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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: 'Welfare Epics'

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  Kendane

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/11
Posts: 222

8/04/11 10:44:31 PM#221
Originally posted by Palebane
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by Kendane
Originally posted by Scot
Lovers of easymode gameplay always bring up the old chestnut about people with families and so on. But they conveniently do not take their argument to its logical conclusion. What incentive is there to play more? If you get hardly any extra reward why bother to put twice as much time in…and for the same fee? And it is time spent online which develops a community feel, means that you can play in a group any time of the day, which makes a MMO your online home. This time conscious mentality is turning our MMO’s into pick up and put down solo games, but that’s what the companies want and the gamers that got them to where they are today can go hang themselves for all they care.
 
Also MMO’s have seen an increasing downward demographic in age. If I am wrong here it would have to be the old guys who had consoles when the teenies had PC’s. And the old guys who were all on social networking sites while the teenies were not. We know it was the reverse and that’s why the demographic is now a lot younger than it used to be.

 How is killing the boss, and maybe, we don't even have a percentage, of getting your gear, but at the very least some consulation prize easy mode?  If maybe 2 people get an item out of a 16 person raid, and the WoW equivlent would yield the same, how is this different?  Other than a guild leader getting to lord over who receives the shinies, theres nothing different.  If the boss was easy, than its still easy mode if they were using WoWs method, heck in general you get tokens to get gear in WoW for killing the boss.  So I don't see where this easy mode, welfare epics, etc etc is coming from?  Is the problem that more than 2 people get something, or that you cant dictate who gets what?

 

Because in The Old Days, we had to have 110% attendence on raids, 6-8 hours a night, 7 days a week, or we'd get negative DKP points!  Not only that, but we had to walk barefoot to the raids, through 8 feet of snow, up hill (both ways)... ^^ 

To certain types, "easy mode" means anything that normal non fanatic gamers can achieve.  In other words, their shiny purples are tied into their self worth, and by extension how they judge others worth.  That feeds into the entire Gear Score 733t attitude some people are prone to.  Its nice that Bioware is taking a different approach. 

 Perhaps the irony of this is that many players look up to those elite players with their shiny epics. And well, if they can't get them too, the game is unfair. In comes loot containers for all.

 

Yes, I know, the loot containers will curb ninja looters and corrupt loot distributuion; things that used to be dealt with by the players. I am happy that players will not get screwed over as much, but disappointed we've come to the point where we let the game mechanics dictate or depricate the social order we, as players, used to have control of. That was one of the aspects of these games that I actually enjoyed.

 And I'm asking how someone kill a boss and loot being decided by random chance is any different than the mob droping loot on its body by random chance, aside from everyone getting a consulation prize, and maybe a piece of epic loot.  Why does it matter how loot is distributed, why is someone handing out loot through a master loot system superior to random chance?  Who cares if someone gets their loot faster than someone else?  Generally in the raids I've been in even if someone has all the best gear, they go back to either help the guild, have fun, or both.  The way it worked in my WoW guild was you were on a list, you bid on an item, if you won it, you dropped to the bottom of the list, and could only move up if you were at a raid.  But this works out on any schdual, instead of some people intially having an advantage over someone else because they have more free time, or their free time warrents itself to raiding better than someone else.  If a hardcore raider can go on more raids, hes still going to get all his gear faster than someone who can only come half the time in most cases, and if the person that comes half the time gets lucky and gears up first, who cares?  That still means that when that person attends raids everyone will benefit from the increased damage.  Also theres less feeling discouraged because you got nothing, since sure you get a measly token, but at least its working towards something.

  Palebane

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/04
Posts: 3247

8/04/11 10:52:35 PM#222
Originally posted by Kendane
Originally posted by Palebane
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by Kendane
Originally posted by Scot
Lovers of easymode gameplay always bring up the old chestnut about people with families and so on. But they conveniently do not take their argument to its logical conclusion. What incentive is there to play more? If you get hardly any extra reward why bother to put twice as much time in…and for the same fee? And it is time spent online which develops a community feel, means that you can play in a group any time of the day, which makes a MMO your online home. This time conscious mentality is turning our MMO’s into pick up and put down solo games, but that’s what the companies want and the gamers that got them to where they are today can go hang themselves for all they care.
 
Also MMO’s have seen an increasing downward demographic in age. If I am wrong here it would have to be the old guys who had consoles when the teenies had PC’s. And the old guys who were all on social networking sites while the teenies were not. We know it was the reverse and that’s why the demographic is now a lot younger than it used to be.

 How is killing the boss, and maybe, we don't even have a percentage, of getting your gear, but at the very least some consulation prize easy mode?  If maybe 2 people get an item out of a 16 person raid, and the WoW equivlent would yield the same, how is this different?  Other than a guild leader getting to lord over who receives the shinies, theres nothing different.  If the boss was easy, than its still easy mode if they were using WoWs method, heck in general you get tokens to get gear in WoW for killing the boss.  So I don't see where this easy mode, welfare epics, etc etc is coming from?  Is the problem that more than 2 people get something, or that you cant dictate who gets what?

 

Because in The Old Days, we had to have 110% attendence on raids, 6-8 hours a night, 7 days a week, or we'd get negative DKP points!  Not only that, but we had to walk barefoot to the raids, through 8 feet of snow, up hill (both ways)... ^^ 

To certain types, "easy mode" means anything that normal non fanatic gamers can achieve.  In other words, their shiny purples are tied into their self worth, and by extension how they judge others worth.  That feeds into the entire Gear Score 733t attitude some people are prone to.  Its nice that Bioware is taking a different approach. 

 Perhaps the irony of this is that many players look up to those elite players with their shiny epics. And well, if they can't get them too, the game is unfair. In comes loot containers for all.

 

Yes, I know, the loot containers will curb ninja looters and corrupt loot distributuion; things that used to be dealt with by the players. I am happy that players will not get screwed over as much, but disappointed we've come to the point where we let the game mechanics dictate or depricate the social order we, as players, used to have control of. That was one of the aspects of these games that I actually enjoyed.

 And I'm asking how someone kill a boss and loot being decided by random chance is any different than the mob droping loot on its body by random chance, aside from everyone getting a consulation prize, and maybe a piece of epic loot.  Why does it matter how loot is distributed, why is someone handing out loot through a master loot system superior to random chance?  Who cares if someone gets their loot faster than someone else?  Generally in the raids I've been in even if someone has all the best gear, they go back to either help the guild, have fun, or both.  The way it worked in my WoW guild was you were on a list, you bid on an item, if you won it, you dropped to the bottom of the list, and could only move up if you were at a raid.  But this works out on any schdual, instead of some people intially having an advantage over someone else because they have more free time, or their free time warrents itself to raiding better than someone else.  If a hardcore raider can go on more raids, hes still going to get all his gear faster than someone who can only come half the time in most cases, and if the person that comes half the time gets lucky and gears up first, who cares?  That still means that when that person attends raids everyone will benefit from the increased damage.  Also theres less feeling discouraged because you got nothing, since sure you get a measly token, but at least its working towards something.

 It doesn't matter. Master looter is not superior to random chance. I cannot argue with your logic. As a bit of an underachiever, I really don't understand why players have to have the best gear in the first place. Is random chance superior to master looter in this regard?

Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  User Deleted
8/04/11 10:56:14 PM#223


Please note, this feature is currently in Game Testing and may well be modified before launch.

Whew! Im sure glad they put that disclaimer there at the end. Otherwise we might have had pages and pages of endless bickeri... oh wait.

  Palebane

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/04
Posts: 3247

8/04/11 10:58:22 PM#224
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Please note, this feature is currently in Game Testing and may well be modified before launch.

 

Whew! Im sure glad they put that disclaimer there at the end. Otherwise we might have had pages and pages of endless bickeri... oh wait.

 Oh, come on, Foom, don't try to depriciate our precious forum PvP.

Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  User Deleted
8/04/11 11:02:10 PM#225


Originally posted by Palebane


Originally posted by Foomerang
 



Please note, this feature is currently in Game Testing and may well be modified before launch.



 
Whew! Im sure glad they put that disclaimer there at the end. Otherwise we might have had pages and pages of endless bickeri... oh wait.


 Oh, come on, Foom, don't try to depriciate our precious forum PvP.


I was just spamming a little CC. By all means, continue DPSing.

  Kendane

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/11
Posts: 222

8/04/11 11:12:08 PM#226
Originally posted by Palebane
Originally posted by Kendane
Originally posted by Palebane
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by Kendane
Originally posted by Scot
Lovers of easymode gameplay always bring up the old chestnut about people with families and so on. But they conveniently do not take their argument to its logical conclusion. What incentive is there to play more? If you get hardly any extra reward why bother to put twice as much time in…and for the same fee? And it is time spent online which develops a community feel, means that you can play in a group any time of the day, which makes a MMO your online home. This time conscious mentality is turning our MMO’s into pick up and put down solo games, but that’s what the companies want and the gamers that got them to where they are today can go hang themselves for all they care.
 
Also MMO’s have seen an increasing downward demographic in age. If I am wrong here it would have to be the old guys who had consoles when the teenies had PC’s. And the old guys who were all on social networking sites while the teenies were not. We know it was the reverse and that’s why the demographic is now a lot younger than it used to be.

 How is killing the boss, and maybe, we don't even have a percentage, of getting your gear, but at the very least some consulation prize easy mode?  If maybe 2 people get an item out of a 16 person raid, and the WoW equivlent would yield the same, how is this different?  Other than a guild leader getting to lord over who receives the shinies, theres nothing different.  If the boss was easy, than its still easy mode if they were using WoWs method, heck in general you get tokens to get gear in WoW for killing the boss.  So I don't see where this easy mode, welfare epics, etc etc is coming from?  Is the problem that more than 2 people get something, or that you cant dictate who gets what?

 

Because in The Old Days, we had to have 110% attendence on raids, 6-8 hours a night, 7 days a week, or we'd get negative DKP points!  Not only that, but we had to walk barefoot to the raids, through 8 feet of snow, up hill (both ways)... ^^ 

To certain types, "easy mode" means anything that normal non fanatic gamers can achieve.  In other words, their shiny purples are tied into their self worth, and by extension how they judge others worth.  That feeds into the entire Gear Score 733t attitude some people are prone to.  Its nice that Bioware is taking a different approach. 

 Perhaps the irony of this is that many players look up to those elite players with their shiny epics. And well, if they can't get them too, the game is unfair. In comes loot containers for all.

 

Yes, I know, the loot containers will curb ninja looters and corrupt loot distributuion; things that used to be dealt with by the players. I am happy that players will not get screwed over as much, but disappointed we've come to the point where we let the game mechanics dictate or depricate the social order we, as players, used to have control of. That was one of the aspects of these games that I actually enjoyed.

 And I'm asking how someone kill a boss and loot being decided by random chance is any different than the mob droping loot on its body by random chance, aside from everyone getting a consulation prize, and maybe a piece of epic loot.  Why does it matter how loot is distributed, why is someone handing out loot through a master loot system superior to random chance?  Who cares if someone gets their loot faster than someone else?  Generally in the raids I've been in even if someone has all the best gear, they go back to either help the guild, have fun, or both.  The way it worked in my WoW guild was you were on a list, you bid on an item, if you won it, you dropped to the bottom of the list, and could only move up if you were at a raid.  But this works out on any schdual, instead of some people intially having an advantage over someone else because they have more free time, or their free time warrents itself to raiding better than someone else.  If a hardcore raider can go on more raids, hes still going to get all his gear faster than someone who can only come half the time in most cases, and if the person that comes half the time gets lucky and gears up first, who cares?  That still means that when that person attends raids everyone will benefit from the increased damage.  Also theres less feeling discouraged because you got nothing, since sure you get a measly token, but at least its working towards something.

 It doesn't matter. Master looter is not superior to random chance. I cannot argue with your logic. As a bit of an underachiever, I really don't understand why players have to have the best gear in the first place. Is random chance superior to master looter in this regard?

 Look, I don't particularly care about having the best loot in the game either, that kind of stuff doesn't matter to me.  I was just wondering why it mattered how loot was distributed.  I was just wondering if there was any particular reason you prefered one system to the other.  Even if you have no reason, fair enough, so people prefer a particular method over another just because.  I was just curious, sorry if I sounded hostile, its just sometimes people against it seem to be elitists whose only reason is to keep gear to themselves.  As for your question if random chance is superior, I see getting anything better than the possibility of going through 3 raids getting absololutly nothing as an improvement, even if people might get frustrated with getting the consluation prize over epic loot after several runs.  But again, thats just my opinon.  Also wow these quote replys are getting long lol.

  xKingdomx

Novice Member

Joined: 8/24/10
Posts: 1550

8/05/11 8:22:58 AM#227
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by Palebane


Originally posted by Foomerang
 



Please note, this feature is currently in Game Testing and may well be modified before launch.



 
Whew! Im sure glad they put that disclaimer there at the end. Otherwise we might have had pages and pages of endless bickeri... oh wait.



 Oh, come on, Foom, don't try to depriciate our precious forum PvP.


I was just spamming a little CC. By all means, continue DPSing.

 

I thought we got rid of the trinity system? oh wait, thats GW2

 

I think some people are thinking the gear drop from the loot container will always be the latest and greatest gear, it isn't, the article just says some form of gear, it doesn't mean you don't have to work for the better ones, it just means you aren't in conflict with your own group. I personally think it should have some sort of contribution tally, whoever contributed the most gets the bestest gear, then the second best and so on, but then, this isn't GW2 you can't tally much when you can only either take damage, dps or heal, but I'm sure the devs can work something out

How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.

  Palebane

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/04
Posts: 3247

8/05/11 9:29:52 AM#228
Originally posted by Kendane
Originally posted by Palebane
Originally posted by Kendane
Originally posted by Palebane

 Perhaps the irony of this is that many players look up to those elite players with their shiny epics. And well, if they can't get them too, the game is unfair. In comes loot containers for all.

 

Yes, I know, the loot containers will curb ninja looters and corrupt loot distributuion; things that used to be dealt with by the players. I am happy that players will not get screwed over as much, but disappointed we've come to the point where we let the game mechanics dictate or depricate the social order we, as players, used to have control of. That was one of the aspects of these games that I actually enjoyed.

 And I'm asking how someone kill a boss and loot being decided by random chance is any different than the mob droping loot on its body by random chance, aside from everyone getting a consulation prize, and maybe a piece of epic loot.  Why does it matter how loot is distributed, why is someone handing out loot through a master loot system superior to random chance?  Who cares if someone gets their loot faster than someone else?  Generally in the raids I've been in even if someone has all the best gear, they go back to either help the guild, have fun, or both.  The way it worked in my WoW guild was you were on a list, you bid on an item, if you won it, you dropped to the bottom of the list, and could only move up if you were at a raid.  But this works out on any schdual, instead of some people intially having an advantage over someone else because they have more free time, or their free time warrents itself to raiding better than someone else.  If a hardcore raider can go on more raids, hes still going to get all his gear faster than someone who can only come half the time in most cases, and if the person that comes half the time gets lucky and gears up first, who cares?  That still means that when that person attends raids everyone will benefit from the increased damage.  Also theres less feeling discouraged because you got nothing, since sure you get a measly token, but at least its working towards something.

 It doesn't matter. Master looter is not superior to random chance. I cannot argue with your logic. As a bit of an underachiever, I really don't understand why players have to have the best gear in the first place. Is random chance superior to master looter in this regard?

 Look, I don't particularly care about having the best loot in the game either, that kind of stuff doesn't matter to me.  I was just wondering why it mattered how loot was distributed.  I was just wondering if there was any particular reason you prefered one system to the other.  Even if you have no reason, fair enough, so people prefer a particular method over another just because.  I was just curious, sorry if I sounded hostile, its just sometimes people against it seem to be elitists whose only reason is to keep gear to themselves.  As for your question if random chance is superior, I see getting anything better than the possibility of going through 3 raids getting absololutly nothing as an improvement, even if people might get frustrated with getting the consluation prize over epic loot after several runs.  But again, thats just my opinon.  Also wow these quote replys are getting long lol.

Since you are curious, I highlighted my reason for prefering master looter over random chance in my above post. I didn't think you were being hostile. Your question was valid, and after further deliberation, I think you are right. For me, this mechanic is another step toward completely desocializing a genre that was built and based upon social interaction, whether or not it was always pleasant. As you said, it is just a preference.

Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  MikeB

MMORPG.com Community Manager

Joined: 5/27/09
Posts: 5427

 
OP  8/05/11 10:41:43 AM#229
Originally posted by Nifa

 

Originally posted by MikeB

MMORPG.com Community Manager Michael Bitton discusses the recent revelations regarding Star Wars: The Old Republic's Operation loot distribution in this week's The Old Republic column.




Last week, we reported on a story that shed some light on BioWare’s current approach to loot distribution in Operations. Differing somewhat from other games on the market, BioWare’s approach involves granting all players an individual loot container at the end of a key Operation encounter. These containers will offer a chance at class-specific gear. Even in the absence of desired loot, the containers will, at the very least, contain commendations that can be traded for class-specific loot at appropriate vendors. Think Warhammer Online’s ‘PQ Bags,’ though there is no word on whether there will be different quality containers based on contribution level.


Read more of Michael Bitton's Star Wars: The Old Republic: 'Welfare Epics'.


 

 

Wow, Michael. Your word choice was so poor, I couldn't be bothered to read your article. Could you possibly come across as any more of an ass? If you play this game, I hope to God you aren't on my server - alternately, I hope I know your toon name, so I can instantly ignore you. People who use terms like 'welfare epic' are the type of people who gained WoW the dubious (and true) reputation of having the worst community in gaming. You'd think an industry writer would know better.

Notice how the term is in quotes in the headline? And how I feel positively about the system while trying to reassure the 'welfare epics' crowd that everything will be alright? Oh right, you didn't read the article. ;)

Michael "MikeB" Bitton
Community Manager
Twitter: @eMikeB

  Kendane

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/11
Posts: 222

8/05/11 7:11:09 PM#230
Originally posted by Palebane
Originally posted by Kendane
Originally posted by Palebane
Originally posted by Kendane
Originally posted by Palebane

 Perhaps the irony of this is that many players look up to those elite players with their shiny epics. And well, if they can't get them too, the game is unfair. In comes loot containers for all.

 

Yes, I know, the loot containers will curb ninja looters and corrupt loot distributuion; things that used to be dealt with by the players. I am happy that players will not get screwed over as much, but disappointed we've come to the point where we let the game mechanics dictate or depricate the social order we, as players, used to have control of. That was one of the aspects of these games that I actually enjoyed.

 And I'm asking how someone kill a boss and loot being decided by random chance is any different than the mob droping loot on its body by random chance, aside from everyone getting a consulation prize, and maybe a piece of epic loot.  Why does it matter how loot is distributed, why is someone handing out loot through a master loot system superior to random chance?  Who cares if someone gets their loot faster than someone else?  Generally in the raids I've been in even if someone has all the best gear, they go back to either help the guild, have fun, or both.  The way it worked in my WoW guild was you were on a list, you bid on an item, if you won it, you dropped to the bottom of the list, and could only move up if you were at a raid.  But this works out on any schdual, instead of some people intially having an advantage over someone else because they have more free time, or their free time warrents itself to raiding better than someone else.  If a hardcore raider can go on more raids, hes still going to get all his gear faster than someone who can only come half the time in most cases, and if the person that comes half the time gets lucky and gears up first, who cares?  That still means that when that person attends raids everyone will benefit from the increased damage.  Also theres less feeling discouraged because you got nothing, since sure you get a measly token, but at least its working towards something.

 It doesn't matter. Master looter is not superior to random chance. I cannot argue with your logic. As a bit of an underachiever, I really don't understand why players have to have the best gear in the first place. Is random chance superior to master looter in this regard?

 Look, I don't particularly care about having the best loot in the game either, that kind of stuff doesn't matter to me.  I was just wondering why it mattered how loot was distributed.  I was just wondering if there was any particular reason you prefered one system to the other.  Even if you have no reason, fair enough, so people prefer a particular method over another just because.  I was just curious, sorry if I sounded hostile, its just sometimes people against it seem to be elitists whose only reason is to keep gear to themselves.  As for your question if random chance is superior, I see getting anything better than the possibility of going through 3 raids getting absololutly nothing as an improvement, even if people might get frustrated with getting the consluation prize over epic loot after several runs.  But again, thats just my opinon.  Also wow these quote replys are getting long lol.

Since you are curious, I highlighted my reason for prefering master looter over random chance in my above post. I didn't think you were being hostile. Your question was valid, and after further deliberation, I think you are right. For me, this mechanic is another step toward completely desocializing a genre that was built and based upon social interaction, whether or not it was always pleasant. As you said, it is just a preference.

 While I agree that getting rid of social interations is a bad thing, I think that it could be done in other areas.  Perhaps finding a way to make use of Cantinas to gain some sort of benefit while loged in to encorage interaction, or not having a looking for group system, or at least limit it to the server so you cant act like a total tool.

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3566

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

8/06/11 8:44:13 AM#231
Originally posted by Kendane
Originally posted by Palebane
Originally posted by Kendane
Originally posted by Palebane
Originally posted by Kendane
Originally posted by Palebane

 Perhaps the irony of this is that many players look up to those elite players with their shiny epics. And well, if they can't get them too, the game is unfair. In comes loot containers for all.

 

Yes, I know, the loot containers will curb ninja looters and corrupt loot distributuion; things that used to be dealt with by the players. I am happy that players will not get screwed over as much, but disappointed we've come to the point where we let the game mechanics dictate or depricate the social order we, as players, used to have control of. That was one of the aspects of these games that I actually enjoyed.

 And I'm asking how someone kill a boss and loot being decided by random chance is any different than the mob droping loot on its body by random chance, aside from everyone getting a consulation prize, and maybe a piece of epic loot.  Why does it matter how loot is distributed, why is someone handing out loot through a master loot system superior to random chance?  Who cares if someone gets their loot faster than someone else?  Generally in the raids I've been in even if someone has all the best gear, they go back to either help the guild, have fun, or both.  The way it worked in my WoW guild was you were on a list, you bid on an item, if you won it, you dropped to the bottom of the list, and could only move up if you were at a raid.  But this works out on any schdual, instead of some people intially having an advantage over someone else because they have more free time, or their free time warrents itself to raiding better than someone else.  If a hardcore raider can go on more raids, hes still going to get all his gear faster than someone who can only come half the time in most cases, and if the person that comes half the time gets lucky and gears up first, who cares?  That still means that when that person attends raids everyone will benefit from the increased damage.  Also theres less feeling discouraged because you got nothing, since sure you get a measly token, but at least its working towards something.

 It doesn't matter. Master looter is not superior to random chance. I cannot argue with your logic. As a bit of an underachiever, I really don't understand why players have to have the best gear in the first place. Is random chance superior to master looter in this regard?

 Look, I don't particularly care about having the best loot in the game either, that kind of stuff doesn't matter to me.  I was just wondering why it mattered how loot was distributed.  I was just wondering if there was any particular reason you prefered one system to the other.  Even if you have no reason, fair enough, so people prefer a particular method over another just because.  I was just curious, sorry if I sounded hostile, its just sometimes people against it seem to be elitists whose only reason is to keep gear to themselves.  As for your question if random chance is superior, I see getting anything better than the possibility of going through 3 raids getting absololutly nothing as an improvement, even if people might get frustrated with getting the consluation prize over epic loot after several runs.  But again, thats just my opinon.  Also wow these quote replys are getting long lol.

Since you are curious, I highlighted my reason for prefering master looter over random chance in my above post. I didn't think you were being hostile. Your question was valid, and after further deliberation, I think you are right. For me, this mechanic is another step toward completely desocializing a genre that was built and based upon social interaction, whether or not it was always pleasant. As you said, it is just a preference.

 While I agree that getting rid of social interations is a bad thing, I think that it could be done in other areas.  Perhaps finding a way to make use of Cantinas to gain some sort of benefit while loged in to encorage interaction, or not having a looking for group system, or at least limit it to the server so you cant act like a total tool.

 

Well... "Social interaction" isn't what it once was... At this point on the down slope, I see no reason what so ever for dealing with around 98% plus of the gaming population. Make that 99% plus of the general population... ^^  Designing games that rely on "social interaction" is setting ones game up to either fail, and/or become a haven for trolls and griefers. 

Unless one is an ideologue, one deals with reality as it exists, rather than as one might wish it to be.  The reality is that WAY too many people these days have a distinct lack of civility, coupled with an entitlement complex the size of all out doors. Add in a near total lack of critical thinking, and thoughtfullness, and one has the general population, of which the gaming population is a sub set. 

One of the ways that something like WoW's Dungeon Finder could be more useful, is to link it to ignore lists at *account* level.  That way, if someone is a total nit wit, you just /ignore them, and the system excludes them from any future matches with you.  Designing systems to deal with ones target audience (and their traits) makes good sense, from both a functionality perspective, as well as business wise. 

  Loginname

Novice Member

Joined: 3/31/11
Posts: 5

8/06/11 11:23:59 AM#232

I love the idea. It was terrible to run a raid over and over for a low percentage drop rate item. Only to lose the roll a few times to someone else. With the medalions you are working toward it each run.


  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2180

First came pride, then envy.

8/07/11 2:17:12 PM#233

The expectation of loot is one of the major problems with MMOs.  The loot system for time spent is an old paradigm with both negative and positive elements.  If only we could shift away from a loot system and progress this genre forward.


  xpiher

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3301

8/08/11 10:12:42 AM#234

Its a good way to do things. Still doesn't make the game good enough to buy and not that much different than tokens and is still the same old, so it seems, gear grind hamester wheel. 


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher

  Palebane

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/04
Posts: 3247

8/08/11 11:07:09 AM#235
Originally posted by Wraithone

 

 Well... "Social interaction" isn't what it once was... At this point on the down slope, I see no reason what so ever for dealing with around 98% plus of the gaming population. Make that 99% plus of the general population... ^^  Designing games that rely on "social interaction" is setting ones game up to either fail, and/or become a haven for trolls and griefers. 

Unless one is an ideologue, one deals with reality as it exists, rather than as one might wish it to be.  The reality is that WAY too many people these days have a distinct lack of civility, coupled with an entitlement complex the size of all out doors. Add in a near total lack of critical thinking, and thoughtfullness, and one has the general population, of which the gaming population is a sub set. 

One of the ways that something like WoW's Dungeon Finder could be more useful, is to link it to ignore lists at *account* level.  That way, if someone is a total nit wit, you just /ignore them, and the system excludes them from any future matches with you.  Designing systems to deal with ones target audience (and their traits) makes good sense, from both a functionality perspective, as well as business wise. 

 While I agree with most of what you say, dealing with reality as it exists only works if one is not complacent about it. Ignoring the problem only serves to make it worse in many cases. There is no reason not to strive for more, save laziness or apathy. Why couldn't there be revolutionary game mechanics that cause players to want to work together and to help and care about one another? Perhaps online communities could eventually go a long way toward fixing the problems you speak of, not only in video games, but within humanity as a whole. I know its a huge stretch, but nothing is impossible.

Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  Puremallace

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/11
Posts: 1929

8/08/11 11:10:45 AM#236
Originally posted by MikeB

Notice how the term is in quotes in the headline? And how I feel positively about the system while trying to reassure the 'welfare epics' crowd that everything will be alright? Oh right, you didn't read the article. ;)

lol talk about proving people do not actually read threads. How was this comedy gold skipped over with no comments? This is too funny and pure ownage.

  Rinna

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/04
Posts: 387

8/08/11 9:06:07 PM#237

I like the idea of individual loot bags a LOT.  The hardcores will still gear up faster and still see content that I'll never unlock or see, i'm sure.  


No bitchers.

  User Deleted
8/08/11 9:11:05 PM#238
Originally posted by Puremallace
Originally posted by MikeB

Notice how the term is in quotes in the headline? And how I feel positively about the system while trying to reassure the 'welfare epics' crowd that everything will be alright? Oh right, you didn't read the article. ;)

lol talk about proving people do not actually read threads. How was this comedy gold skipped over with no comments? This is too funny and pure ownage.

 It would be funny on just about any other forum. Sadly its much to common here.

 

Seems like the majority support this design decision around here.  Loot drama is the worst kind.

  Nifa

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 327

You can get more with a kind word & a 2x4 than you can with just a kind word

8/08/11 10:03:24 PM#239
Originally posted by MikeB
Originally posted by Nifa

 

Originally posted by MikeB

MMORPG.com Community Manager Michael Bitton discusses the recent revelations regarding Star Wars: The Old Republic's Operation loot distribution in this week's The Old Republic column.




Last week, we reported on a story that shed some light on BioWare’s current approach to loot distribution in Operations. Differing somewhat from other games on the market, BioWare’s approach involves granting all players an individual loot container at the end of a key Operation encounter. These containers will offer a chance at class-specific gear. Even in the absence of desired loot, the containers will, at the very least, contain commendations that can be traded for class-specific loot at appropriate vendors. Think Warhammer Online’s ‘PQ Bags,’ though there is no word on whether there will be different quality containers based on contribution level.


Read more of Michael Bitton's Star Wars: The Old Republic: 'Welfare Epics'.


 

 

Wow, Michael. Your word choice was so poor, I couldn't be bothered to read your article. Could you possibly come across as any more of an ass? If you play this game, I hope to God you aren't on my server - alternately, I hope I know your toon name, so I can instantly ignore you. People who use terms like 'welfare epic' are the type of people who gained WoW the dubious (and true) reputation of having the worst community in gaming. You'd think an industry writer would know better.

Notice how the term is in quotes in the headline? And how I feel positively about the system while trying to reassure the 'welfare epics' crowd that everything will be alright? Oh right, you didn't read the article. ;)

You're right, I didn't. I might... later.

Fact is, the elitist jackasses that tend to have the point of view the terminology indicates find their way onto my ignore list very quickly anymore. I'm too old to tolerate the stupidity anymore (hence my canceled WoW account).

/my lawn. Get off. ;)

Firebrand Art

"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman

Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr

  Palebane

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/04
Posts: 3247

8/09/11 1:07:34 AM#240
Originally posted by Nifa

Fact is, the elitist jackasses that tend to have the point of view the terminology indicates find their way onto my ignore list very quickly anymore.

 So you are too elite for the elitist jackasses? Ironic.

Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

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