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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: 'Welfare Epics'

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284 posts found
  Draftbeer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/07/07
Posts: 516

„Why Are You Wearing that Stupid Man Suit?”

8/03/11 9:33:23 AM#21
Originally posted by xKingdomx

If the game isn't gear centric, but story centric, why is 'welfare epics' come into the picture? You aren't suppose to grind for gear in a story centric MMORPG.

This.

  tiapheres

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/09
Posts: 74

8/03/11 9:50:08 AM#22

So what happens when something drops for someone else of the same class and build but he already has that piece and you need it? Traditional looting gives that option of getting the gear to the people who need it rather than it getting bound to someone who is going to vendor or break it down.


I like the idea, I just don't see it being practical unless you can trade your loot with the raid in case you get something someone else can use more.


Fatetaker Voidwalker
Linkshell founder of Shi Ryu of Aegis & Figaro
Leader of the Bad Wolves Multi Game Community

  tiapheres

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/09
Posts: 74

8/03/11 9:51:56 AM#23

Originally posted by Draftbeer


Originally posted by xKingdomx

If the game isn't gear centric, but story centric, why is 'welfare epics' come into the picture? You aren't suppose to grind for gear in a story centric MMORPG.



This.



 


 I agree, lets wait and see.


Fatetaker Voidwalker
Linkshell founder of Shi Ryu of Aegis & Figaro
Leader of the Bad Wolves Multi Game Community

  User Deleted
8/03/11 10:00:29 AM#24
Originally posted by Draftbeer
Originally posted by xKingdomx

If the game isn't gear centric, but story centric, why is 'welfare epics' come into the picture? You aren't suppose to grind for gear in a story centric MMORPG.

This.

 Gear is sorta irrelevant from my understanding of it, most of your stats come from modifactions to your gear, although better quality gear has more modification slots.

  Theodgrim

Novice Member

Joined: 9/17/06
Posts: 548

8/03/11 10:11:53 AM#25

'Welfare' Epic?  'Douchebag' terminology.

  helthros

Novice Member

Joined: 10/24/09
Posts: 1477

8/03/11 10:12:22 AM#26
Originally posted by xKingdomx

If the game isn't gear centric, but story centric, why is 'welfare epics' come into the picture? You aren't suppose to grind for gear in a story centric MMORPG.

lol, love these. Oh yah, because you wrote the guidebook on story centric MMORPGs?

  User Deleted
8/03/11 10:14:46 AM#27

Its tough to have an opinion on this since the details on how you can modify gear, what modifies the gear, how to obtain such mods etc, has not been released.

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

8/03/11 10:15:45 AM#28

The objections stated to this system in the article are really thin:

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  Raventree

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 457

It is a double pleasure to gank the ganker.
-Raven Treeavelli

8/03/11 10:18:58 AM#29

I think this idea sounds fantastic.  Anything that will lessen the loot drama and prevent players from trying to ninja items that shouldn't go to them is a plus in my book.

And for the record, the type of players who throw around the "welfare epics" comments are usually the hardcore raiding snobs who think that anyone who can't spend all day raiding shouldn't have anything decent.  As pathetic as those people are, I take comfort in knowing that the developers don't agree with them or there wouldn't be any "welfare epics" at all.  You can't alienate 3/4 of your player base so that the 1/4 with unlimited time get to feel like you have to do what they are doing or fail.  It isn't a good business model, since many of us would just leave once we realize we can't advance without spending that much time stuck in a dungeon somewhere.

Currently playing:
Rift
Played:
SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
World of Warcraft, AoC

  fansede

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/03
Posts: 957

Pain is fear leaving the body..

8/03/11 10:21:58 AM#30

I think this is  a wise choice on bioware for the loot issue. Take the drama out of it and as long as if  gear dropped in my container  is something that I can't use is tradeable to others then I would deem this issue done . 

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3565

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

8/03/11 10:26:29 AM#31

 I'm tempted to be sarcastic... Given some of the 733t kiddie attitudes... But I'll restrain myself... ^^  The idea that every one in a raid/operation should get something is LONG over due.  I'm LONG past sick and tired of showing up time after time after time, on the faint chance of getting some upgrade.  In many guilds, unless you are part of the "in circle" you can forget about getting any chance of up grades.  This looks like a much better approach. 

  Azrile

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/08
Posts: 2615

8/03/11 10:35:33 AM#32

I think you are ´surprised´ that fan base is positive about this system the same way people are surprised at how successful WOW is.  These forums are the vast minority of players.   The unpopularity of WOW (and all things wow-like) here is just because people here are much more hardcore than most players.  Most players don´t even read their game forums, let alone go to a third party site to post.


WOW and SWTOR learned that players need to advance their characters and only random, and sometimes crazy RNG systems just do not work.   Players also don´t want to feel like they have to compete with the guildmaster´s girlfriends 3rd alt for loot.


The only people who use the term welfare gear are ones playing games with less than 100,000 players.


  Palebane

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/04
Posts: 3247

8/03/11 10:37:48 AM#33



Originally posted by tinuelle
I support any initiativ that is a counterweight to the "repetetive gear grind" endgame feature.


 
I agree, but I don't think this is going to make that much difference. It's not like you get to pick which loot is in your container. Token systems are just as bad as running the same dungeon hoping that an upgrade drops and you win the roll, in my opinion. The ideal solution would be to make the instances engaging enough to want to repeat them, without the lure of the right loot in your container. Perhaps there is a way to decrease the focus on loot somehow.
 

'Welfare' Epic? 'Douchebag' terminology.

Not when you have players AFKing or not pulling thier weight. There are a good chunk of players that expect something for nothing. I think this term fits them quite well.

Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  Paradigm68

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/24/11
Posts: 879

8/03/11 10:45:18 AM#34

I don't understand why its called 'welfare'. Its not a system to grant epics to people who don't run the raids right? It just keeps people from having to run the same raid over and over to wait for their chance/turn to receive the loot, which is the main thing that kept me from raiding in other games.  I like to do group instances but not the same instance over and over hoping each time It'll be the last.

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

8/03/11 10:48:49 AM#35

I really like this concept.  I think it is a great  idea in theory and hope that it works well inm practice.  It would be nice to have everyone feel they have a chance to obtain some items even those that donot have the opportunity to play as much due to their real life responsibilities or commitments.  Win/win for everyone long as they avoid a few pitfalls:

1. Major bugs or flaws with bags causing the loot tables to not give equal opportunities for players of all classes

2.  Bags and items in bags are instantly put into inventory and are bound to characters.  No sense in doing this if raids can still try and "lock out" access to good bags because they can have a master loot option or try and force you to give your "better bag" to another player.

3. No extremely easy access bags.  There needs to be something in place whether it is lockouts or other measures taken to ensure wiseasses won't try to push players to rush to first boss kill, get their bag, and then disband to get into another party to either repeat it in the same raid or go to other raid dungeons and do the same thing.

Long as they keep adding contant on a regualr basis I don't see a problem with this idea.  Really depends on how often they plan on doing content updates, conduct proper QA & customer feedback, and whteher the raids are actually entertaining to attempt as to whehter this will be ultimately successful or not.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  simmihi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/10
Posts: 514

8/03/11 10:49:19 AM#36
Originally posted by Palebane

 
I agree, but I don't think this is going to make that much difference. It's not like you get to pick which loot is in your container. Token systems are just as bad as running the same dungeon hoping that an upgrade drops and you win the roll, in my opinion. The ideal solution would be to make the instances engaging enough to want to repeat them, without the lure of the right loot in your container. Perhaps there is a way to decrease the focus on loot somehow.

 

I feel the same, and i think that The Secret World has a better approach on things, the focus being to unveil the story and to develop your character (something like 500 skillpoints, you can learn all of them and can specialize in any, with a skill system like Guild Wars, you have to chose a limited number of skills from a large list). There are of course gear differences but from what i've read, they are not game breaking. Chosing the right skills for the task and playing well come before gear.

  garry

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/05
Posts: 264

8/03/11 10:56:11 AM#37

Good job Bioware. To the elitist! You power your way thru the game, complaining about every one and everything. Get to 'endgame' and play around for a while, complaining about everyone and everything. Then quit and go on to the next game, complaining about the last game, its dumb down incompetant players, bad devs, rip off company, stupid WOW clone mechanics, graphics ad infinitum. Meanwhile millions of us say thanks for the money you did spend on our game and don't let the door hit you on the way out.


 


Don't think for a minute that the extreme majority of we 'lazy, dumb and incompetant' players are not happy about this announcement. I quit bothering to raid directly because of loot drama queens and guild 'officer' elitists. After several raids and the chat drama about loot I grew disgusted with trying to follow the guild rules that so many ignored. I continued to raid a while more and just clicked 'pass' in disgust. But the contention didn't end. I am sure that there are guilds out here that have minimized such problems but how do you know in advance? Go from guild to guild? There are hundreds of guilds for every major game, you just have to guess.


 


This will simplify the problem and few complaints will be forthcoming, except, of course, from the elitist who will still complain, not because they didn't get the 'epic', but because someone else not as 'good' got it. They will leave pretty soon anyway so now with SWTOR I may enjoy raiding again. So GOOD JOB Bioware!


  DarkPony

Steed of Tardcore

Joined: 8/29/08
Posts: 5637

Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.

8/03/11 10:56:30 AM#38

Originally posted by Paradigm68



I don't understand why its called 'welfare'. Its not a system to grant epics to people who don't run the raids right? It just keeps people from having to run the same raid over and over to wait for their chance/turn to receive the loot, which is the main thing that kept me from raiding in other games.  I like to do group instances but not the same instance over and over hoping each time It'll be the last.



 


I think because the commendation rewards are the guaranteed, base rewards. Probably rare dropped gear can be better. Not sure on this though. But I hope so.


  Palebane

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/04
Posts: 3247

8/03/11 11:00:36 AM#39
Originally posted by Paradigm68

I don't understand why its called 'welfare'. Its not a system to grant epics to people who don't run the raids right? It just keeps people from having to run the same raid over and over to wait for their chance/turn to receive the loot, which is the main thing that kept me from raiding in other games.  I like to do group instances but not the same instance over and over hoping each time It'll be the last.

 I think it comes, partly, from players who do nothing and still get rewards, just for showing up. The best example I can come up with is WoW's battlegrounds. Players can sit AFK for the entire match, and still get honor points to buy epic weapons and armor.

Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  Cik_Asalin

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/04
Posts: 3091

8/03/11 11:02:26 AM#40
Well-written Mike.  Certainly Raiding has always been an activity for the hardcore, more-so generally for those that have uninterrupted hours to sit dormant in a chair; certainly an unrealistic game-play entertainment expectation.
 
 
And if Bioware picks-up on Warhammers mechanic, though in a simple and uncomplicated way, then though there is nothing new here, its’ implementation is one-step closer to out-of-touch developers getting more in-touch with reality.
 
 
So, I have no hard feelings about individual loot bags, as it makes sense and as mentioned, Warhammer mechanics did the same thing, but with quality based on contribution in open-world PQ’s. 
 
 
Perhaps the Warhammer mechanic is a bit of a different animal since that was based on open-world PQ’s in-which many players could run-up on at various stages.  But applying the concept to a 4-main raid doesn’t appear to be a bad one, though at the same time, I don’t think that Bioware can justify rewards scaling with contribution, since every player on that 4-player instanced team has to contribute cooperatively to accomplish the goal. So in the SW:TOR case, I’d think that just random, yet personal, class-specific chest-drops can work, particularly if Biware doesn’t try to muddy the water based on some weird form of contribution calculation.
 
 
So in this case, I will concede that I wouldn’t consider it welfare or charity, but better game-play mechanics to reward the participants fairly that accomplished something challenging as a team, as long as its’ not an exorbitant reward for just having the “time” to run a 1-hour Raid.
 
Now mix-in rare and random drops, player-crafted gear, contributing to the massively-multiplayer quotent of a community-centric player-base, and all of which that can be as competitive in form and function from something that is attained from an npc, and now we're talking.
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