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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: 'Welfare Epics'

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284 posts found
  neorandom

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/08
Posts: 1753

8/09/11 1:19:48 AM#241
Originally posted by Palebane
Originally posted by Wraithone

 

 Well... "Social interaction" isn't what it once was... At this point on the down slope, I see no reason what so ever for dealing with around 98% plus of the gaming population. Make that 99% plus of the general population... ^^  Designing games that rely on "social interaction" is setting ones game up to either fail, and/or become a haven for trolls and griefers. 

Unless one is an ideologue, one deals with reality as it exists, rather than as one might wish it to be.  The reality is that WAY too many people these days have a distinct lack of civility, coupled with an entitlement complex the size of all out doors. Add in a near total lack of critical thinking, and thoughtfullness, and one has the general population, of which the gaming population is a sub set. 

One of the ways that something like WoW's Dungeon Finder could be more useful, is to link it to ignore lists at *account* level.  That way, if someone is a total nit wit, you just /ignore them, and the system excludes them from any future matches with you.  Designing systems to deal with ones target audience (and their traits) makes good sense, from both a functionality perspective, as well as business wise. 

 While I agree with most of what you say, dealing with reality as it exists only works if one is not complacent about it. Ignoring the problem only serves to make it worse in many cases. There is no reason not to strive for more, save laziness or apathy. Why couldn't there be revolutionary game mechanics that cause players to want to work together and to help and care about one another? Perhaps online communities could eventually go a long way toward fixing the problems you speak of, not only in video games, but within humanity as a whole. I know its a huge stretch, but nothing is impossible.

humanity is a lost cause, greed and corruption are now bread into the dna of every new fukwit born.  theres no fixing whats left of the species, only extinction can cure them now.

  Jorendo

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 210

8/09/11 9:35:09 AM#242

Originally posted by toodlepip123



Im amazed that some people think its a terrible idea for others to have access to base gear. Guess what? If you want good epics, switch the difficulty of the raid to max.


 


Running the same raid over and over ad infinitum and not seeing the drop you want, and when it does finally drop, you have to roll against other people for it...  Yea.. that is not fun at all.


 


Bioware are distributing loot the right way. The only thing that has not been confirmed is the amount of commendations that you could recieve in the loot bag. It could only be 1, with a single piece of gear costing 10+



Totally agree with this. I never been a raider in WoW, a big part of it was because of the low changes you would even get the gear. First you must hope the item even drops and then in most raid guilds you had to build up points before you where even allowed to roll for it. Minimizing the already few changes you had to ever get it. And sorry for those who where the uber raiders, but i had a social life, i was still in college and i found getting  my diploma a bit more important then getting that epic sword or what ever and saterdays i was in a bar for hours with friends instead of being in a raid.


 

So if you didn't spend 90% of your life in raids you could kiss those epics goodbye. Yeah thats nice and fair. Only those who didn't need 6+ hours sleep per night or had no job/school could get a change to get epics with the last few years of WoW's raid guilds. YOu should check the demand list for fun, how many hours you should be aviable. And missing one raid would give you a warning...with 2 missed raids you where out. Totally forgetting it was just a game and that unlike some raiders most people have a social life, job/school, any other reason why they can't spend a insane ammount of time in the game.

  kwai

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/27/04
Posts: 843

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti.

8/09/11 10:02:33 AM#243

Well in some ways its good and some ways its bad, but again the mmo companies now a days tend to cater to all the carebears of gaming, to get that certain piece of item shouldn't be easy, but then again shouldn't be super hard either, but to just give a loot container to each member, psssh,  the raid content will be over before the game even got a month old, just look at Rift.


Less than a month into that game, people had already conquered most of greenscale, if end game becomes to easy, the game becomes boring as fuck.


  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5155

8/09/11 10:08:22 AM#244
This is not about killing bosses Kendane or who gets what loot. It is about needing a group of trusted friends to do raids. Easymode ruins that and it is one of the strongest factors which makes a player feel part of an online community.
 
Anything that makes players need to attend, on a regular basis for more than a brief amount of time and work in a team makes players see a MMO as their online life. Otherwise it is just a solo game with other players online with you.
 
It is a question of balance, I would not recommend a MMO play style that requires players to be on every evening in a raid (or whatever) team. But say twice a week for four hours a go is hardly a prison sentence.
 
We will all differ on how much time we think we can spend. But if we don’t do enough extended play as a group or guild with that feeling of achieving something together it is a solo game in all but name.
 
As to SWTOR I am not following the game that closely (I never do prelaunch); so hard to say where it will be regarding this issue.
  Latronus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 718

PC is not political correctness, it means Political Cowardice!

8/09/11 10:11:41 AM#245
Originally posted by kwai

Well in some ways its good and some ways its bad, but again the mmo companies now a days tend to cater to all the carebears of gaming, to get that certain piece of item shouldn't be easy, but then again shouldn't be super hard either, but to just give a loot container to each member, psssh,  the raid content will be over before the game even got a month old, just look at Rift.


Less than a month into that game, people had already conquered most of greenscale, if end game becomes to easy, the game becomes boring as fuck.

YES, each toon gets a bag, NO that bag does not guarantee the player that fabled drop.  IT gives you a "chance".  What that chance is we don't know, BW has not and probably will not give us the percentages.  So, we could end up with the exact same raid grind that we currently have in every other MMO out today.  Selective reading is just as bad as selective listening and when you assume...

We're just going to have to wait and see when the game is released.  It could be easier, it could be harder or it just might be exactly the same as it is now with the exception of the rolling for loot being done behind the scene.

You are right though, if the end game is easy, it does become BORING.

  Nifa

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 327

You can get more with a kind word & a 2x4 than you can with just a kind word

8/09/11 10:38:31 AM#246
Originally posted by Palebane
Originally posted by Nifa

Fact is, the elitist jackasses that tend to have the point of view the terminology indicates find their way onto my ignore list very quickly anymore.

 So you are too elite for the elitist jackasses? Ironic.

What you call elite, I call being tired of putting up with people whose entire estimation of a player is based around what gear they're wearing. /shrug

Personally, I don't appreciate and won't tolerate players who openly insult anyone based on gear choices (particularly if the gear choices are proper for their class and spec and the player hasn't been able to get anything better and is able to do just fine with what they're wearing), but that's just me. To each their own.

Have a nice day.

Firebrand Art

"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman

Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr

  Palebane

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/04
Posts: 3247

8/09/11 11:05:43 AM#247

 



Originally posted by neorandom



humanity is a lost cause, greed and corruption are now bread into the dna of every new fukwit born.  theres no fixing whats left of the species, only extinction can cure them now.


 I used to feel that way when I was younger. I guess my perspective changed when I had children. I'm obligated to see things more positively now. There is still hope, I see it in my son's eyes every day.
 



What you call elite, I call being tired of putting up with people whose entire estimation of a player is based around what gear they're wearing. /shrug
Personally, I don't appreciate and won't tolerate players who openly insult anyone based on gear choices (particularly if the gear choices are proper for their class and spec and the player hasn't been able to get anything better and is able to do just fine with what they're wearing), but that's just me. To each their own.

I agree with you. It's still ironic though. =)

Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  Xodroc

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 4

8/09/11 12:54:26 PM#248

This is one of the things I hate about themepark games,  the whole loot vending model. The endless cycle of adding new to content to make gear from the previous content obsolete.  How long before they'll have to come up with pretty lame story excuses just to add a new hampster maze with tastier treats.  


 


I would much rather see a fully player crafted system akin to SWG, which was one of it's greatest srengths, before they tried and failed to turn it into a themepark game.   Not gonna happen of course.


Blah

  Malagarr

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/11/07
Posts: 13

8/09/11 1:41:42 PM#249

I can't help but laugh anytime I hear the phrase "welfare epics".  I imagine Vork from The Guild being the prime recipient of welfare epics...as in, he mooches off everyone else IRL so that he can spend all his time in game "earning" uber lewtz.


Anyhow, I like this proposed system.  If they can tie in contribution to the value of the rewards, all the better.


  Spazzin

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/11
Posts: 1

8/09/11 1:50:14 PM#250

I like this option Bioware is considering. As I get older with more and more real life responsibilities (Work, House, Kid on the way) I find myself with less and less time to invest hours upon hours into an MMO so it will be nice to know I will get something for my efforts even if it's not an all nighter.

  xKingdomx

Novice Member

Joined: 8/24/10
Posts: 1550

8/09/11 6:06:01 PM#251
Originally posted by neorandom
Originally posted by Palebane
Originally posted by Wraithone

 

 Well... "Social interaction" isn't what it once was... At this point on the down slope, I see no reason what so ever for dealing with around 98% plus of the gaming population. Make that 99% plus of the general population... ^^  Designing games that rely on "social interaction" is setting ones game up to either fail, and/or become a haven for trolls and griefers. 

Unless one is an ideologue, one deals with reality as it exists, rather than as one might wish it to be.  The reality is that WAY too many people these days have a distinct lack of civility, coupled with an entitlement complex the size of all out doors. Add in a near total lack of critical thinking, and thoughtfullness, and one has the general population, of which the gaming population is a sub set. 

One of the ways that something like WoW's Dungeon Finder could be more useful, is to link it to ignore lists at *account* level.  That way, if someone is a total nit wit, you just /ignore them, and the system excludes them from any future matches with you.  Designing systems to deal with ones target audience (and their traits) makes good sense, from both a functionality perspective, as well as business wise. 

 While I agree with most of what you say, dealing with reality as it exists only works if one is not complacent about it. Ignoring the problem only serves to make it worse in many cases. There is no reason not to strive for more, save laziness or apathy. Why couldn't there be revolutionary game mechanics that cause players to want to work together and to help and care about one another? Perhaps online communities could eventually go a long way toward fixing the problems you speak of, not only in video games, but within humanity as a whole. I know its a huge stretch, but nothing is impossible.

humanity is a lost cause, greed and corruption are now bread into the dna of every new fukwit born.  theres no fixing whats left of the species, only extinction can cure them now.

Unless you are an Alien, I suggest you change you phasing to "only extinction can cure US now"

This is a game, why so serious..........if you want to argue human is greedy, well we were doomed from the very beginning, Greed is a basic human emotion, it is impossible for any human to not feel greed at one moment of their lives and not felt compell by it. It is because of this greed that drives people to achieve and earn things, the negative is only when people are so compelled by it that they decided to hurt others just so they can gain their own satisifaction, thats not Greed, thats is call being Selfish, which is what corrupting MMO right now. It is a MMO design fault as much as the players.

No one cares about the player next to you, as far as every player knows, they are there to compete with you, gear, mob, resources and what not. No players like to see anyone in a game, because that only means lesser chance for gear, less mobs to complete quest, less chance of getting quest items. No game has ever done anything about it, at least SWTOR (and GW2) is trying to achieve that player socialisation by removing the competition of gears, the other deciding factor for you obtaining gear is due to a drop rate, not if other players are rolling the same thing as you.

You are just as corrupted, corrupt with pessimism. Nothing is ever a lost cause, unless the person saving it gives up, maybe you are lost cause.

How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.

  Gismoland

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/08/05
Posts: 69

If you can''t see what''s in your soul, then what''s the point of looking at a mirror?!

8/09/11 6:46:48 PM#252

Best Idea Eva!..


You can run to the chest before anyone else and NINJA Loot it.. Right........................!


Stick with the Lootsystem in BETA.. was soo much easy and didnt have to fuss over items..


  djvapid

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 82

8/09/11 7:04:07 PM#253

The only people complaining about Welfare are the retards with no lives.  They play the game like a job (and in many cases, they try to turn it into a job).  Playing upwards of 8 hours a day or more.  These are the same pathetic trash from the shallow end of the gene pool who complain about lack of content because they spent their life on the game. 


  Vidharr

Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/06
Posts: 24

Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and listen to the lamentation of their women!

8/09/11 8:07:37 PM#254

{mod edit}


It's either:


1:  Belonging to a big guild or willing to PUG endlessly.


or


2.  Having no family, no job or no girl friend, and no friends or basically no life outside a game.


Making it all worse in most games is going on a big raid with 3 dozen people, taking 4-5 hours or more to do it, and then only 3 people get loot when all is said and done.  That's BS of the highest magnitude, especially when in some games, player manipulation can affect loot drops. Not even mentioning when a tank item drops and a stealther rolls on it.


Bioware is doing the right thing here, and for all you whiners that want to be the only people with epics (which is the ONLY reason you're whining) to f'ing bad.


Regardless of the designation, as long as that aircraft is assigned to drop things in the dirt, it's a target, not a fighter. - Robert Shaw, "Fighter Combat: Tactics and Maneuvering"

  Roccprofit

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/10
Posts: 98

AI has nothing on natural stupidity.

8/09/11 8:56:17 PM#255

 In this day and age this is certainaly the better of the choices IMO. It may not be perfect in some peoples eyes but, the trouble in games like wow is two fold:

 1. Some kid or worse, an adult with a 12-13 year old mentality, rolls on an item he/she has no use for, can not even equip it and does it just because in there stupidity they think it is neat to deprive a person that can use it of having it.

 2. There are a great number of equally moronic players who just happened to have had the time before you to get the high end gear, they then sit back and act like they did it on there own and refuse to help others. This was another big thing in wow. In most cases these particular mental midgets went in with a friend that was already well geared and they some how think this makes them better then you. These tended to be the idiots that would base hellping you on your gear score, knowing full well they did not get there gear score alone, they want to pass judgment in a most childish fashion.

 The reality is that everyone that puts in the time and effort deserves something for there time and due to the above mentioned small minded people the truely deserving rarely get a shot at it.

 I completly expect one of these so minded idgets to reply to this with something such as "l2p" or " lack the skills to get it your self ?" or something equally ignorant. To them I say when you get 20 of your friends to help you take out a boss that you can solo IF you knew how to play that is NOT skill.

 Glad Bioware is not going to let this type's of fools ruin the game for others.

  xpiher

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3297

8/09/11 11:59:56 PM#256

why would they go for gear grind hamster wheel... 



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Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher

  Foomerang

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 4764

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

8/10/11 12:06:18 AM#257


Originally posted by xpiher
why would they go for gear grind hamster wheel... 

because gere grind gerbil gym was already taken?

If you thought the events were dynamic, you'll think the stories are living.

  yodablaze

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 229

8/10/11 12:15:28 AM#258
Originally posted by xKingdomx

Unless you are an Alien, I suggest you change you phasing to "only extinction can cure US now"

This is a game, why so serious..........if you want to argue human is greedy, well we were doomed from the very beginning, Greed is a basic human emotion, it is impossible for any human to not feel greed at one moment of their lives and not felt compell by it. It is because of this greed that drives people to achieve and earn things, the negative is only when people are so compelled by it that they decided to hurt others just so they can gain their own satisifaction, thats not Greed, thats is call being Selfish, which is what corrupting MMO right now. It is a MMO design fault as much as the players.

No one cares about the player next to you, as far as every player knows, they are there to compete with you, gear, mob, resources and what not. No players like to see anyone in a game, because that only means lesser chance for gear, less mobs to complete quest, less chance of getting quest items. No game has ever done anything about it, at least SWTOR (and GW2) is trying to achieve that player socialisation by removing the competition of gears, the other deciding factor for you obtaining gear is due to a drop rate, not if other players are rolling the same thing as you.

You are just as corrupted, corrupt with pessimism. Nothing is ever a lost cause, unless the person saving it gives up, maybe you are lost cause.

I agree to some degree. I believe the new system is fair and would help solve a lot of issues with player interaction all around. Instead of blaming another player for needing the same item that you've run the same instance 10 times in a row to get, you can be content with the idea that "chance" dealt you what you have received. Blame it on bad luck, not the other players.

  Ethiliam

Novice Member

Joined: 12/15/08
Posts: 1

8/10/11 6:36:41 AM#259

I like the idea of 'loot containers'.  If I ever get around to raiding, then at least I get a reward for the time and effort I put into it.  Not everyone has the time to raid every day/week, but even they would like to see some reward for the few times they do have the time.


  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5155

8/10/11 8:30:54 AM#260

I like the idea that millions of teens will get used to the concept of welfare before they end up on it. :D

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