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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » The alarming trend of micro-transactions and now real money auctions

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118 posts found
  tiapheres

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/09
Posts: 74

8/02/11 10:35:12 AM#21

The involvement of RMT in AAA MMOs is to cut down on the RMT business. Eve does this but behind the scenes to undercut RMTers so they are not profitable outside thier system which really helps players who cant afford a sub to play the game by working for thier sub ingame and buying a "sub" off another player who bought it to sell for in game money or items.

Lets wait to see how Activision-Blizzard handles this RMT device before we cast judgement.

Fatetaker Voidwalker
Linkshell founder of Shi Ryu of Aegis & Figaro
Leader of the Bad Wolves Multi Game Community

  Ruinal

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/08
Posts: 196

8/02/11 10:39:26 AM#22

Real Money auction were always there. Right from UO. People used and abused every bug there is make money in every mmo since and if they couldn't do that 'succesfully' they farmed and botted. To think this is something new is a bit naive. I've argued before that CCP's plex system is rmt, but the fantards kept insisting that converting cash into isk (which at the end of the day is what plex does) doesn't provide any advantage for the people doing that. I believe EQ2 has/had servers which allowed rmt on them, but haven't heard anything about that in a long while.

Is what Diablo 3 proposing to do a bad thing? Lets put it this way, it was going to happen anyway, with or without Blizzard's permission. This way, Blizz benefits and gamers benefit from being less likely to get screwed over. If people don't like it, they do not need to use it. And anyone with thoughts of earning any kind of living from it are seriously deluded ;)

  Sulaa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/13/11
Posts: 905

8/02/11 10:48:24 AM#23
Originally posted by Ruinal

I've argued before that CCP's plex system is rmt, but the fantards kept insisting that converting cash into isk (which at the end of the day is what plex does) doesn't provide any advantage for the people doing that. I believe EQ2 has/had servers which allowed rmt on them, but haven't heard anything about that in a long while.

 

I don't agree with most of what you said. Especially with beign ok with Blizzard AH , but with above cited I agree.

PLEX in Eve is buying gold for money simple as that, and it is damn obvious it provide advantage.

That is main reason I have not subbed Eve and I was considering it after I left Lotro not so long ago. One of main reason I left Lotro aside of game changes was item shop as well.

 

For complainers about RMT/ F2P as long as you only whine but still buy/play games that use that whining on forums is incredibly pointless.  Game companies don't care anymore if you're satisfied or not , they care if you spent money on their product or not.

Whining / asking / threating and at same time paying for their product(s) would surely make me laugh hard if I were working in said company.

If you think that your not buying alone won't change a thing becasue millions others will buy , as long as you think like that trend will not slow down , stop or reverse.

  Neverdyne

Novice Member

Joined: 4/21/08
Posts: 168

8/02/11 10:52:40 AM#24

Just to clarify, the CE shop in SWTOR will sell stuff for in-game currency, not real money.

  Ceridith

Novice Member

Joined: 11/24/09
Posts: 3001

The more you hype an upcoming game in your mind, the more it will fail to meet your expectations.

8/02/11 10:56:26 AM#25

The gaming industry is being sunk under the weight of corporate pursuit of profit, with no regard to the impact of the quality of the games they're doing it to.

The perception that this move in any way cuts down on gold selling or RMT is complete nonsense. It's rather, in fact, sanctioning RMT and gold selling. So rather than trying to preserve to spirit of the game by keeping RMT out of it, Blizzard is instead turning around and allowing it so long as they get a cut of the action. It's quite literally the equivilant of a government suddenly deciding narcotics are no longer a illegal, and allowing sales of them so long as they got a cut of it.

There is a deeper problem behind this whole issue that, no matter what your stance on RMT is, is potentially very bad for everyone. Previously Blizzard fought against RMT and claimed it against the EULA and expressly denoted that accounts and their contents are property of Blizzard, not the players. Now however, Blizzard is legitimizing the real world value and even assigning ownership of virtual items through the fact that players can sell what they acquire for real money.

The true irony of all of this is that Blizzard is very likely shooting themselves in the foot, but not why most people think. Legitimizing real world value and ownership to players opens up Blizzard to several legal issues. First is that if a server glitch causes a player's item to dissapear, they're potentially monetarilly liable. Not only that but real world value means that players are generating real world value when they play, which can translate into additional income if said items are sold... hope the IRS doesn't catch wind of this (and they will). Then there's also the fact that the game may violate certain gaming (gambling/contest) laws for the fact that the loot drops are random but have real world value, which could cause the game to be subject to these laws.

All in all, it's a big old can of worms. Whether you like RMT or hate it, this decision is going to cause a big mess for the entire industry... all because Activision-Blizzard can't keep their hand out of the cookie jar.

  Leoghan

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/03
Posts: 611

8/02/11 10:56:43 AM#26
Originally posted by Neverdyne

Just to clarify, the CE shop in SWTOR will sell stuff for in-game currency, not real money.

Just to play devils advocate here, but isn't the CE shop restricted to people who bought the CE? People who paid $150 for the game? So haven't they already used real currenct to access it? 

  Agnostic42

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/19/04
Posts: 346

8/02/11 11:08:51 AM#27

I would imagine them announcing the Real Money Auction House is just the tip of the iceberg per se. I would imagine if they have a cash auction house then they would have other ways of cash affecting the game. They are probably going to go full Entropia Universe with it and make it REALLY HARD to get in game currency and offer their money at a straight conversion based off the U.S. Dollar like in EU's 10 PED = 1 US Dollar.

It's a pretty standar Public Relation and advertising ployl, if you are going to release something that will change the industry so dramatically they will announce the smallest item on the list, Real Cash Auction House. They let the pot simmer and eventually the publics anger turns to acceptance. Then they announce the next thing, micro transactions based real world currency making Blizzard have it's own RL currency by effect.

Then they announce the entire thing about 2 weeks before they release the game to the public with an attitude like "You knew it was coming, you've slowly accepted it, now buy it or don't, but all your friends will be buying it and you can make some money."

It will make it a not kid friendly game because they will not be able to spend the amount of money it takes to start out like in Entropia which has virtually no players younger than 16 and without jobs. The kids log on, discover the game isn't really free, try to quickly farm something with delusions of granduer and in a frustrated huff log off never to be seen from again.

 

I'm not against this model or this buisiness practice because, frankly, it works.

 

But who knows, I could be wrong. Maybe they have no intentions of making a shit ton of money off they game with continued sales as long as the game is active. :D

I mean boxed sales are great, but that's just 1 large chunk of change, Blizzard wants your money and they know how to get it.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10878

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

8/02/11 11:28:10 AM#28


Originally posted by Ceridith
The gaming industry is being sunk under the weight of corporate pursuit of profit, with no regard to the impact of the quality of the games they're doing it to.
The perception that this move in any way cuts down on gold selling or RMT is complete nonsense. It's rather, in fact, sanctioning RMT and gold selling. So rather than trying to preserve to spirit of the game by keeping RMT out of it, Blizzard is instead turning around and allowing it so long as they get a cut of the action. It's quite literally the equivilant of a government suddenly deciding narcotics are no longer a illegal, and allowing sales of them so long as they got a cut of it.
There is a deeper problem behind this whole issue that, no matter what your stance on RMT is, is potentially very bad for everyone. Previously Blizzard fought against RMT and claimed it against the EULA and expressly denoted that accounts and their contents are property of Blizzard, not the players. Now however, Blizzard is legitimizing the real world value and even assigning ownership of virtual items through the fact that players can sell what they acquire for real money.
The true irony of all of this is that Blizzard is very likely shooting themselves in the foot, but not why most people think. Legitimizing real world value and ownership to players opens up Blizzard to several legal issues. First is that if a server glitch causes a player's item to dissapear, they're potentially monetarilly liable. Not only that but real world value means that players are generating real world value when they play, which can translate into additional income if said items are sold... hope the IRS doesn't catch wind of this (and they will). Then there's also the fact that the game may violate certain gaming (gambling/contest) laws for the fact that the loot drops are random but have real world value, which could cause the game to be subject to these laws.
All in all, it's a big old can of worms. Whether you like RMT or hate it, this decision is going to cause a big mess for the entire industry... all because Activision-Blizzard can't keep their hand out of the cookie jar.



Players will still not own any of the items they sell in the auction house. They will have a set of rights associated with the item. For instance, they can't make a real world copy of the item and sell it at a profit, because they don't own the item or the design for the item. If Blizzard deletes them, the player has not lost anything, because they never owned anything. It'll be part of the Eula if you have enough patience to read it.

Income derived from games is 100% the responsibility of the person making the money. That's not Blizzard's job to keep up with. I think it's a lot more likely that if there are enough transactions and enough money changing hands that the government will decide that it should be taxed. Not the virtual items themselves, because ownership of the items never changes from Blizzard, but the transactions themselves. Even that is unlikely though, since the government will be taxing the income Blizzard derives from these transactions.

I had not thought about the gambling aspect of the this. It is very much like rolling the dice and has even been called gambling, but it's not gambling. Blizzard isn't paying anything out to anyone. Think of it like this. I can go out in my yard with a metal detector and I might find an old nail, or I might find a gold coin worth a million dollars and sell it to someone. That's not gambling.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  zaxxon23

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/06
Posts: 1285

8/02/11 11:33:32 AM#29

most...awesome...thing....EVA!

 

I've been saying it for years.  A player to player dev controlled real money auction house is the future.  Did anyone listen?  NOPE!  Well, not one except for the people who matter....Blizzard.

 

After all the years of enduring the anti-rmt trolls, in your freakin' face!

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10878

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

8/02/11 11:54:50 AM#30


Originally posted by zaxxon23
most...awesome...thing....EVA!
 
I've been saying it for years.  A player to player dev controlled real money auction house is the future.  Did anyone listen?  NOPE!  Well, not one except for the people who matter....Blizzard.
 
After all the years of enduring the anti-rmt trolls, in your freakin' face!



Ditto, except I only thought of it a day or so before Blizzard announced their Auction House. I think it's just one of those things that was inevitable. Players want to spend money in their games. I'm not totally sure why, but they are. Buying stuff from other players instead of cash shops or 'gold sellers' just makes it much more palatable (imo).

I'm wondering how long it'll be before F2P mmorpg pick up on this. I'm thinking a zombie Farmville with a real money auction house. I also wonder how long it'll take for an organized group of criminals makes a game for the purpose of collecting credit card numbers. On Facebook first, of course.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Ruinal

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/08
Posts: 196

8/02/11 12:00:48 PM#31
Originally posted by Ceridith

 It's quite literally the equivilant of a government suddenly deciding narcotics are no longer a illegal, and allowing sales of them so long as they got a cut of it.

Funnily enough there are a *lot* of people who think governments should do exactly that, rather than wage a futile 'war on drugs'. Just because no government has ever tried that approach doesn't mean it wouldn't or cannot work. My analogy, druggy is going to get their fix, whether legally or illegally.

  Ruinal

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/08
Posts: 196

8/02/11 12:05:58 PM#32
Originally posted by lizardbones

I'm wondering how long it'll be before F2P mmorpg pick up on this. I'm thinking a zombie Farmville with a real money auction house. I also wonder how long it'll take for an organized group of criminals makes a game for the purpose of collecting credit card numbers. On Facebook first, of course.

 

I've always suspected the couple of chinese mmo's I've played had a large part in my email getting hacked as I'd be quite careful about looking after my security. Not to say they were criminals per say, but it wouldn't have surprised me if my details had been sold on by a corrupt employee. Certainly no shortage of dodgy shite floating around Facebook already ;)

  User Deleted
8/02/11 12:07:56 PM#33
Originally posted by Ruinal
Originally posted by Ceridith

 It's quite literally the equivilant of a government suddenly deciding narcotics are no longer a illegal, and allowing sales of them so long as they got a cut of it.

Funnily enough there are a *lot* of people who think governments should do exactly that, rather than wage a futile 'war on drugs'. Just because no government has ever tried that approach doesn't mean it wouldn't or cannot work. My analogy, druggy is going to get their fix, whether legally or illegally.

Dutch law allows people to use soft drugs at their own risk.  You can go into a coffee shop, buy some hallucinogenic mushrooms and cannabis without going to jail.

Dunno how well it works for them. 

 

  alkarionlog

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/09
Posts: 1048

8/02/11 12:14:01 PM#34
Originally posted by Revivial
Originally posted by Ruinal
Originally posted by Ceridith

 It's quite literally the equivilant of a government suddenly deciding narcotics are no longer a illegal, and allowing sales of them so long as they got a cut of it.

Funnily enough there are a *lot* of people who think governments should do exactly that, rather than wage a futile 'war on drugs'. Just because no government has ever tried that approach doesn't mean it wouldn't or cannot work. My analogy, druggy is going to get their fix, whether legally or illegally.

Dutch law allows people to use soft drugs at their own risk.  You can go into a coffee shop, buy some hallucinogenic mushrooms and cannabis without going to jail.

Dunno how well it works for them. 

 

 

only reason I can see a goverment permit drugs is to tax the drugs so they can have a share of it, no other reason

FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.

  jinxxed0

Novice Member

Joined: 4/22/06
Posts: 846

8/02/11 12:19:21 PM#35

You children need to get out of that state of mind that everyone has to play the same way as you do. You spend time or you spend money. Its that simple of a concept. One guy that spends hours getting a super sword and a guy that spends 10 bucks getting a super sword and not different from each other.

 

It just doesn't matter how someone gets something in videogame. Hell, time is much more valuable that money, because you can always get more money, but you can never get back that time. So its an option you and everyone else are given. Your arguments would be valid if people could buy stuff than you could ever earn, but thats simply not the case. I get it, you either dont have money and dont see the fun in buying stuff when you can earn it. Thats fine for you. But maybe other people dont see the point in spending months of their time getting something that doesn't even exist. Earning something in a videogame doesn't make you a better person, it contributes nothing in the real world and no one is going to impressed with you. The same applies for buying that same something.

 

If 100 people bought a set of armor from a cash shop, and a 100 people went out and earned that set of armor, how does one affect your gameplay over the other. It doesn't magically prevent you from earning it. The problem is that so many people have the mentally that people shouldnt be able to easily get something that they have to spend time getting. Thats how the real world works and the last time i checked these videogames exist in the world because we're able to play them. I get the argument, "everyone should be equal and blah blah blah" but you are equal. Everyone has the chance to earn stuff and buy it.

  Leoghan

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/03
Posts: 611

8/02/11 12:19:50 PM#36
Originally posted by alkarionlog
Originally posted by Revivial
Originally posted by Ruinal
Originally posted by Ceridith

 It's quite literally the equivilant of a government suddenly deciding narcotics are no longer a illegal, and allowing sales of them so long as they got a cut of it.

Funnily enough there are a *lot* of people who think governments should do exactly that, rather than wage a futile 'war on drugs'. Just because no government has ever tried that approach doesn't mean it wouldn't or cannot work. My analogy, druggy is going to get their fix, whether legally or illegally.

Dutch law allows people to use soft drugs at their own risk.  You can go into a coffee shop, buy some hallucinogenic mushrooms and cannabis without going to jail.

Dunno how well it works for them. 

 

 

only reason I can see a goverment permit drugs is to tax the drugs so they can have a share of it, no other reason

Yeah because it doesn't cost goverments millions or billions to try and fight it and there would be no possible benefit to regulating it rather than fighting it *rolls eyes*. Nor could there be a benefit to regulating the quality of drugs available to drug users to prevent numerous death and other health issues caused by drugs that are of a poor quality or intentionally laced with other chemicals. 

If you look at alcohol as the drug that it is you'll see that goverments have long since learned that regulation of alcohol is safer and more cost effiecient than trying to keep it illegal. I say all of this as someone who drinks and has no interest in other drugs. 

  BizkitNL

Old School

Joined: 12/29/02
Posts: 2310

"Free to play, pay to win""

8/02/11 12:24:05 PM#37
Originally posted by alkarionlog
Originally posted by Revivial
Originally posted by Ruinal
Originally posted by Ceridith

 It's quite literally the equivilant of a government suddenly deciding narcotics are no longer a illegal, and allowing sales of them so long as they got a cut of it.

Funnily enough there are a *lot* of people who think governments should do exactly that, rather than wage a futile 'war on drugs'. Just because no government has ever tried that approach doesn't mean it wouldn't or cannot work. My analogy, druggy is going to get their fix, whether legally or illegally.

Dutch law allows people to use soft drugs at their own risk.  You can go into a coffee shop, buy some hallucinogenic mushrooms and cannabis without going to jail.

Dunno how well it works for them. 

 

 

only reason I can see a goverment permit drugs is to tax the drugs so they can have a share of it, no other reason

You're missing the point:

Why would I illegally obtain my soft drugs from that guy at the corner (and risk getting arrested), when I can get it legally from the local coffeeshop?

It's quite simple. Try to use your head a bit more.

 

EDIT: The poster above explains it quite well (and then some).

Feel like trying Planetside 2? Get a headstart with the starter kit!

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10878

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

8/02/11 12:24:32 PM#38


Originally posted by alkarionlog


Originally posted by Revivial


Originally posted by Ruinal



Originally posted by Ceridith


 It's quite literally the equivilant of a government suddenly deciding narcotics are no longer a illegal, and allowing sales of them so long as they got a cut of it.


Funnily enough there are a *lot* of people who think governments should do exactly that, rather than wage a futile 'war on drugs'. Just because no government has ever tried that approach doesn't mean it wouldn't or cannot work. My analogy, druggy is going to get their fix, whether legally or illegally.


Dutch law allows people to use soft drugs at their own risk.  You can go into a coffee shop, buy some hallucinogenic mushrooms and cannabis without going to jail.
Dunno how well it works for them. 
 


 
only reason I can see a goverment permit drugs is to tax the drugs so they can have a share of it, no other reason



It couldn't possibly be that using the criminal justice system to curb drug usage (not distribution) creates more problems than it solves? It's expensive, doesn't stop people from using drugs and the non-violent people you jail for drug possession become better, more violent criminals.

The current solutions to 'gold farmers' have limited success, and really just creates a better breed of 'gold farmer'. Make the 1,000 or so 'gold farmer' businesses compete with millions of players, and the millions of players will win.

But that's not why Blizzard is doing this. They are doing this because they will be able to derive income from a game that normally wouldn't generate income. Moreover, they'll do it by giving the majority of players what they want.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Requiamer

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 2054

8/02/11 12:47:05 PM#39
Originally posted by UnleadedRev

When Free to Play Games first arrived, they were viewed as either the "brand of failure" for a previously subscription based MMORPG. However, now that triple AAA titles that were no where close to failing have gone F2P such as LOTRO and AoC, and seem to be thriving at least in the case of LOTRO, you can now look at AoC with its PvP armor and weapons you can buy and say hhhhmmmm.

We just saw how EVE was in upheaval over speculation and gray area evidence of that game going not only micro-transactions but also game affecting items. All of which caused riot conditions across EVE and now are just for vanity items.

First LOTRO with MT stat tomes, then AoC with MT weapons and armor, then the specter of EVE with MT spaceships...all game effecting items.

A very subtle excalation of MT items that affect gameplay...

Also, SWTORs CE store that no one is 100% sure what it sells...probably because Bioware is gauging player reaction...yeah yeah they said only vanity items and stuff you can get anyway in game...DUH! So then thats the same as AoC with its blue and purple PvP armor and weapons.

For existing games like AoC all the players that put in the hard work to gain such items are now shaking their heads...yeah even though they have much better than even the store items now, its still 50% of the work already being done for new players, which older players earned they old fashion way. The argument has been made that due to DESIGN FLAWs AoC alienated new players by putting them behind a gear curve that would take forever to bring them on par and competitive, i.e. you must lose 30,000 mini games to earn your PvP 5 gear LOL!

Everything is changed NOW that Blizzard is announcing a real money auction house in Diablo....and in a non-MMO.

Whats the significance you ask? Well, as you can tell by all the WoW clones....where Blizzard goes the rest of the industry goes...

Expect many non-MMO games to go with real money auction houses. Just as MT stores make games more money I am sure there will be a buyer/seller fee for blizzard with the D III auction house as well.

Business is business....these games dont provide a public service, they are products designed to make money for the publishers beyond just selling a game box. In some cases keeps games alive that have budget problems, etc. Unfortunately, it seems Devs and publishers have joined the dreaded "I want it now" generation of gamers who want to cut to the chase and not earn their gear. Sounds like real life too in some cases..wheres my job, wheres my diploma, wheres my house and car.

Hey man..you need to EARN those things.

Blizzard is making a bad move, soon they will understand that a strong IP worth all the greediness in the world, i'm talking monetary wise right.

  Ruinal

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/08
Posts: 196

8/02/11 12:52:08 PM#40

I disagree. I think Diablo 3 will be a hit the likes of which we've not seen before. Blizz will have done their market research and know their customers inside out. I think there will be enough people *wanting* this that the few haters will be irrelevant. Personally, I don't care either way, and if someone has spent $200+ on some item, more fool them.

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