Originally posted by dinams

Originally posted by Divion

1. I keep hearing people saw "Big deal if SWTOR fails, we have GW2".

- First off thats crap, GW isn't an MMORPG to begin with, it's an RPG with online elements, unless they are changing that fact in GW2, i ain't buy that.

- 2nd off, the players of the GW franchise are not the -bulk- of the MMO consumer base, they are not even an MMO consumer, again, i ain't buying it.

 

2. If not SWTOR then what? It will always be the same -- " hype that game, it fails, hype this game it fails", rinse repeat.. the industry will degrade into superficial titles that become money sinks for both consumer, and industry, open your eyes Vet MMO'ers are already quitting the genre in flocks for so many this is the last chance.

You killed all the credibility you had...

oh and be ready for the air strike, according to SW:TOR fans this site is in majority following GW2

And who you are to quanity my, or anyone's crediablity? You provide nothing to back up your silly statements.

Maybe most of the MMORPG users do follow GW2, -BUT- majority of MMORPG players DO NOT USE MMORPG.COM

- Lawyered.

Originally posted by Divion

1. I keep hearing people saw "Big deal if SWTOR fails, we have GW2".

- First off thats crap, GW isn't an MMORPG to begin with, it's an RPG with online elements, unless they are changing that fact in GW2, i ain't buy that.

- 2nd off, the players of the GW franchise are not the -bulk- of the MMO consumer base, they are not even an MMO consumer, again, i ain't buying it.

 

Err,you need to do some researching dude,its sounds like you've been living in a cave.

 

2. If not SWTOR then what? It will always be the same -- " hype that game, it fails, hype this game it fails", rinse repeat.. the industry will degrade into superficial titles that become money sinks for both consumer, and industry, open your eyes Vet MMO'ers are already quitting the genre in flocks for so many this is the last chance.

 

 

Originally posted by Divion

I’m not sure if this issue has been addressed, so I’m a throw a line into this lake of thought, and see what it reels in.

 

On a wide-spread acceptance level, WoW is the only real MMO universally accepted by the bulk of the industry, whether it be consumers, (Casual/Hardcore, PvP/PvE), Critics, Elitists, Haters, Fanboys, ect –

 

It has become the standard, to many’s dismay – it brought the genre out of a closet that only the most revered of us nerds knew of, to a game that even the most prominent members of society par-take in endless hours of play.

 

Has anyone asked the really, really.. really… hard question?

 

What if that was a fluke?

 

I have been fan of this genre longer then most, my first MMO being EQ back in the last 90s.

 

I was hyped for WoW mostly for one reason, I played the Warcraft IP RTS games and the notion of being the unit on the ground that I once controlled hundreds of, and visiting places I wage an epic war about was intriguing, so I followed the game’s development closely – I remember reading the articles, the reviews, the critics, the haters, the flamers, the fans, the testers, the developers, I soaked it all in like a sponge.. I was hyped.

 

The game was an epic success…

 

Since then there has only been one game to show the same pre-launch pattern, SWTORO, what I’ve been reading, from hype (whether it be empty or legit), to those who have played it and shared their thoughts, reviews, everything it reminds be of the atmosphere that existed prior to WoWs launch. It makes me giddy, hopeful, and most of all concerned for the future of the MMORPG as a Genre.

 

This game has all the right conditions for a perfect MMO Storm (Like WoW before it), the recipe matches… everything.. the hype, the potential, even what issues the haters are trolling about.. it’s all in the right spot for a success…so…WHAT IF IT FAILS TOO?

 

Then that’s it… I think that developers are going to abandon the MMORPG, maybe not all at once or in a whole, but.. lets face a few facts :

 

Recipe for Success (MMORPG)

 

Take 1 well established franchise (Warcraft, Star Wars) \\ Star Wars being the most famous of IPs in the civilized markets

Add marketable game design marinated with superfluous hype, and hate balance.

Add a reputable gaming company (Blizzard, BioWare), BioWare being arguably one of the best RPG producing company.

Mix in a large production, and marketing budget ( 63M for WoW \\ 80M [Maybe more?])

Add all the ingredients, and bake til the market is desperately begging for a decent MMO.

Serve at a reasonable price, best kept updated – Makes 1-20 million servings.

 

So if the recipe for success produces failure, then one must conclude that the MMORPG as a dish is no longer a dish people want to eat….

 

This is the last chance for the MMORPG to prove that WoW wasn’t a fluke, that the market is still a viable mechanism in today’s entertainment industry, we are dangerously close to becoming a closent genre again, let’s not become the Sim Genre of the next millennium.

sigh its not going to fail >< just wait until it releases try it if you dont like it toss it simple......i am not judging if the game fails or not just let it breath and see how it does in time we will see.. till then play the game enjoy it if you like it if not toss it :P

Geez. Understand this:

1. ToR is just another mmorpg. It isn't revolutionary, many are coming to the understanding that it isn't going to be (I'm not sure Bioware was even trying to) so it fits in the same category of all mmos before it.

2. If ToR fails, players will move on, other companies will see this as a massive opportunity to attempt to do things right. It is the way it has been for many titles that were claimed to be "wow killers."

3. There are other mmos, I'm considering playing like GW2 and Tera and I'm still excited about this game as well. Many feel the same way. Tor doesn't demand that much power and I doubt any mmo will.

Originally posted by Divion

1. I keep hearing people saw "Big deal if SWTOR fails, we have GW2".

- First off thats crap, GW isn't an MMORPG to begin with, it's an RPG with online elements, unless they are changing that fact in GW2, i ain't buy that.

- 2nd off, the players of the GW franchise are not the -bulk- of the MMO consumer base, they are not even an MMO consumer, again, i ain't buying it.

 

2. If not SWTOR then what? It will always be the same -- " hype that game, it fails, hype this game it fails", rinse repeat.. the industry will degrade into superficial titles that become money sinks for both consumer, and industry, open your eyes Vet MMO'ers are already quitting the genre in flocks for so many this is the last chance.

Good job talking crap when you no nothing of what your talking about.  Some of the only similarities between GW1 and GW2 that we know of is lore and how many skills you can use (and even that is different by a bit).

Also, Ive played hundreds of hours of Guild Wars and I've also played thousands of hours combined of most other recent MMO's. If that doesnt make me an "MMO consumer" then I dont know what does.  I'm not sure youve heard of this concept but it goes something like this, "I can play Guild Wars and other MMOs at the same time!"  I think it has something to do with the fact that people have the ability to pay for an MMO on top of a B2P.

If SWTOR is a sucess then awesome, I'll be playing it.  If SWTOR fails then oh well, just another game that failed.  MMO's have failed and yet we continue.  The MMO genre is still young, it will survive a few flops.  Might I remind you that there have been some pretty shitty FPS, RTS, RPG, and other games and yet we still have amazing games afterwards. 

I really hate to say this because it's not there fault but the genre will die if a game does not come along and steal a crap ton of subs from wow.  Let me explain

Developers have been trying for a long time to compete with wow and there huge subs.  And for all of their efforts and money has amounted to nothing but failure.

Then they see all these NO NAME companies making tons of money off of casual facebook gamers.  Soon or later they are going to say screw it,  lets make bank on browser games!

Lol if this is the extent you have to go thru to make yourself think the game "you" are interested in is more important than it really is then more power to you.Maybe you can find a good bridge salesman too while you are at it. 

sadly i must agree...this genre is dying slowly but shurly....there is nothign new to "new" mmo's everythign is based on one mm WoW...sadly...SW and god forbid GW2(looks horrible in my view) are the MMO'S last hope.

That or the MMORPG genra must be redone anew...not cloed and made compleatly 100% fresh...since almost EVERY mmo out there is based off of the WoW setup its just like playing wow with a diffrent mask on.

For me this genra has died about 5 months ago...a lil while after cata was a huge dissapointment...since then NOTHING has perked my intrest and thus have not played any since....untill i heard about the realease of SW im only awaiting two games...the new Starcraft expansion and Diablo 3...hop[e blizz dont mess it up liek they did with WoW...

all said n done there is only one thing that needs to be done to save the MMO world....

MAKE IT A NEW 100% TOTALLY FRESH EXPERIENCE!

Wich sadly will never happen....i seek a game that has the PvP of Darkfall the questing of WoW and the gathering of Darkfall and crafting of WoW, also most important a SUPERIOR development team and company....liek combine Blizz with Belthasa and the makers of Darkfall...

I have actually thought this question to myself also.

The way I see it, if the game fails then MMO developers will start looking for a new way to gather attention.

I don't see as it as an end to the genre, but as a new beginning of something else.

Not saying that it will fail, because I strongly believe it wont. I also believe that IF it does, future devs will be aware of this and search for more options.

Do you know what this new way I believe is...

Social Networking.

Because you sure as hell won't get a complete sandbox game, thats for sure.

Nope sorry..If this game fails then I will be sad..because all the arrogant @holes will be playing Sw:tor..and leave us awesome GW2 fans alone...I hope this game will take those people so they can make that community as toxic as they have made other games...On the other hand..I hope pve/social players don't play this game seeing as GW2 Will be AMAZING!!! :) Oh..also thanks for the posionous pvp players that spam our gw2 forums of how the game will suck...I can tell u here and now that your game will be a future epic fail :) Anyway!---If this game fails it will not make the mmorpg fail..it will make it STRONGER!

May Technology guide you through Tyria! Asura's rule..or already rule, you just dont know it! Brain, not brawn, will change the world. :)

Originally posted by i_own_u

I have actually thought this question to myself also.

The way I see it, if the game fails then MMO developers will start looking for a new way to gather attention.

I don't see as it as an end to the genre, but as a new beginning of something else.

Not saying that it will fail, because I strongly believe it wont. I also believe that IF it does, future devs will be aware of this and search for more options.

Do you know what this new way I believe is...

Social Networking.

Because you sure as hell won't get a complete sandbox game, thats for sure.

Thats what i'm saying.

I don't think it be the full end of a genre...

Right now becuase of what WoW accomplished --- MMORPGS are the new gold rush of gaming entertainment, everyone wants a slice of it..

But if it turns out that gold that WoW found was just a fluke.. companies will cut back funding for future projects, or development and start looking towards more secure genres.

MMORPGS will never fully die, there is capital to be made, but what i'm saying is... the genre is quickily running into the ground in the last few years, if something doesn't change it's gonna become a neglected genre like it was Prior to WoW...

All this stated in my OP, but some people must have missed that.

TOR wont fail but if it is your last hope then you may already be doomed, this game isnt bringing us much that we have not seen before but it will still be a solid and fun game, hey its made by bioware! ;)

MMORPGs has lost its place years ago, there's too many generic games now and a few "different" ones that just don't last long. I still go back to City of Heroes because it's the last good MMO game I've played.

So if TOR fails, oh well, it would be another title regardless me being a huge Star Wars fan.

Originally posted by lol0010

Nope sorry..If this game fails then I will be sad..because all the arrogant @holes will be playing Sw:tor..and leave us awesome GW2 fans alone...I hope this game will take those people so they can make that community as toxic as they have made other games...On the other hand..I hope pve/social players don't play this game seeing as GW2 Will be AMAZING!!! :) Oh..also thanks for the posionous pvp players that spam our gw2 forums of how the game will suck...I can tell u here and now that your game will be a future epic fail :) Anyway!---If this game fails it will not make the mmorpg fail..it will make it STRONGER!

 

May Technology guide you through Tyria! Asura's rule..or already rule, you just dont know it! Brain, not brawn, will change the world. :)

How?

This is BioWare's first run into the MMORPG market.. atleast 80 mil in...

If it fails and they lose money to you honestily think they will try again? or stick to markets that have had success in? The latter me thinks.

I'm not sure i'm understanding why people can't grasp the simple notion of Capitialism..

How many companies are willing to risk losing millions...or companies that have had titles fail, are willing to risk that again?

How many Real Time World's need to go Bankrupt for companies to cut back MMORPG RnD funding?

Originally posted by Divion

1. I keep hearing people saw "Big deal if SWTOR fails, we have GW2".

- First off thats crap, GW isn't an MMORPG to begin with, it's an RPG with online elements, unless they are changing that fact in GW2, i ain't buy that.

- 2nd off, the players of the GW franchise are not the -bulk- of the MMO consumer base, they are not even an MMO consumer, again, i ain't buying it.

 

2. If not SWTOR then what? It will always be the same -- " hype that game, it fails, hype this game it fails", rinse repeat.. the industry will degrade into superficial titles that become money sinks for both consumer, and industry, open your eyes Vet MMO'ers are already quitting the genre in flocks for so many this is the last chance.

It's a valid question, but unfortunately here is where you kind of screwed up the conversation :( 

So, I think you should stop thinking about the question alltoghether and go read up on GW2. Its obvious you don't know anything about it by your comments. I think you should have read up on GW2 as soon as you saw all the "Big deal if SWTOR fails, we have GW2" comments. They are there for a reason ;)

Go read up and come back to us with a better idea of why SWTOR is not our last hope :)

Heard the same thing with the final fanitsy BS and how it was going to be the alpha of Omega and it is the MMORPG's biggest turd, we are stilll her wiating for "that game" and will until....WoW turns out the lights.

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by Divion

1. I keep hearing people saw "Big deal if SWTOR fails, we have GW2".

- First off thats crap, GW isn't an MMORPG to begin with, it's an RPG with online elements, unless they are changing that fact in GW2, i ain't buy that.

- 2nd off, the players of the GW franchise are not the -bulk- of the MMO consumer base, they are not even an MMO consumer, again, i ain't buying it.

 

2. If not SWTOR then what? It will always be the same -- " hype that game, it fails, hype this game it fails", rinse repeat.. the industry will degrade into superficial titles that become money sinks for both consumer, and industry, open your eyes Vet MMO'ers are already quitting the genre in flocks for so many this is the last chance.

It's a valid question, but unfortunately here is where you kind of screwed up the conversation :( 

So, I think you should stop thinking about the question alltoghether and go read up on GW2. Its obvious you don't know anything about it by your comments. I think you should have read up on GW2 as soon as you saw all the "Big deal if SWTOR fails, we have GW2" comments. They are there for a reason ;)

Go read up and come back to us with a better idea of why SWTOR is not our last hope :)

^ this

GW2 is where the MMO genre is taking its first big step towards change..

SWTOR is going to be a good game,but its going to be your run of the mill quest grind style MMO with voice acting instead of text,which isnt enough of a difference imo.The main selling points for TOR are the Star Wars IP,Voice Acting,and maybe it being Biowares 1st MMO,other than that it'll be run of the mill.

Alot of people realize this,alot of people are also turned away by it.

Originally posted by i_own_u

I have actually thought this question to myself also.

The way I see it, if the game fails then MMO developers will start looking for a new way to gather attention.

I don't see as it as an end to the genre, but as a new beginning of something else.

Not saying that it will fail, because I strongly believe it wont. I also believe that IF it does, future devs will be aware of this and search for more options.

Do you know what this new way I believe is...

Social Networking.

Because you sure as hell won't get a complete sandbox game, thats for sure.

Well first off unless SWTOR actually closes down before Bioware makes their money back, it won't fail. Even totally shit games such as SWG and Warhammer online managed to scrape by long after they should have died. So I really see no way SWTOR could not turn a profit. Now will its success skyrocket up to Wow like numbers? Again, seriously doubtful.

But no matter what happens, this game has been in development for several years, all of the MMOs that will come out after in the next couple of years have already been in development for some time so will not be much affected positively or negatively by this one games performance.

As to I-own_u's comment about social networking games, that shift has started already, gaming companies that tried to get in on the wow gravy train are finally starting to learn the hard lesson that an MMO is a big big responsibility, where you can't cut corners (DCUO, CRYPTIC) and for most companies, not anywhere near the best or fastest investment (do a google search for the head of lego online's semi melt down about how tough the mmo industry is). So they are turning to the much easier browser and mobile gaming industry.

Originally posted by Divion

1. I keep hearing people saw "Big deal if SWTOR fails, we have GW2".

- First off thats crap, GW isn't an MMORPG to begin with, it's an RPG with online elements, unless they are changing that fact in GW2, i ain't buy that.

Everytime I say this, a kitten should be given a home, Guild Wars 2 is a persisent online game, fully online, as online as WoW and SWTOR and other MMOG.

Source: 

http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/game-faq/#five

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35BPhT-KI1E&hd=1

- 2nd off, the players of the GW franchise are not the -bulk- of the MMO consumer base, they are not even an MMO consumer, again, i ain't buying it.

 

2. If not SWTOR then what? It will always be the same -- " hype that game, it fails, hype this game it fails", rinse repeat.. the industry will degrade into superficial titles that become money sinks for both consumer, and industry, open your eyes Vet MMO'ers are already quitting the genre in flocks for so many this is the last chance.

Thats because people are imagining the game based on their imagination, no game will ever match a human's imagination, where you can create anything on the go, a game can never be able to keep up with that.

I think people need to keep their expectation in check, no game will satisify that great game in their head.

Originally posted by Divion

 

I'm not sure i'm understanding why people can't grasp the simple notion of Capitialism..

I'm not sure I am understanding why you can't grasp that the simple notion that SWTOR is not the future of mmo's, if it succeeds all the more power to it, if it fails it fails and everything else everywhere else continues on as it always has and always will.You seem to like to paint pictures of stock market crashes and debt ceiling debates. 

How many companies are willing to risk losing millions...or companies that have had titles fail, are willing to risk that again?

 Also seem to be painting a picture here with this that applies to Bioware as if Bioware chooses not to continue in the mmo market if SWTOR doesnt succeed that the market will fail and yet seem to forget the many companies out that are still there doing and planning on future titles even Blizzard itself with its Titan project.

How many Real Time World's need to go Bankrupt for companies to cut back MMORPG RnD funding?

As you said before about Guild Wars not qualifying as an mmo this title from Real Time Worlds was even less of one if at all.