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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » If this game fails, so does the MMORPG Genre. This is our last hope.

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467 posts found
  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

8/06/11 8:29:18 PM#361
Originally posted by Meowhead
Originally posted by Divion

 

Star Wars following a quanitifable time-line.. the stores take place according to that time line...

Actually, George Lucas himself has said that pretty much it's just the movies that are canon, and everything else is various shades of grey after that.

I have a whole bunch of REALLY old (80s?) Star Wars comics, that basically don't fit in at all.

I have an official Star Wars book where Luke and Leia totally make out and in retrospect (Since further details were released) it's kind of very creepy.

The many games of Star Wars often fit only loosely into canon, or are alternate retellings.  They may use IP characters, but in ways that only vaguely fit.

There's a lot of people out there who pretty much agree that the first three movies are Star Wars, the second trilogy is Kinda' Star Wars, and it's all down hill from there. :)  The hazards of having approximately 800 writers.  (Possibly an exaggeration)

That's why the canon on something like Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion is so much tidier and prettier.  Single author goes a long way towards making things clear.

It's also what I consider to be one of the huge advantages of mainstream Japanese comics over mainstream US comics, the fact that continunity in a small contained series works SO much better.  :/

That's the main point I wanted to deal with, but on a side note (Which should be the main note, because it's the topic), sometimes companies come out of nowhere and revitalize an industry, or toss a whole new spin on a genre.

Look at Valve and Half Life.  Whoever heard of those Valve guys before Half Life?

I actually think it's a fallacy that 'big budget' = 'quality'.  It helps, certainly, but as creation tools become better, and depending upon the type of gameplay you do, I think it's perfectly possible for somebody to come up with an MMORPG design that ends up taking the world by storm, while simultaneously costing less.  If your question is 'well, what type of MMORPG gameplay will be much better and cost much less', well... that just shows you aren't a cutting edge visionary game designer.  (If it makes you feel better, neither am I)

... and just a look at AAA games like Aion and Rifts (Both of them made ridiculous amounts of profit) shows big companies that they can still make money.  I guess it depends upon how you define 'fail'.  My main problem with your original argument is that you seemed to define fail as 'not matching up to WoW'.  I think SW:ToR could do considerably less well than WoW and still be considered a rousing, ridiculously profitable success in my eyes, and in the eyes of investors who want to see how to make crazy amounts of cash monies.  (Oddly enough, being a quarter as successful as WoW, even on SW:ToR's budget, would be crazy amounts of money and a huge return on investment)

I totally agree with you that big budget != quality.

In fact it seems that nowadays big budget often means an extremely polished safe bet.

For example, almost all of the big budget MMORPGs released in recent years have been pretty polished, but basically stayed with "tried and true" MMORPG mechanics instead of trying to innovate or deviate from the norm.  I mean, it makes sense why they do it, because they look at the market and see that these mechanics make money, but it is frustrating that there isn't more innovation in many big budget games.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  AKASlaphappy

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/06
Posts: 812

8/06/11 8:57:04 PM#362
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

I think that D&D alone has been the godfather of the fantasy RPG genre since the earliest games, with some of its biggest representatives the Baldur's Gate series.

Sorry I know this is off topic, but I found this funny and could not resist posting.
 
Now days I have read more than one time that D&D is the godfather of the fantasy RPG. The funny thing is if you read what the developers say when creating the first of the D&D worlds, they got a lot of inspiration and ideas from J. R. R. Tolkien (and give him a lot of credit for helping them develop the many worlds of D&D). So then shouldn’t Tolkien be the godfather of the fantasy RPG?
 
But then it gets even more interesting because if you read notes from Tolkien he says he got a lot of inspiration from Greek mythology, Norse mythology, and the bible. So then shouldn’t Greek mythology, Norse mythology, and the bible be the godfather of the fantasy genre.
 
While we are on the subject of star wars Lucas talks about his love for shows like Buck Rogers, and how it lead to the idea of creating a space opera for the big screen.
 
Why I find these funny is that when it comes down to it, no one can come up with an original thought that has not been said by some dude in 3 AD.  It kind of makes the whole clone, or the who got inspiration from what argument kind of silly.  
 
 
On Topic: I do not believe if Star Wars fails it will be the end of MMOs. It will mean the end of Bioware making MMOs, but there are still a lot of companies even now without Bioware’s success investing money in the market.
  Benthon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/07
Posts: 2132

Even if you can't hear me, you're still wrong.

8/06/11 8:58:49 PM#363

@ The title. I disagree completely. Maybe the "WoW" formula dies, but there would be much rejoicing at that.

He who keeps his cool best wins.

  Benthon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/07
Posts: 2132

Even if you can't hear me, you're still wrong.

8/06/11 9:00:15 PM#364
Originally posted by AKASlaphappy
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

I think that D&D alone has been the godfather of the fantasy RPG genre since the earliest games, with some of its biggest representatives the Baldur's Gate series.

Sorry I know this is off topic, but I found this funny and could not resist posting.
 
Now days I have read more than one time that D&D is the godfather of the fantasy RPG. The funny thing is if you read what the developers say when creating the first of the D&D worlds, they got a lot of inspiration and ideas from J. R. R. Tolkien (and give him a lot of credit for helping them develop the many worlds of D&D). So then shouldn’t Tolkien be the godfather of the fantasy RPG?
 
But then it gets even more interesting because if you read notes from Tolkien he says he got a lot of inspiration from Greek mythology, Norse mythology, and the bible. So then shouldn’t Greek mythology, Norse mythology, and the bible be the godfather of the fantasy genre.
 
While we are on the subject of star wars Lucas talks about his love for shows like Buck Rogers, and how it lead to the idea of creating a space opera for the big screen.
 
Why I find these funny is that when it comes down to it, no one can come up with an original thought that has not been said by some dude in 3 AD.  It kind of makes the whole clone, or the who got inspiration from what argument kind of silly.  
 
 
On Topic: I do not believe if Star Wars fails it will be the end of MMOs. It will mean the end of Bioware making MMOs, but there are still a lot of companies even now without Bioware’s success investing money in the market.

 So, in retrospect, some Jesus guy is one of the masterminds behind fantasy.

Holy waffles.

He who keeps his cool best wins.

  Derebus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/11
Posts: 54

8/07/11 5:08:53 AM#365

I don't see how much interesting it gets. Without doubt, Tolkien created the fantasy RPG settings. Everbody and everything comes from inspirations, but it was he that had it, so it's his credit.

Anywhore, I don't see how this is on topic, lol.

Future: WoD, SWTOR, Arche Age, Tera (maybe), GW2.
Present: None.
Past: Eve, RIFT, UO, bunch of F2P crap.

  Smoey

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/25/05
Posts: 551

8/07/11 5:12:17 AM#366

From what I've seen so far if this game does fail... oh well. The genre does not rest on the shoulders of one game.

(\ /) ?
( . .)
c('')('')

  Chilliesauce

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/27/10
Posts: 577

8/07/11 5:18:04 AM#367
Originally posted by Benthon

@ The title. I disagree completely. Maybe the "WoW" formula dies, but there would be much rejoicing at that.

You mean rejoicing at mmorpg.com? ;) because i highly doubt that gamers in general who never even visit gaming boards could care less if WOW formula dies or lives as long as they are having fun with what they are playing.

  Meowhead

Tipster

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 3728

8/07/11 8:52:45 AM#368
Originally posted by Derebus

I don't see how much interesting it gets. Without doubt, Tolkien created the fantasy RPG settings. Everbody and everything comes from inspirations, but it was he that had it, so it's his credit.

Anywhore, I don't see how this is on topic, lol.

That's the kind of thing somebody says if they haven't read enough books. D:

Conan, for example, predates Tolkien's books.

The Worm Ouroboros also predates Tolkien's books, and is high fantasy, rather than low fantasy (Like Conan).  It has elements of it in D&D.

D&D owes as much to Jack Vance and The Dying Earth as it does to Tolkien.  Even though Jack Vance comes after Tolkien, he has a very different sort of setting.

There are many other authors, like Fritz Leiber who D&D can be seen to have pulled from.

D&D also pulls a lot from various mythologies.  Which, in fact, is largely where Tolkien pulled from.

You could make a case that Tolkien pretty much pioneered the modern high fantasy epic, but he certainly didn't invent fantasy RPG settings singlehandedly.  They're a hodgepodge of several different sources, of which Tolkien is only one.

  syntax42

Elite Member

Joined: 3/30/07
Posts: 1145

8/07/11 8:57:04 AM#369
Originally posted by Chilliesauce
Originally posted by Benthon

@ The title. I disagree completely. Maybe the "WoW" formula dies, but there would be much rejoicing at that.

You mean rejoicing at mmorpg.com? ;) because i highly doubt that gamers in general who never even visit gaming boards could care less if WOW formula dies or lives as long as they are having fun with what they are playing.

Players looking forward to new games would be rejoicing as the industry realizes it has to evolve instead of following the same formula.  If SWTOR were to fail, articles would be in practially all media outlets.  Chances are, if you're a gamer, you look at a minimum of one media form, even if it is only PlayStation Magazine.  If you're a MMORPG player, you would rejoice at the prospects of the industry changing instead of pushing the same things at us for years.

  MMO.Maverick

Inquisitor

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 7792

The middle road is the place to be!

8/07/11 8:58:42 AM#370
Originally posted by AKASlaphappy
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

I think that D&D alone has been the godfather of the fantasy RPG genre since the earliest games, with some of its biggest representatives the Baldur's Gate series.

Sorry I know this is off topic, but I found this funny and could not resist posting.
 
Now days I have read more than one time that D&D is the godfather of the fantasy RPG. The funny thing is if you read what the developers say when creating the first of the D&D worlds, they got a lot of inspiration and ideas from J. R. R. Tolkien (and give him a lot of credit for helping them develop the many worlds of D&D). So then shouldn’t Tolkien be the godfather of the fantasy RPG?
 
On Topic: I do not believe if Star Wars fails it will be the end of MMOs. It will mean the end of Bioware making MMOs, but there are still a lot of companies even now without Bioware’s success investing money in the market.

Of course D&D borrowed a lot of ideas and inspiration from Tolkien's works, everybody knows that , but we were talking IP's here and the games that were made with that IP.

While since the '80s there have been quite a number of games that took place in Middle Earth, there have been even more that happened in the D&D universe.

The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  Chilliesauce

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/27/10
Posts: 577

8/07/11 9:02:09 AM#371
Originally posted by syntax42
Originally posted by Chilliesauce
Originally posted by Benthon

@ The title. I disagree completely. Maybe the "WoW" formula dies, but there would be much rejoicing at that.

You mean rejoicing at mmorpg.com? ;) because i highly doubt that gamers in general who never even visit gaming boards could care less if WOW formula dies or lives as long as they are having fun with what they are playing.

Players looking forward to new games would be rejoicing as the industry realizes it has to evolve instead of following the same formula.  If SWTOR were to fail, articles would be in practially all media outlets.  Chances are, if you're a gamer, you look at a minimum of one media form, even if it is only PlayStation Magazine.  If you're a MMORPG player, you would rejoice at the prospects of the industry changing instead of pushing the same things at us for years.

And yet we don't know if these so called players are really unhappy with current crop of games? are they really looking for this 'evolution'? too many assumptions and guesses are thrown around here.  Using website like mmorpg.com which makes a very little percentage of gamers worldwide  as a bases for this much needed evolution is illogical. 

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5266

8/07/11 9:09:02 AM#372
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
Originally posted by AKASlaphappy
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

I think that D&D alone has been the godfather of the fantasy RPG genre since the earliest games, with some of its biggest representatives the Baldur's Gate series.

Sorry I know this is off topic, but I found this funny and could not resist posting.
 
Now days I have read more than one time that D&D is the godfather of the fantasy RPG. The funny thing is if you read what the developers say when creating the first of the D&D worlds, they got a lot of inspiration and ideas from J. R. R. Tolkien (and give him a lot of credit for helping them develop the many worlds of D&D). So then shouldn’t Tolkien be the godfather of the fantasy RPG?
 
On Topic: I do not believe if Star Wars fails it will be the end of MMOs. It will mean the end of Bioware making MMOs, but there are still a lot of companies even now without Bioware’s success investing money in the market.

Of course D&D borrowed a lot of ideas and inspiration from Tolkien's works, everybody knows that , but we were talking IP's here and the games that were made with that IP.

While since the '80s there have been quite a number of games that took place in Middle Earth, there have been even more that happened in the D&D universe.

If SW;TOR fails.. it might even be the push that Bioware needs to turn themselves around, lately their games have been somewhat substandard, Dragon Age 2  was probably one of their worst ever games, even Mass Effect, seems to be on a downward spiral, Mass Effect 1 was .. imo.. a great game,  Mass Effect 2, was fairly good, but lacked a lot of things that made Mass Effect 1 great... i can only hope that Mass Effect 3, doesnt suffer the same degree of degredation... always in the past, i've bought Bioware games,  Dragon Age 2 was the first one, that i avoided.. i hope.. that SW;TOR will be the last one i avoid buying.. so.. i am hoping in a way that SW;TOR fails.. as it might end up reviving the company..

  MMO.Maverick

Inquisitor

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 7792

The middle road is the place to be!

8/07/11 9:11:39 AM#373

? What has your comment to do with my post that you quoted?

The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

8/07/11 9:19:50 AM#374

Can we please stop with the fanboy'ish style of posting?

 

 

If you don't choose my game; the industry is DOOMED.

 

 

Really?

  shadow9d9

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 365

8/07/11 12:45:39 PM#375

This game failing would be great for the genre.  It would force developers to stop copy and pasting wow 's combat/quest system into "new" games over and over and have different systems like Asheron's Call's and force some innovation.

  Chimps

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/07
Posts: 201

8/07/11 12:52:17 PM#376
Originally posted by shadow9d9

This game failing would be great for the genre.  It would force developers to stop copy and pasting wow 's combat/quest system into "new" games over and over and have different systems like Asheron's Call's and force some innovation.

Once again WoW did not invent point and click.

And you still got absolutely no clue what this game is like because you never played it.

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4146

Trolls will be ignored

8/07/11 12:53:14 PM#377
Tor's quest and combat system is nothing like World of Warcraft. Try again.

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  Alot

Novice Member

Joined: 1/04/11
Posts: 1984

Minister of Propaganda for GW2 Fascist-Capitalist Party

8/07/11 12:54:18 PM#378
Originally posted by ktanner3
Tor's quest and combat system is nothing like World of Warcraft. Try again.

Now that's a bit of an overstatement.

  NeVeRLiFt

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 377

8/07/11 12:57:07 PM#379

SW:ToR is not the last hope... it lacks a lot things actually.

 

ArcheAge is the last hope and one all the money will be riding on, with GW2 and TSW cleaning up the rest.

 

 

edit:

after everyone has read the book a couple times in ToR and made up their mind to run the treadmill getting gear as the only end-game content.... well you either chase the carrot like you did in WoW or move on to an mmo that offers a real end-game

Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW
Playing: Sims 3, TSW & LoTRO
Waiting on: Everquest Next, ArcheAge, Wildstar & WoD!
Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?

  qombi

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 1187

8/07/11 12:57:10 PM#380

I hope it does fail OR the MMORPG genre IS going to be crap. I read it's super casual garbage with the amount of content should be a single player game with a free multiplayer option online.

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