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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » I'm sick of 2 Faction systems, are you?

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  Divion

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/09/10
Posts: 385

Those that never took a chance, never had a chance -

 
OP  8/13/11 3:27:12 PM#1
Am I the only one of tired of these 2 faction systems?
 
Even in WoW I wasn’t a fan of it, it didn’t make sense nor sate my desire for variety.
Warcraft 3 had 4 Main factions (Alliance {Humans, Gnomes, Dwarves, High Elves, and Later Blood Elf}, Horde {Orcs, Ogres, Goblins, Tauren, trolls}, Night Elves {Treants, Mountain giants, Wisps, Fae} Scourge {Undead, Zombies, Skeletons, Abominations, Ghouls, ect), and even 1 Sub-Faction, Naga (Blood Elves were later mix in with them)
 
Some how, and for some reason (Lazy Developers maybe), it was condensed into 2; Factions, the Signature Alliance, and Horde – This made for some rather 1 sided choices (Especially back during Vanilla when Paladin/Shaman were Faction restricted.), it also destroyed the Lore behind WoW (Night Elf Death Knights, Death Knights joining the ALLIANCE? WTF?).
 
To me having 4 factions would made more sense, with faction restricted classes being more widespread (Example, you could only be a Death Knight if you joined the Scourge, with your Faction Boss being no-other then the Lich King -- Paladins Alliance, Blade master Horde, Hunter Night Elves, ect).
 
How many factions are the right amounts? Is the notion of factions flawed at best? I remember the days of EQ when there was no factions only reputation, if your reputation was bad with the Dark Elves the NPC would kill you, you could change your “Factions” by improving or degrading your rep with hundreds of different combinations.
 
However, in EQ2 it was scrapped for a 2 party system (Good vs Evil).
 
What was your favorite Faction System? From what game?
 
For me, it was Lineage 2, it was player driven with castle sieges, and player owned terrain, open PvP.

  DrunkWolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 1058

8/13/11 3:32:45 PM#2
Originally posted by Divion
Am I the only one of tired of these 2 faction systems?
 
Even in WoW I wasn’t a fan of it, it didn’t make sense nor sate my desire for variety.
Warcraft 3 had 4 Main factions (Alliance {Humans, Gnomes, Dwarves, High Elves, and Later Blood Elf}, Horde {Orcs, Ogres, Goblins, Tauren}, Night Elves {Treants, Mountain giants, Wisps, Fae} Scourge {Undead, Zombies, Skeletons, Abominations, Ghouls, ect), and even 1 Sub-Faction, Naga (Blood Elves were later mix in with them)
 
Some how, and for some reason (Lazy Developers maybe), it was condensed into 2; Factions, the Signature Alliance, and Horde – This made for some rather 1 sided choices (Especially back during Vanilla when Paladin/Shaman were Faction restricted.), it also destroyed the Lore behind WoW (Night Elf Death Knights, Death Knights joining the ALLIANCE? WTF?).
 
To me having 4 factions would made more sense, with faction restricted classes being more widespread (Example, you could only be a Death Knight if you joined the Scourge, with your Faction Boss being no-other then the Lich King -- Paladins Alliance, Blade master Horde, Hunter Night Elves, ect).
 
How many factions are the right amounts? Is the notion of factions flawed at best? I remember the days of EQ when there was no factions only reputation, if your reputation was bad with the Dark Elves the NPC would kill you, you could change your “Factions” by improving or degrading your rep with hundreds of different combinations.
 
However, in EQ2 it was scrapped for a 2 party system (Good vs Evil).
 
What was your favorite Faction System? From what game?
 
For me, it was Lineage 2, it was player driven with castle sieges, and player owned terrain, open PvP.

 Im with you, im sick of it also. infact when i see these new games come out and there is 2 factions i wont even think twice about not buying it. that system has been beat to death and im over it.

my favorite is still Asherons Call Darktide server, anybody can kill anybody no safe place on the map.

  User Deleted
8/13/11 3:35:25 PM#3

3 is awesome as it throws in so much more to the gaming experience.  Any more than 3 and it might be overkill.  I don't know though 4 or 5 would be intense but more than 3, things might seem too lopsided or spread out.

  poefue

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/07
Posts: 232

8/13/11 3:35:42 PM#4

You just brought back a ton of memories.  I remember slaughtering gnome guards for days inside Ak'Anon for the gems they would drop and getting a kill on sight rep with all gnomes.  I would just take a hike over to the minotaurs and slaughter them to get my rep back and then go back slaying the poor helpless gnomes again.  Rinse and repeat!

  Cik_Asalin

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/04
Posts: 3091

8/13/11 3:35:56 PM#5

Like DAoC, no less than 3 factions.  Which is why I'm watching Prime. http://www.primeonline.com/

 

A very organic, open-ended, player-driven game with the sandboxy elements I'm interested in: pve & pvp, 3-races, 7-professions, 6-classes, a mission system, base and advanced skill-sets to develop, player-driven merchandising & economy, resource control of "Prime" (which is dynamic), crafting, territorial control, base-building & management, 3-faction RvR, guild-control and in-factional politics, etc.

  Divion

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/09/10
Posts: 385

Those that never took a chance, never had a chance -

 
OP  8/13/11 3:36:59 PM#6
Originally posted by poefue

You just brought back a ton of memories.  I remember slaughtering gnome guards for days inside Ak'Anon for the gems they would drop and getting a kill on sight rep with all gnomes.  I would just take a hike over to the minotaurs and slaughter them to get my rep back and then go back slaying the poor helpless gnomes again.  Rinse and repeat!

But good memories right!?

 

Hahah!

  Asheram

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1858

What happens when you get 5 stars do you get a cookie? ;)

8/13/11 3:38:48 PM#7

The problem though arises if you dont have the population in a game to sustain more than 2 factions,and making each seperate faction desirable to play so the majority of that population doesnt all drift towards 1 faction therby unbalancing it even more.

I am sure if it was an easy thing to accomplish more developers would do it.

  poefue

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/07
Posts: 232

8/13/11 3:40:00 PM#8
Originally posted by Divion
Originally posted by poefue

You just brought back a ton of memories.  I remember slaughtering gnome guards for days inside Ak'Anon for the gems they would drop and getting a kill on sight rep with all gnomes.  I would just take a hike over to the minotaurs and slaughter them to get my rep back and then go back slaying the poor helpless gnomes again.  Rinse and repeat!

But good memories right!?

 

Hahah!

Pretty much all my best mmo memories are from EQ before Luclin.  Camping that testament of Vanear for Dylan Starshine to pop, getting the wurmscales for the Wurmslayer, all the corpse runs, going on Xmas holiday and remembering I had a corpse and logged back in and all my buddies instantly sent me a tell saying my body rotted.  The list goes on!

  User Deleted
8/13/11 3:42:22 PM#9

Ultima Online really did it best even with Trammel.  You had faction wars in both Tram and Fel and if you simply wanted to pvp anytime or anywhere then Fel is where you wanted to be. 

Just in case you didn't experience it, Trammel and Fel mirrored each other as in basically identical worlds if you will.  In Trammel, pvp was only consensual unless you were in a faction war which was voluntary.  Fel was the 1/2 of the game where pvp was open and anyone could be attacked.  There were consequences of becomming a murderer (stat loss for x amount of time) that sort of thing. 

  Divion

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/09/10
Posts: 385

Those that never took a chance, never had a chance -

 
OP  8/13/11 3:42:37 PM#10
Originally posted by poefue
Originally posted by Divion
Originally posted by poefue

You just brought back a ton of memories.  I remember slaughtering gnome guards for days inside Ak'Anon for the gems they would drop and getting a kill on sight rep with all gnomes.  I would just take a hike over to the minotaurs and slaughter them to get my rep back and then go back slaying the poor helpless gnomes again.  Rinse and repeat!

But good memories right!?

 

Hahah!

Pretty much all my best mmo memories are from EQ before Luclin.  Camping that testament of Vanear for Dylan Starshine to pop, getting the wurmscales for the Wurmslayer, all the corpse runs, going on Xmas holiday and remembering I had a corpse and logged back in and all my buddies instantly sent me a tell saying my body rotted.  The list goes on!

LOL CORPSE RUNS! I hated that, i learned a valuable lesson once... just becuase you think someone is your friend don't grant them permission to drag your corpse... it might end up in the middle of the ocean! BASTARD !

God i miss those days.

  Divion

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/09/10
Posts: 385

Those that never took a chance, never had a chance -

 
OP  8/13/11 3:46:23 PM#11
Originally posted by Jaco1101

Ultima Online really did it best even with Trammel.  You had faction wars in both Tram and Fel and if you simply wanted to pvp anytime or anywhere then Fel is where you wanted to be. 

Just in case you didn't experience it, Trammel and Fel mirrored each other as in basically identical worlds if you will.  In Trammel, pvp was only consensual unless you were in a faction war which was voluntary.  Fel was the 1/2 of the game where pvp was open and anyone could be attacked.  There were consequences of becomming a murderer (stat loss for x amount of time) that sort of thing. 

The Murder System was always my favorite.

Lineage 2 / Archelord did it best... i attack you, i go purple, you attack me,  you go purple, and then we fight to the death! If not i kill you or, the other way around, and once of us is a murder, -- Red name, KoS to NPCs, huge punishment for death, ect...

Archelord allowed you to put bountys on people who murdered you, made for some amusing sights...

 

1 Guy with a red name running trying to take off his Armor before the mob of 50 people chasing him caught him.

  User Deleted
8/13/11 3:46:44 PM#12
Originally posted by Asheram

The problem though arises if you dont have the population in a game to sustain more than 2 factions,and making each seperate faction desirable to play so the majority of that population doesnt all drift towards 1 faction therby unbalancing it even more.

I am sure if it was an easy thing to accomplish more developers would do it.

I'm with you on this.

 

One thing I've always wanted to see was a faction system with multi-faction grouping... maybe even guilds.  That would blur the faction distinction with FFA and add some new dynamics to gameplay.  No clue if it would be workable, but it could make things a bit different from normal.

  Lawlmonster

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/07/09
Posts: 940

Take my advice, I'm not using it anyway.

8/13/11 3:50:18 PM#13

I'd much rather games be factionless for the players, not necesarily for the NPC's, and allowed the community at large to form their own guilds, corporations, organizations, allegiances and enemies. It's far more interesting, but it's also a personal preference.

"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  Divion

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/09/10
Posts: 385

Those that never took a chance, never had a chance -

 
OP  8/13/11 3:52:48 PM#14
Originally posted by ActionMMORPG
Originally posted by Asheram

The problem though arises if you dont have the population in a game to sustain more than 2 factions,and making each seperate faction desirable to play so the majority of that population doesnt all drift towards 1 faction therby unbalancing it even more.

I am sure if it was an easy thing to accomplish more developers would do it.

I'm with you on this.

 

One thing I've always wanted to see was a faction system with multi-faction grouping... maybe even guilds.  That would blur the faction distinction with FFA and add some new dynamics to gameplay.  No clue if it would be workable, but it could make things a bit different from normal.

Well, i disagree, there is several ways you can approach it.

Incentives, overt/covert status proclaiminations, buffs, bonuses, automatice server balancing (Caps on population.).

You speak as if 2 faction systems make things balanced? I think we all have stories about how our server, and battlegroup always got owned in World PvP /  Battlegrounds... Some servers Horde sucked, others Alliance... Balance issues is perpetual regardless of number of factions.

 

If they solve those issues that solves what issues you speak of.

  Asheram

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1858

What happens when you get 5 stars do you get a cookie? ;)

8/13/11 4:08:52 PM#15

Too bad they dont at least have 2 factions and have a 3rd one that is basically neutral kind of like how Anarchy Online is.

I wonder what would happen if Warcraft added a 3rd faction would its population start to rise again instead of falling like it is atm?

  Divion

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/09/10
Posts: 385

Those that never took a chance, never had a chance -

 
OP  8/13/11 5:59:26 PM#16

I honestily though that Wrath of the Lich King was going to add Scourge as a 3rd Playable Faction.

 

Consider this.

Scourge Races :

Vyrkul (The Forbearers of the Human Race, sure why not? )

Mindless Undead (Different than their Foresaken counsins, with glowing blue eyes, different featrues, hair, ect)

Abominations (There are allot of note worthy Abominations through out the game, why not make them playable?).

Neuriban (The Undead Spiders!)

Humans (But an darker version [occulists]).

Faction only class : Death Knight

Faction Boss : The Lich King

Faction Capital : Icecrown

Faction Major Cities : Stratholm, and Sholomance.

 

Personally, that would have felt more Emersive, and allowed someone like me who always wanted to RP an Death Knight in a city of the Dead to feel right at home, eating Ghoul guts, and drinking Maggot Slime..

Nothing felt more off as trying to RP as a Death Knight in the Hot Southern Kingdom of Stormwind, with Angry looking Paladins eye balling me as i rode past on my Undead Steed.... through meadows, and a sunny forest... really?

  Sensai

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/04
Posts: 92

8/13/11 9:02:50 PM#17
Originally posted by Asheram

The problem though arises if you dont have the population in a game to sustain more than 2 factions,and making each seperate faction desirable to play so the majority of that population doesnt all drift towards 1 faction therby unbalancing it even more.

I am sure if it was an easy thing to accomplish more developers would do it.

 ^^ This is why you have 3 factions.  If you can't support 3, you wont have 2 even populated factions either.  Three factions generally take care of any population imbalance while 2 faction systems exploit the problem and make it worse.

  DarkVagabond

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/06
Posts: 239

8/13/11 9:07:18 PM#18

race locking is substantially more annoying, regardless of the number of factions.

And I really dislike this forced rivalry, it never feels even moderately legit.

 

Hatred should arise naturally, people are good at it after all.

  DrunkWolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 1058

8/13/11 9:07:43 PM#19
Originally posted by Divion
Originally posted by Jaco1101

Ultima Online really did it best even with Trammel.  You had faction wars in both Tram and Fel and if you simply wanted to pvp anytime or anywhere then Fel is where you wanted to be. 

Just in case you didn't experience it, Trammel and Fel mirrored each other as in basically identical worlds if you will.  In Trammel, pvp was only consensual unless you were in a faction war which was voluntary.  Fel was the 1/2 of the game where pvp was open and anyone could be attacked.  There were consequences of becomming a murderer (stat loss for x amount of time) that sort of thing. 

The Murder System was always my favorite.

Lineage 2 / Archelord did it best... i attack you, i go purple, you attack me,  you go purple, and then we fight to the death! If not i kill you or, the other way around, and once of us is a murder, -- Red name, KoS to NPCs, huge punishment for death, ect...

Archelord allowed you to put bountys on people who murdered you, made for some amusing sights...

 

1 Guy with a red name running trying to take off his Armor before the mob of 50 people chasing him caught him.

 Archlord system was funny with the bountys, worst part is if you had a bounty on your head and sombody killed you. well you just lost a ton of XP and in that game XP is not easy to get at higher levels. you could lose like 5% xp and that is about 4 hours of grinding.

one thing i really did like in Archlord though was the sieges, i thought they did a good job on their siege system ( except for the lag of course ) but the consept behind it was really good.

  Kilrain

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/25/03
Posts: 473

8/13/11 9:18:03 PM#20

"multiple" - I would want more than 3 and the ability to change faction just like EQ did.

professional web programming and design.

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