Originally posted by Horn_Of_Nave

Originally posted by raff01

Originally posted by Horn_Of_Nave

And the "Where's your mmo?" line is about as tired as "Go back to WoW.".

It basically indicates you have no argument and are just desperate to defend.

:)

 I think the argument is sound; if MO is such a shite Sandbox - who has got a better one.  Just name one.  One.

Never played WoW - no idea what it's like...

DarkFall, EVE, UO and probably Xzyon, and there goes your sole argument...

 Sorry?  DF - not being developed anymore mush is it?

EVE - think I want to play with my wallet?  No thanks! Have the community stopped blockading Jita yet? ^^

Xzyon - don't know it will take a look :D

And I have plenty more points to argue thanks very much

 

hehe

 

DarkFall not being developped anymore? how do you know this? do you mean they don't patch it anymore or do you mean they aren't working on an expansion?

DarkFall in its current state has already got such a huge content and so much to do it doesn't need developping.

DarkFall in its current state a huge map, a huge number of features, and works very well. DarkFall is a finished product its polished.

Originally posted by raff01

Originally posted by Horn_Of_Nave

Originally posted by raff01

Originally posted by Horn_Of_Nave

And the "Where's your mmo?" line is about as tired as "Go back to WoW.".

It basically indicates you have no argument and are just desperate to defend.

:)

 I think the argument is sound; if MO is such a shite Sandbox - who has got a better one.  Just name one.  One.

Never played WoW - no idea what it's like...

DarkFall, EVE, UO and probably Xzyon, and there goes your sole argument...

 Sorry?  DF - not being developed anymore mush is it?

EVE - think I want to play with my wallet?  No thanks! Have the community stopped blockading Jita yet? ^^

Xzyon - don't know it will take a look :D

And I have plenty more points to argue thanks very much

 

hehe

 

DarkFall not being developped anymore? how do you know this? do you mean they don't patch it anymore or do you mean they aren't working on an expansion?

DarkFall in its current state has already got such a huge content and so much to do it doesn't need developping.

DarkFall in its current state a huge map, a huge number of features, and works very well. DarkFall is a finished product its polished.

 dont mind him he's clearly just another blind fanboi. Eventually most people realize how shallow MO really is after they try. Some longer than others for me it was over a year before i realized what have i really done in game besides pvp over n over that was slightly fun.

but i think he means the devs are solely working on darkfall 2.0 now

Originally posted by Horn_Of_Nave

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

The only real flaw with MO is......Starvault.

The game design itself has promise and could be done well and achieve at least a modicum of success. It could even be a medieval competitor to EVE's sci-fi sandbox.

In the right hands.

Those hands do not, unfortunately for the MO players, belong to Starvault however.

 Who the billy F do you think got it this far?

 

Can you link me your boutique MMO please? ^^

Well after reading enough of your pretentious humour and impolite attempts at mockery, I see that one of the real problem with this supposing MMO is bad fans.

If you can defend your game, talk about the game.  Insults to other games ("boutique MMO") is only going to alienate average readers and doom your defense.

Who the billy F do you think got it this far?  You ask.  You and the developer got it so far down the drain, it looks beyond rescue, my answer.

Stick to discussion about the game, factual, specific, please, if you still want people to read what you write.

Originally posted by deathshroud

agreed, i mean without sv a game wouldnt have even existed with the same mmo concept and even the haters agree they love the concept of mo. Take darkfall and aventurine as an example, they are more adept when it comes to coding but lack any real creativity or vision when it comes to actual game mechanics resulting in an inferior title and a poorly executed mmo. Im seriously hoping darkfall 2.0 delivers because i believe theres plenty of room in the sandbox mmo market for both darkfall and MO to thrive.

 

when browsing the general discusion forums of mmorpg, i see many psots from disgruntled mmo fans who are fed up with the themepark clones an un imaginative or lack of unique features found in the current lineup of popular mmos. A game like mo really is needed and sure its buggy but indie developers make the games that change gaming the big companies simply steal ideas and polish it.

So you are saying that MO is developed by a team that has worse coding skills than DFO developer.  Now I understand why it is broken.

All MO can sell are creative ideas you appreciate (not all appreciate) and you are hoping that this bag of ideas will attract people who are unhappy with the general themepark games?

First off, ideas not well implemented remains a bad game.  The most creative game is a pen and a pile of blank paper.  Write or draw anything you want.  That is not a good game for many, including me.

Second, there are enough alternate games in the market for unhappy non-themepark players.  For me, if I ever want sandbox, there are enough solo games that are superb (try Morrowind).  Don't start telling me that MO is an MMO, that does not make it better unless the game works.

Pasting a bunch of titles labels or empty descriptions to a broken game does not change the fact that it is broken to many.

Originally posted by Horn_Of_Nave

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

guaranteedOriginally posted by Zoobi

Thanks for the derail with the first reply.

That was actually the best answer of the thread really. MO has and has had so many issues that it's pretty much impossible to state here. Many of the issues you will read about on these forums don't apply anymore but if your interested in knowing what has people all worked up the issues are plainly spelled out for you to see. If your looking for some more current and relavent issues that you will face then a free trial is the way to go as it won't take you long to see why this game has so many "haters". 

 

Having asked the question "Whats the problem with this game?" it's guaranteed you haven't played it yet. There are only 2 types of people that would ask this question, those that haven't played or those that suffer from some serious form of denial. 

 Writing code is umm ... tricky

Perhaps if you can pull out your Magic Wand(tm) you could fix everyhitng for us - world peace too

 

Otherwise might wanna wait and see what happens - despite the hate they're still going strong.

Migh alsot be interesting to see what happens when they're stable when they finally ADVERTISE the game too.  ^ ^

Meanwhile I'll keep building houses in the spots you could have had  MUUAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

 

Writing code is tricky.  It is not that hard, if the design is good.  High school kids can easily be taught to code something effective, if they are giving a solid spec that is well scoped and manageable.

Blaming the issue on coding is cheap, what system designer allows bad coding from one or two programmer to ruin a system?

On the other hand, if you are selling a service, and you know it is plagued with bad code, that is bad business practice.  It is even worse if you are trying to sell hopes.

Responding to the OP  (and ignoring the rest of the thread so far)

As to your question:

Mortal Online is very much a work in progress, even down to it's core. While it is built on a well established engine (Unreal Engine 3), it also uses an untested add-on (Atlas). As best I can tell from the Atlas homepage and looking around at other games that use UE3, Mortal Online is the only game working  with Atlas http://www.epicgameschina.com/tech/tech-atlas_overview.html Some posters have argued that using Atlas is evidence of Starvault being a bad company and is a bad design decision in and of itself. Without being directly involved in the design of the game, it's impossible to say whether the benefits of Atlas outweighed the problems, but simply put the development might not be as far along if they hadn't used Atlas

Atlas is supposed to make adding new content easier and make the world seamless instead of having clearly defined zones (or make the borders between zones more organic/permeable, for those posters who may want to argue the definition of 'instance' or 'zone')  Unfortunately it also introduces it's own set of problems. AI that works in plain UE3 can't "see" the terrain in Atlas.

MO released with "core systems" in place and has been adding content and revamping older parts of the game (UI, tree models etc.) at a fairly rapid pace  They are steadily working on bugs, but each time you add a new game feature, there's a chance of adding new bugs.  Some posters argue that all of that is incompetent programming and makes the game unplayable.  Obviously it is playable (since a fair number are playing and enjoying the game) and without insider knowledge it's hard to know the cause for programming problems.

-------------------------------------

TL:DR version  Since Mortal Online is very much a work in progress, it is more prone to bugs and temporary systems. 

-----------------------------------

As to your implied question:

Why do "a few people passionately running this game down for all they are worth"?

There are two things to consider.  The game as it is now, and the game as it is intended (the "vision") Many of the critics very much like the "vision", but are frustrated / angered by the implementation

Sandbox, open PVP "worlds" is a smallish niche of the MMO market. As such there are very few options for people to "move on" when they decide MO doesn't meet the "vision", and all of those alternatives have their own set of problems.

Minecraft... great game but... um not an MMO,  SHOE788. Not being an MMO simplifies game design alot and  makes it easier to be a "sandbox"

Wurm Online ... also a fine game, but... the graphics are primitive, much of the game is basically dropdown menu after dropdown menu and combat is hardly um "engaging" for lack of a better description.

Xsyon...well, just read their forum http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/forum/1036/General-Discussion.html

Darkfall... headed for a total revamp  skillbased, no skill cap changing  to a Free Realms style class system

EVE ... nothing bad to say about Eve other than the cash shop, but it is a very different feel and different pace from MO

Perpetuum... Well personally, I have nothing much to say. Just an onbservation that the online population doubled with the kerfuffle over EVE's cash shop, and has lost about 1/2 of that boost in a month

 As to why the critics stay here instead of complaining on those forums, I couldn't tell you, other than to suggest that the"vision" of MO is closer to what they wanted than any of the other games "vision"

Originally posted by deathshroud

Originally posted by username509

There are several reasons why people hate on mortal online...

 

I believe 99% of the haters fall into one or more of these categories.  

 

You missed out the most prevelant and obvious reason - MO is not very good and SV are not a trustworthy company.

 

 

The problem you see in these forums is that some people have decided to make 1 or 2 THOUSAND anti mortal online posts ranging from twisting the truth around to make it sound far worst then it is to out and out lies.  This dedication goes beyond that of a normal poster and enters the realm of hating mortal online so much that it has become a mental problem.  

Can you prove anything I (as an example) have written that fits those criteria? Otherwise you are guilty of the offence you accuse me of.

 

Were is the line drawn between trolling and real critisism?  Everyone's answer will differ, but I think we can all agree making a few thousand anti mortal online posts crosses the line.

How about making a few thousand posts containing untruths in an attempt to get people to purchase MO? Can we all agree that crosses the line?

If the marketing shills stopped posting, you'd be amazed how many other posters will no longer feel the need to counter them.

 you missed out the most common one, they were previously banned from mortal online.

I have never been banned from MO, I left because it was terrible.

 

 

Quick history of MO.

From your perspective. Much of what you write I would disagree with (as someone who played a year of beta).

Some quick examples -

Many peoples cirtisims and opinions are based off of that dreadful release which in reality does not reflect the game in its current state.

 The features that didn't work then still don't work. The very raison d'etre of MO is combat, and it has been broken since launch. Don't believe me, just read the official forums.

the special edition and boxed editions of mo were requested by the fanbase, cosntantly when the devs said they would only do digital downlaod but the devs provided it at no actual profit to themselves for those who really had to have a special edition version, everything in the speical edition bag was listed on sale and palyers got exactly what was listed.

The art book was composed mostly of blank pages and the disc did not work. Many people received broken figurines too. It most definitely did not contain what SV promised.

The dvd on the disc was suppsoed to be released once mo was at a stable state, however many players demanded their discs be sent out early and sv had to oblige sending out dvds that were esnetially out of date by the time they arived since hte game was being patched daily.

The discs were meant to usuable at that time, and new disks would be sent once MO reached Gold. Neither was true.

The discs themselves were useless due to a new installer added (players could still dl the game from the website) 1 month later the discs were finally compatible and able to install the game from the disc.

The discs still cannot be used, it just does a full d/l and install.

 

during early release many players left due to being let down by the release of the game and many were banned due to hacking (previously in beta no anti hacking existed so many tried it during release). After players were banned some setup a hate campaign over on mmorpg with the intent of destroying mo for good.

Very few, if any, hackers were banned - as is still the case. SV simply can't do without the subscription money. The reality is that a lot of people here at MMORPG are the people who DIDN'T join the rampant hacking from guilds, including Dev favourite guilds.

 

With a small community the haters had full reign on mmorpg posting whatever they liked even making stuff up.

Please point out where I (for eg) have made anything up?

 

Those who attempted to defend mo were swiftly banned or discouraged through heavy moderation and post deleting and only now has there been people active on mmorpg who want to give a much more fair opinion of the game.

I regularly have posts deleted or mod'd due to SV fans having THAT conversation in MO IRC that I won't mention here. Pro-SV posters don't get treated any different to those who dislike the game or company. I can post an SS of my warnings to further prove you wrong if you wish.

 

after release the game went through patch after patch, at first 1 or 2 every week then eventually 1 every 2 weeks, many of the patches added new bugs at the same time they removed old ones and some even brought back old bugs, however slwoly but surely the game got better and better with many new features add. From release to now we have.

There has never been an MO patch that did not break more than it fixed. Ever. Instead of trying to fix core features, SV then added useless and broken features such as cooking or the gene system. This shows Henrik's inability to run a successful game company.

 

butchery, cooking, alchemy, complete new mount system, around 400 new skills, graphic overhaul 2x,  sleeping and campfires,  aronud 20 new mobs, gatherables, task system, among many others.

Most of those don't actually work though do they? Cooking for eg, eating basic uncooked food is better for you than actually cooking it. The mount system led to horses the size of houses, and complaints from players that mounts were not controllable anymore. Those 400 new skills are pretty much all Lore skills and are therefore bascially useless fluff for non working primary skills (hi cooking).

The new mobs still have the beta AI too, you know AI written by a summer student intern because SV had no idea how to do it? The AI currently ingame is simply non existant and even mentioning PVE in MO as a selling point is hilarious.

Originally posted by deathshroud

its common practise for game companies to start the free month on the rleease month. all those who purchased the game with an active email acconut recieved a clear email stating charges would start after the first mnoth unless you unsubscribe.

Can you please find me an example of another MMO company doing what SV did please.

Thanks.

And the email means nothing, hence why so many customers got their money back on the grounds of credit card fraud.

Osmunda -  

SV chose ATLAS because they had very little coding experience. They hoped it would allow them to make an MMO in the manner of their only previous experience - modding UE. Sadly for Henrik, that is where reality started to hit home when he realised that was not the case and since then they have shown their inability to produce quality code/content every single patch.

Horn of Nave - 

People have shown you many sandbox games that are vastly superior to MO, you just refuse to see the obvious.

In EVE for eg, what can I buy right now that will affect my gameplay? I could buy a monocle for my portrait, but that does not affect gameplay in any way. So do please tell us what I need to buy to play the game. Otherwise, your point is ... pointless.

As for naming a sandbox MMO that is better than MO in my own opinion, I would say that a 14 year old game, mostly developed in the spare time of enthusiasts for free, is infinitely better. That game being UO emulators such as Im Por Ylem. It has all the features that MO claims to have but they actually work, and many more features that SV couldn't begin to program competantly.

Yep, a game made by people for free in their spare time is better than MO.

Thank you osmunda for replying to the topic, as requested, with a well thought out post instead bringing your own agenda and arguments into this thread. I can only agree with your conclusions.

I find it disheartening that other people posting in this thread have no sense propriety or respect for other forum users and by derailing this thread bring shame upon themselves and lessen their standing, and that of their "camp", in the eyes of any reasonable reader.

This thread should be cast under the bridge now, so the trolls may fill further their fattened frames.

cheers

Originally posted by Zoobi

This thread should be cast under the bridge now, so the trolls may fill further their fattened frames.

cheers

And you may now return to the official MO boards, where I am sure you would be much happier as it is apparent that you had no interest in actual discussion :)

Many people posted valid arguments, but you have ignored them all as they are contrary to your initial aim - to denigrate those that think SV and MO are a poor company and a terrible game.

Therein lies the reason people post here, we cannot counter blatent shilling on the official boards but we can here.

Originally posted by Betel

Originally posted by Zoobi

This thread should be cast under the bridge now, so the trolls may fill further their fattened frames.

cheers

 

And you may now return to the official MO boards, where I am sure you would be much happier as it is apparent that you had no interest in actual discussion :)

 

Many people posted valid arguments, but you have ignored them all as they are contrary to your initial aim - to denigrate those that think SV and MO are a poor company and a terrible game.

 

Therein lies the reason people post here, we cannot counter blatent shilling on the official boards but we can here.

  Exactly. Form the start of this thread it is obvious you had an agenda and had no interest in an actual discussion on the flaws/merits of MO. You have repeatedly cherry-picked posts to praise as fair and resasonable while at the same time ignored others as trolling. The only basis for your selection seems to be if a post is "pro" MO or against MO.

Like has been stated before: If someone is truly interested if seeing the "truth" about the game. Download and play the free trial. If you want to know why people "hate" on MO, a few minutes spent reading through the MMO forum will provide many specific examples of why people do not like the game. That you refuse to research or choose to ignore "negative"posts is your problem, not the other posters.

Wurm Online ... also a fine game, but... the graphics are primitive, much of the game is basically dropdown menu after dropdown menu and combat is hardly um "engaging" for lack of a better description.

I didn't know good graphics and combat made a good sandbox, Osmunda. Thanks for clearing that up.

agreed, there are better sandbox games than mo but they simply arent better mmos. For example wurm online it has plenty of sandbox tools but lacks certain features that can only be found in a few sandbox mmos that prevent me from playing it again.

For me theres plenty of room in the sandbox mmo genre for mo and i hate it when any of them die out because we all know until an indie company has success with a proper sandbox mmo we wont see a major developer making one.

i disagree, the mo mmorpg forums are so distorted on their facts i would simply try the trial after visiting the mo site and finding out for yourself how the game is. in my experience the moderation on mo forums is no different from the moderation on mmorpg forums.

The game itself is unpolished, buggy and very niche within it's own genre due to several things with the gaming world.

It feels very much like playing an old shareware game built by 1-2 people in a garage.

I am not sure how presenting those facts is trolling..

Trolling would be "MO players just don't want to admit they wasted 100 days of their life on a crappy MMOFPS put together by a crappy company"

there is a difference between being a sandbox game (minecraft is one) and being an mmo (minecraft is not one) or being a great sandbox mmo (wurm is one) and being a great mmo (wurm is not one) what im saying is that wurm achieves a great level of player control but suffers from poor graphics and game design in a way that prevents me from enjoying it, mainly the awful combat system. But there is no arguing that wurm has some incredible sandbox features. Hope that is worded so you can understand it.

1 example of how many feel in my playing exeprience was morrowind, on release i baught the game and i played it all the way through completing it and for me morrowind was quite possibly one of my best rpg experiences, however i told a few of my friedns about the game and they played it but just could not put up with the game breaking bugs found in that game, it ruined their experience of what is esentially a great game and prevented them from playing through it. Some people require perfection and other require something original which lets them see past bugs.

Operation flashpoint

stalker

morrowind

hidden and dangerous

and also MO

all great in their own way if you can look passed alot of bugs.

however if you cannot put up with bugs in an mmo then try

wow

aion

rift

eq2

althoguh none of them or any game offers the same gaming experience mo does.

Originally posted by deathshroud

althoguh none of them or any game offers the same gaming experience mo does.

Which gaming experience is that?

Is it something I could not find on UO shards and have it actually work? Or do you mean SV's unique approach to QA?

Please outline for us what MO offers that is unique, as every other time we have this discussion it ends with "well it has forced FPV!".

Originally posted by deathshroud

there is a difference between being a sandbox game (minecraft is one) and being an mmo (minecraft is not one) or being a great sandbox mmo (wurm is one) and being a great mmo (wurm is not one) what im saying is that wurm achieves a great level of player control but suffers from poor graphics and game design in a way that prevents me from enjoying it, mainly the awful combat system. But there is no arguing that wurm has some incredible sandbox features. Hope that is worded so you can understand it.

 

1 example of how many feel in my playing exeprience was morrowind, on release i baught the game and i played it all the way through completing it and for me morrowind was quite possibly one of my best rpg experiences, however i told a few of my friedns about the game and they played it but just could not put up with the game breaking bugs found in that game, it ruined their experience of what is esentially a great game and prevented them from playing through it. Some people require perfection and other require something original which lets them see past bugs.

Operation flashpoint

stalker

morrowind

hidden and dangerous

 

and also MO

 

all great in their own way if you can look passed alot of bugs.

 

however if you cannot put up with bugs in an mmo then try

wow

aion

rift

eq2

 

althoguh none of them or any game offers the same gaming experience mo does.

I don't agree with that list. I've been playing Operation Flashpoint and its been one of my favorite games ever, loved the huge maps, realism and freedom, however, I never had ONE single bug, went thru the entire campaign many times + online, never had even a single crash...

Same with Morrowind, never had any bug.

I kind of agree with the rest.

thing with MO is its beyond a point where you can see past bugs, there are just too many of them and its too broken and the lack of content just prevents it. Some games have potential but simply need a bit of time, MO hasn't really got potential as a game at all. Its got potential as a concept and idea. But the fact its being developped by a bunch of delusional incompetents like SV takes away any potential, because you know as long as SV are in charge it will never be good.

Give the license/ideas/concept of MO, hand it over to Bethesda or one of those awesome Korean dev studio, and it will have great potential, but as of right now, MO is just a good idea/concept.

If you want to know what is wrong with the game here is a long time non biased person who plays the game.  Read the highlighted paragraph please.

Kreyon Junior Member     Join Date: Apr 2010 Rep Power: 2

Cya Soon (TM) To start off, I had to stop playing for a couple days, 3 or so, because of some relatives visiting. It was a nice, almost needed break from everything that's been going on. After this much needed break, I came back and I think I've burnt out. It's like playing a sport you kinda like for a season, taking a break in the off-season, and having no desire to go back to playing that sport. I've played this game for a long time, invested a lot of time and effort into it, and had fun playing it, met a lot of great people, some not so great, but mostly good people.  Recently a lot of things have happened that allowed me, and everyone else, to see the game almost, if not completely at its full potential at the current state and honestly, I've started losing interest. Most of the game, not all of it, but most of it, is centered on knowing bugs and how to avoid/use them. Everything I do in this game, the whole time I'm doing it, I'm thinking about the bugs, how they are going to effect the situation, how to avoid them. And when I don't, they end up screwing me over and I end up raging. It's not healthy for me, this game has definitely changed me and has done so in a way I don't like. For most people they are fine with this, either because they like a challenge, they don't care they just like the game, or have hope that everything will be fixed one day and the game will work at the best it can. I was part of that third group for a long time but I've burned out I guess, I'm still hopeful, but I won't be supporting the game any longer. My subs are up in the next couple of days so you might see me around doing stuff until then.  As the title suggests I plan on coming back, most likely when they open another server so I could start everything new, hope to see you all then. Good luck everybody, its been fun. No you can't have my stuff . I request this be closed, no replies are needed here as this is just a way to justify why I'm leaving and for it not to be just a flat our rage-quit (like last time ). __________________ Quote from: Tenchuu on Today at 17:22:42 Damn, Cyde quit? He's one of the players that loaded for

The reason I quit and the 150+ people in my alliance quit.  We got sick and tired of figuring out how to play past bugs.   We got sick of people using the bugs to thier advantage.  Seriously 7/10 times I would die would be from a bug. 

the concepts in this game are awesome, but the game is a buggy mess of sloppy coding.