I think that we are all just addicted to "new releases".  The problem with MMO's is that too many come out and when the MMO that takes 100000 years to develope fails to capture our interest, we jump ship to the next round of MMO's that are 20000 years away from release.

When I played EQ back in 1999, there wasn't any other game on the horizon to look forward to.  Everyone is searching for that PERFECT game that is never going to come because MMO's these days are made to make bank and not to engulf the player in an immersive world.

Heres what needs to happen to MMO's:

- The developers need to bring back slow leveling, RARE items whose name echos through the ears of people that don't have one yet and most likely never will (not just items slapped with a purple color). 

- They need to completely get rid of quest hubs.  GONE.  BYE BYE.  Quest are highly confused with chores now a days.  A quest is something that comes around very rarely and offers a very nice reward.  There shouldn't be 100 quest every 10 feet.

- We can keep the kill 10x quest, but make the mobs very hard to find.  You might stroll across one of these kill 10x for their eye mobs maybe once or twice  night while hunting.

- Keep regular armor obtainable by crafting only.  Rare armor should be quite the task to obtain. 

- Death penalty - hate to say it, but we need it back in MMO's.  Every player wouldn't just charge into an unknown cave if they new that they would get 1-hit 5 feet inside.  I remember being scared inching around corners of certain places.  In WOW, i just charge in like Leeroy Jenkins.

I can list 500 more things we would need to make MMO's great again, but whats the point.  Unless I hand a 25,000,000 dollar check to a development team, its not going to get made in this day and age.

Whats going to happen is something great will come out and side swipe us unknowingly back into the heyday of gaming, but we will be too stupid to notice until after the game has failed. (ie Vanguard - even though that was SOEs fault it failed with the craptastic launch and buggy game).

Originally posted by Elikal

"Funny" to see how we all agree here. I mean, if so many feel games are going the wrong way, isn't there a whole market left untapped? Maybe that idea of big companies to make cheap, fast trashy games is a completely wrong assumption.

For me, one example is the change of Civilization. With Civ 2 the game reached it's height, but each new Civ was less complex and less fun. Civ 3 was merely ok, Civ 4 was meh and making me hope for a new Civ, and Civ 5 really was just a ruin of it's former greatness. It so represented the development of games at large. I still think game companies err when they think making games simpler and easier is the right way. On the contrary, complex and "classic" games will always captivate and I am sure even casual gamers can be led to enjoy more complex games.

Or take RPGs and Action Games: over the years each new generation was shorter than before. When in the past many of such games where 120 hours+, these days we are offered games with 6-8 hours, and for the same price! I was just SO outraged about trash like The Force Unleashed II, which was expensive like a full game and a mere 4-6 hours gameplay! OUTRAGEOUS, old chum!

I mean, look at Dragon Age 2. No matter what you think about it, it proves to be another low in complexity in so many ways. Remember how MANY different mobs past RPGs had! Or how many classes and skills! And now? We have Warrior, Thief, Mage, end of story. And no alternative skill trees, nothing. You could as well have auto-levelling because there isn't much left to chose from. Even Elder Scrolls had less skills with each new game from Daggerfall down to now Skyrim! As buggy as Daggerfall was, I know I spent a YEAR playing that game!

I am sure such complex games would still work, if only someone would make it.

I'm sure they would work, and sell 250-500K copies like the games of the past.  Unfortunately corporate masters require that developers "swing for the fence" and design their games to appeal to "millions of customers" so game mechanics not favored by the larger subscription base have been (and will continue to be) stripped away, not only in MMO's but apparently in the single player game market as well.

Originally posted by Derros

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Derros

Originally posted by Z3R01

Originally posted by dreamscaper

In my (humble) opinion, I think it's more that we're receiving more quantity, and with mildly reduced quality. Lots of good games, but no great games. We have plenty of games that are fun to play, but not that really draw you in and refuse to let go the way games like TLJ/Dreamfall, VtM: Bloodlines, Thief1/2, Planescape: Torment, System Shock, Morrwind, Oblivion, etc all did.

I know this is off topic but i wish someone would fix VTM... damn thing will not run for me on windows 7 64bit, not in compatibility mode either...

Completely pisses me off that i have to use some stupid work around and restart my entire system to get the game working and then change system settings and restart it again to get all my other games running right...

You would think someone would have a fix by now...

 

sorry for the rant but it pisses me off that i cant play the game the way i want :(

It seems to work fine for me, Did you try getting the unofficial patches?

 

I used the latest one from here http://www.patches-scrolls.de/vampire_bloodlines.php

Doesn't Steam have it with all the patches, all fixed up?

I have the disks, and i didnt feel like buying it again just to have on steam.  So I cant really comment on how well it works with steam.  I do know I had to fool around with the steam version of Kotor to make it work on win 7

nope it doesnt work.

I asked steam support and they just gave me some work around that lets me lower my systems memory to 2gigs so it could run.

its a pain honestly.

So was I till I finally tried Age of Conan. It went free to play and I played for a week and had to sub up! I'm having a blast. Very awesome game was surprised...

Originally posted by Disatisfied9

{mod edit}

And yet this is the most active game topic forum on the internet.

Even if it has a few life timers it still makes for an active forum

Go ahead and visit a place like IGN... I have a post up there from two months ago, still on the first page!!!!

Originally posted by Disatisfied9

{mod edit}

With all due respect: I find that notion weird, given you are here for barely a month. (AND already with 160 posts! That makes an average of 5.3 posts a day! ^^ Just saying. )

i feel the OP completely.....i am also a gamer since i was 9 (36 now) and i enjoyed alot of games.

UO was my first MMORPG and guess what.....i found me a free shard that's just the way it used to be around the second age (you know.....b4 the game became a shadow of its former self).

The fact that a had to start ALL OVER again didnt even bother me......it will take me months to build up my char the way i want the skills to be.

I have been killed and looted dry 3 times the same day and the next day i got robbed by a thief.......strangely enough, (altough i am not a pvp'r) this keeps me on the edge in this game because i know i can get jumped at any moment i leave town.

Best thing of all.....its totally free + your account NEVER gets deleted if you dont play (your house will decay tough if you dont refresh it) + open world pvp and stealing from other players + you dont hit max skills (7 X GM) for months even as a HC player (it will take me almost a year think (i play kinda casual).

I found that MMORPG's these days are just empty shells compared to this ancient game.

So to the OP.....dont lose hope man...

Last game i played was Rift......the way to max lvl was alot of funn for me (really enjoyed it) but once i hit 50 it was just token itemgrind it was b4 in the game i shall not name.

And yeah this UO free shard is also one hell of a grind but at least its not in my own little private dungeon (instance).....people will pull mobs on your @ss in dungeons (aggro....run towards you and then go invisible so to mob sees you as the next target.....now thats some good old funn aint it :p ) plus the fact the player can also kick you butt in that dungeon and loot your items makes it alot more fun and frustrating at times......makes pvp in themaparks look like a bunch of nOObs :)

Ignore the post count hound above.

I'm also an older I guess gamer, 34 going on 35 now and been gaming since the very dawn of of the industry really, my first games system was something called a G2600 or something like it, from Atari, then we were the first in our street and possibly area to own an Amstrad CPC 464 and I have been gaming ever since.

I feel the exact same way, ever since I stopped playing wow to be honest it's left a big hole that no other game has been able to fill, mmo's prrior to wow were always filled with the next mmo but after wow there does not seem to be a new mmo that looks like the next logical mmo step, I did have very high hopes for Jumpgate Evolution but thats all but dead.

I don't think its our age, I think its our brains and what we expect and want from our games.

For example, and this might be just me, I want a game that will take a long time to play, I want to play it and feel like hay, I will be playing this in another 3 or 4 years, I want that long term gaming security that comes from not caring what else is coming out because you have your game and your playing it, and oddly enough this is only for mmo's I think because we invest so much time, and effort, and brain power into our chartacters, that we do not want to let them go so easily if some other game comes along the next week, we see it as a loss.

So yeah, MMO's have been crap of late, all free to play piles of rubbish that we cant get attached to due it its pay to win model, your not alone, I want an mmo thats fair, subscription so I know everyone is on the level playing field, deep so that I have interesting activities to do while in game, I love to raid, I love the planning and organization of it, but I dont not want to feel like the whole game is just about raiding, I want crafting thats deep and meaningfull that has as its end game more than just crafting 3 things to get your character raid ready, I want an economy thats deep rich, and vibrant normally only found in games with item loss or item decay to loss where crafters are a needed aspect to make the swords and bows we all use.

Hay am I asking to much, I dont think so, older games and other current games of differing genres have done a lot of the above, just no one has done it to the quality and support that sadly blizzard has spoiled us with.

maybe i should have stated clearly that i am more in favor to sandbox games......i also enjoyed wow when it came out.....i aint saying all new games are crap but (FOR ME) the problem with newer MMORPG's is that once you played the last dungeon its game over (end of storyline) and you just repeat that over and over, that's all.

If that's what you like then plz do.....its not a bad thing if you can enjoy that.

i am just stating my own opinion, nothing more.

as for enjoying the lastest games.......i realy enjoyed Dragon Age and Dragon Age 2 :)

Originally posted by Disatisfied9

{mod edit}

 Goodbye says the poster who's been here for a little more than a month?

Well, whatever, I'm sure there's a forum out there somewhere that will be more entertaining and hey, the good news is you lost what you paid for this site.

Funny since i had the most fun from 2008 to 2011 playing MMOS like EQ2, LOTRO, EVE and even re visited WOW after CATA and had a blast with RIFT.

Maybe it's the same as with movies. Pretty much every thing you can think of has already been done so the gems are few and in between. That and no investor will dump loads of cash into something deep and complex that will end up as a niche game. I don't have the same gaming taste as you but maybe you could enjoy some of the console exclusives... open your mind.

Either way the days of deep and compex games are behind us and they aren't coming back.

Originally posted by Allhallows

Heres what needs to happen to MMO's:

- The developers need to bring back slow leveling, RARE items whose name echos through the ears of people that don't have one yet and most likely never will (not just items slapped with a purple color). 

- They need to completely get rid of quest hubs.  GONE.  BYE BYE.  Quest are highly confused with chores now a days.  A quest is something that comes around very rarely and offers a very nice reward.  There shouldn't be 100 quest every 10 feet.

- We can keep the kill 10x quest, but make the mobs very hard to find.  You might stroll across one of these kill 10x for their eye mobs maybe once or twice  night while hunting.

- Keep regular armor obtainable by crafting only.  Rare armor should be quite the task to obtain. 

- Death penalty - hate to say it, but we need it back in MMO's.  Every player wouldn't just charge into an unknown cave if they new that they would get 1-hit 5 feet inside.  I remember being scared inching around corners of certain places.  In WOW, i just charge in like Leeroy Jenkins.

 

This is actually almost opposite of what I think should happen to MMORPGs.  The developers have to give up on these outdated concepts and embrace more immersive gameplay that lets players actually build a proper society in the game.  Grinding out rare gear and hiding the lack of challenge behind timesinks has to go.  Players need to be encouraged to try new things instead of being tricked into thiking that repetive, brainless content is 'hardcore;.

Originally posted by Allhallows

I think that we are all just addicted to "new releases".  The problem with MMO's is that too many come out and when the MMO that takes 100000 years to develope fails to capture our interest, we jump ship to the next round of MMO's that are 20000 years away from release.

When I played EQ back in 1999, there wasn't any other game on the horizon to look forward to.  Everyone is searching for that PERFECT game that is never going to come because MMO's these days are made to make bank and not to engulf the player in an immersive world.

Heres what needs to happen to MMO's:

- The developers need to bring back slow leveling, RARE items whose name echos through the ears of people that don't have one yet and most likely never will (not just items slapped with a purple color). 

- They need to completely get rid of quest hubs.  GONE.  BYE BYE.  Quest are highly confused with chores now a days.  A quest is something that comes around very rarely and offers a very nice reward.  There shouldn't be 100 quest every 10 feet.

- We can keep the kill 10x quest, but make the mobs very hard to find.  You might stroll across one of these kill 10x for their eye mobs maybe once or twice  night while hunting.

- Keep regular armor obtainable by crafting only.  Rare armor should be quite the task to obtain. 

- Death penalty - hate to say it, but we need it back in MMO's.  Every player wouldn't just charge into an unknown cave if they new that they would get 1-hit 5 feet inside.  I remember being scared inching around corners of certain places.  In WOW, i just charge in like Leeroy Jenkins.

I can list 500 more things we would need to make MMO's great again, but whats the point.  Unless I hand a 25,000,000 dollar check to a development team, its not going to get made in this day and age.

Whats going to happen is something great will come out and side swipe us unknowingly back into the heyday of gaming, but we will be too stupid to notice until after the game has failed. (ie Vanguard - even though that was SOEs fault it failed with the craptastic launch and buggy game).

Sounds like you want to make MMOs frustrating and annoying again...

These are video games, if i wanted to be frustrated and annoyed i would talk to my ex-wife...

Originally posted by Z3R01

Originally posted by Allhallows

I think that we are all just addicted to "new releases".  The problem with MMO's is that too many come out and when the MMO that takes 100000 years to develope fails to capture our interest, we jump ship to the next round of MMO's that are 20000 years away from release.

When I played EQ back in 1999, there wasn't any other game on the horizon to look forward to.  Everyone is searching for that PERFECT game that is never going to come because MMO's these days are made to make bank and not to engulf the player in an immersive world.

Heres what needs to happen to MMO's:

- The developers need to bring back slow leveling, RARE items whose name echos through the ears of people that don't have one yet and most likely never will (not just items slapped with a purple color). 

- They need to completely get rid of quest hubs.  GONE.  BYE BYE.  Quest are highly confused with chores now a days.  A quest is something that comes around very rarely and offers a very nice reward.  There shouldn't be 100 quest every 10 feet.

- We can keep the kill 10x quest, but make the mobs very hard to find.  You might stroll across one of these kill 10x for their eye mobs maybe once or twice  night while hunting.

- Keep regular armor obtainable by crafting only.  Rare armor should be quite the task to obtain. 

- Death penalty - hate to say it, but we need it back in MMO's.  Every player wouldn't just charge into an unknown cave if they new that they would get 1-hit 5 feet inside.  I remember being scared inching around corners of certain places.  In WOW, i just charge in like Leeroy Jenkins.

I can list 500 more things we would need to make MMO's great again, but whats the point.  Unless I hand a 25,000,000 dollar check to a development team, its not going to get made in this day and age.

Whats going to happen is something great will come out and side swipe us unknowingly back into the heyday of gaming, but we will be too stupid to notice until after the game has failed. (ie Vanguard - even though that was SOEs fault it failed with the craptastic launch and buggy game).

Sounds like you want to make MMOs frustrating and annoying again...

These are video games, if i wanted to be frustrated and annoyed i would talk to my ex-wife...

I don't know your ex-wife, but I'll defend my statement. The time sinks in mmos need to be there. But they need to actually require "time" and not things like repeating dungeons over and over to get gear. When I logged onto EQ I thought "one day I'll see that mob spawn, hopefully"! I'm WoW I'm like, "ok, I'll finish these 5 quests and then go to bed. Having a death penalty and searching long and hard for an item isn't frustration. It adds a real world , real life feel to the game. It makes the world come alive. Now I see why all the new mmos are in the state they are in; people have no patience. It's now, now, now!

Originally posted by Allhallows

Originally posted by Z3R01

Originally posted by Allhallows

I think that we are all just addicted to "new releases".  The problem with MMO's is that too many come out and when the MMO that takes 100000 years to develope fails to capture our interest, we jump ship to the next round of MMO's that are 20000 years away from release.

When I played EQ back in 1999, there wasn't any other game on the horizon to look forward to.  Everyone is searching for that PERFECT game that is never going to come because MMO's these days are made to make bank and not to engulf the player in an immersive world.

Heres what needs to happen to MMO's:

- The developers need to bring back slow leveling, RARE items whose name echos through the ears of people that don't have one yet and most likely never will (not just items slapped with a purple color). 

- They need to completely get rid of quest hubs.  GONE.  BYE BYE.  Quest are highly confused with chores now a days.  A quest is something that comes around very rarely and offers a very nice reward.  There shouldn't be 100 quest every 10 feet.

- We can keep the kill 10x quest, but make the mobs very hard to find.  You might stroll across one of these kill 10x for their eye mobs maybe once or twice  night while hunting.

- Keep regular armor obtainable by crafting only.  Rare armor should be quite the task to obtain. 

- Death penalty - hate to say it, but we need it back in MMO's.  Every player wouldn't just charge into an unknown cave if they new that they would get 1-hit 5 feet inside.  I remember being scared inching around corners of certain places.  In WOW, i just charge in like Leeroy Jenkins.

I can list 500 more things we would need to make MMO's great again, but whats the point.  Unless I hand a 25,000,000 dollar check to a development team, its not going to get made in this day and age.

Whats going to happen is something great will come out and side swipe us unknowingly back into the heyday of gaming, but we will be too stupid to notice until after the game has failed. (ie Vanguard - even though that was SOEs fault it failed with the craptastic launch and buggy game).

Sounds like you want to make MMOs frustrating and annoying again...

These are video games, if i wanted to be frustrated and annoyed i would talk to my ex-wife...

I don't know your ex-wife, but I'll defend my statement. The time sinks in mmos need to be there. But they need to actually require "time" and not things like repeating dungeons over and over to get gear. When I logged onto EQ I thought "one day I'll see that mob spawn, hopefully"! I'm WoW I'm like, "ok, I'll finish these 5 quests and then go to bed. Having a death penalty and searching long and hard for an item isn't frustration. It adds a real world , real life feel to the game. It makes the world come alive. Now I see why all the new mmos are in the state they are in; people have no patience. It's now, now, now!

 

I dont know man. I had gameplay like that In Saga of Ryzom.

Your stuck in this big ass desert, you get to the end of it and see this awesome looking area but the mobs are 100 skill levels over you.

At first you're like "One day im gonna hunt there!!!" After two weeks of grinding shitty mobs you start to hate that fucking zone and uninstall...

I know we all have our own version of nostalgia glasses but shit like your describing doesnt make a game fun. 

Sure its more realistic, its more of an immersive "world" but god damn it its frustrating also! And im too old to be frustrated the entire time im playing.

I dont want down time, i dont want grinding, i dont want stupid harsh death penalties put in the game just because it makes a game "more real" I want fun!

FUN

Yup agree with the OP.I thought it was just me getting old(38).I almost resubbed to DFO but people are either quitting or holding out for 2.0.Only thing on the horizon for me is Archage because I prefer sandbox games.Hell I've even thought about playing a Fr00b account again for Anarchy Online how desperate is that??

I remember about 10 year ago I'd be waiting for at least 10-25 games at a time. But now days, I find myself waiting for like 2 or 3 a year. Somethings gotta change. It probably time for new game devs. Unless its because we have new devs that games suck now.

HA. join the club (to the OP)

bout a year ago now I spend $3400 on my first gaming rig, (i've had computers) but this thing is a gaming god.

Wanna know what I play on it?

Age of empires 2 (network of course)

minecraft

theme hospital

World of warcraft 1,2,3

accept for minecraft all of those games are 6+ years old (or in the case of AOE its like 11 years now?)

And minecraft is a indie game.

Anyways...yeah I spend wwwaayyy more time reading about games then actually playing them anymore. kinda sad really.

I feel your pain about trying to find a good game that I can actually enjoy before the developers ruin it.

That's why I'm creating my own game, problem solved I guess. Haha