Originally posted by Aethaeryn

Originally posted by fionanshrek

Originally posted by CasualMaker

Originally posted by someforumguy

SWG was riddled with bugs and offered barely content and a skillsystem that looked nice on paper but funneled all players into a few cookiecutter choices.

For this statement to be true, then "all players" must have been interested primarily in combat, and PvP combat at that. As I know this was not the case, your statement fails.

 Why would all players have to be interested primarily in combat for this statement to be true.  The game at launch was riddled with bugs many of which lasted until and beyond the NGE.

Now the skill system comment I can't agree with I thought the original class system had something for everyone and can't remember seeing any class as dominant.

I played a droid engineer with a bit of exploration and blaster skills.  I loved it.  No cookie cutter for me.  I also had some medical thrown in I believe.  Also you could change it :)

 I stated that part you may have a point on but if anything his statement was atleast a half truth because the game was riddled with bugs and it in fact did lack quality content.

Originally posted by fionanshrek

Originally posted by Aethaeryn

Originally posted by fionanshrek

Originally posted by CasualMaker

Originally posted by someforumguy

SWG was riddled with bugs and offered barely content and a skillsystem that looked nice on paper but funneled all players into a few cookiecutter choices.

For this statement to be true, then "all players" must have been interested primarily in combat, and PvP combat at that. As I know this was not the case, your statement fails.

 Why would all players have to be interested primarily in combat for this statement to be true.  The game at launch was riddled with bugs many of which lasted until and beyond the NGE.

Now the skill system comment I can't agree with I thought the original class system had something for everyone and can't remember seeing any class as dominant.

I played a droid engineer with a bit of exploration and blaster skills.  I loved it.  No cookie cutter for me.  I also had some medical thrown in I believe.  Also you could change it :)

 I stated that part you may have a point on but if anything his statement was atleast a half truth because the game was riddled with bugs and it in fact did lack quality content.

Very true. . in fact the droid engineer tree, abilities etc. was never finshed from what I recall.

Why would someone make a false claim to having played SWG pre-NGE? Simple: Nerd cred. "I played pre-NGE SWG" or "I played pre-Trammel UO" or "I played pre-[whatever]" EQ. There's a certain e-peen factor to having gotten in on the ground floor of a pivotal MMO. Same thing with Woodstock, it was a pivotal event in a time and place that a lot of people would like to think they were a part of, even if they actually weren't (to be fair though, far more people played SWG than attended Woodstock).

Don't tell me you haven't seen people write stuff like this all around MMORPG.com: "I was playing back in closed beta, and...." That's essentially claiming ultimate seniority in the game as far as how long one has been around.

It's not a big deal, it's a video game after all.

Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

Why would someone make a false claim to having played SWG pre-NGE? Simple: Nerd cred. "I played pre-NGE SWG" or "I played pre-Trammel UO" or "I played pre-[whatever]" EQ. There's a certain e-peen factor to having gotten in on the ground floor of a pivotal MMO. Same thing with Woodstock, it was a pivotal event in a time and place that a lot of people would like to think they were a part of, even if they actually weren't (to be fair though, far more people played SWG than attended Woodstock).

 

Don't tell me you haven't seen people write stuff like this all around MMORPG.com: "I was playing back in closed beta, and...." That's essentially claiming ultimate seniority in the game as far as how long one has been around.

 

It's not a big deal, it's a video game after all.

 The only problem is I don't know of one single person proven to have lied about playing pre NGE SWG.  In many cases to even make that statement you have to know something  that the average gamer wouldn't know.

Don't take the yellow pills. Stay away from the yellow pills...

Just the other day, a girl I was interested in straight lied to my face about it. I told her it was over after that. How can I trust someone that lies about having played pre-NGE SWG? I can't. And I won't.

YOU WEREN'T THERE. Get over it. You aren't as cool as the people that played pre-NGE SWG. You never will be. Stop lying to us about it.

Originally posted by fionanshrek

 The only problem is I don't know of one single person proven to have lied about playing pre NGE SWG.  In many cases to even make that statement you have to know something  that the average gamer wouldn't know.

If I've learned anything in my time playing MMOs, it's that if people can make a false claim for the purpose of enhancing their e-peen and get away with it, more than a few people will do so. The average gamer certainly doesn't know what pre-NGE means, but people who post regularly on MMORPG.com typically know a whole lot more about the genre than the average MMO player.

It's difficult or even impossible to prove someone wasn't at Woodstock, too, but 450,000 people attended in 1969. Over forty years later, half or more of those people have died due to accident, misadventure, illness, or natural causes. Yet FAR more than 200,000 people claim to have attended — that's how statisticians know that hundreds of thousands of people who claim to have attended Woodstock actually didn't.

Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

Originally posted by fionanshrek

 The only problem is I don't know of one single person proven to have lied about playing pre NGE SWG.  In many cases to even make that statement you have to know something  that the average gamer wouldn't know.

 

If I've learned anything in my time playing MMOs, it's that if people can make a false claim for the purpose of enhancing their e-peen and get away with it, more than a few people will do so. The average gamer certainly doesn't know what pre-NGE means, but people who post regularly on MMORPG.com typically know a whole lot more about the genre than the average MMO player.

 

It's difficult or even impossible to prove someone wasn't at Woodstock, too, but 450,000 people attended in 1969. Over forty years later, half or more of those people have died due to accident, misadventure, illness, or natural causes. Yet FAR more than 200,000 people claim to have attended — that's how statisticians know that hundreds of thousands of people who claim to have attended Woodstock actually didn't.

 I frequent this site and truth be told it's full of acronyms for things,  and if you aren't familiar with the product you simply see a bunch of letters (atleast I do) could a person literally retype I played pre NGE SWG sure but then you run the risk of being called to task for it or being asked something you simply couldn't know the answer to.

I wouldn't say no one has ever lied about it more than likely some have but surely not near the numbers of people who may lie about attending woodstock.

The problem here is there are far more people who don't view SWG as symbolically representative of games/mmo's as the number of people who view woodstock that way about a culture.

SWG was a first or second mmorpg for a number of people and that can always bring inflated feelings kind of like many peoples first car brings back fond memories even though it wasn't as nice as any you've had since.  From that people seem to equate that it was the best experience they had with it being the best experience everyone had and I've read far too many comments that suggest otherwise. 

The funniest thing is that I started with the earliest. . alpha beta etc. and there were always people that came along after me that blew me away with what they knew about the game.  I played for fun.  I never tried to get a Jedi, I never got "gold pants" in The Realm, I killed a few people in Meridian but I don't even know what the cool thing would be.  I was into computers and liked the idea of testing games.  MMOs sounded super cool and Ultima IV was the best game ever so I also beta tested Ultima Onilne.

The best part is that I beta tested EQ, didn't like it and never played it again.  I know next to nothing about almost every game I ever played.  Now I am playing Vanguard and have to ask people where I should spend attribute points etc. . and guess what. . I beta tested that one as well.

The only thing any of that is worth is that it gives me a good general idea of what has been done and how things have changed.  I can give decent feedback in a new beta having been through so many.  The days of having input are somewhat gone though.  Most of the mechanics and design decisions are made early and are often irreversible by the time we get a crack at most games today.

*Here is one thing though. . I actually found SWG was the most fun about 2-3 weeks before release.  I remember people (myself included) on the forums saying that the game was far from ready and had made giant steps backward in the few weeks leading up to release.  I honestly think that the "best" time of SWG was not pre-cu. . but pre-release. . how sad is that.*

Originally posted by fionanshrek

Originally posted by CasualMaker

Originally posted by someforumguy

SWG was riddled with bugs and offered barely content and a skillsystem that looked nice on paper but funneled all players into a few cookiecutter choices.

For this statement to be true, then "all players" must have been interested primarily in combat, and PvP combat at that. As I know this was not the case, your statement fails.

 Why would all players have to be interested primarily in combat for this statement to be true.  The game at launch was riddled with bugs many of which lasted until and beyond the NGE.

Now the skill system comment I can't agree with I thought the original class system had something for everyone and can't remember seeing any class as dominant.

In regards to the threads topic though for this player maybe the NGE was like woodstock but meh I don't know if SWG deserves that high of a perch because for many people it was just another game that was riddled with bugs and a lack of quality content.

Many people have lasting memories from woodstock for reasons other than "it was their first concert".  Lots of people are hung up on SWG because for many it was the first time they played a game like that.

I expressed myself poorly. I had no quarrel with the part of the statment that SWG was buggy and lacked content. What set me off was the endlessly repeated canard that "everyone" in pre-CU was one of a handful of FOTM PvP templates. It is so utterly absurd to anyone who enjoyed that era's diversity that it has become a hot-button for me.

Originally posted by hyllstarter

Well I remember having to walk to your dead body to get your stuff after dying.

We have a winner!

Corpse Runs Stunk worse than 5 day old Bantha Poodu.

Originally posted by hipiap

Originally posted by hyllstarter

Well I remember having to walk to your dead body to get your stuff after dying.

We have a winner!

Corpse Runs Stunk worse than 5 day old Bantha Poodu.

 It was no different than EQ in the early days. I was once part of a pick up Hate Plane raid that wiped, and we literly spent all night waiting to get our bods back. Or a couple of low lvls falling down to the 3rd floor in Befallen. If you didnt have several friends, or a high lvl friend, you werent getting your stuff back.

I sure dont miss the early days of MMO gaming in that regard.

For those saying "I was around for Pre-CU"....I was a MMO gamer before SWG. If you kept up with the news, then you understood SWG was a buggy POS before launch. When the NDA broke just bevfore launch, the feedback on SWg was really ugly. Thus it would of taken an idiot to actually purchase.

With years to come it will even become more epic to have been part of it.

(because i don't see that golden age of MMORPG's ever repeating)

Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

...because there are almost certainly lots of people saying they played during that time period who actually didn't.

lol agreed.

I have always said that if everyone who bitches about the NGE had actually been playing the game they would never have had to action the NGE in the first place.

I think sometimes folks forget exactly why they did that. It wasnt because the game had a ton of subs and was doing amazingly, lets be honest.

Originally posted by Squal'Zell

the best way to weed out the liars is to ask them what happens after you had permadeath

true pre-cu players know the real answer

Get disconnected from the game? Oh wait, that's why I died in the first place...

I have like a 100 screenshots from the first 5 months of that game, some crazy stuff...

Originally posted by vesavius

lol agreed.

I have always said that if everyone who bitches about the NGE had actually been playing the game they would never have had to action the NGE in the first place.

Sure they would have done NDG anyway: it was all about WOW-envy.

I think sometimes folks forget exactly why they did that. It wasnt because the game had a ton of subs and was doing amazingly, lets be honest.

By pre-WOW standards SWG had perfectly respectable subscriptions. But after an MMO went up like a missile (and it wasn't OURS!), LucasArts decided that "Something Must Be Done™".

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

...because there are almost certainly lots of people saying they played during that time period who actually didn't.

 

lol agreed.

I have always said that if everyone who bitches about the NGE had actually been playing the game they would never have had to action the NGE in the first place.

I think sometimes folks forget exactly why they did that. It wasnt because the game had a ton of subs and was doing amazingly, lets be honest.

 Maybe you are confusing number of comments bitching about it with number of people bitching about it, from where I sit casual Star Wars fans never cared for SWG anyway.......

Wow wtf with this thread? Who cares.

And let me add, walking to missions and other cities without vehicles and buffs sucked, sucked even more grinding bounty hunter and having the target spawn inside a tree or the waypoint take me to 0,0 and not spawn at all or the target remained white- and that's IF you survive the spawned mobs you walk by on the way. I guess I'd be saying the same as grandpa saying he walked 10 miles up and down hills in 30 inches of snow, that's how hard SWG was to play back then.

Originally posted by sookster54

Wow wtf with this thread? Who cares.

And let me add, walking to missions and other cities without vehicles and buffs sucked, sucked even more grinding bounty hunter and having the target spawn inside a tree or the waypoint take me to 0,0 and not spawn at all or the target remained white- and that's IF you survive the spawned mobs you walk by on the way. I guess I'd be saying the same as grandpa saying he walked 10 miles up and down hills in 30 inches of snow, that's how hard SWG was to play back then.

and then 2-3 years later you had instant travel, god mode buffs, no grind bounty hunter and bounties escaping in ITVs (not to mention NPC bounties still broken) AND that while killing everything in your path with... why couldnt this game stop mid way?

to easy is as bad as to hard...

Why would old people lie about being at Woodstock 69? I know a few of my parent's friends/coworkers that had been there. I'm actually glad I didn't go to Woodstock 94 and 99, they both had bad end results (overflowing toilets, rape/assaults, fights, etc).

I very well have played pre-NGE, I even played late beta stage (also beta PlanetSide), and could list lots of things about pre-NGE and pre-CU and pre-9 and pre-Jedi eras.