible nevermind if its good game design. DOES IT SELL? Its starting to get pathetic. Go find something new and completly different to play please, you will be surprised and maybe that will convince the established studios that this formula has been tried, flogged to death and is no longer working. Because all Ihve seen of big releases lately is the same old boring crap I played for 4 years until I tried something else that was ACTUALLY massive (Eve online). And I felt ashamed that I had been spoonfed with something that was less than it could have been.